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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1
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The same can be said for Jamie Nagle as he was our most consistent player last year after a few years where he was hit and miss. I'd say Foley was taken off against Kilkenny more due to a lack of match fitness as he was just back from injury but prior to that he was running riot in midfield. He's too loose a marker for wing back but he gave an exhibition from midfield that day. I hope it wasn't a once off, he's defo got the ability but he needs to be more consistent.Thats big talk. He hasnt been consistent enough over the years to nail down a place on the team but I would agree that this could be a make or break season for him if he stays injury free. A lot of people talk about his performance against kk but he actually ended up being taen off0 -
Thats big talk. He hasnt been consistent enough over the years to nail down a place on the team but I would agree that this could be a make or break season for him if he stays injury free. A lot of people talk about his performance against kk but he actually ended up being taen off
I always though he was fairly good, but just had really bad luck with injury, remember before championship match sprained his ankle that morning taking frees. I think a Fully fit Foley would be hard to keep off the starting 15.
I think we now have a lot of options at half back midfield and our halfback line we be up there as the strongest in the championship.
I'd like the idea of starting someone like Fives upfront.0 -
HillFarmer wrote: »I always though he was fairly good, but just had really bad luck with injury, remember before championship match sprained his ankle that morning taking frees. I think a Fully fit Foley would be hard to keep off the starting 15.
I think we now have a lot of options at half back midfield and our halfback line we be up there as the strongest in the championship.
I'd like the idea of starting someone like Fives upfront.
I think Fives and Paudi Prendergast could do a job in the forwards0 -
Have to disagree, Fives is such a talent in the half back line, or even midfield if they go for that. I think it would be like Moran playing wing forward under davy fitz a few years ago, just prefer seeing players playing in their best positions. As for Paudi Prendergast, he played in the forward line for lismore in the u21 this year and didn't stand out. I have a feeling he is going to be further down the pecking order this year with all the lads returning who were missing this year. Paddy Power have Stephen Bennett as 25/1 for an all star, that is some joke haI think Fives and Paudi Prendergast could do a job in the forwards0 -
Deise_2012 wrote: »Have to disagree, Fives is such a talent in the half back line, or even midfield if they go for that. I think it would be like Moran playing wing forward under davy fitz a few years ago, just prefer seeing players playing in their best positions. As for Paudi Prendergast, he played in the forward line for lismore in the u21 this year and didn't stand out. I have a feeling he is going to be further down the pecking order this year with all the lads returning who were missing this year. Paddy Power have Stephen Bennett as 25/1 for an all star, that is some joke ha
I know what you mean but we need someone who can challenge for a high ball in the half forward line and given the embarassment of riches we have for the half back line and midfield positions and the fact Fives is well able to take a score i think its worth experimenting with even if only in Waterford crystal games.
Remember Brick and Ken weren't always centre backs. More often than not these experiments don't work but you won't know until you try0 -
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Yeah that is true. I think that's why Seamus Pender is still around, and why Sully played in the half forward line last year. Just don't have enough ball winners really, but I've big hopes on DJ Foran and Cormac Curran to make the breakthrough in the next couple of years, these 2 lads are great target men from puck outs, I know they're very young yet but Cormac will be very influential for the minors and I expect DJ to do the same for the u21s this year.I know what you mean but we need someone who can challenge for a high ball in the half forward line and given the embarassment of riches we have for the half back line and midfield positions and the fact Fives is well able to take a score i think its worth experimenting with even if only in Waterford crystal games.
Remember Brick and Ken weren't always centre backs. More often than not these experiments don't work but you won't know until you try0 -
This is true, but he's not great at winning ball on the 40 for a lad his size. Get him running at goal from further in.
I would tend to agree. When he has played on the edge of the square in the past for Waterford he has caused all sorts of problems. A good example might be in the first half against Clare in the championship this year. You would have another big man/ball winner out on the 50's in front of him. Seamus Prendergast did well there in 2013 and hopefully in 2014 we will have Molumphy as well who could play there if he is not selected in the middle of the field, where himself and Philip Mahony had a good understanding with each other a year or two back.0 -
Straight Talker wrote: »I don't know if ye would see this as a good thing or a bad thing but apparently Eoin Cadogan is back on the Cork hurling panel!It think it's a bit too early for me to be talking about next summer but sure we'll show up and give it a lash and hopefully we'll give a good account of ourselves.Taking it into account that they will be playing division 1 hurling and you look at the half back line they have you would have to say that Waterford will be the favourites.I think they will be a bit too strong for us as well.It all depends on what sort of a half back line that we can patch together.
btw What's the story with that lad from Clashmore/Kinsalebeg Brian O'Halloran.He was thrown in at the deep end against Tipp in Croke Park a few years ago and im not sure that it did him any favours.I remember there was a lad that came on against us in the 2010 munster final called Tomas Ryan.I haven't heard much of him since either.Where would ye see them in the pecking order when it comes to getting places in the forwards?To be honest i'd give Austin Gleeson a few league games and see how he get's on.If your good enough your old enough.What we would give to see a centre back with his potential emerge in Cork!
If Cadogan is back next year as well as Aidan Walsh and The Pebble, then Cork could be a serious outfit in 2014.
Regarding Brian, he is a fine player, but he has had serious injury worries over the past two or three years. He has missed great chunks of each year with both club and county. Hopefully his injury worries are not behind him. It was mad of Davy to put him on against Tipp in that game. He made a few strange calls in his time as boss of Waterford. Putting Jerome Maher on in the 2011 Munster Final was another one. I could never figure out what he was thinking of. Jerome is a fine player, always showing potential from a very young age, but to put him in that day was madness, and more ever when the Waterford game plan was leaked a day or two before the game. It allowed the Tipp Lads to come up with one that could exploit what Waterford were going to do.0 -
Black Suir wrote: »If Cadogan is back next year as well as Aidan Walsh and The Pebble, then Cork could be a serious outfit in 2014.
Regarding Brian, he is a fine player, but he has had serious injury worries over the past two or three years. He has missed great chunks of each year with both club and county. Hopefully his injury worries are not behind him. It was mad of Davy to put him on against Tipp in that game. He made a few strange calls in his time as boss of Waterford. Putting Jerome Maher on in the 2011 Munster Final was another one. I could never figure out what he was thinking of. Jerome is a fine player, always showing potential from a very young age, but to put him in that day was madness, and more ever when the Waterford game plan was leaked a day or two before the game. It allowed the Tipp Lads to come up with one that could exploit what Waterford were going to do.
I would totally agree on Maher. Putting O Halloran in wasn't total madness. The issue I had was they put him in as an isolated full forward and rained stupid high ball on top of him. He had incredible pace but that was irrelevant as he waited for the ball to pass through the various levels of stratosphere.
I hope O Halloran does come eventually come good as he was an extremely good minor and had a very good league last year. I'd like to seem him play corner forward as he has shown he can score, but Michael Ryan clearly felt he needed his work rate in the half forward line last year as O Halloran covers huge ground from there. The addition of Molumphy may allow him inside if his injury permits.0 -
On paper that looks all well and good,but then when you sit back,and think about it,it dawns that it isn't as rosy for Cork with those you mentioned.Black Suir wrote: »If Cadogan is back next year as well as Aidan Walsh and The Pebble, then Cork could be a serious outfit in 2014.
Regarding Brian, he is a fine player, but he has had serious injgury worries over the past two or three years. He has missed great chunks of each year with both club and county. Hopefully his injury worries are not behind him. It was mad of Davy to put him on against Tipp in that game. He made a few strange calls in his time as boss of Waterford. Putting Jerome Maher on in the 2011 Munster Final was another one. I could never figure out what he was thinking of. Jerome is a fine player, always showing potential from a very young age, but to put him in that day was madness, and more ever when the Waterford game plan was leaked a day or two before the game. It allowed the Tipp Lads to come up with one that could exploit what Waterford were going to do.
Walsh is the exception,he has been senior hurling and intermediate with the club,and won't find the step up daunting,he has the physique and athletiscim,and won't need too much fine tuning for the 25th of May.
He is a huge plus to Cork.
Paudi will be a huge boost but its unlikely he will start,he had another operation,and he will be lucky to have much hurling done by May.
He will be a huge bonus to Cork,but its July or august before we can see hes best.A man that never relied on physique,but purely hes first touch and hurling,it is only games will sharpen him up.It will be similar to jamie coughlan last year,had a hip operation,no hurling in the league done,unlikey paudi,he had til june last year to be ready,he coudnt start,did make it as a sub in the clare game,but it was only as the season wore on he got better and understandably.
Eoin cadogan,is a dissaster,like I posted and gave plenty of reasons to why ,for Cork hurling next year as dual player on the cork thread.Its a dissaster for the present and future.There is of course a few cheer leaders that are think this is the best news since the slice pan,but people need to be realistic,its not just a case of him turning up in thurles,with a hurley ,and holding Maurice Shanahan.
Cadogan will have very little hurling done by May,as they are three league games clashing with the football,and he has indicated that will be hes preference.
He has very little club hurling unlike walsh at club done ,and hes 27 to walsh 23,,he was riddled with injury last year and very slow to make full recovers.
It means the management view him as an option at 3 or six,and is awful for Spillane or joyce if he gets injured how do you expect them to step in ,after busting their balls full time ,where Cadogan is the main choice.
Jbm said he wants the best Cork hurlers on the field .Cadogan hasn't even performed for Club consistently the last few years at hurling ,and you have to go back to 2009 to see him at hes best.
Put seamus prendergast on him,suit cadogan down to the ground,big and strong.
Put maurice shanahan on him,who is all of the above but a much sharper touch ,and way more hurling,it is then cadogan will struggle.
The dual player take over in cork is a recipe for dissaster.
There is no better options than aidan walsh at half forward for cork,on the fringes.Hes goal in the county final proved he is corks best half forward with lehane and harnedy.
With cadogan is comptetly different.There are much better options there.He wants to hurl ,brillant,but give up the football then.0 -
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Black Suir wrote: »If Cadogan is back next year as well as Aidan Walsh and The Pebble, then Cork could be a serious outfit in 2014.
Regarding Brian, he is a fine player, but he has had serious injury worries over the past two or three years. He has missed great chunks of each year with both club and county. Hopefully his injury worries are not behind him. It was mad of Davy to put him on against Tipp in that game. He made a few strange calls in his time as boss of Waterford. Putting Jerome Maher on in the 2011 Munster Final was another one. I could never figure out what he was thinking of. Jerome is a fine player, always showing potential from a very young age, but to put him in that day was madness, and more ever when the Waterford game plan was leaked a day or two before the game. It allowed the Tipp Lads to come up with one that could exploit what Waterford were going to do.
It could be argued that playing o hallo ran that day was a similar decision to starting Shane o donnell in the all Ireland replay. Is Davy a fool for getting it wrong once or a genius to get it right the next time? No sometimes it can just work out. But he sure had balls to repeat a call that had blown up in his face with Waterford in the biggest game of his managerial life.
It wasn't madness to start o halloran, he came on in the Munster final replay and played really well, he was a star at minor, it didn't come off but not because of lack of ability or because he wasn't ready.0 -
Aidan Walsh is completely overrated. Seen him play Intermediate hurling in Cork and he didnt looked near an intercounty hurler. His team mate Lorcan Mcloughlin is ten times a better player0
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Id love to know what game that was?Aidan Walsh is completely overrated. Seen him play Intermediate hurling in Cork and he didnt looked near an intercounty hurler. His team mate Lorcan Mcloughlin is ten times a better player
Lorchan is no way a better hurler.For one,he is not as versaltite.He is not a top midfielder,he is no good in tight,scraps at midfield ,and Clare twice and kilkenny showed that this year.He is fine in open games like 2012 against tipp and dublin this year.
He is only suited to half back.
Walsh on the other hand you could play half back,midfield or anywhere at half forward.It is half forward ,he will play with cork,and with lehane and harnedy,Cork have the one of the best half forward line in the country.
You must not have seen Walsh in 2011 against Tipp at U21 getting 1-3 and making at least four other scores or hes 8 point haul in the munster final against limerick,one point at half back ,or this years county final.
He was a star at minor also at half back and would have played hurling first but denis walsh didnt think he had it after a trial game.Walsh is hardly gospel when it comes to player judgement,now.
He has pace,strength,athleticsim and is superb at long range points and great at winning ball in the air and running at defenders.
Walsh can be a super hurler,its a shame he wont get to work with Ger cunningham.0 -
It could be argued that playing o hallo ran that day was a similar decision to starting Shane o donnell in the all Ireland replay. Is Davy a fool for getting it wrong once or a genius to get it right the next time? No sometimes it can just work out. But he sure had balls to repeat a call that had blown up in his face with Waterford in the biggest game of his managerial life.
It wasn't madness to start o halloran, he came on in the Munster final replay and played really well, he was a star at minor, it didn't come off but not because of lack of ability or because he wasn't ready.
One big mistake made when playing O Halloran (apart from the poor strategy employed with a 2 man half forward line) was that it was well known before he went in that he was going to play. This was a consistent theme during Davy's tenure, despite the constant dummy teams anyone with an interest in knowing the actually team knew it.
Major difference with Shane O'Donnell in that he only found out himself on the day that he was playing. He also was first choice during the league, and had already scored 3 championship goals before the final. *PERSONAL OPINION* I think he was playing in a much better all round forward line against a far inferior backline.
Brian O'Halloran had just finished his leaving cert, so wouldn't have had the same training done. He came on and got a great point v Cork in the replay but limited impact outside of that.0 -
Aidan Walsh is completely overrated. Seen him play Intermediate hurling in Cork and he didnt looked near an intercounty hurler. His team mate Lorcan Mcloughlin is ten times a better player
No way. Walsh is a serious hurler. Good enough for any intercounty team
On another note anyone know if philip mahony is back on the panel for next year? Was a huge loss last season when he left the panel. Top class hurler on his day.0 -
No way. Walsh is a serious hurler. Good enough for any intercounty team
On another note anyone know if philip mahony is back on the panel for next year? Was a huge loss last season when he left the panel. Top class hurler on his day.
I heard the reason he was unavailable was a work placement up the Country as part of his college degree? Which would suggest he will be.0 -
Absoutley,if you had said five years ago ,which team he would of made first,it would have been hurling.That was he's first love,and he had a great u21 winning season with the footballers against down in the 2009 final,that in 2010,,when he wasnt invited to join the huriling, he was asked and fell in with the footballers.No way. Walsh is a serious hurler. Good enough for any intercounty team
On another note anyone know if philip mahony is back on the panel for next year? Was a huge loss last season when he left the panel. Top class hurler on his day.
In football he was and is not the complete article yet,as hes shooting is awful and due to poor senior management and neglect he stalled,but hes fielding,athletiscm,power,and speed with a super,super work ethic and hunger he won two all stars and young player of the year and if counihan had not f**cked him about at centre forward and full,and played him at centre field,he would at the very least be contesting for an all star last year .
He will bring all that strength,power,athletiscm and pace to hurling,but unlike football,he can score outrageous long distance points ,and when he hits the ball,he hits it with confidence,in football its not the same.
Last year he was in DCU ,sharing with paul flynn,and michael murphy,but due to not being allowed play college football,he took a year out,and is at he's own buisness in making hurleys in Kanturk.
He declined to do hurling last year as based in dublin the logistics made it hard to.
He doesnt have the same pressure next year.Based at home,will help,and he is also working with Coiste Oiliuna ,in improving the coaching standard of coaching at college level ,by helping teachers and other coaches.
He would do around 20 sessions with Kanturk.He is also filling in part time a GDA role with Cork,and has also been working with the patrician academy in Mallow.
He has always had a love of hurling,hence making hurlerys,and being in that enviroment plus with Nash and Mcloughlin to do work in the ball alley,he won't have any problem hurling.
And touch wood,but so far he has had a good injury record .0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »I heard the reason he was unavailable was a work placement up the Country as part of his college degree? Which would suggest he will be.
As far as I know he left of his own accord. Headed off travelling for a while. It was disappointing after a fine debut season. but he was back for ballygunner in the championship.0 -
As far as I know he left of his own accord. Headed off travelling for a while. It was disappointing after a fine debut season. but he was back for ballygunner in the championship.
Had heard that originally but heard something different more recently.
For anyone interested, TG4 are showing Waterford v Offaly in full next Thursday at 7.15 for Cluichí na bliana.0 -
It could be argued that playing o hallo ran that day was a similar decision to starting Shane o donnell in the all Ireland replay. Is Davy a fool for getting it wrong once or a genius to get it right the next time? No sometimes it can just work out. But he sure had balls to repeat a call that had blown up in his face with Waterford in the biggest game of his managerial life.
It wasn't madness to start o halloran, he came on in the Munster final replay and played really well, he was a star at minor, it didn't come off but not because of lack of ability or because he wasn't ready.
O'Halloran was good enough to start, but Davy didn't play him the right way whereas he did play Shane O'Donnell the right way. O'Donnell was on the end of some very nice Clare buildup play and had goals gifted to him on a plate while O'Halloran was isolated in a 2 man inside forward line that day and bombarded with high ball with Paul Curran for company, which was retarded. Davy was an absolute disaster for us at times, i've got alot more respect for those Clare players for winning an all ireland with that Muppet in charge0 -
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Id love to know what game that was?
2012 Intermediate final v Kilworth.
I have seen him at U21 level but Darach Honan looked like a hurler of the year contender at that level. Doesnt always mean it will translare to senior.
Anyway time will tell if he is good enough0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »Had heard that originally but heard something different more recently.
For anyone interested, TG4 are showing Waterford v Offaly in full next Thursday at 7.15 for Cluichí na bliana.
What Waterford and Offaly match? The championship hurling from June?0 -
What Waterford and Offaly match? The championship hurling from June?
Yeah I think so. I don't remember it being a classic and after the year that was in the championship I'm amazed it made the cut.
Maurice Shanahan was outstanding that day though, some of his points are worth watching0 -
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TheScoringGoal wrote: »Yeah I think so. I don't remember it being a classic and after the year that was in the championship I'm amazed it made the cut.
Maurice Shanahan was outstanding that day though, some of his points are worth watching
Wasn't there annoyance that the match wasn't shown love at the time? Maybe they think people will have an interest in seeing it now. Was there even some mixup that it wasn't even shown on the Sunday Game?
Either way, I'm in Offaly with the girlfriend for it, so would enjoy watching it with her and her father:)0 -
Wasn't there annoyance that the match wasn't shown love at the time? Maybe they think people will have an interest in seeing it now. Was there even some mixup that it wasn't even shown on the Sunday Game?
Either way, I'm in Offaly with the girlfriend for it, so would enjoy watching it with her and her father:)
It was shown on the Sunday game evening show. But there was a lot of annoyance it wasn't shown live.0 -
While enjoyable, trying to predict Waterford’s championship team for next summer is a futile exercise, as it depends so much on injuries and form, plus the possibility of players coming out of nowhere to secure places on the starting fifteen. Who would have predicted at this time last year that Jamie Nagle would be one of our top performers in 2013?
Before selecting a starting team, it is useful to have a list of the potential contenders available. I have made up the following list of no less than 35 players who could be in the mix for 2014. Looking through this list, I would suggest that, in the coming year, Waterford will have the best all-round hurling panel they have ever had. Even in recent years, there have always been players on the panel who weren’t up to senior intercounty standard. This is no longer the case, and the panel will get even stronger when some of next year’s minors graduate to adult level.
Stephen O’Keeffe
Seanie Barry
Shane Fives
Stephen Daniels
Liam Lawlor
Barry Coughlin
Noel Connors
Tadhg Bourke
Shane McNulty
Jamie Nagle
Philip Mahony
Brick Walsh
Darragh Fives
Stephen Molumphy
Kevin Moran
Richie Foley
Maurice Shanahan
Seamus Prendergast
Shane O’Sullivan
Pauric Mahony
Shane Walsh
Donie Breathnach
Gavin O’Brien
Martin O’Neill
Jamie Barron
Brian O’Halloran
Austin Gleeson
Stephen Bennett
Ray Barry
Paudie Prendergast
Jake Dillon
Kieran Power
Eoin Madigan
Stephen Roche
DJ Foran
Of these 35, I reckon that only six are cast-iron certainties to start: Stephen O’Keeffe, Noel Connors, Brick Walsh, Kevin Moran, Darragh Fives and Stephen Molumphy. This gives an idea of the level of competition there will be for starting places. The big task facing the selectors will be to identify the best pattern of play to suit the players available, and to pick the team accordingly. It will not be simply a question of picking the best player in each position. Key questions will be what kind of ball best suits which forwards, and which outfield players are best equipped to deliver the kind of ball required.
Despite the wealth of talent available, there are still question marks in key positions. Although Liam Lawlor has been holding his own at full back, there remain doubts concerning his lack of pace and strength under the high ball. Assuming Stephen Daniels returns to full fitness, we could see Shane Fives being tried out at the edge of the square, although I believe that Daniels can make his best contribution at wing back.
Will Shane Walsh ever get back to full fitness again? In his absence, there is no obvious target man for full forward (although Eoin Madigan could conceivably fill this role). This will have a big bearing on the kind of approach play required to make best use of what is likely to be a small but fast full forward line.
There are also questions about the availability of ball winners for the half forward line. I don’t know if Seamus Prendergast will be able to carry the load here much longer, and while Pauric Mahony was a good ball winner at minor level, so far he hasn’t been able to show this at senior level where the exchanges are much more physical. Given the depth of half back talent available, I would favour giving Darragh Fives a run at centre forward, as he has the all-round skill and intelligence to make a go of virtually any position. I would also like to see DJ Foran fast-tracked into a wing forward position.
If I had to identify new kids on the block for the coming year, the two I would go for (apart from Foran) would be Stephen Bennett and Tadhg Bourke. Like Darragh Fives, Bourke may have to do an initial apprenticeship at corner back (especially if Shane Fives is moved to the fullback position), although he is too good a player to be confined to that position.
All in all, the potential permutations and combinations are virtually limitless, and it will be very interesting to see how things evolve as the year progresses.0 -
O'Halloran was good enough to start, but Davy didn't play him the right way whereas he did play Shane O'Donnell the right way. O'Donnell was on the end of some very nice Clare buildup play and had goals gifted to him on a plate while O'Halloran was isolated in a 2 man inside forward line that day and bombarded with high ball with Paul Curran for company, which was retarded. Davy was an absolute disaster for us at times, i've got alot more respect for those Clare players for winning an all ireland with that Muppet in charge
Im not the biggest of Davy Fitz fans but he did take Waterford to an all ireland final.Waterford won a munster title with him and they were in the last 4 every year while he was there.Although i don't think Waterford ever looked like likely all ireland winners during the Fitzgerald years i think he did get the most out of the Waterford team while he was in charge of them.He was unlucky because he got the Waterford job when the 98-07 team was just gone past it's peak.Fitzy has proven that he is a smarter manager than people give him credit for.He completely outsmarted both John Allen and JBM this year.While i don't like Davy or his antics he is anything but a muppet!Cork 1990 All Ireland Senior Hurling and Football Champions
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Is Stephen Bennett training does anyone know? He surely deserves a few weeks off after only finishing his season with Ballysaggart 3 weeks ago, I'd hate to see them rush him into senior, after all he did have a double hip operation at the start of the year0
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Straight Talker wrote: »Im not the biggest of Davy Fitz fans but he did take Waterford to an all ireland final.Waterford won a munster title with him and they were in the last 4 every year while he was there.Although i don't think Waterford ever looked like likely all ireland winners during the Fitzgerald years i think he did get the most out of the Waterford team he was in charge of.He was unlucky because he got the Waterford job when the 98-07 team was just gone past it's peak.Fitzy has proven that he is a smarter manager than people give him credit for.He completely outsmarted both John Allen and JBM this year.While i don't like Davy or his antics he is anything but a muppet![/QUOTE]
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