Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

seananigans

Psychedelic wrote: »

Although if he was there maybe we would've been relying on him like in previous years. The fact that he is gone means the forwards we have now have to step up to the plate.

hardybuck wrote: »

I've seen very little club hurling this year, and none of Kelly. I thought his legs were gone when I saw him last, could he cope with the pace of modern intercounty?

I think the system we have now wouldn't need to be compromised to include these 2, no one said they have to start.

Be great to have on the bench though, imagine unleashing mullane against KK with 15/20 to go, there wouldn't have been any extra time.

Kelly seems to be playing the most consistently in years, if he can keep that consistency we can say the same of him

hardybuck

seananigans wrote: »

Kelly seems to be playing the most consistently in years, if he can keep that consistency we can say the same of him

Yeah but could he handle the step up in pace and physicality? If he was in similar condition to what he was in 2-4 years ago he'd be in danger of being totally blown out of it.

Could you see him surviving in the pace of that All Ireland Final just recently? That is now the benchmark, seeing as we'll be potentially playing those two teams in our first two games.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Yeah but could he handle the step up in pace and physicality? If he was in similar condition to what he was in 2-4 years ago he'd be in danger of being totally blown out of it.

Could you see him surviving in the pace of that All Ireland Final just recently? That is now the benchmark, seeing as we'll be potentially playing those two teams in our first two games.

Im not bothered about Kelly or Mullane for that matter. They made their decision, good luck to them. Im more interested in the future.


I firmly beleive that the quality is coming through to be back challenging for all irelands again within the next couple of years. Clare have shown that you dont have to wait forever for young players to make the step up if the level of coaching and preparation is good enough. Thats why the next managerial appointment is a crucial one. If the older lads are still around well and good but if theyve decided their time is up then we have to accept that and move on.

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

Im not bothered about Kelly or Mullane for that matter. They made their decision, good luck to them. Im more interested in the future.


I firmly beleive that the quality is coming through to be back challenging for all irelands again within the next couple of years. Clare have shown that you dont have to wait forever for young players to make the step up if the level of coaching and preparation is good enough. Thats why the next managerial appointment is a crucial one. If the older lads are still around well and good but if theyve decided their time is up then we have to accept that and move on.

You can't always be looking to the future. Fair enough, have one eye on it, but in my opinion there needs to be a mix of the best available players right now, and what can develop in the future.

We all know that Mullane in particular is worth 3-5 points in most games. We haven't really found another source of those points, and are definitely short a couple of forwards. Hence I'd like to have the best players right now available to us.

premierstone

hardybuck wrote: »

I really don't understand the underlying resentment towards Mullane. He's one of the best forwards we've ever produced. He devoted himself to the county team for over 10 years. At 32 years of age he decides he wants some time out to spend with his young family, and people snipe at him over it. Some reward for all your years of service...

Yeah but his articles are almost as painful and cringeworthy as Lar's and that is some feckin achievement!

Mountainlad

I think he'd be better of staying retired. Some people are convinced he'll pick up where he left off, I'm not so convinced.

He was the best forward I saw play for Waterford and I include Flynn in that. But everyone has their day. I think it's time to close that chapter.

hardybuck

premierstone wrote: »

Yeah but his articles are almost as painful and cringeworthy as Lar's and that is some feckin achievement!

Don't read the Independent? Problem solved.

premierstone

hardybuck wrote: »

Don't read the Independent? Problem solved.

I'm an examiner man myself, but the father is old school and I drop him up a copy of the indo every day, usually read the back page at most.

Mountainlad

Roanmore have debts amounting to €1million according to WLR. Anyone able to shed light on how this happened?

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Roanmore have debts amounting to €1million according to WLR. Anyone able to shed light on how this happened?

They developed a new facility in recent years in Gracedieu, and have a bar near their Cleaboy pitches which they would have built in the last 10 or 15 years. That's a fair bit of investment for a club of their size.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

They developed a new facility in recent years in Gracedieu, and have a bar near their Cleaboy pitches which they would have built in the last 10 or 15 years. That's a fair bit of investment for a club of their size.

Was that not DLS?

seananigans

Cummins announced his retirement .

If we make it past Cork/Clare ,things are a liittle bit easier

quintain

Mountainlad wrote: »

Was that not DLS?

Both DLS and Roanmore opened new developments in Grace Dieu (Both also have grounds beside each other in Cleaboy). As far as I am aware DLS would have had some money donated to them from the sale of the old DLS centre in town(squash courts etc)

Don't know where Roanmore got the money, or how they thought they would pay it back (TV deals?), or how the bank thought they would pay it back - the manager must have over estimated the potential of cake sales !!

On a more serious note, Croke Park officials will attend the EGM and personally I think it's a crying shame if resources are directed at getting clubs like that out of that mess at the expense of clubs who keep their houses in order.

Now they have to spend resources saving a city club when the city is has as many clubs as it can handle, everybody struggling for players. It would be a tragedy to see the demise of any club but one cold analysis, is that if one of the clubs went under, the city is already well served and the youngsters could easily be catered for by a coimbination of Mount Sion, DLS, St Pauls, Erins Own and St Saviours (Ballygunner is already big enough !!!)

Black Suir

seananigans wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/queally-and-mcgrath-still-head-to-head-in-race-for-deise-job-246552.html

apparently the media think it goes to whoever can deliver mullane, wouldnt be surprised if kelly came back under queally though

Eoin Kelly said earlier live on WLR on Saturday that he hoped to be back with Waterford again in 2014.

Black Suir

Mountainlad wrote: »

I believe Kilkenny started doing this, and it wasn't restricted to Kilkenny county teams. U12 or u14 club teams would be visited by a Kilkenny All ireland winner who would take them for at least one coaching session in a year.

As for saying that what Cork are doing is more than what we're doing, I'm sure you'll find plenty of disagreement down their way.

By saying Cork were doing more than we are, what I meant was that they were getting ex seniors involved with the development squads. As things stand - structure wise, we are that bit better than Cork right now, but I think they may be moving in the right direction. I think I saw some place that they cut the amount of Bord na nÓg Committees they have by half, merging the divisions with a neighbouring division.

Black Suir

robopaddy wrote: »

I would like to see something similar in Waterford, top names from the past 10/15 years getting involved with development squads starting from u14 level all the way up along. Even if it was just one for each group. Guys like Dan Shanahan, Ken McGrath, Eoin Kelly, John Mullane, Eoin Murphy, Clinton Hennessy etc who have all retired in the last few years and would have been idols for these lads growing up and they have a wealth of experience and expertise that can be passed onto the next generation. Even if they were involved just as selectors or similar capacity as opposed to managing or coaching but I think what Cork are doing with the 2 lads mentioned above is a brilliant idea and these young lads are coming through the system with an insight into what is needed to be successful at the top level

I don't know the answer, but do we have many former and present inter county players out of work right now, and would it be possible through the county board, the Munster Council and the GPA to get them involved in a coaching scheme where they would visit the schools and clubs as well as work with the Development Squads. It could help to bring us to the next level. I don't mean to be disrespectful to the lads that are involved with the Development squads but who would a 13, 14, 15 or 16 year old lad prefer to listen to, Joe Soap or Paddy Power or Mick Murphy that people may not have heard of outside of their own club, or a player that would have played hurling or football for their county, maybe won senior county final medals, muster final medals and maybe played in an All-Ireland semi final or final. the Joe's Paddy's or Mick's that I mentioned may be very good men, but if they had a former inter county player working along side them as a coach, then it could bring on the players more as they might be inclined to listen more, especially at the under 13 and 14 levels.

Sami Jenkis

quintain wrote: »

Both DLS and Roanmore opened new developments in Grace Dieu (Both also have grounds beside each other in Cleaboy). As far as I am aware DLS would have had some money donated to them from the sale of the old DLS centre in town(squash courts etc)

Don't know where Roanmore got the money, or how they thought they would pay it back (TV deals?), or how the bank thought they would pay it back - the manager must have over estimated the potential of cake sales !!

On a more serious note, Croke Park officials will attend the EGM and personally I think it's a crying shame if resources are directed at getting clubs like that out of that mess at the expense of clubs who keep their houses in order.

Now they have to spend resources saving a city club when the city is has as many clubs as it can handle, everybody struggling for players. It would be a tragedy to see the demise of any club but one cold analysis, is that if one of the clubs went under, the city is already well served and the youngsters could easily be catered for by a coimbination of Mount Sion, DLS, St Pauls, Erins Own and St Saviours (Ballygunner is already big enough !!!)

Agree with you 100% on the first point.

And on the second, you clearly don't know the club scene in the city if you think any of them teams would ever combine to play together. Hell might freeze over first.:)

Black Suir

Psychedelic wrote: »

I don't know if I'd like to see Mullane return next year.

He chose to retire and stated in the clearest terms possible that it had nothing to do with Michael Ryan, it was all to do with him not being able to devote the time to inter-county hurling any more. To see him come back then once Michael Ryan is gone (and especially if Derek McGrath is appointed) would seem to me an admission of deceit on his behalf.

It would also be a bit sickening to think he wasn't around this year when we really needed him when he may have made the difference to us getting passed Kilkenny. Although if he was there maybe we would've been relying on him like in previous years. The fact that he is gone means the forwards we have now have to step up to the plate.

In saying all that I can't say I wouldn't be excited by seeing him return.

I would love to see Mullane back in a Waterford Shirt, but tend to agree with you, there is some that will turn on him if he comes back,

Black Suir

Mountainlad wrote: »

Roanmore have debts amounting to €1million according to WLR. Anyone able to shed light on how this happened?

Do they own or rent the field at Cleyboy. If they own it and wanted to develop new grounds, why did they not sell the old field first and use the money to offset some of the cost. Back in the mid 00's when they bought the land, there would be developers who would have paid big money for the field.

Black Suir

quintain wrote: »

Both DLS and Roanmore opened new developments in Grace Dieu (Both also have grounds beside each other in Cleaboy). As far as I am aware DLS would have had some money donated to them from the sale of the old DLS centre in town(squash courts etc)

Don't know where Roanmore got the money, or how they thought they would pay it back (TV deals?), or how the bank thought they would pay it back - the manager must have over estimated the potential of cake sales !!

On a more serious note, Croke Park officials will attend the EGM and personally I think it's a crying shame if resources are directed at getting clubs like that out of that mess at the expense of clubs who keep their houses in order.

Now they have to spend resources saving a city club when the city is has as many clubs as it can handle, everybody struggling for players. It would be a tragedy to see the demise of any club but one cold analysis, is that if one of the clubs went under, the city is already well served and the youngsters could easily be catered for by a coimbination of Mount Sion, DLS, St Pauls, Erins Own and St Saviours (Ballygunner is already big enough !!!)

Maybe he or she is one of these people that know little about the G.A.A. but think that it has a bottomless pit of money stuck in some corner of a building. Everyone knows that there is hardly a club in Waterford that can boast to have money right now. Its made worse by the demands that the county board are put on them every year to bail them out for some mad spending over a few years.

I can see more and more clubs coming out and admitting that they are in trouble in the next year or two.

Black Suir

Sami Jenkis wrote: »

Agree with you 100% on the first point.

And on the second, you clearly don't know the club scene in the city if you think any of them teams would ever combine to play together. Hell might freeze over first.:)

Not over familiar of the city area myself and what areas the clubs pick from. Would I be right in thinking that Roanmore were formed as a break away from Mount Sion after new estates sprung up in the Lisduggan/Cleyboy areas in the 70's and 80's and that Saint Pauls are a bit of a break away from Roanmore, maybe by players who wanted to play football more than hurling.

alllcounty

Black Suir wrote: »

I can see more and more clubs coming out and admitting that they are in trouble in the next year or two.

I wonder will Ballygunner be ok to pay for their impressive facilities including a indoor astroturf pitch costing 1.5m. It would be a shame if Roanmore went out of existence as they field most of their underage teams in the A division and DLS is big enough as it is.

quintain

Sami Jenkis wrote: »

And on the second, you clearly don't know the club scene in the city if you think any of them teams would ever combine to play together. Hell might freeze over first.:)

no, I meant that if a club went under and no longer existed, there would be alternative clubs for the youngsters to go to. I have no illusions about how much we all love each other !!

quintain

Black Suir wrote: »

Maybe he or she is one of these people that know little about the G.A.A.

let's not get into a conversation about bankers but that is exactly my point, the banker knew nothing about the GAA and threw money at them.

They are 1 million in debt and tbh the facilities that they have at the end of it are nothing spectacular, I see plenty of "little" country clubs who have nicer set ups. No disrespect to the people involved in Roanmore who are probably finding themselves on the wrong side of some very unfortunate decision making in the past but it really is some mess.

quintain

alllcounty wrote: »

I wonder will Ballygunner be ok to pay for their impressive facilities including a indoor astroturf pitch costing 1.5m. It would be a shame if Roanmore went out of existence as they field most of their underage teams in the A division and DLS is big enough as it is.

as far as I'm aware, Ballgunner got a lot of money in grant aid, some of it from the sports council, my theory is that's why we have the name Ballygunner GAA "Community" Gym.

Ballygunner have magnificent facilities, very many professional sports clubs in all codes here and the UK would be envious of what the gunners have, and as far I know they are pretty well founded financially.

Mountainlad

quintain wrote: »

as far as I'm aware, Ballgunner got a lot of money in grant aid, some of it from the sports council, my theory is that's why we have the name Ballygunner GAA "Community" Gym.

Ballygunner have magnificent facilities, very many professional sports clubs in all codes here and the UK would be envious of what the gunners have, and as far I know they are pretty well founded financially.

I heard they were massively in debt too though. What the figures are I don't know though.

robopaddy

Black Suir wrote: »

Eoin Kelly said earlier live on WLR on Saturday that he hoped to be back with Waterford again in 2014.

If he wants to well and good but i think his day is done. The days of felahs like him making a half arsed attempt at getting fit expecting ability and reputation to get him on ahead of the lads bursting their balls are gone. The game has moved on from that and if you dont have the required attitude mentality and fitness your way out of your depth. Its a lot more about the team and squad than individuals nowadays. Kelly is a fantastic hurler no doubt about that and is still plenty young to have something to offer. But I cant see him changing his spots this late in his career.

Plenty young lads chomping at the bit

deisedude

robopaddy wrote: »

If he wants to well and good but i think his day is done. The days of felahs like him making a half arsed attempt at getting fit expecting ability and reputation to get him on ahead of the lads bursting their balls are gone. The game has moved on from that and if you dont have the required attitude mentality and fitness your way out of your depth. Its a lot more about the team and squad than individuals nowadays. Kelly is a fantastic hurler no doubt about that and is still plenty young to have something to offer. But I cant see him changing his spots this late in his career.

Plenty young lads chomping at the bit

There is no room for primadonnas in this day. Kelly is still a fantastic club hurler but thats not enough at county level

hardybuck

alllcounty wrote: »

I wonder will Ballygunner be ok to pay for their impressive facilities including a indoor astroturf pitch costing 1.5m. It would be a shame if Roanmore went out of existence as they field most of their underage teams in the A division and DLS is big enough as it is.

Ballygunner always appeared to be a well run, professional club. I think that probably reflects that a lot of the membership are professionals themselves, and have probably got more experience of financial planning etc. than others.

As far as I'm aware, both the DLS and Roanmore pitches in Cleaboy are owned by the City Council, but the clubs have them on long term leases. DLS move up to Gracedieu and then Roanmore follow them up - they can't be seperated!

I would not say that there are too many clubs in the city at all. I think that a number of the clubs could be working far harder to attract members in. Clubs like Erin's Own have a large catchment area which isn't fully exploited. Ferrybank should be doing far better with the population out there, soccer has the hearts and minds out there probably. Saviours have a good hardcore, they are struggling away by the looks of it, but again there is a large population around them.

alllcounty

hardybuck wrote: »

Ballygunner always appeared to be a well run, professional club. I think that probably reflects that a lot of the membership are professionals themselves, and have probably got more experience of financial planning etc. than others.

As far as I'm aware, both the DLS and Roanmore pitches in Cleaboy are owned by the City Council, but the clubs have them on long term leases. DLS move up to Gracedieu and then Roanmore follow them up - they can't be seperated!

I would not say that there are too many clubs in the city at all. I think that a number of the clubs could be working far harder to attract members in. Clubs like Erin's Own have a large catchment area which isn't fully exploited. Ferrybank should be doing far better with the population out there, soccer has the hearts and minds out there probably. Saviours have a good hardcore, they are struggling away by the looks of it, but again there is a large population around them.

It's good the city council owns Roanmore's Cleaboy pitch as the banks wont be able to get their hands on it. The 800,000 debt must have mainly come from purchasing the second field. I dont suppose they could sell their allotments out there for 10,000 each on the extra space they had.

Would some of the Ferrybank population with a kilkenny background send their kids to Slieverue or Kilmacow gaa clubs I wonder as their kids would then be considered part of KK. I would expect Ferrybank and especially Erins Own adult clubs to be doing alot better than they are.

Erins own have won the div 2 county minor championship 2 times in the last 5 years and have been in the top 5 of div 2 on the other 3 times. That's why teams like them never reach their potential at adult level because of the divisional championships they are playing in at intermediate level. Thanks Pat Grant and Eddie Cunningham, both themselves from senior clubs, ye really do put the couny first before ye're own self interests on divisional boards. Clubs like Slieverue and Kilmacow dont have that problem which partly explains why they always hammer Ferrybank intermediate team in challenge match's.