Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Fireball07

Slobbery wrote: »

Stephen Bennett was 15 at the time, in fairness I think that Stephens Hip problems were an issue from a very young age, but of course playing all those games have to be a contributing factor

It's almost impossible for us to definitively say whether players like that have injury problems because they've been over-played at a young age... but it certainly can't help. Some players are just injury-prone and will pick up those injuries whether they play a lot or play a little, but I do feel that there is a lot of ignorance among the general community about these kind of issues, I certainly don't really know what I'm talking about. But what I will say is that I have seen a lot of very talented hurlers in my own area who would have played at lots of age grades at underage level, including county, and many of them are half-crippled now. And while I don't have any sort of medical proof, I do think playing U-16, minor, U-21 as well as training for county underage teams must have contributed.


Of course you see players who are fine too, who can manage all that playing with minimal problems, but I think it just shows that each player is different and things like fitness and strength & conditioning training should be altered for each individual player... some of the fitness training that young players do at some local clubs, possibly only at lower divisions, definitely doesn't help them.

Deise189 wrote: »

Stephens hip problems were also made worse by his running technique and the way he rotates his hips while running. I think he is or was attending a specialist to help him develop a different way of running to take some of the pressure off his hips.

And I've never heard of this before, that seems very unfortunate tbh.

archieknox

Fireball07 wrote: »

It's almost impossible for us to definitively say whether players like that have injury problems because they've been over-played at a young age... but it certainly can't help. Some players are just injury-prone and will pick up those injuries whether they play a lot or play a little, but I do feel that there is a lot of ignorance among the general community about these kind of issues, I certainly don't really know what I'm talking about. But what I will say is that I have seen a lot of very talented hurlers in my own area who would have played at lots of age grades at underage level, including county, and many of them are half-crippled now. And while I don't have any sort of medical proof, I do think playing U-16, minor, U-21 as well as training for county underage teams must have contributed.


Of course you see players who are fine too, who can manage all that playing with minimal problems, but I think it just shows that each player is different and things like fitness and strength & conditioning training should be altered for each individual player... some of the fitness training that young players do at some local clubs, possibly only at lower divisions, definitely doesn't help them.




And I've never heard of this before, that seems very unfortunate tbh.

This relates to the topic of burnout in our younger players and as you said there is a lot of ignorance towards it aswell as alot of blind eyes! We all can give examples of top club underage players having to play with as many as 7,8 or 9 different teams which is criminal. How it is dealt with is a very tricky situation and not as straight forward as people think.
As for Stephen Bennett it was great to see him Fri night training on the sideline while the game was in progress. Even though he played no part in it hopefully it won't be long before he is involved. He is a special talent,a match winner,and these type players are hard to find so leave him miss the Fitzgibbon if it means we might have him back towards the end of the league and ready for Cork in June.
It will be interesting to see the team that lines out against Clare on Sat as i would imagine it will be close enough to the starting 15 for the league opener the following weekend.

westcork blue

Jake Dillon was playing in Harty cup winning team at the age of 13, complete madness. We wonder why players are not sparking all the time....
Jake like Steven Bennett over the last few years was on 7 or 8 teams, plus Jake played with DLS footballers. Injuries are inevitable and it can kill the enthusiasm of really talented players that ultimately will shorten playing careers

hardybuck

westcork blue wrote: »

Jake Dillon was playing in Harty cup winning team at the age of 13, complete madness. We wonder why players are not sparking all the time....
Jake like Steven Bennett over the last few years was on 7 or 8 teams, plus Jake played with DLS footballers. Injuries are inevitable and it can kill the enthusiasm of really talented players that ultimately will shorten playing careers

Jake is 23 this year, he played in 2008 alright, so he would have been 16 playing Harty. You hardly expect him not to tog out with his club?

DLS as far as I'm aware held him back from the senior team for as long as it was practical. One of the years they won the senior title, probably 2008, he was ripping up the intermediate championship hitting huge scores in every game. I think they were in semi finals in both competitions, and he was brought up to the seniors and scored a few points in the semi and final, while the inters lost a tight semi final by a point or so.

I don't think the games are a huge issue. You can play a game every week no problem if you're doing appropriate training. I think the training is totally inappropriate a lot of the time. This is particularly evident when you're dealing with individual managers who are only concerned with their own team, and don't liaise with each other. This is when the underage star will get damaged.

Mountainlad

Jake Dillon will be 22 this year Hardy. When did DLS win the Harty, 2007 and 2008? If it was the latter he'd have been 14 I suppose.

Hurling man

Mountainlad wrote: »

Jake Dillon will be 22 this year Hardy. When did DLS win the Harty, 2007 and 2008? If it was the latter he'd have been 14 I suppose.

Jake played Harty cup the school year after he played tony forrestal

Mountainlad

Hurling man wrote: »

Jake played Harty cup the school year after he played tony forrestal

Would have been Tony Forristal in 2007, so I guess 2008 then. Could still have been 14 at the start of that campaign.

westcork blue

he was when on the winning team in 07/08, played as a midfielder with Eddie Barrett. He played 21's last year so I think he could have been no more than 14. Either way the point about length of time committed from a very young age across multiple professional teams (in approach and dedication) and subsequent burnout both physically and mentally holds. We, because of pick, place huge burdens on the likes of Jake, Steven Bennett, Flynn in his day, Ken etc, and their ability to carry teams at a young age is in my opinion abused and has huge consequences for them in later years.

westcork blue

he was on the winning team in 07/08, played as a midfielder with Eddie Barrett. He played 21's last year so I think he could have been no more than 14. Either way the point about length of time committed from a very young age across multiple professional teams (in approach and dedication) and subsequent burnout both physically and mentally holds. We, because of pick, place huge burdens on the likes of Jake, Steven Bennett, Flynn in his day, Ken etc, and their ability to carry teams at a young age is in my opinion abused and has huge consequences for them in later years.

brickeyvalley

Derek Lyons (Ballyduff Lower) manager, Sean Cullinane, Ray Murphy, Wayne Power and Alan Dempsey are the Hurling minor selectors/coaches.

brickeyvalley

Sean Lyons (Ballyduff Lower) manager, Sean Cullinane, Ray Murphy, Wayne Power and Alan Dempsey are the Hurling minor selectors/coaches.

thesultan

Not much good flogging the minors with half the team puking

The blue blaa

brickeyvalley wrote: »

Sean Lyons (Ballyduff Lower) manager, Sean Cullinane, Ray Murphy, Wayne Power and Alan Dempsey are the Hurling minor selectors/coaches.

I heard Philly Flynn (Mount Sion) has taken over the U16s county team from ex county players Noel Crowley & Mossey O keeffe.

stumblingblock

westcork blue wrote: »

Jake Dillon was playing in Harty cup winning team at the age of 13, complete madness

Ah come on now!!! Jake was on the 08 winning team he would have turned 15. Definetly not uncommon at schools level. Paudie Mahony would've been the same age the year before.

In the 07 winning team Jake wasn't on it he wouldvr been only u14. Tony Forristal winner that as someone said. Even McGrath would have the cop on not to play an U14 at senior colleges level!

westcork blue

Paudie is a year older than jake. Jake was u14 in 07 so could not have been more than 14 on 1/1/08, first round of 2008 Harty in November 2007, jake was 14 at most

archieknox

westcork blue wrote: »

Paudie is a year older than jake. Jake was u14 in 07 so could not have been more than 14 on 1/1/08, first round of 2008 Harty in November 2007, jake was 14 at most

You are right. He played on the Tony Forristal team that won out the tournament for the first time in 07.

Slobbery

thesultan wrote: »

Not much good flogging the minors with half the team puking

What are they doing some ridiculous training? Doesn't sound great

Deise Hurler

The blue blaa wrote: »

I heard Philly Flynn (Mount Sion) has taken over the U16s county team from ex county players Noel Crowley & Mossey O keeffe.

A poor choice if so I'm afraid. Not a good trainer. Was over Mount Sion minor team a few years ago and they didn't win one game all year. Heard he made a shambles of there under 21 team last year too.

Surely this role would be ideal for some former county hurlers with an interest in coaching. Someone the young players would respect. Would be great if we could attract the likes of Paul Flynn, Fergal Hartley, Brian Phelan, Dave Bennett, Anthony Kirwan, into managing some of our underage hurling teams. All players with experience of playing successfully at the top level of intercounty and who have done good jobs coaching club teams.

stumblingblock

Looks like it wasn't a good day for waterford players in the Fitzgibbon. Both UCC and WIT beaten both have a host of Waterford lads. UCC will be under serious pressure to qualify now. They have to beat UL who look to be the form team in the competition. WIT took an awful hiding off Mary I. Big surprise there. Also Donie Breathnach, Killian Fitzgerald and Cathal Curran all played for DCU who were beaten by UCD. They're out of it now. Kieran Bennett is playing wing back with LIT who won and they are through. Also there is some Sheahan lad playing for Mary I not sure what club. Other than that don't know of any other Waterford lads in action.

TheScoringGoal

stumblingblock wrote: »

Looks like it wasn't a good day for waterford players in the Fitzgibbon. Both UCC and WIT beaten both have a host of Waterford lads. UCC will be under serious pressure to qualify now. They have to beat UL who look to be the form team in the competition. WIT took an awful hiding off Mary I. Big surprise there. Also Donie Breathnach, Killian Fitzgerald and Cathal Curran all played for DCU who were beaten by UCD. They're out of it now. Kieran Bennett is playing wing back with LIT who won and they are through. Also there is some Sheahan lad playing for Mary I not sure what club. Other than that don't know of any other Waterford lads in action.

Micheal Harney is with Carlow IT.

brickeyvalley

Slobbery wrote: »

What are they doing some ridiculous training? Doesn't sound great

Sport Science would totally disagree with Sean Lyons philosphy of coaching, the amount of preparation being put in is immense, with what 18 training sessions in January you'd think they'd be winning the All Ireland hands down but they seriously lack the strength and height they had the last two years. I would be surprised if they reached the Munster final to be frank based on the draw, they have a handy team in the top 6 in Ireland but there is Limerick and Clare with alot of the same faces as last year. This will be an entirely different minor hurling team.

Furthermore, the county board has destroyed division 2 o the minor football splitting it into two groups of five. That would never occur in the case of hurling, so that means for some lads half their football season is over by Sunday week. Four matches for some is disgraceful, either should be a group of 10 or have playoffs for places and keep it at eight and make division three more competitive. Is there any good matches on over the weekend in the minors, who are Balinacourty or Dungarvan playing?

Mountainlad

stumblingblock wrote: »

Looks like it wasn't a good day for waterford players in the Fitzgibbon. Both UCC and WIT beaten both have a host of Waterford lads. UCC will be under serious pressure to qualify now. They have to beat UL who look to be the form team in the competition. WIT took an awful hiding off Mary I. Big surprise there. Also Donie Breathnach, Killian Fitzgerald and Cathal Curran all played for DCU who were beaten by UCD. They're out of it now. Kieran Bennett is playing wing back with LIT who won and they are through. Also there is some Sheahan lad playing for Mary I not sure what club. Other than that don't know of any other Waterford lads in action.

No Sheahan named as a sub even for Mary I but if there is one on the panel it could be Evan Sheehan who is from Tallow. Quality hurler, but will never have the commitment to be an inter county hurler.

stumblingblock

Mountainlad wrote: »

No Sheahan named as a sub even for Mary I but if there is one on the panel it could be Evan Sheehan who is from Tallow. Quality hurler, but will never have the commitment to be an inter county hurler.

Ok dunno what team I was looking at must have got my wires crossed somewhere

mickotallow

Mountainlad wrote: »

No Sheahan named as a sub even for Mary I but if there is one on the panel it could be Evan Sheehan who is from Tallow. Quality hurler, but will never have the commitment to be an inter county hurler.

Not Evan. He's not in college.

Mountainlad

There was three on the DCU team yesterday, Donie Breathnach seemed to play very well. Killian Fitzgerald played as well, and there was a C Curran who was captain. Assume it was one of the lads from Dungarvan, Cathal or Colm Curran maybe? Would have thought Cormac would be a bit older, though I guess he could still be in college.

stumblingblock

Mountainlad wrote: »

There was three on the DCU team yesterday, Donie Breathnach seemed to play very well. Killian Fitzgerald played as well, and there was a C Curran who was captain. Assume it was one of the lads from Dungarvan, Cathal or Colm Curran maybe? Would have thought Cormac would be a bit older, though I guess he could still be in college.

Cathal. He was minor in 2012 and on the Dungarvan Colleges Harty winning team. Older bro to Patrick and younger brother to Cormac and Colm.

3ships

Other Deise Fitz players:

Sam O Neill and Barry Whelan are on the WIT panel. Saw Jack Lyons name on one the team sheet but like that Sheehan lad can't remember where. Peter O Keefe of Lismore is on the CIT panel was expecting his clubmate Ray Barry to be on that team but no sign.

That challenge against Clare today in 6mile is behind closed doors. Apparently they are gonna go at it for about 50 mins then bring in subs. Don't know what is the big secret is pre league, maybe Mullane and Podge Collins are back...

archieknox

stumblingblock wrote: »

Cathal. He was minor in 2012 and on the Dungarvan Colleges Harty winning team. Older bro to Patrick and younger brother to Cormac and Colm.

If you were to see Cathal at underage you would have predicted great things but he hasn't fulfilled his potential just yet. Was dogged with injuries for several years and hasn't got back to his best form since. Was also part of that Forristal winning team of 07.
On a separate matter just looking forward to the Limerick game next weekend how do people see it going? Personally i think we have a good chance. Good workout again Clare will definitely have helped. Just hope we don't go back to the negative tactics of last year because we have enough good hurlers to be confident of getting a result.

3ships

Close game in the bridge tonight possibly Waterford shaded it but would settle on a draw. Tally something like 4-19 to 2-23 margin of error of a couple of points. What is definite is that Clare won the first half and Waterford the second (the one with all the subs). Good few of the lads that didn't play yet getting a run, of them Philip Mahony most likely to start next week. However no Gleeson I don't think.

windy shepard henderson

3ships wrote: »

Close game in the bridge tonight possibly Waterford shaded it but would settle on a draw. Tally something like 4-19 to 2-23 margin of error of a couple of points. What is definite is that Clare won the first half and Waterford the second (the one with all the subs). Good few of the lads that didn't play yet getting a run, of them Philip Mahony most likely to start next week. However no Gleeson I don't think.

thanks for the report i heard it was a draw aswell , sounds like a good workout happy to hear that , i think the 1b thing will work in ye'r favor for championship wexford and limerick will be tough to beat and laois usually play great hurling this time of year especially at home nearly beat us in portllaois last year , it will give ye a chance to properly blood some of that new talent ye have coming trough from the minors whithout worrying of being heavily overturned , it allowed us to do the same in 2012 and stood to us the following year