Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

alllcounty

sid wallace wrote: »

People will have to get over Michael Ryan. There was absolutely no continuity, rhyme or reason to his management. We were through three back room teams in just over a year and we were promised a fourth if he got reappointed. He presided over a situation in 2012 where we exited the championship earlier than in 2011 and a situation in 2013 where we in turn exited the championship earlier than in 2012. That's a steady decline no matter how you look at it and he presided over it. He got a good run at it and that was his record. Sooner or later a halt had to be called to his reign. In typical fashion the county board were always going to be too weaselly to do it, so it was left to a group of players (again) to do the needful.

And will your clueless mate Derek get good performances from the team in the league and go toe to toe with Kilkenny in the championship assuming he gets the job. It looks like history repeating itself, Michael Ryan got the best out of DLS in 2010 whether you want to admit it or not and then comes along derek and the team regresses. He is also known for spending large amounts of money when it is not there to begin with.

sid wallace

alllcounty wrote: »

And will your clueless mate Derek get good performances from the team in the league and go toe to toe with Kilkenny in the championship assuming he gets the job. It looks like history repeating itself, Michael Ryan got the best out of DLS in 2010 whether you want to admit it or not and then comes along derek and the team regresses. He is also known for spending large amounts of money when it is not there to begin with.

I know nothing about "Derek" and if it was my choice I'd go for "Peter". Either way anything has to be better than "Scully".

robopaddy

sid wallace wrote: »

I know nothing about "Derek" and if it was my choice I'd go for "Peter". Either way anything has to be better than "Scully".

I dont beleive any manager would have gotten any better out of that group of players over the 2 years. Yes results wise we regressed and we we werent getting to AI semis like we were under davy fitz but you have to be realistic we were in transition and didnt have the same quality at our disposal as we did in previous years. Davy fitz saw that coming too and was cute enough to run before his reputation was dented plus the fact he saw that the kitty was running on empty. It was left to skully to keep things ticking over while the money was gone and while the team was in transition. It was a lose lose situation for him and compared to the embarrassment of riches his predecessors had at his disposal he had to deal with a lot of adversity during his tenure.

I think he deserves a bit more credit for the work that he did than to have his tenure constantly written off as a joke by people like you because you never liked who he was in the first place. We were within a whisker of beating KK it could have all been so different. As was said here before it wasnt skully ryan who drove wide after wide from scoring distances in the second half of that game

sid wallace

robopaddy wrote: »

I dont beleive any manager would have gotten any better out of that group of players over the 2 years. Yes results wise we regressed and we we werent getting to AI semis like we were under davy fitz but you have to be realistic we were in transition and didnt have the same quality at our disposal as we did in previous years. Davy fitz saw that coming too and was cute enough to run before his reputation was dented plus the fact he saw that the kitty was running on empty. It was left to skully to keep things ticking over while the money was gone and while the team was in transition. It was a lose lose situation for him and compared to the embarrassment of riches his predecessors had at his disposal he had to deal with a lot of adversity during his tenure.

I think he deserves a bit more credit for the work that he did than to have his tenure constantly written off as a joke by people like you because you never liked who he was in the first place. We were within a whisker of beating KK it could have all been so different. As was said here before it wasnt skully ryan who drove wide after wide from scoring distances in the second half of that game

Why do you say I never liked who he was in the first place?
I never offered any comment to that effect. I am judging him purely on his record.

glick6

Hey guys. Sorry if this has already been talked over but I haven't been on in a while.

Does anyone know/ has anyone heard anything regarding the physical trainer situation? I heard the panel voted to keep pat Flanagan and jimmy Payne, anyone else hear this?

culbaire666

Lads can someone clarify something. Michael Ryan's success was with DLS in 2010 was he also in charge of the team when they reached the All Ireland Club final in08/09.

sid wallace

culbaire666 wrote: »

Lads can someone clarify something. Michael Ryan's success was with DLS in 2010 was he also in charge of the team when they reached the All Ireland Club final in08/09.

No that would have been Owen Dunphy who was full back on the 1992 All Ireland Under 21 team.

robopaddy

sid wallace wrote: »

Why do you say I never liked who he was in the first place?
I never offered any comment to that effect. I am judging him purely on his record.

Im going by posts submitted under your previous/other usernames

deiseach

Am I being unfair if I suggest that the reason Queally is now the front runner is because his most recent loss (to Clare with the Under-21's) is less recent than McGrath's most recent loss (to Ballygunner with De La Salle)?

premierstone

sid wallace wrote: »

I know nothing about.............

I agree

robopaddy

deiseach wrote: »

Am I being unfair if I suggest that the reason Queally is now the front runner is because his most recent loss (to Clare with the Under-21's) is less recent than McGrath's most recent loss (to Ballygunner with De La Salle)?

Dont think either can be considered the front runner at this stage.

Definetly McGraths credentials have taken a set back following that loss. Many people seemed to think it was a given that DLS would run away with the co. championship and take beating in Munster Club Championship and that he would then be a shoe-in for the Waterford job but it hasnt worked out that way at al..

alllcounty

deiseach wrote: »

Am I being unfair if I suggest that the reason Queally is now the front runner is because his most recent loss (to Clare with the Under-21's) is less recent than McGrath's most recent loss (to Ballygunner with De La Salle)?

In the U21 game that Queally managed, Clare were favourites to win but waterford did better than expected, being 2 points up 10 mins into the second half before the sending off changed the game. In the DLS v BG game it was DLS who were favourites to win but that didn't happen and the manner of the performance was in stark contrast to 2010 or the U21 game.

Queally managed Youghal in 2011 before applying for the wat job. He got them to a premier intermediate county final for the first time in 18 yrs and lost narrowly by 2 points. He managed Passage this year, they were the first wat team as far as i know that won the mollerans tournment and they are in the county semi next weekend. DLS have been poor in munster last year and were poor again against BG.

Based on management of teams so far who do you think should get it.

deiseach

alllcounty wrote: »

Based on management of teams so far who do you think should get it.

I have no idea. I made my observation based on the number of comments here rowing in behind Queally. Not exactly scientific.

robopaddy

The u21 game against Clare this year was a funny kind of a game while we were still in it well into the second half it was only because Clare kept us in it with the amount of wides they had, and the fact that everything Jake Dillon touched off went over the bar that day.

Overall I thought it was a poor performance and we were ill-disciplined. To say we got as close to Clare as any other county did after but that dosent stand up with me because we actually beat that Clare team convincingly 3 years ago at minor in Walsh Park so its not like management had us punching above our weight anything. It is an exceptionally good Clare team but we woould have been up there with the best of the rest in this grade this year imo.

Saying that, Id still think Queally is worth a shot over McGrath

sid wallace

robopaddy wrote: »

Im going by posts submitted under your previous/other usernames

Oh yeah. Sorry I forgot that.

alllcounty

robopaddy wrote: »

Overall I thought it was a poor performance and we were ill-disciplined. To say we got as close to Clare as any other county did after but that dosent stand up with me because we actually beat that Clare team convincingly 3 years ago at minor in Walsh Park so its not like management had us punching above our weight anything.

That Clare team has gone to a different level since we beat them at minor in the first round in 2010. That beating we gave them was the starting point for Clare's new style of hurling. And yes I do think management had us punching above our weight 3 yrs later at U21.The then Clare minor managers Donal Maloney and Gerry O'Conner set about finding someone who could take that Clare minor team to another level and improve them so they could start winning. They were put in the direction of a 25 year old highly intelligent maths teacher in St Caimins (Shannon) who was playing midfield for the Limerick footballers. He was begining to impress lads who went to school in St Caimins where he brought them to a Harty final the year before in 2009. That man was Paul Kinnerk.He had a different mindset towards training. He wouldn't let them play games until he got them fit and got their touch right. Kinnerk emphasised the importance of getting your technique absolutely right. He broke down all the different skills and applications of the skills. Players were working under intense pressure and making decisions in tight and confined spaces.He devised an aerial drill that helped take their hurling to another level. They were changing Clare's traditional style of hurling, but they were doing so to accommodate the players they had, some of which were light, pacey, classy ball-players. Their style was based on guarding possession, off-loading off the shoulder, patient build-ups and shooting from distance.Once they got traction, they were up and running. Tackling and contact largely defined their sessions. When the minors trained before the seniors one evening in 2010, the senior players realised the minors were operating at a different level to them.When Davy took over in 2012 he brought Paul Kinnerk in as trainer. Anyhow I do think the performance of the Wat U21 team was better than I tought as comparing them directly to the minor team 3 yrs ago when we beat them well in the first round is inaccurate as this Clare team have been operating at a higher level than our players since then. So I would give Queally some credit the way he set up the U21 team this year, he had them fired up, playing on the edge and the sweeper was working until the sending off hapened.

Deise_2012

robopaddy wrote: »

The u21 game against Clare this year was a funny kind of a game while we were still in it well into the second half it was only because Clare kept us in it with the amount of wides they had, and the fact that everything Jake Dillon touched off went over the bar that day.

Overall I thought it was a poor performance and we were ill-disciplined. To say we got as close to Clare as any other county did after but that dosent stand up with me because we actually beat that Clare team convincingly 3 years ago at minor in Walsh Park so its not like management had us punching above our weight anything. It is an exceptionally good Clare team but we woould have been up there with the best of the rest in this grade this year imo.

Saying that, Id still think Queally is worth a shot over McGrath

didn't clare beat them in the munster final in 2010?

robopaddy

Deise_2012 wrote: »

didn't clare beat them in the munster final in 2010?

They did but Waterford had accounted for them already in the first round.

Our lads were forced to play that Munster Final 3 days after beating Cork in the Munster Semi Final replay. Whoever agreed to play a Munster semi replay on this date considering there was a 10 day gap since the drawn game I dont know.

robopaddy

alllcounty wrote: »

That Clare team has gone to a different level since we beat them at minor in the first round in 2010. That beating we gave them was the starting point for Clare's new style of hurling. And yes I do think management had us punching above our weight 3 yrs later at U21.The then Clare minor managers Donal Maloney and Gerry O'Conner set about finding someone who could take that Clare minor team to another level and improve them so they could start winning. They were put in the direction of a 25 year old highly intelligent maths teacher in St Caimins (Shannon) who was playing midfield for the Limerick footballers. He was begining to impress lads who went to school in St Caimins where he brought them to a Harty final the year before in 2009. That man was Paul Kinnerk.He had a different mindset towards training. He wouldn't let them play games until he got them fit and got their touch right. Kinnerk emphasised the importance of getting your technique absolutely right. He broke down all the different skills and applications of the skills. Players were working under intense pressure and making decisions in tight and confined spaces.He devised an aerial drill that helped take their hurling to another level. They were changing Clare's traditional style of hurling, but they were doing so to accommodate the players they had, some of which were light, pacey, classy ball-players. Their style was based on guarding possession, off-loading off the shoulder, patient build-ups and shooting from distance.Once they got traction, they were up and running. Tackling and contact largely defined their sessions. When the minors trained before the seniors one evening in 2010, the senior players realised the minors were operating at a different level to them.When Davy took over in 2012 he brought Paul Kinnerk in as trainer. Anyhow I do think the performance of the Wat U21 team was better than I tought as comparing them directly to the minor team 3 yrs ago when we beat them well in the first round is inaccurate as this Clare team have been operating at a higher level than our players since then. So I would give Queally some credit the way he set up the U21 team this year, he had them fired up, playing on the edge and the sweeper was working until the sending off hapened.

I read that article in the Indo 2 weeks ago aswell impressive stuff alriight they have well and truly set the bar up there fair dues to them

Black Suir

hardybuck wrote: »

If the consultation had not happened, would we have made a quiet re-appointment behind closed doors and without any formal process or consideration of alternative candidates?

It could not be done behind closed doors as no appointment could be rubberstamped without going before a delegate meeting. The clubs have the final say, or so that is what they are told. Sometimes there is so many officers at a meeting and the number of clubs would be small enough that the officers can do as they wish. I think it is 15 or 16 that make up the county board and then you have 6 or 7 from the two divisions to add to that total, but there is some double jobbing so the overall number might be down around 27 or 28, plus often the clubs of the officers.

deiseach

Black Suir wrote: »

It could not be done behind closed doors as no appointment could be rubberstamped without going before a delegate meeting. The clubs have the final say, or so that is what they are told. Sometimes there is so many officers at a meeting and the number of clubs would be small enough that the officers can do as they wish. I think it is 15 or 16 that make up the county board and then you have 6 or 7 from the two divisions to add to that total, but there is some double jobbing so the overall number might be down around 27 or 28, plus often the clubs of the officers.

How frequent are delegate meetings?

hardybuck

Black Suir wrote: »

It could not be done behind closed doors as no appointment could be rubberstamped without going before a delegate meeting. The clubs have the final say, or so that is what they are told. Sometimes there is so many officers at a meeting and the number of clubs would be small enough that the officers can do as they wish. I think it is 15 or 16 that make up the county board and then you have 6 or 7 from the two divisions to add to that total, but there is some double jobbing so the overall number might be down around 27 or 28, plus often the clubs of the officers.

I may be asking to much of you, but has there ever been a situation in Waterford where the delegates have not accepted the recommendation of the board? You see it in other counties where delegates are very vocal. I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem to be the case here.

Mountainlad

robopaddy wrote: »

The u21 game against Clare this year was a funny kind of a game while we were still in it well into the second half it was only because Clare kept us in it with the amount of wides they had, and the fact that everything Jake Dillon touched off went over the bar that day.

Overall I thought it was a poor performance and we were ill-disciplined. To say we got as close to Clare as any other county did after but that dosent stand up with me because we actually beat that Clare team convincingly 3 years ago at minor in Walsh Park so its not like management had us punching above our weight anything. It is an exceptionally good Clare team but we woould have been up there with the best of the rest in this grade this year imo.

Saying that, Id still think Queally is worth a shot over McGrath

Wouldn't even dream of calling Waterford ill-disciplined in the u21 game. If anything Clare were (to the point that cynical might even be a fair description), nearly all our scores came from frees.

We were winning the game when Paudie Prender got sent off and I doubt Clare would have got those goals with him on the field. Also, but for a terrible mistake by Duggan in goal we still might have had a chance. We were also missing two Senior hurlers in Paudie Mahony and Gavin O'Brien.

Compare the performance to last year, and 2011 and 2010, all of which were teams that had a lot of hype about them. And then consider how this Clare team has progressed since, I think it was quite a good performance.

However, I don't think a defeat is the basis for someone to be getting a Senior inter-county job. I would certainly without hesitation give him the u21 job again.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

Wouldn't even dream of calling Waterford ill-disciplined in the u21 game. If anything Clare were (to the point that cynical might even be a fair description), nearly all our scores came from frees.

We were winning the game when Paudie Prender got sent off and I doubt Clare would have got those goals with him on the field. Also, but for a terrible mistake by Duggan in goal we still might have had a chance. We were also missing two Senior hurlers in Paudie Mahony and Gavin O'Brien.

Compare the performance to last year, and 2011 and 2010, all of which were teams that had a lot of hype about them. And then consider how this Clare team has progressed since, I think it was quite a good performance.

However, I don't think a defeat is the basis for someone to be getting a Senior inter-county job. I would certainly without hesitation give him the u21 job again.

I think the sending off in itself was a result of ill-discipline. A fellah knew he was on a yellow card tackled your man the way he did and possibly cost his teamates the game.... anyway whats done is done

Mountainlad

robopaddy wrote: »

I think the sending off in itself was a result of ill-discipline. A fellah knew he was on a yellow card tackled your man the way he did and possibly cost his teamates the game.... anyway whats done is done

Yeah but that's one player. Hardly a blot on Queally's performance as manager?

Black Suir

deiseach wrote: »

How frequent are delegate meetings?

2nd Monday of every month except August. Can be held in between if the need arises.

Black Suir

hardybuck wrote: »

I may be asking to much of you, but has there ever been a situation in Waterford where the delegates have not accepted the recommendation of the board? You see it in other counties where delegates are very vocal. I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem to be the case here.

There is a major problem with the quality of some delegates within the county. Many turn up go into the room and have a snooze. Others have a little competition to see how many times they can get up and head to either the jacks or go to the front door and have a fag and see then can they beat their record for the amount of times it happens. The ones having a snooze, well they say little or nothing during the meeting the rest do their talking in the jacks or outside. Some of the clubs in Waterford would want to be ashamed of themselves the people they send to meetings. There would be appear to be a line of thinking in some clubs that Johnny, Paddy or Mick or going for years and they cant take the job off them. Until they start sending quality delegates to the meetings, this county is going no where.

Deise Doodler

Deise_2012 wrote: »

I would prefer to see Queally getting the job. If he does I think he'll bring Darragh Duggan in as one of his hurling coaches, bit of an unknown to some but he has worked wonders with the Dungarvan harty cup team the last few years and has transformed Abbeyside's hurling campaign this season.

I heard he will be part of Derek McGrath team if he get it, would have thought it more likely that he would be part of Queally team considering he was part of under 21 set up this year ?

taytobreath

anyone happy for davy today? I think, yes he did get the best out of the waterford team. He can be an eijet but good luck to him

sid wallace

taytobreath wrote: »

anyone happy for davy today? I think, yes he did get the best out of the waterford team. He can be an eijet but good luck to him

Absolutely delighted for him.