Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

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Straight Talker

Black Suir wrote: »

I don't know where Darragh is coming from when he says Waterford under achieved under Michael Ryan. If anything they over achieved. The two years he was in charge, Waterford were written off in the league. The first year they did have a lucky escape but the change of selectors half way through the league saved them. This year Waterford went into the last game in the league on top of the table, and missed out on a semi final place because of the defeat to Galway. In the Championship in 2012 Waterford reached the Munster Final, where they put up a much better performance against Tipp than they did 12 months earlier when they got hammered, maybe Waterford most embarrassing defeat ever, with Davy Fitz over the team who some believed to be some sort of God, and who believe he is an even greater person now after managing Clare this year to the All-Ireland. This year in the Championship, Waterford took on Kilkenny and put up our best performance against them in the championship since 1959. Some would say that had John Mullane be involved with the side this year Waterford would have beaten Kilkenny. Maybe they could, but Stephen Molumphy was an even greater loss. To say that the team are under no greater pressure to win in 2014 is a BS. After the players ousted Michael Ryan the way they did, just as the 08 panel did with Justin (who I believe should have stepped down of his own accord at the end of 07), many Waterford supporters will be looking to the Waterford players to justify the move they made, just as they did in 08, where for Waterford reaching the All-Ireland was a must for most fans after the ousting of Justin.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/fives-expects-deise-to-sparkle-in-2014-253014.html

Excellent post and i have to say it's disappointing to see that one of the panel members is starting to stick the knife into Michael Ryan and twist it now.The facts are that there was an agenda against Michael Ryan from day one from certain quarters.I felt that the man was placed under unnecessary pressure after a few league defeats at the start of his tenure.In the 2012 championship Waterford beat a Clare team that won the all ireland this year and they were a lot closer against Tipp in the munster final than what the final scoreline would suggest.Look at the quarter final against ourselves that year.That was a 50 50 game but we emptied out the bench and our lads put in a strong surge in the last few minutes to snatch the win.It took a monster point by Sean Og to settle us down and get us over the line when Waterford were chasing a draw.Brian Murphy also took John Mullane out of it in the last few seconds when a goal for Waterford was on!That was a blatant free in but then again i suppose you could say Waterford had dodgy last second frees to get the draw in their drawn championship matches with Cork in 2007 and 2010.However you need that bit of luck and Michael Ryan and his team didn't get it there.

This year Waterford were supposed to be a shoe in for relegation in the league yet they nearly made the semi finals.Darragh Fives seems to be putting all the blame on Michael Ryan when it was a lack of firepower that was Waterfords undoing in the championship this year.Waterford had more than enough chances to beat Clare and they would have taken Kilkenny out this year if they had enough firepower up front.The way Waterford played that night was a real credit to Michael Ryan.Waterford should have won that match in normal time and then they would have been playing Cork in the quarter final and to be honest i was glad that our lads played a tired and shattered Kilkenny team as opposed to a Waterford team with momentum and the revenge factor on their side!I have kept silent about this because i felt that there was no point in bringing this up.What's done was done etc but you just have to open your mouth when you read things like that.Of course im well aware that we have had our own controversies in Cork over the years with regards to players getting out managers.Truth be told i backed the Cork players in all their disputes with the county board even if i don't think they were faultless and impeccable at all times with their conduct.I also thought that the Waterford players in 2008 were right to demand that Justin step down but i can't agree with what happened to Michael Ryan and Darragh Fives should have shown a bit more class and respect to him than what he showed in that interview.

robopaddy

Straight Talker wrote: »

Excellent post and i have to say it's disappointing to see that one of the panel members is starting to stick the knife into Michael Ryan and twist it now.The facts are that there was an agenda against Michael Ryan from day one from certain quarters.I felt that the man was placed under unnecessary pressure after a few league defeats at the start of his tenure.In the 2012 championship Waterford beat a Clare team that won the all ireland this year and they were a lot closer against Tipp in the munster final than what the final scoreline would suggest.Look at the quarter final against ourselves that year.That was a 50 50 game but we emptied out the bench and our lads put in a strong surge in the last few minutes to snatch the win.It took a monster point by Sean Og to settle us down and get us over the line when Waterford were chasing a draw.Brian Murphy also took John Mullane out of it in the last few seconds when a goal for Waterford was on!That was a blatant free in but then again i suppose you could say Waterford had dodgy last second frees to get the draw in their drawn championship matches with Cork in 2007 and 2010.However you need that bit of luck and Michael Ryan and his team didn't get it there.

This year Waterford were supposed to be a shoe in for relegation in the league yet they nearly made the semi finals.Darragh Fives seems to be putting all the blame on Michael Ryan when it was a lack of firepower that was Waterfords undoing in the championship this year.Waterford had more than enough chances to beat Clare and they would have taken Kilkenny out this year if they had enough firepower up front.The way Waterford played that night was a real credit to Michael Ryan.Waterford should have won that match in normal time and then they would have been playing Cork in the quarter final and to be honest i was glad that our lads played a tired and shattered Kilkenny team as opposed to a Waterford team with momentum and the revenge factor on their side!I have kept silent about this because i felt that there was no point in bringing this up.What's done was done etc but you just have to open your mouth when you read things like that.Of course im well aware that we have had our own controversies in Cork over the years with regards to players getting out managers.Truth be told i backed the Cork players in all their disputes with the county board even if i don't think they were faultless and impeccable at all times with their conduct.I also thought that the Waterford players in 2008 were right to demand that Justin step down but i can't agree with what happened to Michael Ryan and Darragh Fives should have shown a bit more class and respect to him than what he showed in that interview.

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. All the lad was saying was that he didnt think they did themselves justice last year so they are raring to kick on this year. Theres no one sticking the knife in anywhere as for pressure I think in media circles there probably will be pressure on them. But someone like darragh obviously has his own bar set fairly high and that is all positive.

dzilla

Well said, and well said by Darragh. I can't understand how we can say we overachieved by beating Westmeath and Offaly and push KK (but lost). That is not a good return and the players know that and thats what I interpreted from the article.

Straight Talker

robopaddy wrote: »

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. All the lad was saying was that he didnt think they did themselves justice last year so they are raring to kick on this year. Theres no one sticking the knife in anywhere as for pressure I think in media circles there probably will be pressure on them. But someone like darragh obviously has his own bar set fairly high and that is all positive.

Im all for setting standards and raising the bar as high as possible be it in sport and life in general but in the context of how Michael Ryans tenure ended up the comments do have an element of it was the managers fault for the way things turned out not the players.Of course if you don't have the confidence of the players then you are at nothing but i just fail to see that there was a 1 point difference between Michael Ryan being considered the most useless numbskull going and the second coming of our lord.We don't know what goes on behind closed doors obviously but i felt that Darragh could have spoken a bit more graciously about Michael Ryan.It came across to me that a misfiring forward line cost Waterford against Clare and Kilkenny in the championship this year as opposed to managerial failings.The two championship games that Waterford lost could easily have been turned into wins with a bit more accuracy up front.

alllcounty

robopaddy wrote: »

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. All the lad was saying was that he didnt think they did themselves justice last year so they are raring to kick on this year. Theres no one sticking the knife in anywhere as for pressure I think in media circles there probably will be pressure on them.

No where in that article did it say "he didnt think they did themselves justice last year".

What Darragh did say in that article was "We had a good few years with him (Ryan) and we didn’t achieve"

That's a disgraceful thing from him to say. I was very happy with the way the team was performing under him. We had moved away from Davy Fitz style of hurling of been overly defensive and were making better use of the ball. If anything we overachieved considering the players Ryan had at his disposal. We lacked 3 quality forwards that other counties had to make an impact and we still managed to be in the top 4 in the country in the league and put in decent displays in the championship. That's a back stabbing article. They better cop themselves on this year and deliver on the field or there will be questions asked of them and their treatment of the prior management team.

thinkstoomuch1

Straight Talker wrote: »

Im all for setting standards and raising the bar as high as possible be it in sport and life in general but in the context of how Michael Ryans tenure ended up the comments do have an element of it was the managers fault for the way things turned out not the players.Of course if you don't have the confidence of the players then you are at nothing but i just fail to see that there was a 1 point difference between Michael Ryan being considered the most useless numbskull going and the second coming of our lord.We don't know what goes on behind closed doors obviously but i felt that Darragh could have spoken a bit more graciously about Michael Ryan.It came across to me that a misfiring forward line cost Waterford against Clare and Kilkenny in the championship this year as opposed to managerial failings.The two championship games that Waterford lost could easily have been turned into wins with a bit more accuracy up front.

Fives were one hundred per cent right in what he said.I can never understand why players are heavily criticsed for just speaking the views openly and honesty.He is setting down a marker,saying what needs to be done and their are no hiding places next year.


I would admire hes balls,honesty and courage for calling a spade a spade.He is playing the game,training every night,they see what goes on with the manager every time.


Whatever the rights and wrongs of ryans having to go,the fact remains that he had a chance ,two year term,players felt he had been given a chance,but he wasnt the man to take them further.Players after all bust their balls,six nights a week to win.


You cant read too much in to a one point loss as great.Days of counties taking them as moral victories,lets have a party,a singsong,are gone ,and thank god.


When you loose whatever the margin,their is always a reason.If ryan was as good as you make him out to be,they would have beaten clare this year ,and Cork last year when they had us on the rocks.


A manager can make a huge difference.I always hate this rubbish that we lost,but we could have easily just as won.You loose,normally for a reason.
Cork have accepted that rubbish we lost,but could have just easily won ,with the minors and u21 the last four years,and look where it got us.

Denish walsh was a rubbish manager with Cork ,beat Tipp in Munster,and kilkenny drew in kk ,but that doesnt make him great.You judge over two years,not two games.


Fives dont forget plays with Ucc,and that set up is as good as any intercounty set up.So its quite natural,when he plays their at just college level,he would compare with hes own set up .


Cork havent been short players critiicsing managers in the past and we should be thankful they did,as in every case they were right.Okay their are exceptions,but normally when a player criticises a manager with no great record I tend to listen.


Fives was right in what he said.To win,you must have the right attuide.

Straight Talker

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fives were one hundred per cent right in what he said.I can never understand why players are heavily criticsed for just speaking the views openly and honesty.He is setting down a marker,saying what needs to be done and their are no hiding places next year.


I would admire hes balls,honesty and courage for calling a spade a spade.He is playing the game,training every night,they see what goes on with the manager every time.


Whatever the rights and wrongs of ryans having to go,the fact remains that he had a chance ,two year term,players felt he had been given a chance,but he wasnt the man to take them further.Players after all bust their balls,six nights a week to win.


You cant read too much in to a one point loss as great.Days of counties taking them as moral victories,lets have a party,a singsong,are gone ,and thank god.


When you loose whatever the margin,their is always a reason.If ryan was as good as you make him out to be,they would have beaten clare this year ,and Cork last year when they had us on the rocks.


A manager can make a huge difference.I always hate this rubbish that we lost,but we could have easily just as won.You loose,normally for a reason.
Cork have accepted that rubbish we lost,but could have just easily won ,with the minors and u21 the last four years,and look where it got us.

Denish walsh was a rubbish manager with Cork ,beat Tipp in Munster,and kilkenny drew in kk ,but that doesnt make him great.You judge over two years,not two games.


Fives dont forget plays with Ucc,and that set up is as good as any intercounty set up.So its quite natural,when he plays their at just college level,he would compare with hes own set up .


Cork havent been short players critiicsing managers in the past and we should be thankful they did,as in every case they were right.Okay their are exceptions,but normally when a player criticises a manager with no great record I tend to listen.


Fives was right in what he said.To win,you must have the right attuide.

We will have to agree to disagree there!I felt that a lack of firepower in the forwards was Waterfords main problem under Michael Ryan.I personally feel that he was hung out to dry and made a scapegoat by the players and in that interview.Remember now that as soon as he took the job there was elements trying to force him out.

alllcounty

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fives were one hundred per cent right in what he said.I can never understand why players are heavily criticsed for just speaking the views openly and honesty.He is setting down a marker,saying what needs to be done and their are no hiding places next year.


I would admire hes balls,honesty and courage for calling a spade a spade.He is playing the game,training every night,they see what goes on with the manager every time.


Whatever the rights and wrongs of ryans having to go,the fact remains that he had a chance ,two year term,players felt he had been given a chance,but he wasnt the man to take them further.Players after all bust their balls,six nights a week to win.


You cant read too much in to a one point loss as great.Days of counties taking them as moral victories,lets have a party,a singsong,are gone ,and thank god.


When you loose whatever the margin,their is always a reason.If ryan was as good as you make him out to be,they would have beaten clare this year ,and Cork last year when they had us on the rocks.


A manager can make a huge difference.I always hate this rubbish that we lost,but we could have easily just as won.You loose,normally for a reason.
Cork have accepted that rubbish we lost,but could have just easily won ,with the minors and u21 the last four years,and look where it got us.

Denish walsh was a rubbish manager with Cork ,beat Tipp in Munster,and kilkenny drew in kk ,but that doesnt make him great.You judge over two years,not two games.


Fives dont forget plays with Ucc,and that set up is as good as any intercounty set up.So its quite natural,when he plays their at just college level,he would compare with hes own set up .


Cork havent been short players critiicsing managers in the past and we should be thankful they did,as in every case they were right.Okay their are exceptions,but normally when a player criticises a manager with no great record I tend to listen.


Fives was right in what he said.To win,you must have the right attuide.

He can speak and state his views. Because he is a player should not mean he is exempt from criticism like anyone else especially when he say’s something that doesn’t hold up.

Moral victories is one thing but the performances of the team over a period of 2 years is another thing and to say we underachieved during that period is false.

Clare have players in their team with all Ireland U21 medals won 3 times in the last 5 years. Do we have players in our team with multiple U21 all ireland’s. We beat them in the championship last year and in the league this year. We hit too many wides in this year’s championship and that cost us but we were set upto win and were creating scoring opportunities.

Against Cork we played well but didn’t have enough fire power up front. The team was well prepared, they gave their best but we simply didn’t have enough quality forwards. The management did their job to the best of their abilities and they could not have been faulted.

Cork’s problem is ye didn’t put the structures in place to maintain a constant supply of quality players and that is why ye have not been as successful compared to your history.

Yes I am judging over 2 years and over that period I was very happy.

If he criticises a manager then how can he also say there is no pressure on them to deliver. If he was right to have a pop at the prior management team then they better back up those words with actions in 2014.

kerrrBLAHHH

As an aside is Daragh Fives transferring clubs this year?

Black Suir

deiseach wrote: »

In fairness to Darragh Fives, he's never going to say otherwise. Why would any sportsperson say anything other than nice things about the incumbent? Unless you were out to cause trouble...

No need to put down a man either that was in the job by saying something that was not true. How many of the present Man Utd squad would say that they under achieved under Sir Alex.

thinkstoomuch1

alllcounty wrote: »

He can speak and state his views. Because he is a player should not mean he is exempt from criticism like anyone else especially when he say’s somethingthat doesn’t hold up.

Moral victories is one thing but the performances of the team over a periodof 2 years is another thing and to say we underachieved during that period isfalse.

Clare have players in their team with all Ireland U21 medals won 3 times inthe last 5 years. Do we have players in our team with multiple U21 all ireland’s.We beat them in the championship last year and in the league this year. We hittoo many wides in this year’s championship and that cost us but we were set upto win and were creating scoring opportunities.

Against Cork we played well but didn’t have enough fire power up front. Theteam was well prepared, they gave their best but we simply didn’t have enoughquality forwards. The management did their job to the best of their abilities andthey could not have been faulted.

Cork’s problem is ye didn’t put the structures in place to maintain aconstant supply of quality players and that is why ye have not been assuccessful compared to your history.

Yes I am judging over 2 years and over that period I was very happy.

If he criticises a manager then how can he also say there is no pressure onthem to deliver. If he was right to have a pop at the prior management team thenthey better back up those words with actions in 2014.

Hes record coming in to waterford was excellent in ladies football,won with 3 different teams and he done well with de la salle.He will have no bother getting a job,and im sure clubs in east cork and waterford have him on the radar.

My point is he had a two year term ,and the players felt it wasnt working.Now I agree ,that the players are in a corner in that they have to perform next year,as they are no hiding places.But ,this year they felt that he wasnt the man for them.
And you are right when you say he cant say their not under pressure to perform.
They made a statement they got back up.But that could prove they have resilent and backbone.Its now them against the world in a sense,their own fans will lay down the law if they dont perform.

That fear and adversity could be just what they need.Cork used the strikes to their advantage in 2003 and with the footballers.
Limerick turned a corner after their last trouble.Justin mac had a good record but limerick didnt buy in to him.If the players dont believe in a manager its a lost cause.



He had two years and ,heavily beaten by Tippeary,then us.We were well behind ye in 2012 and we werent exactly an unbeatable team then.

This year ,Clare and kilkenny beat ye.
I wouldnt list Offaly and Westmeath as ,ye should be beating them,and I wouldnt get carried away with those wins.
I just can see where the players came from,to wonder is he the man for them.If and it seems like it,the belief in him was not fully their,then they were right to want a new man ,as if the players dont believe in the manager you are beaten before you start.Two years is time to see real progress with a team,and I can see why the players questioned another term.
One real championship win in two years isnt great.


Cork had way more problems this year,a depleted squad ,no real subs up front ,and we won 3 main games,drew one and were well in it up to half time with limerick.



I have talked to cork players since,and I asked what made cork get so far.The answer was jbm,and management they had a belief in them .Great managers inspire players to better than what they are.


As regards cork,i do agree that their hasnt been the required work put in underage the last few years.That has changed.
But the talent was there and even in u21 in 2011 had a team capable of winning the all ireland but hadnt a chance with Ger fitzgerald,teddy maccarthy etc.Two wins in four years is woeful.


The minors were the best talent in years ,won at u15,lost to limerick(current minor team)and won u17 this year ,loads of talent.Problem was a manager that doesnt know he's arse from hes elbow in terms of managing a team.

He even had yere current trainer,flannery a good coach with him and he still made a balls of the minor team the last two years.


And the u21 team this year has loads of talent .When you have forwards like Cadogan,callaghan,cahalane to name but a few tells you the talent is their.


On a side note,James O connor has left carrigtwohill.A great coach,to get that carrig team to win a county was unreal.
Be interesting if he gets a job in waterford now.

Black Suir

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fives were one hundred per cent right in what he said.I can never understand why players are heavily criticsed for just speaking the views openly and honesty.He is setting down a marker,saying what needs to be done and their are no hiding places next year.


I would admire hes balls,honesty and courage for calling a spade a spade.He is playing the game,training every night,they see what goes on with the manager every time.


Whatever the rights and wrongs of ryans having to go,the fact remains that he had a chance ,two year term,players felt he had been given a chance,but he wasnt the man to take them further.Players after all bust their balls,six nights a week to win.


You cant read too much in to a one point loss as great.Days of counties taking them as moral victories,lets have a party,a singsong,are gone ,and thank god.


When you loose whatever the margin,their is always a reason.If ryan was as good as you make him out to be,they would have beaten clare this year ,and Cork last year when they had us on the rocks.


A manager can make a huge difference.I always hate this rubbish that we lost,but we could have easily just as won.You loose,normally for a reason.
Cork have accepted that rubbish we lost,but could have just easily won ,with the minors and u21 the last four years,and look where it got us.

Denish walsh was a rubbish manager with Cork ,beat Tipp in Munster,and kilkenny drew in kk ,but that doesnt make him great.You judge over two years,not two games.


Fives dont forget plays with Ucc,and that set up is as good as any intercounty set up.So its quite natural,when he plays their at just college level,he would compare with hes own set up .


Cork havent been short players critiicsing managers in the past and we should be thankful they did,as in every case they were right.Okay their are exceptions,but normally when a player criticises a manager with no great record I tend to listen.


Fives was right in what he said.To win,you must have the right attuide.

How many wides did Waterford hit against Clare in that game, and of them, how many did Michael Ryan hit. There was a reason why Waterford did not win games against the likes of Clare and Kilkenny. All year we were hitting a high amount of wides. Against Offaly and Westmeath there was also a fair deal of wides but we were lucky that these two sides are a fair bit away from the standard to win the Liam McCarthy.

3ships

how many scores did michael ryan hit

alllcounty

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

They made a statement they got back up.But that could prove they have resilent and backbone.Its now them against the world in a sense,their own fans will lay down the law if they dont perform.
He had two years and ,heavily beaten by Tippeary,then us.We were well behind ye in 2012 and we werent exactly an unbeatable team then.

Can you jog my memory. When did we get heavily beaten by Tipperary. Was it 2011 when we were beaten by 7 goals in the munster final. If so then he was not manager then. Also when did we get heavily beaten by Cork???Also they didn't release a statement if that is what you are referring to. They held a badly organised meeting and then hid like cowards. How is that showing backbone???

Black Suir

3ships wrote: »

how many scores did michael ryan hit

A little less than the amount of wides the forwards hit.

thinkstoomuch1

alllcounty wrote: »

Can you jog my memory. When did we get heavily beaten by Tipperary. Was it 2011 when we were beaten by 7 goals in the munster final. If so then he was not manager then. Also when did we get heavily beaten by Cork???Also they didn't release a statement if that is what you are referring to. They held a badly organised meeting and then hid like cowards. How is that showing backbone???

Apologies he wasnt their in 2011.
Didnt say cork beat ye heavily.As I said in previous post,ye were in control against us ,and should have won.
When teams loose games like that ,does not shine brightly on the manager.

The timing I agree was wrong,but they showed plenty of backbone in going against the appointment of him for a new term.The players clearly felt they had given him a two year term,and he didnt impress.What do they do,keep their mouths shut,and play away for the risk of upsetting people.There the guys playing,and they deserve every possible chance to win silverware.


He had two years and no real,real progress was made.Time for a change.
Players arent fools,their going to college with other intercounty players and hear how their standards are when their
when they compare to others.


Players at the end of day make the most sacfries,sore bodies,huge pressure,injuries that could cause them problems long after they retire ,familles ,social life all take a backseat.


Managers make sacfrices also,but players make the most ,and your career does not last for ever,so I think ,like in this case where they just won one majior game in the championship,they have every right to question where are they going.Long gone are the days,where you just sit and accept and hope for the best.If a manager is that good other intercounty teams will come calling.Players have no such luxury.
Players want more.They see Clare at the top,they want to be their.Ryan they did not think could bring him their.

The set up next years looks good.So the test is on the players.A new energy,and a set up with a lot of promise,Waterford have potential next year.

alllcounty

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Apologies he wasnt their in 2011.
Didnt say cork beat ye heavily.As I said in previous post,ye were in control against us ,and should have won.
When teams loose games like that ,does not shine brightly on the manager.

The timing I agree was wrong,but they showed plenty of backbone in going against the appointment of him for a new term.The players clearly felt they had given him a two year term,and he didnt impress.What do they do,keep their mouths shut,and play away for the risk of upsetting people.There the guys playing,and they deserve every possible chance to win silverware.


He had two years and no real,real progress was made.Time for a change.
Players arent fools,their going to college with other intercounty players and hear how their standards are when their
when they compare to others.


Players at the end of day make the most sacfries,sore bodies,huge pressure,injuries that could cause them problems long after they retire ,familles ,social life all take a backseat.


Managers make sacfrices also,but players make the most ,and your career does not last for ever,so I think ,like in this case where they just won one majior game in the championship,they have every right to question where are they going.Long gone are the days,where you just sit and accept and hope for the best.If a manager is that good other intercounty teams will come calling.Players have no such luxury.
Players want more.They see Clare at the top,they want to be their.Ryan they did not think could bring him their.

The set up next years looks good.So the test is on the players.A new energy,and a set up with a lot of promise,Waterford have potential next year.

They were in control but then 3 of our forwards had to go off injuried. We had nobody of quality to replace them and that is why the tide turned against Cork. You cant pin that on the management.Progress was been made. Their style of hurling had much improved, all we needed was more forwards that could offer a scoring threat on the county team. They are on the way and you will see some of them next year.If they were playing bad you could understand the players voting against the management, but to have done that when we were moving in the right direction was very bad.This year the test will be on the players. It is now time for them to deliver or there will be many more conversations had similar to this one.

dzilla

Gentlemen, are ye aware of any sports shop selling off last seasons jersey on the cheap with the release of the new jersey? Want to get the navy one for doing a bit of training.

robopaddy

dzilla wrote: »

Gentlemen, are ye aware of any sports shop selling off last seasons jersey on the cheap with the release of the new jersey? Want to get the navy one for doing a bit of training.

Try sportsavers in waterford and dungarvan or the allrounder in dungarvan

Black Suir

dzilla wrote: »

Gentlemen, are ye aware of any sports shop selling off last seasons jersey on the cheap with the release of the new jersey? Want to get the navy one for doing a bit of training.

I know of one sports shop where someone was home from the UK for a few days recently and went to buy a jersey that Waterford wore this year, but they refused to sell it to them. Said it was something to do with Azzurri.

rebel girl 15

alllcounty wrote: »

They were in control but then 3 of our forwards had to go off injuried. We had nobody of quality to replace them and that is why the tide turned against Cork. You cant pin that on the management.Progress was been made. Their style of hurling had much improved, all we needed was more forwards that could offer a scoring threat on the county team. They are on the way and you will see some of them next year.If they were playing bad you could understand the players voting against the management, but to have done that when we were moving in the right direction was very bad.This year the test will be on the players. It is now time for them to deliver or there will be many more conversations had similar to this one.

But for a bit more class, or one high standard forward Waterford would have beaten Kilkenny. The Waterford players cowarded behind a badly organised meeting, Ryan stepped down because of it. I've supported the Cork players every time, because they fronted up, and faced the music. But for Fives I watched a few Waterford games and they were playing some great hurling - they were very well prepared and drilled. If the players don't go out and execute the gameplan or put the ball over the bar, there isn't much the management can do about it.

I can't disagree more with the people saying there was no progress made - they had developed a good style for the players at their disposal at that time. They ran Kilkenny a lot closer than they had for quite a while.

blue note

I don't see how anyone can say that we overachieved under Michael Ryan. I think beating Limerick in 2012 was the only good team we beat and that was hardly an upset. We were respectable in our defeats to Tipp, Cork and Clare and the draw with Kilkenny was a good showing, but I don't see us overachieving with these performances.

I don't feel that we underachieved either, especially considering the injuries we had this year.

And I'd ignore the bookies who have us favourites for relegation in the league each year. We've been due to plummet as a hurling force for a good decade at this stage in the eyes of the pundits and bookies.

And I don't see a whole lot wrong with Darragh Five's interview. If he came out and said that they did well to be competitive against Tipp, Cork, Clare and Kilkenny then I'd have a problem!

garv123

What do ye think?

noiniho

We didnt even make a quarter final this year.

We couldnt beat a Kilkenny team who were missing Shefflin and Michael Fennelly and who played an injured Jackie Tyrell.

Our forward line totally malfunctioned in the game and it was a freak that we came back to draw.

We got ate alive in extra time even though we were the fresher team, and got beaten well even after scoring a square ball goal.

Kilkenny got well beaten by a very average Cork team after, granted they went down to 14 men but some of that Cork team, even though they had gallant displays, really were wiped away in both the 1st AI and the replay.

Anyway, this performance against a tired Kilkenny team, who would subsequently make there earliest exit in years, does not paper over the abject display in the first round of the munster championship, that team did not have the required morale, preparation of heart to win a game they should have won.

And all this is progress??? Fives is right it isnt good enough, maybe he was having a dig at Ryan, or maybe he was just stating a 100% blatant fact, christ any serious hurling county, of which there isnt that many! that doesnt make a quarter final?

Isnt it a GPA rule that when a managers tenure is up, than the county board has to consult the current squad by way of a player vote? isnt this how the player meeting came about.

alllcounty

noiniho wrote: »

We didnt even make a quarter final this year.

We couldnt beat a Kilkenny team who were missing Shefflin and Michael Fennelly and who played an injured Jackie Tyrell.

Our forward line totally malfunctioned in the game and it was a freak that we came back to draw.

We got ate alive in extra time even though we were the fresher team, and got beaten well even after scoring a square ball goal.

Kilkenny got well beaten by a very average Cork team after, granted they went down to 14 men but some of that Cork team, even though they had gallant displays, really were wiped away in both the 1st AI and the replay.

Anyway, this performance against a tired Kilkenny team, who would subsequently make there earliest exit in years, does not paper over the abject display in the first round of the munster championship, that team did not have the required morale, preparation of heart to win a game they should have won.

And all this is progress??? Fives is right it isnt good enough, maybe he was having a dig at Ryan, or maybe he was just stating a 100% blatant fact, christ any serious hurling county, of which there isnt that many! that doesnt make a quarter final?

Isnt it a GPA rule that when a managers tenure is up, than the county board has to consult the current squad by way of a player vote? isnt this how the player meeting came about.

You are right in what you say that we didn’t make a quarter final this year. We played the current all-Ireland champions and the prior year all Ireland champions. We don’t have an abundance of players in our panel aged 24 onwards. We ranked 7th or 8th in the county when it came to options in the forward line for the county team.

I also wouldn’t be too quick to write off Kilkenny. They may not have had Shefflin or Fennelly but their panel was still stronger than ours this year. If kilkenny had their full panel for the second half against Cork, in my view there would have been a different result, in fact with 14 players they reduced the gap after half time. So make no mistake Kilkenny are still a very good team.

The first round game against Clare they were well prepared and in fact dominated them for large periods of that game. Their shooting really left them down and in the last 10 minutes the players gave up. The management team had them set up and prepared to win is it their fault the players hit wide after wide.

Fives was not right to say we underachieved under Ryan in the last 2 years. I was happy with the performances of the team and knew we wouldn’t reach the summit overnight given what we had at our disposal but we were definitely heading in the right direction.

If they were to have a player vote then why was only one third of the panel present.What kind of farce is that from the players. Is this how a country is run,sorry only one third of the country are entitled to have their say in what goeson for the next few years.

Are you for real. He comes out and talks to the national papers, most likely on behalf of the rest of the cowards who hid after their meeting and then has a go at the prior management team. Then he says the players are under no pressure after all the crap they put us through. Yesterday’s article from Darragh Fives was full of bulsh*t and I for one will not be fooled.

thinkstoomuch1

noiniho wrote: »

We didnt even make a quarter final this year.

We couldnt beat a Kilkenny team who were missing Shefflin and Michael Fennelly and who played an injured Jackie Tyrell.

Our forward line totally malfunctioned in the game and it was a freak that we came back to draw.

We got ate alive in extra time even though we were the fresher team, and got beaten well even after scoring a square ball goal.

Kilkenny got well beaten by a very average Cork team after, granted they went down to 14 men but some of that Cork team, even though they had gallant displays, really were wiped away in both the 1st AI and the replay.

Anyway, this performance against a tired Kilkenny team, who would subsequently make there earliest exit in years, does not paper over the abject display in the first round of the munster championship, that team did not have the required morale, preparation of heart to win a game they should have won.

And all this is progress??? Fives is right it isnt good enough, maybe he was having a dig at Ryan, or maybe he was just stating a 100% blatant fact, christ any serious hurling county, of which there isnt that many! that doesnt make a quarter final?

Isnt it a GPA rule that when a managers tenure is up, than the county board has to consult the current squad by way of a player vote? isnt this how the player meeting came about.

I agree totally,you must judge everything on face value.Ryans record was modest,two years you should see real progress.

thinkstoomuch1

alllcounty wrote: »

You are right in what you say that we didn’t make a quarter final this year. We played the current all-Ireland champions and the prior year all Ireland champions. We don’t have an abundance of players in our panel aged 24 onwards. We ranked 7th or 8th in the county when it came to options in the forward line for the county team.

I also wouldn’t be too quick to write off Kilkenny. They may not have had Shefflin or Fennelly but their panel was still stronger than ours this year. If kilkenny had their full panel for the second half against Cork, in my view there would have been a different result, in fact with 14 players they reduced the gap after half time. So make no mistake Kilkenny are still a very good team.

The first round game against Clare they were well prepared and in fact dominated them for large periods of that game. Their shooting really left them down and in the last 10 minutes the players gave up. The management team had them set up and prepared to win is it their fault the players hit wide after wide.

Fives was not right to say we underachieved under Ryan in the last 2 years. I was happy with the performances of the team and knew we wouldn’t reach the summit overnight given what we had at our disposal but we were definitely heading in the right direction.

If they were to have a player vote then why was only one third of the panel present.What kind of farce is that from the players. Is this how a country is run,sorry only one third of the country are entitled to have their say in what goeson for the next few years.

Are you for real. He comes out and talks to the national papers, most likely on behalf of the rest of the cowards who hid after their meeting and then has a go at the prior management team. Then he says the players are under no pressure after all the crap they put us through. Yesterday’s article from Darragh Fives was full of bulsh*t and I for one will not be fooled.

It is championship you judge teams and hes record in two years poor.How people can say ye were moving in the right direction is beyond reason.Nobody rememebers a performance,results is what matters.He wasnt delievring at the end of the day.

noiniho

alllcounty wrote: »

]The first round game against Clare they were well prepared and in fact dominated them for large periods of that game. Their shooting really left them down and in the last 10 minutes the players gave up.

It was his second year in charge, he oversaw a team who gave up in the first round of the munster championship, why would you give him another two years based on that?

alllcounty wrote: »

Fives was not right to say we underachieved under Ryan in the last 2 years. I was happy with the performances of the team and knew we wouldn’t reach the summit overnight given what we had at our disposal but we were definitely heading in the right direction.

A team that gives up is going in the right direction?

alllcounty wrote: »

If they were to have a player vote then why was only one third of the panel present.What kind of farce is that from the players. Is this how a country is run,sorry only one third of the country are entitled to have their say in what goeson for the next few years.

I dont know the answer to that, but I have heard that meeting was called due to GPA protocol, not like it was publicised in the media as a bloodletting by the players, my understanding is that the county board would have called the meeting, but they never communicated that to the media either and the players were hung out to dry.

alllcounty wrote: »

Are you for real. He comes out and talks to the national papers, most likely on behalf of the rest of the cowards who hid after their meeting and then has a go at the prior management team. Then he says the players are under no pressure after all the crap they put us through. Yesterday’s article from Darragh Fives was full of bulsh*t and I for one will not be fooled.

Daragh Fives Quote

“We’d have to look at it as a bad year,” he admitted. “Nobody wants to be getting beaten in June or July. We were disappointed but we did take positives from running Kilkenny so close.

“They had it over us in the last few years so we knew that if we were getting closer to them, then we were going in the right direction. The challenge now is to take it on another step or two in 2014.”


He was talking to the examiner as he was getting his fitz medals and there is another fitz on the way, it looks like he answered the questions honestly, I would not see him talking on behalf of anyone else, its not like he drew the short straw and had to spin a yarn to the media for the rest of the 'cowards'....

you say that he says the players are under no pressure but in the interview he talks about taking it on another step, by getting to and winning a munster final, that sounds to me like they are welcoming pressure on themselves to achieve not hide from it.

noiniho

Anyway, whats the point in looking at player interviews through the prism of Michael Ryan's departure or player meetings or whatever... its just a bit negative isnt it?

I prefer to view it - that Fives, a young highly talented player, is ballsy enough to talk about us contesting and winning a munster final, this on the year we have appointed a coaching team with a pedigree for successfully managing young hurlers across harty, college and underage inter county competitions, you might think that this could be a good combination as we have a young talented squad coupled with the fact we have just won a minor hurling all ireland with some of the best young hurlers to come out of this county in a long time...

Sounds nice doesn't it? its grand to have a bit of optimism.

I think I will go with that as opposed to the cowards who are hiding from the pressure line,