Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

thinkstoomuch1

noiniho wrote: »

It was his second year in charge, he oversaw a team who gave up in the first round of the munster championship, why would you give him another two years based on that?



A team that gives up is going in the right direction?



I dont know the answer to that, but I have heard that meeting was called due to GPA protocol, not like it was publicised in the media as a bloodletting by the media, my understanding is that the county board would have called the meeting, but they never communicated that to the media either and the players were hung out to dry.



Daragh Fives Quote

“We’d have to look at it as a bad year,” he admitted. “Nobody wants to be getting beaten in June or July. We were disappointed but we did take positives from running Kilkenny so close.

“They had it over us in the last few years so we knew that if we were getting closer to them, then we were going in the right direction. The challenge now is to take it on another step or two in 2014.”


He was talking to the examiner as he was getting his fitz medals and there is another fitz on the way, it looks like he answered the questions honestly, I would not see him talking on behalf of anyone else, its not like he drew the short straw and had to spin a yarn to the media for the rest of the 'cowards'....

you say that he says the players are under no pressure but in the interview he talks about taking it on another step, by getting to and winning a munster final, that sounds to me like they are welcoming pressure on themselves to achieve not hide from it.

Good post.Thats all baffles me,people say give a guy more time.I always fail to understand why.Two years is more than enough to judge.

Fives and the players want to win.I don't think thats a sin.They stood up for what they believed in.I admire their courage.

noiniho

you swear Brian Cody had left after years of success!

I really hope that in years to come, unlike some of the people around here, that I wont look back and think 'I wish I could re-live waterfords hurling summer of 2013 and Michael Ryan was in charge'

You people may be right, he will be known as the one who got away.

deiseach

noiniho wrote: »

I really hope that in years to come, unlike some of the people around here, that I wont look back and think 'I wish I could re-live waterfords hurling summer of 2013 and Michael Ryan was in charge'

Nobody is thinking that, and it's disingenuous to suggest that is the case.

Straight Talker

noiniho wrote: »

We didnt even make a quarter final this year.

We couldnt beat a Kilkenny team who were missing Shefflin and Michael Fennelly and who played an injured Jackie Tyrell.

Our forward line totally malfunctioned in the game and it was a freak that we came back to draw.

We got ate alive in extra time even though we were the fresher team, and got beaten well even after scoring a square ball goal.

Kilkenny got well beaten by a very average Cork team after, granted they went down to 14 men but some of that Cork team, even though they had gallant displays, really were wiped away in both the 1st AI and the replay.

Anyway, this performance against a tired Kilkenny team, who would subsequently make there earliest exit in years, does not paper over the abject display in the first round of the munster championship, that team did not have the required morale, preparation of heart to win a game they should have won.

And all this is progress??? Fives is right it isnt good enough, maybe he was having a dig at Ryan, or maybe he was just stating a 100% blatant fact, christ any serious hurling county, of which there isnt that many! that doesnt make a quarter final?

Isnt it a GPA rule that when a managers tenure is up, than the county board has to consult the current squad by way of a player vote? isnt this how the player meeting came about.

I don't think managerial failures cost Waterford against Clare the forwards just weren't accurate enough.Oh and i agree that Kilkenny were no great shakes this year compared to other years but they were still Kilkenny and not too many teams have beaten them in knockout championship hurling while Cody has been around.Truth be told they were shattered when they played us and if our lad's had a bit more confidence and didn't seize up when they realised they had the beating of them then i think we would have been more comfortable winners.However any other team would have lost on the night they played Waterford.Only a team like Kilkenny could have dug themselves out of that hole.I thought Waterford were outstanding that night but they didn't have the firepower to land the knockout blow.I would agree that the current Cork team wouldn't be as good as past Cork teams but i would class them as a good team that are a few half backs and a proper full back short of being an all ireland winning team.I thought that they played some great hurling against Dublin particularly in the first half although that was a good old fashioned 15 on 15 shoot out with everyone in their conventional formations.

As for the two games against Clare i thought Cork dominated the last 15 minutes of the drawn game and they nearly snatched the win!However i realise that the Cork forwards were living off scraps in that match and that it would have been daylight robbery if we snatched that one.As for the second game i felt that sloppy goals and bad defending was Corks undoing.They showed great heart and character to come back from 8 points down and the game was level with 10 minutes to go.However i also realise that Clare could have taken their foot off the gas and went to sleep.Clare then got their fourth goal but Cork kept on fighting until the end.I think a bad half back line was our undoing against Clare because Corks half back line is the weakest out of all the main hurling counties.I actually think we have forwards that can cause any team problems.If the half back line and the full back position could be sorted out then i would be quietly confident that Cork will give any team a game.

Anyway back to the matter at hand and to be honest i felt that Waterford were moving in the right direction under Michael Ryan and guys like Jake Dillion Maurice Shanahan and the other younger forwards will be better players next year.It's not so much that Waterford have bad forwards it's just a lot of Waterfords forwards were still getting used to championship hurling this year.Remember now that Waterford were short about 7 players that would have been starters this year.But i believe that the knives were out for Michael Ryan from day one and i would still insist on that.But what's done is done and i hope Derek McGrath will be allowed get on with the job.I actually think Waterford will be a very strong team in about another 2 to 3 years when the lad's from this years minor team start to come through and i know bloody well that our lad's will get nothing easy against Waterford in the championship next year.I wouldn't agree with the way the players treated Michael Ryan but i will still be supporting those players on any occasion when Cork aren't the opposition just like i always did.I just feel that Darragh Fives comments were very disrespectful towards Michael Ryan when you factor in the way his tenure ended and the constant rumours and sniping that he had to face for the two years that he was in the job.

alllcounty

It was his second year in charge, he oversaw a team who gave up in the first round of the munster championship, why would you give him another two years based on that?[/B]

And where is the player’s responsibility in all of this. It is the management’s job to have them prepared and set up to win. That they did do. So is it everybody else’s fault other than them.



A team that gives up is going in the right direction?


Right direction is a team that is playing to the best of their ability. They showed in that game they were capable of beating Clare, do we have any leaders in our team or is it all shady meetings to point the finger of blame at every one except themselves.

I dont know the answer to that, but I have heard that meeting was called due to GPA protocol, not like it was publicised in the media as a bloodletting by the players, my understanding is that the county board would have called the meeting, but they never communicated that to the media either and the players were hung out to dry.


It was the players that made the decision for change of management not the county board.Then it is up to them to clarify what was wrong and what they wanted instead off hiding away. What does that show for character.


you say that he says the players are under no pressure but in the interview he talks about taking it on another step, by getting to and winning a munster final, that sounds to me like they are welcoming pressure on themselves to achieve not hide from it.



It say’s in the interview

“We had a good few years with him (Ryan) and we didn’t achieve”

“ Fives does not believe that the spotlight is now on the players to back up their stance”

So no pressure at all on them,is it. Is this the kind of treatment management teams are expected to receive from players in Waterford. It sounds like prima donna behaviour. They have taken no responsibility for giving up in the last 10 minutes against Clare,they hold a badly organised meeting and don’t invite two thirds of the panel,they shaft a good management team, they now have a dig at the prior management team and to round it all off they think this is normal behaviour. When was the last time we saw Kilkenny players behave like this.

noiniho

deiseach wrote: »

Nobody is thinking that, and it's disingenuous to suggest that is the case.

Ya that one was off the sarcasmometer

thinkstoomuch1

alllcounty wrote: »

It was his second year in charge, he oversaw a team who gave up in the first round of the munster championship, why would you give him another two years based on that?[/B] I dont know the answer to that, but I have heard that meeting was called due to GPA protocol, not like it was publicised in the media as a bloodletting by the players, my understanding is that the county board would have called the meeting, but they never communicated that to the media either and the players were hung out to dry.


It was the players that made the decision for change of management not the county board.Then it is up to them to clarify what was wrong and what they wanted instead off hiding away. What does that show for character.


you say that he says the players are under no pressure but in the interview he talks about taking it on another step, by getting to and winning a munster final, that sounds to me like they are welcoming pressure on themselves to achieve not hide from it.



It say’s in the interview

“We had a good few years with him (Ryan) and we didn’t achieve”

“ Fives does not believe that the spotlight is now on the players to back up their stance”

So no pressure at all on them,is it. Is this the kind of treatment management teams are expected to receive from players in Waterford. It sounds like prima donna behaviour. They have taken no responsibility for giving up in the last 10 minutes against Clare,they hold a badly organised meeting and don’t invite two thirds of the panel,they shaft a good management team, they now have a dig at the prior management team and to round it all off they think this is normal behaviour. When was the last time we saw Kilkenny players behave like this.

Kilkenny since 1998 have had no reason to with Cody.I gurantee you they dont accept mediocirty,its not in there DNA,and if Cody did not win for a while ,they and himself would be the 1st to review it.

The next manager whenever that happens will be given a two year term,but there is a mininium standard that they expect even for new managers and even if that is not met,they are gone.

noiniho

alllcounty wrote: »

It was his second year in charge, he oversaw a team who gave up in the first round of the munster championship, why would you give him another two years based on that?[/B] I dont know the answer to that, but I have heard that meeting was called due to GPA protocol, not like it was publicised in the media as a bloodletting by the players, my understanding is that the county board would have called the meeting, but they never communicated that to the media either and the players were hung out to dry.


It was the players that made the decision for change of management not the county board.Then it is up to them to clarify what was wrong and what they wanted instead off hiding away. What does that show for character.


you say that he says the players are under no pressure but in the interview he talks about taking it on another step, by getting to and winning a munster final, that sounds to me like they are welcoming pressure on themselves to achieve not hide from it.



It say’s in the interview

“We had a good few years with him (Ryan) and we didn’t achieve”

“ Fives does not believe that the spotlight is now on the players to back up their stance”

So no pressure at all on them,is it. Is this the kind of treatment management teams are expected to receive from players in Waterford. It sounds like prima donna behaviour. They have taken no responsibility for giving up in the last 10 minutes against Clare,they hold a badly organised meeting and don’t invite two thirds of the panel,they shaft a good management team, they now have a dig at the prior management team and to round it all off they think this is normal behaviour. When was the last time we saw Kilkenny players behave like this.

What do you expect him to say? Oh ya we are really under the spotlight now, and our main motivation for the year is to prove all you bastards in the media wrong and show the whole world that Ryan was out of his depth and going one step further... To make a quarter final.

Sorry I just don't see what the big deal is with that interview.

Yes I did think michael ryan was harshly treated, the players need to take a fair share of the responsibility, if that is their form than they won't play for Waterford for long more and they will be cut aside like Ryan, and we will still have 15 players to fill those jerseys.

However it happened it's done, it's a new year and a new manager, it could be 30 new players for all we know, no-one has a divine right to be there.

Like we should have beaten Clare, they could only beat Wexford after extra time, an average cork team got to the final.
People say we improved but we should at least been matching those teams.. We didn't.

Typical Waterford, on a year tipp, Kilkenny and Galway are bad we don't hold up our end of the bargain.

If we were prepared properly going into the Clare game, and won like we should of, we should have won that game, god knows what would have happened, we would have avoided tipp/kk for a start, but no we were a team with no moral that wilted. Any self respecting manager should take the responsibility for that.

2013 shouldn't be defined by the Kilkenny game, 2013 is all about the Clare game, another missed opportunity as we end up on the wrong side of the draw

blue note

alllcounty wrote: »

If they were to have a player vote then why was only one third of the panel present.What kind of farce is that from the players. Is this how a country is run,sorry only one third of the country are entitled to have their say in what goeson for the next few years.

Are you for real. He comes out and talks to the national papers, most likely on behalf of the rest of the cowards who hid after their meeting and then has a go at the prior management team. Then he says the players are under no pressure after all the crap they put us through. Yesterday’s article from Darragh Fives was full of bulsh*t and I for one will not be fooled.

I heard that the players got wind that the board were set to reappoint Michael Ryan so called the meeting in a hurry and only a third were able to attend. They're entitled to the meeting under a GPA agreement like every other county team. It sounds to me that the county board were trying to rush through the reappointment and the players have taken the brunt of the criticism from the situation and as with previous situations (i.e. Justin McCarthy) they are just getting on with it instead of running to the papers. I much rather it this way. Darragh Five's interview months after the event seems like a run of the mill December interview; "we're disappointed we didn't do better last year," "we hope to do better next year."

Calling players cowards and full of bullsh*t is out of order. If the players underperform and there is someone better to take their place they'll be dropped. Michael Ryan has rightly done this to players and essentially this is what has happened to him also. Abusing people and calling them cowards, ironically from behind your keyboard, is uncalled for.*

*unless anyone ever drops Tony Browne obviously.

noiniho

blue note wrote: »

I heard that the players got wind that the board were set to reappoint Michael Ryan so called the meeting in a hurry and only a third were able to attend. They're entitled to the meeting under a GPA agreement like every other county team. It sounds to me that the county board were trying to rush through the reappointment and the players have taken the brunt of the criticism from the situation and as with previous situations (i.e. Justin McCarthy) they are just getting on with it instead of running to the papers. I much rather it this way. Darragh Five's interview months after the event seems like a run of the mill December interview; "we're disappointed we didn't do better last year," "we hope to do better next year."

Calling players cowards and full of bullsh*t is out of order. If the players underperform and there is someone better to take their place they'll be dropped. Michael Ryan has rightly done this to players and essentially this is what has happened to him also. Abusing people and calling them cowards, ironically from behind your keyboard, is uncalled for.*

*unless anyone ever drops Tony Browne obviously.

Exactamundo

Straight Talker

blue note wrote: »

I heard that the players got wind that the board were set to reappoint Michael Ryan so called the meeting in a hurry and only a third were able to attend. They're entitled to the meeting under a GPA agreement like every other county team. It sounds to me that the county board were trying to rush through the reappointment and the players have taken the brunt of the criticism from the situation and as with previous situations (i.e. Justin McCarthy) they are just getting on with it instead of running to the papers. I much rather it this way. Darragh Five's interview months after the event seems like a run of the mill December interview; "we're disappointed we didn't do better last year," "we hope to do better next year."

Calling players cowards and full of bullsh*t is out of order. If the players underperform and there is someone better to take their place they'll be dropped. Michael Ryan has rightly done this to players and essentially this is what has happened to him also. Abusing people and calling them cowards, ironically from behind your keyboard, is uncalled for.*

*unless anyone ever drops Tony Browne obviously.

About the Tony Browne thing.I was enraged when Sean Og and John Gardiner were dropped from the Cork panel.In fact i was so enraged that i started a petition on another site demanding that John Gardiner be reinstated back onto the Cork panel!However in time i realised that those players had to go.That the younger players needed to grow and develop as leaders of the team and that the presence of some of the old guard was blocking and hindering that process.I think if Tony Browne has nothing to contribute as a starter then why should he have a panel place that could be filled by a young lad with loads of potential?This post might not go down well with some people but that's my view on things.It's Derek McGrath's call and whatever call he makes it should be respected.

alllcounty

noiniho wrote: »

What do you expect him to say? Oh ya we are really under the spotlight now, and our main motivation for the year is to prove all you bastards in the media wrong and show the whole world that Ryan was out of his depth and going one step further... To make a quarter final.

Sorry I just don't see what the big deal is with that interview.

Yes I did think michael ryan was harshly treated, the players need to take a fair share of the responsibility, if that is their form than they won't play for Waterford for long more and they will be cut aside like Ryan, and we will still have 15 players to fill those jerseys.

However it happened it's done, it's a new year and a new manager, it could be 30 new players for all we know, no-one has a divine right to be there.

Like we should have beaten Clare, they could only beat Wexford after extra time, an average cork team got to the final.
People say we improved but we should at least been matching those teams.. We didn't.

Typical Waterford, on a year tipp, Kilkenny and Galway are bad we don't hold up our end of the bargain.

If we were prepared properly going into the Clare game, and won like we should of, we should have won that game, god knows what would have happened, we would have avoided tipp/kk for a start, but no we were a team with no moral that wilted. Any self respecting manager should take the responsibility for that.

2013 shouldn't be defined by the Kilkenny game, 2013 is all about the Clare game, another missed opportunity as we end up on the wrong side of the draw

What I expect him to say is honesty. He says the spot light is not on them to back up their stance. Of course it is, anything else is rubbish. He could have said yes there will be added pressure but we plan to give it everything we have.

The big deal is there was 2 issues in that article that are not true and they have now been highlighted as not true.

We did match teams both in the league and the championship. The last 10 minutes against Clare was the one time this year we didn't do ourselves justice and maybe the first half of the league game against Galway.

We were prepared against Clare and should have been beating them out the gate at half time. In all the games I went to this year I thought the team was well organised, they made good use of the ball, they used the space and the backs and midfield were excellent. 2014 should have been a year to continue the improvements made but now it looks like we have a team that shows no responsibility and feel they have nothing to prove next year.

alllcounty

blue note wrote: »

I heard that the players got wind that the board were set to reappoint Michael Ryan so called the meeting in a hurry and only a third were able to attend. They're entitled to the meeting under a GPA agreement like every other county team. It sounds to me that the county board were trying to rush through the reappointment and the players have taken the brunt of the criticism from the situation and as with previous situations (i.e. Justin McCarthy) they are just getting on with it instead of running to the papers. I much rather it this way. Darragh Five's interview months after the event seems like a run of the mill December interview; "we're disappointed we didn't do better last year," "we hope to do better next year."

Calling players cowards and full of bullsh*t is out of order. If the players underperform and there is someone better to take their place they'll be dropped. Michael Ryan has rightly done this to players and essentially this is what has happened to him also. Abusing people and calling them cowards, ironically from behind your keyboard, is uncalled for.*

*unless anyone ever drops Tony Browne obviously.

It was no secret Ryan was going to be reappointed. They decided to wait until the day the minors were playing the all ireland semi final in croke park to make their move. They could have organised it the day before and have everyone there or were those that attended afraid they wouldn't get a majority vote.

It may be a December interview but it shines a light on their attitude to what has gone on and it doesn't come across too favourably.

The words I have used are not out of order. What if a select few members of Fine Gael held a meeting to get rid of the leader of the country after he did a good job in reorganising the party. The leader steps down too hastily and then those who wanted him gone didn't say what was wrong, what they wanted and simply ducked away. Also months after the event one of them comes along and says we under achieved and we dont feel under any pressure to justify our actions. What I would say is those members were cowards not to give their reasons and they are telling bullsh*t if they feel they are not under pressure to justify their actions.

thinkstoomuch1

alllcounty wrote: »

It was no secret Ryan was going to be reappointed. They decided to wait until the day the minors were playing the all ireland semi final in croke park to make their move. They could have organised it the day before and have everyone there or were those that attended afraid they wouldn't get a majority vote.

It may be a December interview but it shines a light on their attitude to what has gone on and it doesn't come across too favourably.

The words I have used are not out of order. What if a select few members of Fine Gael held a meeting to get rid of the leader of the country after he did a good job in reorganising the party. The leader steps down too hastily and then those who wanted him gone didn't say what was wrong, what they wanted and simply ducked away. Also months after the event one of them comes along and says we under achieved and we dont feel under any pressure to justify our actions. What I would say is those members were cowards not to give their reasons and they are telling bullsh*t if they feel they are not under pressure to justify their actions.

What do you expect ,Ryan to get a medal for bringing organisiton to the table.Thats any managers job,it is a basic requirement in any job.He ticked that box.

He left many boxes unticked. He only had one real championship win in two years and failed to inspire the team to believe in him or he's ways.When a managers fails to inspire it is time to walk away.

alllcounty

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

What do you expect ,Ryan to get a medal for bringing organisiton to the table.Thats any managers job,it is a basic requirement in any job.He ticked that box.

He left many boxes unticked. He only had one real championship win in two years and failed to inspire the team to believe in him or he's ways.When a managers fails to inspire it is time to walk away.

You look at the big picture and where we want to get to. We had a huge amount of young hurlers bloodied in championship hurling in the last 2 years. You also look at the performances of the team, their style of hurling and what options we currently have in the panel.

If the team wasn't inspired then I would have seen it in their hurling. We were in the top 4 in the country in the league in those 2 years, alot of young players just out of minor were getting championship game time and the heart shown by the team was good.There were many boxes ticked and in the last 2 years I felt more optimistic than at any stage in the previous 4 years. And I am not the only person baffled with the sequence of events since the kilkenny game.

noiniho

Although not every member of the panel attended, but I understand they all voted, so I think your theory that the meeting was hastily arranged to skew the vote is probably false.
Also a second person has confirmed that it is GPA protocol that a players vote must be sought by the county board when a managers tenure is up, so that kinda removes the cloak and dagger option too...

Your reaction to this interview is way over the top, how would react if say these players played well.. Or won a match??? God forbid!

No it is better these snakes and cowards lose, then we can all revel in the michael ryan I told you so posts and enjoy the misery for a change.

It makes sense now that you think about it, 2014, the year we can't lose.... When we lose.

P.s. Move on

alllcounty

noiniho wrote: »

Although not every member of the panel attended, but I understand they all voted, so I think your theory that the meeting was hastily arranged to skew the vote is probably false.
Also a second person has confirmed that it is GPA protocol that a players vote must be sought by the county board when a managers tenure is up, so that kinda removes the cloak and dagger option too...

Your reaction to this interview is way over the top, how would react if say these players played well.. Or won a match??? God forbid!

No it is better these snakes and cowards lose, then we can all revel in the michael ryan I told you so posts and enjoy the misery for a change.

It makes sense now that you think about it, 2014, the year we can't lose.... When we lose.

P.s. Move on

The players were playing well, we didn't have enough forwards that were inter county material and that was the biggest problem. Are you saying nagle, daniels, m walsh, the fives, dillon, and the rest were not playing well? From where I was standing they were playing some of their best hurling.I like many other gaa supporters in this county want what is best for waterford and I will be supporting the team no matter who is over them. But to skew the last 2 years and try paint a picture that is not representive of reality I do have an issue with. I have moved on and I am hoping 2014 will be the year they make amends for their bad behaviour in the months after the kilkenny game. Now are you going to move on.

thinkstoomuch1

alllcounty wrote: »

The players were playing well, we didn't have enough forwards that were inter county material and that was the biggest problem. Are you saying nagle, daniels, m walsh, the fives, dillon, and the rest were not playing well? From where I was standing they were playing some of their best hurling.I like many other gaa supporters in this county want what is best for waterford and I will be supporting the team no matter who is over them. But to skew the last 2 years and try paint a picture that is not representive of reality I do have an issue with. I have moved on and I am hoping 2014 will be the year they make amends for their bad behaviour in the months after the kilkenny game. Now are you going to move on.

Cork had no great depth of forwards starting against Clare in the ist game in June.We went in stone cold ,after a demoralsing league final.


We had no paudie sullivan,cronin couldnt start ,Coughlan had little hurling after a hip operation.Cian Macarthy who will struggle to start ,played.It is doubtful if he is up to intercounty.We had Cussen that we did not use ,only used in the Limerick game when we had to,naughton did not start,shows Cork hardly had a dearth of quailty forwards either.

Harnedy was making hes debut,with no minor or u21 expierence ,but two league games,two he did not finish.
Horgan we had no idea what to expect up to that game.
Cork won,and won well.Now as Clare proved,they werent at the races that day.

Cork won as when they had nothing else to cling to,jbm,cunnigham,crowley had instilled a belief in them ,they were as good as anyone and could win and would win.

If any team had excuses for not winning last year we had,but jbm didnt accept that and got every inch from that team.

Ryan couldnt inspire he's team.

Deise_2012

Very unfair criticism of Michael Ryan imo, he took over a team very much in transition. Clinton Hennessy retiring, Shane and Brian O'Sullivan away in the US, John Mullane missed 3/4 of the league campaign. Eoin Kelly simply not good enough for the standard of inter county in 2012, he drafted in SOK, Philip Mahony, Gavin O'Brien. Darragh Fives and Paudie Mahony were only in their 2nd year of Senior Hurling. Jamie Nagle and Steven Daniels were very much out in the cold under Davy Fitz. All this and they still managed to avoid relegation and get to the 1/4 finals v Cork, which they would have done if Shane Walsh didn't get injured. Davy had a much better squad and yet we never looked as potential all Ireland winners.

2013 and he had to deal with John Mullane and Eoin Kelly's retirement, Stephen Molumphys work commitments, Steven Daniels out for a year, Shane Walsh constantly injured, Brian O' Halloran injured. Our lack of ball winners in the team resulting in 34 year old Seamus Pender being used as our main ball winner. He drafted in Jamie Barron, Jake Dillon, Shane Fives who will be 3 lads very much in the frame for the starting 15 this year. He got Jamie Nagle playing the best hurling of his life. Yet again avoiding relegation and very unlucky to make the semi finals. Went into the Kilkenny game without 9 panel members. Absolute joke he never got the chance to have at least 1 more year, definately deserved it, tell me what more could he have done with the players he had at his disposal?

robopaddy

alllcounty wrote: »

The players were playing well, we didn't have enough forwards that were inter county material and that was the biggest problem. Are you saying nagle, daniels, m walsh, the fives, dillon, and the rest were not playing well? From where I was standing they were playing some of their best hurling.I like many other gaa supporters in this county want what is best for waterford and I will be supporting the team no matter who is over them. But to skew the last 2 years and try paint a picture that is not representive of reality I do have an issue with. I have moved on and I am hoping 2014 will be the year they make amends for their bad behaviour in the months after the kilkenny game. Now are you going to move on.

The whole thing has been overhyped and over analysed. Not least by yourself. Theres nothing in that interview from where I see it. you chose to interpret it in a certain way to support your point of view and thats fine. Youve made your point but a bit like your views on the divisional boards system we know how much hot hair you like to blow and how much you like to repeat yourself. Im actually with you on that argument but think your way off the mark with regard to this interview.

thinkstoomuch1

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Very unfair criticism of Michael Ryan imo, he took over a team very much in transition. Clinton Hennessy retiring, Shane and Brian O'Sullivan away in the US, John Mullane missed 3/4 of the league campaign. Eoin Kelly simply not good enough for the standard of inter county in 2012, he drafted in SOK, Philip Mahony, Gavin O'Brien. Darragh Fives and Paudie Mahony were only in their 2nd year of Senior Hurling. Jamie Nagle and Steven Daniels were very much out in the cold under Davy Fitz. All this and they still managed to avoid relegation and get to the 1/4 finals v Cork, which they would have done if Shane Walsh didn't get injured. Davy had a much better squad and yet we never looked as potential all Ireland winners.

2013 and he had to deal with John Mullane and Eoin Kelly's retirement, Stephen Molumphys work commitments, Steven Daniels out for a year, Shane Walsh constantly injured, Brian O' Halloran injured. Our lack of ball winners in the team resulting in 34 year old Seamus Pender being used as our main ball winner. He drafted in Jamie Barron, Jake Dillon, Shane Fives who will be 3 lads very much in the frame for the starting 15 this year. He got Jamie Nagle playing the best hurling of his life. Yet again avoiding relegation and very unlucky to make the semi finals. Went into the Kilkenny game without 9 panel members. Absolute joke he never got the chance to have at least 1 more year, definately deserved it, tell me what more could he have done with the players he had at his disposal?

In 2013 cork had no Gardiner,Sean og,sweetnahm,paudie sullivan ,Niall Maccarthy,Eoin Cadogan from the previous year.Not just good hurlers but leaders as well.
Jamie Coughlan had no hurling in the league done,and he only really got up to pace in august.

We left our captain previousy cusack out.Pa cronin our Captain,ill for most of the year.
We had no full back ,centre back yet we beat dublin,kk and clare and were with limerick at half time.

In every game,cork improved,even the replayed All ireland final.
At the start of june ,Cork were not given much chance to even beat clare.
I dont see how progress can be said when results prove otherwise with Ryan.

tomwaterford

alllcounty wrote: »

The players were playing well, we didn't have enough forwards that were inter county material and that was the biggest problem. Are you saying nagle, daniels, m walsh, the fives, dillon, and the rest were not playing well? From where I was standing they were playing some of their best hurling.I like many other gaa supporters in this county want what is best for waterford and I will be supporting the team no matter who is over them. But to skew the last 2 years and try paint a picture that is not representive of reality I do have an issue with. I have moved on and I am hoping 2014 will be the year they make amends for their bad behaviour in the months after the kilkenny game. Now are you going to move on.

there is the 90% of the problem

Black Suir

garv123 wrote: »

What do ye think?

very rugby league like. All its short is another colour or two thrown in.

Black Suir

noiniho wrote: »

We didnt even make a quarter final this year.

We couldnt beat a Kilkenny team who were missing Shefflin and Michael Fennelly and who played an injured Jackie Tyrell.

Our forward line totally malfunctioned in the game and it was a freak that we came back to draw.

We got ate alive in extra time even though we were the fresher team, and got beaten well even after scoring a square ball goal.

Kilkenny got well beaten by a very average Cork team after, granted they went down to 14 men but some of that Cork team, even though they had gallant displays, really were wiped away in both the 1st AI and the replay.

Anyway, this performance against a tired Kilkenny team, who would subsequently make there earliest exit in years, does not paper over the abject display in the first round of the munster championship, that team did not have the required morale, preparation of heart to win a game they should have won.

And all this is progress??? Fives is right it isnt good enough, maybe he was having a dig at Ryan, or maybe he was just stating a 100% blatant fact, christ any serious hurling county, of which there isnt that many! that doesnt make a quarter final?

Isnt it a GPA rule that when a managers tenure is up, than the county board has to consult the current squad by way of a player vote? isnt this how the player meeting came about.

That's the problem and why some people are trying to point out, but the Anti Michael Ryan brigade don't want to listen to. Michael Ryan or anyone on the line did not hit any of the wides that they hit in many games. They did not concede a few soft goals that went in against Waterford this year. It was bad choices and mistakes by some of the players. It would be interesting to see if any of the players looked at their own performances before they put the finger of blame at anyone else if they feel they under achieved. Its too easy at times to blame someone else. I know that Michael Ryan may not be the most favourite of people of many and Michael Ryan sometimes can be his own worst enemy, but there is two sides to every coin and story. But reading the piece in the examiner during the week, you could be forgiven for thinking there was only one in the eyes of some of the players if Darragh Fives was talking for more than himself.

Black Suir

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Good post.Thats all baffles me,people say give a guy more time.I always fail to understand why.Two years is more than enough to judge.

Fives and the players want to win.I don't think thats a sin.They stood up for what they believed in.I admire their courage.

Where would Ma Utd be today if they had sacked Sir Alex after two years when he won nothing. It took him four years to win something. You will have some saying now that Man Utd are a big club and they would still be challenging, but they were a big club as well in the 70's when they played in Division 2.

Black Suir

noiniho wrote: »

Although not every member of the panel attended, but I understand they all voted, so I think your theory that the meeting was hastily arranged to skew the vote is probably false.
Also a second person has confirmed that it is GPA protocol that a players vote must be sought by the county board when a managers tenure is up, so that kinda removes the cloak and dagger option too...

Your reaction to this interview is way over the top, how would react if say these players played well.. Or won a match??? God forbid!

No it is better these snakes and cowards lose, then we can all revel in the michael ryan I told you so posts and enjoy the misery for a change.

It makes sense now that you think about it, 2014, the year we can't lose.... When we lose.

P.s. Move on

If every member of the panel interested in voting one way or the other was not in a position to attend, the meeting should not have taken place. We all have opinions on different things, and the players will on whether Michael Ryan should be re-elected or not. However, if every player was in a room and everyone that wanted to talk be it for or against retaining him as the manager for 2014 and maybe beyond was listened to as to why they think whatever move should be made, maybe and its just a maybe, a players or players that went into that meeting thinking that this or that should be done could have had their minds changed. Heading into the last presidential election, was it not a case that the majority of us thought Sean Gallagher should be the man in the Aras, but something was said that changed all that. Not too long before that David Norris was the favourite and again something came out and it changed things. Maybe if all the players were in the room at the Remada and someone said something, maybe the final outcome might be different. I am not saying it would, but it could.

hardybuck

Ah lads. I know a handful of ye feel really strongly about this, but it's been discussed to death at this stage, and going in circles.

cleaboy boy

To move on and look FORWARD

Our NHL fixtures have been confirmed today

Tipperary V Waterford 19.00 Semple Stadium Sat 15.02.14

Waterford V Galway Walsh Park 14.00 Sun 23.02.14

Waterford V Dublin Walsh Park 14.30 Sun 09.03.2014

Clare V Waterford Cusack Park Ennis 14.00 Sun 16.03.14

Kilkenny V Waterford Nowlan Park 15.00 23.03.14

deiseach

cleaboy boy wrote: »

To move on and look FORWARD

Our NHL fixtures have been confirmed today

Tipperary V Waterford 19.00 Semple Stadium Sat 15.02.14

Waterford V Galway Walsh Park 14.00 Sun 23.02.14

Waterford V Dublin Walsh Park 14.30 Sun 09.03.2014

Clare V Waterford Cusack Park Ennis 14.00 Sun 16.03.14

Kilkenny V Waterford Nowlan Park 15.00 23.03.14

Both our home games in Walsh Park? Cue ructions

thinkstoomuch1

Black Suir wrote: »

Where would Ma Utd be today if they had sacked Sir Alex after two years when he won nothing. It took him four years to win something. You will have some saying now that Man Utd are a big club and they would still be challenging, but they were a big club as well in the 70's when they played in Division 2.

Thats a fair point and you dont have to go soccer to prove their is an exception to every rule.You could use,Billy Morgan and Cody ,he lost hes ist two all ireland finals he was expected to win.I could just as easily list poor managers that failed two year terms and wrongfully given new terms.

However neither man utd or kilkenny,or Cork refused to play a new term with them.They all believed in them.
When the players dont want to play under a manager,he had to go,as the belief and trust was gone.

As some one said do ,this has been well and truly debated:-)...we all have different views.The future will tell a lot.


On a different note,Some tough away games in the league,Clare and Kilkenny be a good test away from home,ye are at the very least guaranteed two tough games in a row whether ye make the q finals or not,ideal prepartion for us in May.