Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Straight Talker

deisedude wrote: »

Can't help but feel we blew it big time with that selection. McGrath has taken a team who were All Ireland contenders to also rans in the county

Well Michael Ryan did a lot better with De La Salle then Derek McGrath did but it's irrelevant now Derek McGrath is in the hotseat and hopefully he will be backed fully from day one which let's be honest wasn't the case with Michael Ryan who was a dead man walking from the moment he accepted the job!To be honest i think Waterford (like the way Cork opted for Brian Cuthbert over John Cleary to manage their footballers) didn't hire the best man for the job but it's irrelevant now he needs to be given every support possible to do the job to the best of his ability.He's getting a nice team to take over.Waterford are a very good team from positions 1 to 9.Once you have a strong half back line then that's half the battle and Waterford have that.They have a lot of promising forwards and they might be able to do a better job of building on that minor all ireland win than Limerick did with their u21 all irelands!It's too early to be worrying about next year but as a Cork supporter im not looking any further than that munster first round match.Of course i will be my usual quietly optimistic self but no more than that.Cork fans who are talking about a handy win for Cork mustn't know a lot about hurling and i doubt JBM would buy into that talk either.We'll just wait and see how the league goes on and worry about the big day when it comes.Youghal versus Ardmore this Sunday is more than enough to be worrying about for now!

Straight Talker

Here is some information for anyone planning to go to the match on Sunday.

http://gaacork.ie/taggedNews/285138/99/munster_club_i_h_c:youghal_v_ardmore

hardybuck

Straight Talker wrote: »

To be honest i think Waterford (like the way Cork opted for Brian Cuthbert over John Cleary to manage their footballers) didn't hire the best man for the job but it's irrelevant now he needs to be given every support possible to do the job to the best of his ability.

Members of Cleary's club told me that he had turned down the role. That was a few weeks before Cuthbert was appointed.

alllcounty

Straight Talker wrote: »

Here is some information for anyone planning to go to the match on Sunday.

http://gaacork.ie/taggedNews/285138/99/munster_club_i_h_c:youghal_v_ardmore

Just looking at that link, Waterford intermediate clubs have won 20% of their games since 2000 in munster while Cork have won 63%. Not a pretty picture of where the standard of intermediate club hurling is at in waterford.

seananigans

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/3/2310131946-mcgrath-ratified-as-waterford-hurling-manager/

I know we all know, but it's now official

deisefolife

robopaddy wrote: »

Out of this years minors I can see Stephen Bennett and maybe Austin Gleeson being drafted in. But its still a big jump and I dont see the need to bring in anymore of the minors at this stage.

A big challenge for the new management I feel is to pick the right players. There are a lot of good young players coming through but a slight worry Id have is that a lot of them are at the same level and its hard to distinguish at this point who is better than who or who is worthy of a place in the panel ahead of who. There is a danger you could end up like Galway where they have so many players coming through each year but are all pretty much at a similar level that they can never settle on what their best team/panel is and it has ultimately been their downfall.

Just a thought

why bring them up into senior when they are still minors.
they will be ruined and burnt out by the time their 21. may as well give Kevin Daly a shout for the number 3 while were at it.

robopaddy

deisefolife wrote: »

why bring them up into senior when they are still minors.
they will be ruined and burnt out by the time their 21. may as well give Kevin Daly a shout for the number 3 while were at it.

They are overage for minor in the new year so why not if theyre good enough

glick6

I see Caroline Currid, the psychologist, has said on her twitter feed that she most definitely will not be involved with the team next year.

Wonder how that mix up came about....

Hslaw

I wish them the best of luck.

It's great to have Waterford men at the helm. It's what we've being lacking over the years to have a complete unit. Now if people would just get behind them and give them a chance. We are rebuilding its going to take time.

Look at Clare. 12 months ago you'd have laughed if anyone said they'll be A.I champs of 2013.
And fair play to them it's great for the sport of hurling and great for the county of Clare.

Some day soon that will be us. Deise Abu.

seananigans

Hslaw wrote: »

I wish them the best of luck.

It's great to have Waterford men at the helm. It's what we've being lacking over the years to have a complete unit. Now if people would just get behind them and give them a chance. We are rebuilding its going to take time.

Look at Clare. 12 months ago you'd have laughed if anyone said they'll be A.I champs of 2013.
And fair play to them it's great for the sport of hurling and great for the county of Clare.

Some day soon that will be us. Deise Abu.

I know you used men, but Ryan was great for us,and didn't deserve what happened to him,and it needs to be acknowledged he did great stuff while he was there.

2 years if rebuilding have done wonders, not the complete article yet, but in 2-3 years we could be , the forwards we have will come into their own and the new kids on the clock will be useful in time, but we don;t want another debut of o'halloran againsdt KK in '09 incident, let's keave then cook a bit more before we bring them into a setup they are too young for

Straight Talker

Hslaw wrote: »

I wish them the best of luck.

It's great to have Waterford men at the helm. It's what we've being lacking over the years to have a complete unit. Now if people would just get behind them and give them a chance. We are rebuilding its going to take time.

Look at Clare. 12 months ago you'd have laughed if anyone said they'll be A.I champs of 2013.
And fair play to them it's great for the sport of hurling and great for the county of Clare.

Some day soon that will be us. Deise Abu.

Well that's the thing.The hope.The desire.The dream.Without the hope you have nothing.I remember that league match down in Dungarvan this year in the wind and pissing rain.If you told me that day that Cork would be playing into the last weekend in September and that they would have played their part in two great all ireland finals against a great Clare team, then i would have just laughed in their faces.

cul beag

No return for Mullane but it looks like Kelly is going to be looked at if you you read into Derek McGrath's comments. Interesting!!

Hslaw

seananigans wrote: »

I know you used men, but Ryan was great for us,and didn't deserve what happened to him,and it needs to be acknowledged he did great stuff while he was there.

2 years if rebuilding have done wonders, not the complete article yet, but in 2-3 years we could be , the forwards we have will come into their own and the new kids on the clock will be useful in time, but we don;t want another debut of o'halloran againsdt KK in '09 incident, let's keave then cook a bit more before we bring them into a setup they are too young for

I agree with you 100%.

I chose not to speak about that whole incident anymore. It was the lowest of the low. But what can we do.

seananigans

Hslaw wrote: »

I agree with you 100%.

I chose not to speak about that whole incident anymore. It was the lowest of the low. But what can we do.

no offense to o'halloran,I reckon he himself would admit he was out of his depth ,a 17 y.o. against a serial allstar? madness ,but if you were him would take the callup all the same.

on another note, he said on twitter he's into surgery again tomorrow , he doesn't have the best of luck .

deisedevil

alllcounty wrote: »

He's entitled to his 3 years after Clare won the all ireland. What do you think.

Who said that he wasn't entitled to them?

alllcounty

deisedevil wrote: »

Who said that he wasn't entitled to them?

Follow the discussion and you will find your answer.

robopaddy

seananigans wrote: »

but we don;t want another debut of o'halloran againsdt KK in '09 incident

It was against Tipp in '10 O'Halloran was played unless I'm missing something else. And in fairness he was 19, not 17 as another poster suggested

hardybuck

The U21 is an extremely short season. They struggle to get a full panel out training for what time they have as lads are involved with colleges and the senior panel for a lot of the time.

If a guy in his first year out of minor is getting good quality coaching at third level, which is supplemented with a good U21 setup, there he'll do well with that.

If he is not in a good third level college, he'd be as well brought into the senior panel for training.

Actually, is the U21 job up for grabs now as well now or will Queally go again?

robopaddy

RIP Niall Donoghoe

Hslaw

robopaddy wrote: »

RIP Niall Donoghoe

What happened to him.
So tragic to hear a young life cut short. R.I.P

deisefolife

robopaddy wrote: »

They are overage for minor in the new year so why not if theyre good enough

They probably are good enough. but my point being they are to young. Let them flourish with their own age group, Start them on the U21 team. Or Let them train with the seniors but thats as far as i would go. we have plenty of U21's to use on the pannel. and Bennet older brother is one of them.

robopaddy

deisefolife wrote: »

They probably are good enough. but my point being they are to young. Let them flourish with their own age group, Start them on the U21 team. Or Let them train with the seniors but thats as far as i would go. we have plenty of U21's to use on the pannel. and Bennet older brother is one of them.

I agree with what you are saying. But if a player is good enough and has proven that he is ready to make the step up then why not. Look at Clare this year your man O'Donnell is only out of minor and he scored 3 goals in an All Ireland final (wouldnt have been the most outstanding minor either) and a good few of that team its only their second year out of minor like Tony Kelly, Colm Galvin etc. The game is changing and the gap is closing between minor and senior. A lot of minors now are physically very strong already as they doing strength and conditioning up along and I think other counties will follow Clares lead and start blooding players earlier. Its a young mans game now

hardybuck

I think it is more of a young man's game because students are one of the few groups of people who can commit to the time pressures involved. They, along with professions like teaching, have huge advantages over everybody else.

You don't see 18-20 year olds being the main players, if playing at all, in other contact sports like rugby and soccer.

A 19 year old hurler will probably be able to dedicate a similar amount of time to his game to a 19 year old rugby or soccer player. However, a 27 year old accountant and a 27 year old professional rugby or soccer player will obviously be miles apart.

Hslaw

hardybuck wrote: »

I think it is more of a young man's game because students are one of the few groups of people who can commit to the time pressures involved. They, along with professions like teaching, have huge advantages over everybody else.

You don't see 18-20 year olds being the main players, if playing at all, in other contact sports like rugby and soccer.

A 19 year old hurler will probably be able to dedicate a similar amount of time to his game to a 19 year old rugby or soccer player. However, a 27 year old accountant and a 27 year old professional rugby or soccer player will obviously be miles apart.

And that's why we have young fellas getting double hip operations. It's not their fault. It's from playing and training to much at a young age.
The Gaa should do something about it.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

I think it is more of a young man's game because students are one of the few groups of people who can commit to the time pressures involved. They, along with professions like teaching, have huge advantages over everybody else.

You don't see 18-20 year olds being the main players, if playing at all, in other contact sports like rugby and soccer.

A 19 year old hurler will probably be able to dedicate a similar amount of time to his game to a 19 year old rugby or soccer player. However, a 27 year old accountant and a 27 year old professional rugby or soccer player will obviously be miles apart.

I think you've identified part of it, but I expect teams average ages to rise over the next few years.

I don't see the floods of youngsters the likes of Tipperary, Clare, Ourselves and Limerick have introduced to still be coming in at that volume.

Think the reason you see such young teams now was a reaction to Kilkenný dominance and teams decided the best way to deal with that was sacrifice the short term and give the more talented young players the experience immediately so that in a few years they'll be at a different level. The decline in Kilkenny's performance (and Tipperary's) has coincided maybe a little bit earlier than some might have anticipated.

Giveitfong

hardybuck wrote: »

If a guy in his first year out of minor is getting good quality coaching at third level, which is supplemented with a good U21 setup, there he'll do well with that.

As players in their first year in college are not allowed to play in the Fitzgibbon, they do not play for their colleges in the Waterford Crystal Cup but can play for their counties. Waterford have used a lot of these players in recent years as they are left short of players ironically because so many of the regular panel are also at college and playing for their colleges instead.

There is a need for a player welfare programme in the GAA as many young players are playing simultaneously for their counties, colleges and clubs which places a lot of demands on them, physically and otherwise. This I am sure has something to do with the fact that many of our best young hurlers have experienced serious hip and other injuries in recent years even before they are 21. Off-hand I can think immediately of Philip and Padraic O'Mahony, Darragh Fives and Brian O'Halloran. We need to carefully cultivate our emerging young talent rather than rush them into a very demanding environment before they are ready for it physically.

hardybuck

Hslaw wrote: »

And that's why we have young fellas getting double hip operations. It's not their fault. It's from playing and training to much at a young age.
The Gaa should do something about it.

A lot of the damage in terms of hip impingement is done when guys are in their early teens, when they are still growing. Overuse and the wrong kind of training are to blame. At least coaches now are better qualified a lot of the time and guys aren't just running laps all night.

The current 18-30 generation will probably be guinea pigs in terms of this issue. I expect a lot of people will suffer with it going forward.

hardybuck

Giveitfong wrote: »

As players in their first year in college are not allowed to play in the Fitzgibbon, they do not play for their colleges in the Waterford Crystal Cup but can play for their counties. Waterford have used a lot of these players in recent years as they are left short of players ironically because so many of the regular panel are also at college and playing for their colleges instead.

There is a need for a player welfare programme in the GAA as many young players are playing simultaneously for their counties, colleges and clubs which places a lot of demands on them, physically and otherwise. This I am sure has something to do with the fact that many of our best young hurlers have experienced serious hip and other injuries in recent years even before they are 21. Off-hand I can think immediately of Philip and Padraic O'Mahony, Darragh Fives and Brian O'Halloran. We need to carefully cultivate our emerging young talent rather than rush them into a very demanding environment before they are ready for it physically.

Some of the minor lads will be in first year of college anyway. Freshers hurling is actually pretty decent. I can remember years ago when I played, every starting member had played for one of the top counties.

Hip injuries - you can throw Richie Foley into that gang as well. I can think of at least another half dozen people who I'd know personally and have had hip surgery. It became apparent that I had it myself when another injury flared up a number of years ago. I avoided surgery at the time, but I can't rule it out in the future. I would estimate that a lot of guys mightn't realise that they have an issue now, but it'll crop up at some point as they get older.

noiniho

seananigans wrote: »

I know you used men, but Ryan was great for us,and didn't deserve what happened to him,and it needs to be debut of o'halloran againsdt KK in '09 incident, let's keave then cook a bit more before we bring them into a setup they are too young for

Do you mean O Hallorans debut against Tipp in Croke Park? it didnt work out that day and Davy was the manager.

fast forward four years, in the biggest game of his managerial life, what does Davy do? throw in another 19 year old full forward, who bags 3-3 and they win an All-Ireland.

fair credit to Davy, another manager might have been once bitten twice shy, but to repeat a tight selection call like that in a huge game. that takes some balls

noiniho

seananigans wrote: »

no offense to o'halloran,I reckon he himself would admit he was out of his depth ,a 17 y.o. against a serial allstar? madness ,but if you were him would take the callup all the same.

on another note, he said on twitter he's into surgery again tomorrow , he doesn't have the best of luck .

it was 2010 he had just turned 19. he had come as a sub in the munster final replay in 2010 to make his debut and played very well

hope the operation goes well and he gets to fulfill his undoubted potential in the waterford jersey. It would be a shame for his career to be cut doen in its infancy