Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Fireball07

Ropaire wrote: »

Well historically they've killed all before them. How about last years hurling quarter finals for a more direct view of how 1b teams do.

Last year, there were 2 1B teams in the quarter-final; they played each other?

culbaire

Contrast the quality of hurling played by Ballyhale Shamrocks with the junk hurling played by Ballygunner in the Munster Club Championship. It is a wake up call for Waterford hurling. Ballygunner was slow and sluggish with very little skill. Ballyhale is light years ahead of Ballygunner in terms of skill and general know how.

TyrionPower

culbaire wrote: »

Contrast the quality of hurling played by Ballyhale Shamrocks with the junk hurling played by Ballygunner in the Munster Club Championship. It is a wake up call for Waterford hurling. Ballygunner was slow and sluggish with very little skill. Ballyhale is light years ahead of Ballygunner in terms of skill and general know how.

'Kilkenny hurling light years ahead of Waterford hurling shocker'

KevIRL

Fireball07 wrote: »

Last year, there were 2 1B teams in the quarter-final; they played each other?

Nope. Same format as this year. Four 1B teams in the QF and they played (lost to) four 1A teams.

Galway beat Limerick
Clare beat Laois
Tipp beat Cork
KK beat Wexford

Fireball07

KevIRL wrote: »

Nope. Same format as this year. Four 1B teams in the QF and they played (lost to) four 1A teams.

Galway beat Limerick
Clare beat Laois
Tipp beat Cork
KK beat Wexford

I presumed he meant AI QFs but yeah, that's fair enough. Being in 1B probably is a disadvantage in the league QFs alright.

I obviously have no proof but I think that we'd have beaten Galway in the Championship; but they completely destroyed us in the league, we were pathetic.

hurler on de ditch

stumblingblock wrote: »

Im not even going to try and attempt to engage in a civilised debate with you.

why ? would it be TOO COMPETITIVE FOR YA ? would you prefer if i was 6 yrs of age,ha ha ha ha ha

stumblingblock

Ropaire wrote: »

We do want to be in 1a though, we've butchered every team we've played bar limerick. Although its good for confidence and moral we're not learning anything and it's going to be a big step up to play any of the 1a teams.

Its the equivalent of New Zealand, Australia and South Africa bludgeoning each other in whatever the tri nations is called these days and then coming up here for a cake walk over teams used to playing Italy and Scotland. We have to play the best to be the best.

I agree dont get me wrong of course you want to play the best. But Ive always said a season in 1b wouldnt do us any harm given we had a very young team. I just think this season has done wonders for us. People need ro remember where we were at last year, we took couple of awful beatings off clare and kilkenny and people were saying we werent up to that level and that the young lads were out of their depth. I think it knocked a bit out of everyone including management and the fear factor followed us into the Championship. Clare had a season down there a couple years ago and they came back and won an all ireland after it.
Im not saying we should do a limerick either, stuck in a rut down there with the past 4 or 5 years just cant drag themselves out of it

Ropaire

stumblingblock wrote: »

I agree dont get me wrong of course you want to play the best. But Ive always said a season in 1b wouldnt do us any harm given we had a very young team. I just think this season has done wonders for us. People need ro remember where we were at last year, we took couple of awful beatings off clare and kilkenny and people were saying we werent up to that level and that the young lads were out of their depth. I think it knocked a bit out of everyone including management and the fear factor followed us into the Championship. Clare had a season down there a couple years ago and they came back and won an all ireland after it.
Im not saying we should do a limerick either, stuck in a rut down there with the past 4 or 5 years just cant drag themselves out of it

Yeah I fully agree, for the age profile of the team and the way we played last year a stint in 1b gives management and players a chance to build some confidence and momentum. Hopefully we're after bottoming out and are well and truly on the upswing, get back in 1a next year as a stronger unit and stay there. Championship could go either way, Cork benefitted from 1b last year in the same way i hope we will, hopefully they're not too far ahead of us but they look to be going well so far.

stumblingblock

culbaire wrote: »

Contrast the quality of hurling played by Ballyhale Shamrocks with the junk hurling played by Ballygunner in the Munster Club Championship. It is a wake up call for Waterford hurling. Ballygunner was slow and sluggish with very little skill. Ballyhale is light years ahead of Ballygunner in terms of skill and general know how.

Ballyhale would have blown Ballygunner out of the water today no matter what type of hurling was played. Or any other club for that matter. Lads like Shefflin, the Fennellys, The Reid’s, The Aylwards’s, Holden, Cha Fitz these are lads most county teams would like to have available not to mind clubs.

Alf Tupper

stumblingblock wrote: »

Ballyhale would have blown Ballygunner out of the water today no matter what type of hurling was played. Or any other club for that matter. Lads like Shefflin, the Fennellys, The Reid’s, The Aylwards’s, Holden, Cha Fitz these are lads most county teams would like to have available not to mind clubs.

Heartiest congrats to Andy Moloney today in what must be an unbelievably sweet victory for him, especially after the way certain prima donnas transpired to oust him in his own club.

What a stand up and honest guy that any club would be lucky to have to train them - well almost.

It's always great to see the good guys come out on top.

Ballygunner's loss - Ballyhale's gain.

citykat

Alf Tupper wrote: »

Heartiest congrats to Andy Moloney today in what must be an unbelievably sweet victory for him, especially after the way certain prima donnas transpired to oust him in his own club.

What a stand up and honest guy that any club would be lucky to have to train them - well almost.

It's always great to see the good guys come out on top.

Ballygunner's loss - Ballyhale's gain.

Given where he ended up, I'd say he was happy to have been ousted.

HillFarmer

Saw on twitter Wexford have 13 goals scored in the league, albeit against poor enough opposition but they certainly have guys that have an eye for the 3 points when its on. Not sure what we have clocked up.

Goals here on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4qkg7YdL3I

I think we're the better team tbh but just have to be wary. I don't think we'll be beaten if our full backline is on top.

Cant wait for Sunday!

Cake Man

I agree I think we have a better side then Wexford and if our FB line can hold their lethal FF line of Liam Og McGovern, Jack Guiney (don't think he played any part v Laois last weekend?) and Conor McDonald we can come out on top.
It'll be a close one though.

HillFarmer

Great Highlights of the U21 all ireland between Clare and Wexford if your having a slow day. Good standard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PiiOD33nCQ

In fairness Guiney and Mcdonald are serious quality.

HillFarmer

Cake Man wrote: »

I agree I think we have a better side then Wexford and if our FB line can hold their lethal FF line of Liam Og McGovern, Jack Guiney (don't think he played any part v Laois last weekend?) and Conor McDonald we can come out on top.
It'll be a close one though.

Ya Mcdonald is strong in the air, kinda like Larry Murphy type.

With all that said, I think we should handle them

This game though will give Coughlan a good test at Fullback.

hurler on de ditch

Ropaire wrote: »

Yeah I fully agree, for the age profile of the team and the way we played last year a stint in 1b gives management and players a chance to build some confidence and momentum. Hopefully we're after bottoming out and are well and truly on the upswing, get back in 1a next year as a stronger unit and stay there. Championship could go either way, Cork benefitted from 1b last year in the same way i hope we will, hopefully they're not too far ahead of us but they look to be going well so far.

Cork have about 60 All Ireland's from senior down to minor ,and you think Cork benefited from div 1b,it truly gets worse ,,now if you were to compare us to someone with the same kind of hurling history ,well we have Kerry with 1 All Ireland so we have 1 more than them,28 less than cork (although Cork did have a spell in div 1b)as soon as championship is on ,management will go back to their negative ways,one man forward line ,pack the midfield ,pack the defence etc etc,basically **** yourselves,but sure we will wait and see ,so far we got a draw off what is the considered the best team in div 1b,and we face Wexford this weekend 6 All Ireland's ,19 Leinster's ,4 national leagues,coming from a county that has to compete wih KK who have 35 All Ireland's ,69 Leinster's ,17Leagues, yep div 1b is great to bring on young lads ,sweet jebus

hardybuck

HillFarmer wrote: »

Ya Mcdonald is strong in the air, kinda like Larry Murphy type.

With all that said, I think we should handle them

This game though will give Coughlan a good test at Fullback.

He's more of a Joe Canning than a Larry Murphy I think.

blueflame

While one would have to be happy with results still not happy with overall playing. We still show a lot of negative tendencies, like one or two man full forward lines and forwards playing so deep they are picking up ball behind our half back line and some times in full back line. Laois, Antrim and Offaly all tried containment measures against us withdrawing forward flooding mid-field and half back lines and came out on the wrong side of beatings, much like we did last year. If we try these tactics against Wexford we are likely to get a similar result to last year also.

I would really like to see us go to Wexford Park without fear and have a go, apply pressure on their back lines and keep them on the back foot. I think a combination of Stephen Bennett at full forward with Colin Dunford on one side and Brian O'Halloran on the other is a line that will get scores. A half forward line of Mahony, Brick and Maurice is capable of winning more than its fair share of ball and scoring also. A bit concerned with our full back option, Coughlan is a game lad and gives 100% but feel he just comes up a bit short, and fouls to much. Personally i would like to see De Burca in there, i know he would be a loss at half back but he is a tight marker and no nonsense defender when needed, is an exceptionally cool customer and has pace to contend with trickier lighter full forwards also. A half back line of Prendergast, Philip Mahony and Kevin Moran has little wrong with in my book. Also feel we need to look at midfield, Barron and O'Neill work hard but are a little light and lacking midfield experience at this stage. Not a big fan but Shane Sullivan might just be what is needed for Sunday as whatever he lacks, he is combative and think we will need that Sunday. Obviously a returning Gleeson, Daniels Shane Bennett and Darragh Fives would give us massive options in terms of strength etc.. Was very impressed with Tom Devine, looks to have toned up a bit and seemed a lot fitter and was moving well and has a serious set of wrists on him, he could prove a handful for any defence.

Most importantly we need to go down there believing we are good enough not just to win, but that we are good enough to compete in Division 1A. All these young lads have grown up meeting and beating the Corks, Tipps, and Kilkenny's of this world and that is where they need to be now.

Ropaire

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

Cork have about 60 All Ireland's from senior down to minor ,and you think Cork benefited from div 1b,it truly gets worse ,,now if you were to compare us to someone with the same kind of hurling history ,well we have Kerry with 1 All Ireland so we have 1 more than them,28 less than cork (although Cork did have a spell in div 1b)as soon as championship is on ,management will go back to their negative ways,one man forward line ,pack the midfield ,pack the defence etc etc,basically **** yourselves,but sure we will wait and see ,so far we got a draw off what is the considered the best team in div 1b,and we face Wexford this weekend 6 All Ireland's ,19 Leinster's ,4 national leagues,coming from a county that has to compete wih KK who have 35 All Ireland's ,69 Leinster's ,17Leagues, yep div 1b is great to bring on young lads ,sweet jebus

You could be right when it comes to us withdrawing and cacking ourselves come championship time but the rest off your post is a heap of guff. Cork have been improving since they were relegated and are now top of 1a, we have no chance in June if we compare All Irelands but thankfully it'll be a game of hurling that decides it.

hurler on de ditch

Ropaire wrote: »

You could be right when it comes to us withdrawing and cacking ourselves come championship time but the rest off your post is a heap of guff. Cork have been improving since they were relegated and are now top of 1a, we have no chance in June if we compare All Irelands but thankfully it'll be a game of hurling that decides it.

its still a valid point,most if not all the teams in div1a/1b are more successful than us,and its no coincidence when you see how Gaelic Games have and are been run by past and county boards,they will tell you its all about funds but sure they have wasted potential millions over the years eg KK throw on a gig in Nolan Park they get The Boss aka Bruce Springsteen instant cash,we throw on a gig put it 26 miles away from the biggest populated area in the county and throw on JEDWARD FFS .it is no coincidence that we have only 2 all Ireland's, an average of 1 every 65 years,and if and that's a very big IF we win one in the near future it will be more like keeping that average than the start of dominating championships ,we are minnows

3ships

Deferred Coverage of Wexford game Sunday tg4 15:40

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAZJt7RWUAAKGWQ.png:large

KevIRL

Surprised they are showing the kk-clare game live. It's a dead rubber from a kk point of view and clare need a win and other results to go their way (Galway to beat Dublin) to escape the play off.

There's every chance both teams will play each other again in the relegation match whereas in Wexford its a real winner takes all situation and likely to be of much higher intensity

citykat

KevIRL wrote: »

Surprised they are showing the kk-clare game live. It's a dead rubber from a kk point of view and clare need a win and other results to go their way (Galway to beat Dublin) to escape the play off.

There's every chance both teams will play each other again in the relegation match whereas in Wexford its a real winner takes all situation and likely to be of much higher intensity

As a KK man I'd have to agree with you. The only reason I can think for showing this game is that maybe it was decided well in advance before results rendered it practically meaningless. If for no other reason than fairness, TG4 should televise the odd 1B game.

Cake Man

Yeah that's probably it that they had the planned televised fixtures before the league even started and KK v Clare would def be considered a high profile game.

To be fair to TG4, they have a tough job of picking fixtures to televise given that every week there are high profile games in 1A to choose from. Practically every game would be worthy of being televised. Throw in a Sunday where there's both hurling and football on and it makes it even harder.

Tg4 do a good job it has to be said, the highlights package they do on Monday nights is decent. If anything it's be great if they covered more games and made it like Match of the Day in BBC but it's understandable the funds just wouldn't be there.

stumblingblock

Really looking forward to the game Sunday now. I know it’s still only the league but I think the players will have last years championship defeat fresh in their minds. Despite Wexfords improvements in recent seasons and our period of transition, I still feel we are a better side than them. More quality throughout, and better options off the bench. That’s what sickened me most about last years defeat. We were hurling so bad last summer it’s like we were almost resigned to defeat ever before the ball was thrown in, against a team in my opinion we should be beating. Hopefully we have gotten our act together this year and a win on Sunday would really kick start the year, and this team.

Fireball07

With regard to the Wexford forwards, Jack Guiney is talented for sure but I think all Wexford fans would say he is very frustrating and he generally flatters to deceive. Can be very wasteful at times.

McDonald is a great talent, big strong lad, no little skill, eye for goal. Still very young, only going to get better, I'd rate him higher than Guiney.

But the real jewel in their inside forward line is without doubt McGovern who is simply electric. On a different level to the others, as good as they are. He's one of the best forwards in Ireland imo. Work rate is unbelievable, defenders have no choice but to drag him down. Wins frees, sets up scores, hunts down defenders and is able to get ridiculous scores. Made a fool out of the Limerick backline until Seamus Hickey was detailed to man-mark him.

bruschi

I'd agree with fireball, I'm not sure why Guiney gets as much attention outside of Wexford as he is not exactly a guaranteed starter, and with Ian Byrne being excellent on frees last week, taking that from Guiney would put him further down the pecking order. McGovern and McDonald are a class apart, and then the other 4 could be picked from about 8 vying for the remaining spots.

Not entirely sure I'd agree with some assertions here that Waterford should be taking care of Wexford either. Why should they? They are in the same division, and lost to Wexford in championship last year. I dont think there will be much in it, and wouldnt call it either way, definitely would not be saying one team should be able to handle the other one anyway.

and to go back to earlier discussions, stating Wexford went with football over hurling for a few years is totally and utterly inaccurate. Football has not, and will not, affect the hurling capabilities in the county, and is and has been used by an some as an excuse both in Wexford and in other counties. The ability of a hurling team has no ill effects by how the football team is doing. Its a lame excuse. Also, using the "Kilkenny dont play football so their players only play one sport" is also totally incorrect. Last years winning Kilkenny minor man of the match is a star player for Good Counsels football team who are in the AI semi final, and is being targeted by Sydney Swans to play AFL. Another player (again, on the Kilkenny underage hurling teams) is their main forward and is also on the Irish soccer team. Just because they dont have senior football there doesnt mean they dont play other sports or dont have the ability.

blue note

I fancy Waterford to win on Sunday, but I can't really justify it convincingly to be honest. We have looked good so far this year, but we haven't beaten any decent teams. And we haven't beaten any decent teams in the last couple of years of championship either, so it's not as if we have a good recent record of getting over the line when it matters.

And of course Wexford knocked us out of the championship last year. I don't think we did ourselves justice on the day, but at the end of the day they simply beat us. And the knocked out the reigning champs last year, had a draw against Dublin the year before. And they have home advantage.

But for some reason, I just think we'll do it

deisedude

I'm very nervous. Don't think there will be much in it. My head is saying we won't keep McGovern and McDonald quiet and while our forwards have been playing well it has been against inferior opposition. I think Wexford will shade it

KevIRL

I'm not nervous at all, not cause I think we will win - I think it will be v close and could go either way. I just get the feeling that another season in 1B with this v young team wouldn't be the worst thing in the world

I just think that the QF (most likely home to either Dublin or Galway) is a far more important match in terms of how our summer will go. Win that and we'll be full of confidence going into the championship regardless of how Sundays game goes.