Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Mountainlad

deisedude wrote: »

And do you think the current structure is ok?

No it certainly could be better (though is it the outrage it's being made out to be, I'm not convinced that it is) but harping on about it here continously only serves the purpose of giving everybody else a pain in the back of their eyes!

alllcounty

Mountainlad wrote: »

No it certainly could be better (though is it the outrage it's being made out to be, I'm not convinced that it is) but harping on about it here continously only serves the purpose of giving everybody else a pain in the back of their eyes!

The outrage is fully merited. The starting point for any successful team is to have good structues in place for players to develop and reach their potential. If you believe good structures are not all that important and want to accept underachievement then that's your choice. And if I want to harp on about it then I will again and again, so you may aswell go to the doctor now for the pain in the back of your rose tinted eyes.

Mountainlad

alllcounty wrote: »

The outrage is fully merited. The starting point for any successful team is to have good structues in place for players to develop and reach their potential. If you believe good structures are not all that important and want to accept underachievement then that's your choice. And if I want to harp on about it then I will again and again, so you may aswell go to the doctor now for the pain in the back of your rose tinted eyes.

I don't believe I ever said they weren't important. Though I do feel you have some sort of vendetta here, you mention the same two men basically the whole time.

Have you ever confronted them and told them the issues you have? Have you ever brought this up at a Couny Board meeting? I haven't attended a Board meeting but I can only imagine the way to go about change is to bring up this debate and argue you your points. It should be fairly obvious to people that we could improve the structures of our championships.

That would be a far more constructive approach than to just berate Board members. What is that actually going to achieve? Now, I'm not too bothered by that, I would imagine they aren't either given nobody even knows who you are. What annoys me is to read the same thing over, and over again.

Your point was a good one initially, you may even have the solution (don't know have I seen a comprehensive plan from you but I'm sure you have one) but to keep presenting the same thing in a such a whiny manner gets pretty tedious.

alllcounty

Mountainlad wrote: »

I don't believe I ever said they weren't important. Though I do feel you have some sort of vendetta here, you mention the same two men basically the whole time.

Have you ever confronted them and told them the issues you have? Have you ever brought this up at a Couny Board meeting? I haven't attended a Board meeting but I can only imagine the way to go about change is to bring up this debate and argue you your points. It should be fairly obvious to people that we could improve the structures of our championships.

That would be a far more constructive approach than to just berate Board members. What is that actually going to achieve? Now, I'm not too bothered by that, I would imagine they aren't either given nobody even knows who you are. What annoys me is to read the same thing over, and over again.

Your point was a good one initially, you may even have the solution (don't know have I seen a comprehensive plan from you but I'm sure you have one) but to keep presenting the same thing in a such a whiny manner gets pretty tedious.

No vendetta, these 2 have been the most vocal and most public in their stance to improving these grades, they are also highest up on the divisional board so these 2 are the best people to direct criticism. I have no intention of confronting face to face or bringing this up at a county board. I work in a professional job and have no intention of bringing attention to me or my employer. I choose to berate them instead. What it achieves is it highlights the issue on a regular basis and in time it may put pressure on the county board to release the strategic plan that has been blocked up till now. And for your annoyance I couldn't give a fu*k what way you feel, this is an issue worth pursuing even if it is only on a waterford gaa discussion forum on boards.ie.

Mountainlad

alllcounty wrote: »

No vendetta, these 2 have been the most vocal and most public in their stance to improving these grades, they are also highest up on the divisional board so these 2 are the best people to direct criticism. I have no intention of confronting face to face or bringing this up at a county board. I work in a professional job and have no intention of bringing attention to me or my employer. I choose to berate them instead. What it achieves is it highlights the issue on a regular basis and in time it may put pressure on the county board to release the strategic plan that has been blocked up till now. And for your annoyance I couldn't give a fu*k what way you feel, this is an issue worth pursuing even if it is only on a waterford gaa discussion forum on boards.ie.

And tell me, how much progress have we made in the 3 years since you first raised the issue here on Boards?

alllcounty

Mountainlad wrote: »

And tell me, how much progress have we made in the 3 years since you first raised the issue here on Boards?

The issue has been raised every year at the county board agm in December and every year they had to give some form of excuse. So at least it has not been forgotten about like some would like it to be. Do you have anything else to add or query.

alllcounty

Straight Talker wrote: »

I think Seamus Keating was the fella i was on about earlier.I was very impressed with him today.He plays rugby with Cork Con though and he's played a few underage matches with Munster so it's look like ye could be losing a prospect there similar to the way we lost Darren Sweetnam.

Yes that's his name alright. I watched him play in the waterford western final a few weeks ago and he was by far the best player on the field. At the moment our county team lacks a half forward that can both win ball in the air and score on the run. He has the height, physicality and ability to strike a ball over the bar from distance while on the run. He is only 19 and can only get better but if he were to choose hurling then I have no doubt in saying he will make the waterford starting 15 in the coming years and would be a huge addition in the half forwards. But similar to Darren Sweetnam I fear he will choose rugby and if he does I hope it works out, as for any sportsplayer to be paid for what you enjoy playing becomes an easy decision in the end.

Cake Man

Just saw Na Piarsigh of Limerick beat Loughmore/Castleiney yesterday in the Munster club QF and will now play Passage in the semi up above in the Gaelic Grounds on Sunday week.

How do people think they will do? I ask from the point of view that will Passage be happy enough with their lot with a first county title and have little interest?
There have been a good few clubs around Munster that have won their first county titles in the last few years (or first in a long while), I'm thinking Carrigtwohill in Cork, Drom & Inch in Tipp and Clonlara/Cratloe and Newmarket in Clare. None of which really went on to give Munster a rattle. Na Piarsigh probably being the exception winning Limerick and Munster in 2011.

Will be tough going to win up there I'd say and Na Piarsigh seem a decent outfit but hopefully Passage can go all the way.

KevIRL

Cake Man wrote: »

Just saw Na Piarsigh of Limerick beat Loughmore/Castleiney yesterday in the Munster club QF and will now play Passage in the semi up above in the Gaelic Grounds on Sunday week.

How do people think they will do? I ask from the point of view that will Passage be happy enough with their lot with a first county title and have little interest?
There have been a good few clubs around Munster that have won their first county titles in the last few years (or first in a long while), I'm thinking Carrigtwohill in Cork, Drom & Inch in Tipp and Clonlara/Cratloe and Newmarket in Clare. None of which really went on to give Munster a rattle. Na Piarsigh probably being the exception winning Limerick and Munster in 2011.

Will be tough going to win up there I'd say and Na Piarsigh seem a decent outfit but hopefully Passage can go all the way.

Passage without Noel and Owen Connors I believe also as they are out of the country.

Hard to see Passage win it alright, but here's hoping

Crusty Blaa

Noel and Tommy Connors are missing, going back to OZ. Big losses and Passage will be doing well to keep the scoreline close. I don't think Owen Connors is away.

Mountainlad

Na Piarsaigh really aren't great but at the same time I'm not so sure Passage are either.

And while they'll give it their best shot, doubt they have the hunger to win this that De La Salle have had. Poor enough Munster championship this year by all accounts.

KevIRL

Crusty Blaa wrote: »

Noel and Tommy Connors are missing, going back to OZ. Big losses and Passage will be doing well to keep the scoreline close. I don't think Owen Connors is away.

Sorry, wrong Connors.

The blue blaa

KevIRL wrote: »

Sorry, wrong Connors.

Could be wrong now but I'm almost certain tommy has stayed for while longer an will be playin for passage in against Na Piarsaigh sunday week.

robopaddy

So lads Derek McGrath and his management team now that its been officially ratified. Whats the general consensus around home? Seems to be a mixed reaction on here.

My feeling is that we have have to trust that the right decision was made and need to give this thing time. And certainly more patience than Michael Ryan was afforded.

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

So lads Derek McGrath and his management team now that its been officially ratified. Whats the general consensus around home? Seems to be a mixed reaction on here.

My feeling is that we have have to trust that the right decision was made and need to give this thing time. And certainly more patience than Michael Ryan was afforded.

Well from the get-go, McGrath seems to have built a far stronger backroom team than Ryan did. This should be a big help, Ryan's setup was all over the place in his first few months in particular.

Crusty Blaa

Apparently McGrath's interview and 3 year plan was extremely impressive. Hope it works out for him.

Deskjockey

Think the decision has been made now, we had two good candidates with previous managerial experience (glad to see the CB avoiding the appointment of a previous star player with no experience), one person has been chosen now, ( maybe Peter Queally will get a turn in a few years time) good to see in any case a Waterford man get the job who will have the passion to see us succeed, I think we are past all that East West bull**** that might have gone on years ago.

Derek McGrath has worked with a good number of the current panel in his successful run with DLS school. I think we all need to get behind him and the team, he will be bursting himself to leave no stone unturned to get the best out of this bunch of young players, and with a bit of luck you never know what might happen.

Up the Deise and roll on 2014

seananigans

Deskjockey wrote: »

Think the decision has been made now, we had two good candidates with previous managerial experience (glad to see the CB avoiding the appointment of a previous star player with no experience),

Thought this was called a steve staunton ?

alllcounty

It was an inside job from the very begining and only Derek was going to get that job. When Derek McGrath's former school pupils organised that meeting in the Ramada on the 11th August, just 2 hours before the waterford minors were to take to the field in Croke Park it was always pointing towards Derek to replace the current management. I hope it doesn't back fire on him and on his former pupils as what they have done will not be forgotten. He does have good lads helping him with Frankie Flannery training the team and Willie Maher keeping an eye on him. However if they were to leave after a year then we are screwed. It will be like DLS this year only next time the stakes will be alot higher. So for his sake and for the good of the county I hope he can pull it off.

Limestone1

alllcounty wrote: »

It was an inside job from the very begining and only Derek was going to get that job. When Derek McGrath's former school pupils organised that meeting in the Ramada on the 11th August, just 2 hours before the waterford minors were to take to the field in Croke Park it was always pointing towards Derek to replace the current management.

Sounds like it was all plotted and mapped out 5 years ago in a Waterford school classroom ? I wonder if they did any politics - maybe in a few years time after wrapping up a few all-irelands , they plan to take over running the country from Enda ?

robopaddy

alllcounty wrote: »

It was an inside job from the very begining and only Derek was going to get that job. When Derek McGrath's former school pupils organised that meeting in the Ramada on the 11th August, just 2 hours before the waterford minors were to take to the field in Croke Park it was always pointing towards Derek to replace the current management. I hope it doesn't back fire on him and on his former pupils as what they have done will not be forgotten. He does have good lads helping him with Frankie Flannery training the team and Willie Maher keeping an eye on him. However if they were to leave after a year then we are screwed. It will be like DLS this year only next time the stakes will be alot higher. So for his sake and for the good of the county I hope he can pull it off.

You make some very good and articulated points on this forum.

But that post my friend is absolute scutter

lovelypoint

Crusty Blaa wrote: »

Cheers Kev, sounds like it's well worth the cash. Xmas present for the father written all over it. Sorry for hounding but any idea how I go about purchasing?

If you do go that route, and the father goes to matches with someone else regularly, it used to be a nightmare to get seats next to your match buddy, unless anything has changed. KevIRL gives a good pitch for the scheme, but unless things have changed, the administration has been a real disaster at times with the scheme, something I say with experience of being a season ticket holder for the first two or three years of the scheme.

alllcounty

Limestone1 wrote: »

Sounds like it was all plotted and mapped out 5 years ago in a Waterford school classroom ? I wonder if they did any politics - maybe in a few years time after wrapping up a few all-irelands , they plan to take over running the country from Enda ?

I detect a hint of sarcasm. Was it a surprise of all the people that have trained county teams over the years, it was a man that had no experience managing a county team that was the number 1 favourite with the bookies to become the next waterford manager. He was the players choice when they held that meeting and it was 11 players that turned up for that meeting. Not hard to narrow those 11 down. Any way whats done is done, now they must prove all this back stabing was worth it.

Mountainlad

alllcounty wrote: »

I detect a hint of sarcasm. Was it a surprise of all the people that have trained county teams over the years, it was a man that had no experience managing a county team that was the number 1 favourite with the bookies to become the next waterford manager. He was the players choice when they held that meeting and it was 11 players that turned up for that meeting. Not hard to narrow those 11 down. Any way whats done is done, now they must prove all this back stabing was worth it.

Queally doesn't have experience managing an inter-county team. Michael Ryan didn't have experience. Davy didn't have experience.

I don't believe Eamon O'Shea ever managed a County team. Brian Cody had never managed a County team. Liam Dunne had never managed a County team.

There is a point in everyone's life where they have never managed a County team. That doesn't mean they shouldn't get the chance.


EDIT: I can't take that thumbs down away, I accidentally clicked it when I was trying to post.

alllcounty

Mountainlad wrote: »

Queally doesn't have experience managing an inter-county team. Michael Ryan didn't have experience. Davy didn't have experience.

I don't believe Eamon O'Shea ever managed a County team. Brian Cody had never managed a County team. Liam Dunne had never managed a County team.

There is a point in everyone's life where they have never managed a County team. That doesn't mean they shouldn't get the chance.


EDIT: I can't take that thumbs down away, I accidentally clicked it when I was trying to post.

The original point I made was that it was an inside job. My argument was not that he should not get it because of lack of previous experience, it was his name was the favourite from the very start and why that was. Did he have a part to play in getting the players to meet to force out the prior management team. It does not look right.

KevIRL

lovelypoint wrote: »

If you do go that route, and the father goes to matches with someone else regularly, it used to be a nightmare to get seats next to your match buddy, unless anything has changed. KevIRL gives a good pitch for the scheme, but unless things have changed, the administration has been a real disaster at times with the scheme, something I say with experience of being a season ticket holder for the first two or three years of the scheme.

Has improved a lot LP. You can login and book the friends ticket online now. They send notification when it must be done by over email and then you have a few days to sort it out and get online to book.

Mountainlad

alllcounty wrote: »

The original point I made was that it was an inside job. My argument was not that he should not get it because of lack of previous experience, it was his name was the favourite from the very start and why that was. Did he have a part to play in getting the players to meet to force out the prior management team. It does not look right.

His name was favourite because it was believed he was who the players wanted. At least that was what I heard, bookies probably heard the same.

They would have been smart enough to realize that Waterford weren't likely to be able to attract a manager with previous managerial experience, such as Donal O'Grady and Liam Sheedy who's names are bandied about as soon as any job opens.

From what I heard, Derek McGrath wasn't even sure at the time whether to put his name forward or not. It's not surprising given his work with the players in De La Salle college and school that he's a popular choice amongst them. Nothing more.

Think now that he's been appointed it's time to get behind as others have said. I have no doubt you would have made the same argument when Michael Ryan was appointed, and there's no doubt he got a completely raw deal from some quarters from day 1. But just because some of those same people that gave him such a hard time, are no backing Derek McGrath doesn't mean McGrath doesn't deserve the same chance Michael Ryan should have gotten.

alllcounty

Mountainlad wrote: »

His name was favourite because it was believed he was who the players wanted. At least that was what I heard, bookies probably heard the same.

They would have been smart enough to realize that Waterford weren't likely to be able to attract a manager with previous managerial experience, such as Donal O'Grady and Liam Sheedy who's names are bandied about as soon as any job opens.

From what I heard, Derek McGrath wasn't even sure at the time whether to put his name forward or not. It's not surprising given his work with the players in De La Salle college and school that he's a popular choice amongst them. Nothing more.

Think now that he's been appointed it's time to get behind as others have said. I have no doubt you would have made the same argument when Michael Ryan was appointed, and there's no doubt he got a completely raw deal from some quarters from day 1. But just because some of those same people that gave him such a hard time, are no backing Derek McGrath doesn't mean McGrath doesn't deserve the same chance Michael Ryan should have gotten.

Ok the players wanted Derek McGrath from the begining, we agree on that. I do believe Derek wanted the waterford job even though he didn't let on and waited until DLS were out of the championship before he put his name forward. Yes he deserves a chance now as he is starting a new role as manager of the county team. My worry would be is he the right man to get the best out of what he has available and to instill a belief in the panel over the next 3 years. We have seen crazy decisions from him this year such as placing Mullane midfield when he came back from injury where he was dead on his feet, placing the Bull full forward, taking him off and back on again, hitting high ball into the forwards where players are bunching on top of each other and no movement or direct fast ball in the forwards.

The 2 people I mentioned earlier as part of his backroom team are top men. But it is he who is manager and he has the final say, I dont rate him myself based on what I have seen and hoping that the backroom team can make up for those weaknesses is a sizable risk. Ok I may be too hard on him but I still think he would have let it be known to the players before that meeting that he would go for the job if it came up and if true, it would have influenced the players in calling that meeting.

doublejj

mcgrath deserves go as did peter queally.....both wanted it...peter quelly im my opinion edged it but my opinion..

Deskjockey

seananigans wrote: »

Thought this was called a steve staunton ?

Occasionally a Steve Staunton / Roy Keane appointment ends up being a Kenny Dalgliesh :-)