Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

carter10

Stephen O’Keeffe
Seanie Barry
Shane Fives
Stephen Daniels
Liam Lawlor
Barry Coughlin
Noel Connors
Tadhg Bourke
Shane McNulty
Jamie Nagle
Philip Mahony
Brick Walsh
Darragh Fives
Stephen Molumphy
Kevin Moran
Richie Foley
Maurice Shanahan
Seamus Prendergast
Shane O’Sullivan
Pauric Mahony
Shane Walsh
Donie Breathnach
Gavin O’Brien
Martin O’Neill
Jamie Barron
Brian O’Halloran
Austin Gleeson
Stephen Bennett
Ray Barry
Paudie Prendergast
Jake Dillon
Kieran Power
Eoin Madigan
Stephen Roche
DJ Foran


Brian O Sullivan?

Ropaire

Straight Talker wrote: »

Im not the biggest of Davy Fitz fans but he did take Waterford to an all ireland final.Waterford won a munster title with him and they were in the last 4 every year while he was there.Although i don't think Waterford ever looked like likely all ireland winners during the Fitzgerald years i think he did get the most out of the Waterford team while he was in charge of them.He was unlucky because he got the Waterford job when the 98-07 team was just gone past it's peak.Fitzy has proven that he is a smarter manager than people give him credit for.He completely outsmarted both John Allen and JBM this year.While i don't like Davy or his antics he is anything but a muppet!

John Allen outsmarted himself by leaving some players that really should have been starting on the bench for Limerick and playing right into Clares hands, Galway also made a mess of it. JBM isn't so much a master tactician but an excellent motivator who gets an extra 20% out of bog standard players and I thought Cork, while unlucky not to win the first final, were tactically outwitted by Dublin until O'dwyer was sent off. Calling Davy a Muppet was out of order on my part as I just don't like the man, but personal opinion aside I don't rate him as highly as alot of people. He's precided over two of the worst hidings we've ever gotten like! Still, he's won an all ireland now so he must be doing something right.

robopaddy

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Is Stephen Bennett training does anyone know? He surely deserves a few weeks off after only finishing his season with Ballysaggart 3 weeks ago, I'd hate to see them rush him into senior, after all he did have a double hip operation at the start of the year

Yea he looked very jaded in the u21 final. but as far as I know he hasnt trained yet with the seniors

Straight Talker

Ropaire wrote: »

John Allen outsmarted himself by leaving some players that really should have been starting on the bench for Limerick and playing right into Clares hands, Galway also made a mess of it. JBM isn't so much a master tactician but an excellent motivator who gets an extra 20% out of bog standard players and I thought Cork, while unlucky not to win the first final, were tactically outwitted by Dublin until O'dwyer was sent off. Calling Davy a Muppet was out of order on my part as I just don't like the man, but personal opinion aside I don't rate him as highly as alot of people. He's precided over two of the worst hidings we've ever gotten like! Still, he's won an all ireland now so he must be doing something right.

Oh i see your point and i have been at pains to point out on other sites that tactically JBM is not that great a manager but some people just don't want to know about it.As for the 2008 all ireland final.Having the players climbing up mountains and kayaking for their preparation in the run up to the final wasn't a good idea but im not sure that anyone would have lived with Kilkenny that day.

Ropaire

Straight Talker wrote: »

Oh i see your point and i have been at pains to point out on other sites that tactically JBM is not that great a manager but some people just don't want to know about it.As for the 2008 all ireland final.Having the players climbing up mountains and kayaking for their preparation in the run up to the final wasn't a good idea but im not sure that anyone would have lived with Kilkenny that day.

Yeah true, i'd doubt kilkenny were doing anything of the sort and I also doubt Davy has prepared any team like that since. Not in the run up to a game anyway. These days the only critisism i'd have of him as a manager is that he's very slow to react on the sideline, Clare were a mile ahead vs Cork in the final and had he brought a sweeper back when they were 10 up he could have closed it out but didnt. Happy he didn't cos it was a classic game and hopefully the making of that Cork team as they dragged themselves back into it. Waterford took Clare apart in the first round of Munster last year though, and only for some dire defending and even worse shot accuracy we'd have put them away.

Giveitfong

Straight Talker wrote: »

Im not the biggest of Davy Fitz fans but he did take Waterford to an all ireland final.Waterford won a munster title with him and they were in the last 4 every year while he was there.Although i don't think Waterford ever looked like likely all ireland winners during the Fitzgerald years i think he did get the most out of the Waterford team while he was in charge of them.He was unlucky because he got the Waterford job when the 98-07 team was just gone past it's peak.Fitzy has proven that he is a smarter manager than people give him credit for.He completely outsmarted both John Allen and JBM this year.While i don't like Davy or his antics he is anything but a muppet!

People keep talking about managers leading/taking teams to finals and championships as if the players themselves had nothing to do with it. You have to show what managers actually did in terms of motivation, tactics, team selection etc to improve team performance. What did Davy do in this respect with Waterford?

It is possible for teams to perform despite being poorly managed. It is also possible for teams to perform below their potential because of poor management. I believe that Waterford seriously underachieved during the Justin McCarthy era, yet people talk about Justin taking them to three Munster titles. I can see no evidence that Davy had any beneficial effects on Waterford. In my view he hadn't a clue tactically and his man-management approach was out of the dark ages.

When he took over in Clare he tried to use the same approach as he used at Waterford, with players trying to go past markers to set up overlaps and handpassing movements. Clare simply don't have the physicality to apply this successfully. It was only when he adopted the style of play developed at minor and under 21 level, based on pace, movement, stick passing and playing the ball into space, that he achieved success. It galls me to see him getting the credit for a style of play developed by other people.

I don't know how it can be stated that Davy completely outsmarted John Allen and JBM. Limerick were obviously overcome by the occasion in their semi-final and were nowhere near the level of performance achieved in the Munster championship. Declan Hannon, usually a most reliable freetaker, was completely off his game. And if Davy completely outsmarted JBM, how come it was Clare who had to save the game at the death while in the replay, the game was still up for grabs until the last few minutes?

JBM deserves great credit for what he achieved with a team made up mainly of players of modest abilities. This was not only a question of motivation, but of raising their skill levels very considerably. Man for man, Clare are unquestionably a better team but there was still very little between them in the end.

robopaddy

Giveitfong wrote: »

People keep talking about managers leading/taking teams to finals and championships as if the players themselves had nothing to do with it. You have to show what managers actually did in terms of motivation, tactics, team selection etc to improve team performance. What did Davy do in this respect with Waterford?

It is possible for teams to perform despite being poorly managed. It is also possible for teams to perform below their potential because of poor management. I believe that Waterford seriously underachieved during the Justin McCarthy era, yet people talk about Justin taking them to three Munster titles. I can see no evidence that Davy had any beneficial effects on Waterford. In my view he hadn't a clue tactically and his man-management approach was out of the dark ages.

When he took over in Clare he tried to use the same approach as he used at Waterford, with players trying to go past markers to set up overlaps and handpassing movements. Clare simply don't have the physicality to apply this successfully. It was only when he adopted the style of play developed at minor and under 21 level, based on pace, movement, stick passing and playing the ball into space, that he achieved success. It galls me to see him getting the credit for a style of play developed by other people.

I don't know how it can be stated that Davy completely outsmarted John Allen and JBM. Limerick were obviously overcome by the occasion in their semi-final and were nowhere near the level of performance achieved in the Munster championship. Declan Hannon, usually a most reliable freetaker, was completely off his game. And if Davy completely outsmarted JBM, how come it was Clare who had to save the game at the death while in the replay, the game was still up for grabs until the last few minutes?

JBM deserves great credit for what he achieved with a team made up mainly of players of modest abilities. This was not only a question of motivation, but of raising their skill levels very considerably. Man for man, Clare are unquestionably a better team but there was still very little between them in the end.

I like you was not a davy fan when he was here but you have to give credit where credit is due. What he has done with this clare team in an incredible achievement. They are a team of kids who in many peoples eyes were 3 or 4 years off challenging for all irelands.

There is no question that he definetly ouwitted john allen but id agree there probably wasnt much outwitting to be done. Limerick were predictable in their approach. They were overhyped after their munster win played the same game, right into davys hands.

randd1

robopaddy wrote: »

I like you was not a davy fan when he was here but you have to give credit where credit is due. What he has done with this clare team in an incredible achievement. They are a team of kids who in many peoples eyes were 3 or 4 years off challenging for all irelands.

They got their luck this year, but to be fair to them they made the most of it and spectacularly so. Their not all kids either, there's plenty of lads past U21 on the Clare side.

That said, it would not surprise me in the least if they didn't win it again for another 3/4 years.

They are still a side very early in their development as a team, and Clare are not an unbeatable side by any means, Waterford could have had them beaten by half time if they took their chances, Wexford took them to a draw, Cork stuffed them in Munster, and Galway only lost by 4 when Joe Canning had a meltdown on the frees (think he missed 6). Cork had them beat at full time in drawn game, and were a puck of the ball from them in the replay.

Clare are deserved AI champions, but they're not as good as some think and need to improve massively to retain the AI. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised to see them crash out of Munster early next year, and out of the qualifiers if they get a tough draw.

Deise_2012

carter10 wrote: »

Stephen O’Keeffe
Seanie Barry
Shane Fives
Stephen Daniels
Liam Lawlor
Barry Coughlin
Noel Connors
Tadhg Bourke
Shane McNulty
Jamie Nagle
Philip Mahony
Brick Walsh
Darragh Fives
Stephen Molumphy
Kevin Moran
Richie Foley
Maurice Shanahan
Seamus Prendergast
Shane O’Sullivan
Pauric Mahony
Shane Walsh
Donie Breathnach
Gavin O’Brien
Martin O’Neill
Jamie Barron
Brian O’Halloran
Austin Gleeson
Stephen Bennett
Ray Barry
Paudie Prendergast
Jake Dillon
Kieran Power
Eoin Madigan
Stephen Roche
DJ Foran


Brian O Sullivan?

Derek will have his brother David O'Sullivan around too, was his captain for de la salle schools. Thomas Connors will surely get a chance after his heroics for Passage

robopaddy

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Derek will have his brother David O'Sullivan around too, was his captain for de la salle schools. Thomas Connors will surely get a chance after his heroics for Passage

Connors has returned to australia. He was only flown home for the co final.

Deise_2012

robopaddy wrote: »

Connors has returned to australia. He was only flown home for the co final.

Noel is over there too with him, they might miss training in these conditions and come back together!

robopaddy

randd1 wrote: »

They got their luck this year, but to be fair to them they made the most of it and spectacularly so. Their not all kids either, there's plenty of lads past U21 on the Clare side.

That said, it would not surprise me in the least if they didn't win it again for another 3/4 years.

They are still a side very early in their development as a team, and Clare are not an unbeatable side by any means, Waterford could have had them beaten by half time if they took their chances, Wexford took them to a draw, Cork stuffed them in Munster, and Galway only lost by 4 when Joe Canning had a meltdown on the frees (think he missed 6). Cork had them beat at full time in drawn game, and were a puck of the ball from them in the replay.

Clare are deserved AI champions, but they're not as good as some think and need to improve massively to retain the AI. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised to see them crash out of Munster early next year, and out of the qualifiers if they get a tough draw.

I think unlike the tipp team that did senior and u21 double in 2010, this clare team seem a more grounded bunch. A lot of them tipp lads it went to their heads and thought they would go on and rule the roost for many years but it hasnt worked out like that. The lanscape has changed aswell all of a sudden there are 8 counties that will feel they can win an all ireland as opppsed to just one or 2 a couple years ago.

thesaturdayman

both back.

enoughtaken

New year. Whatever happened in 2013 leave it there. New manager, new back room team and new young fellows biting at the bit. Watched the all Ireland DVD yesterday. Some serious talent coming through. Best of luck to Derek and his team. This could be the year.

PTH2009

Got my minor dvd for xmas. Its a good dvd but very rushed production wise.

Limestone1

PTH2009 wrote: »

Got my minor dvd for xmas. Its a good dvd but very rushed production wise.

To be honest you are being very kind to them - I could have put together a better version myself on a laptop. At the very least synchronising the commentary with the picture should have been achievable.

TheScoringGoal

Does anybody know a time and venue for the challenge game against Dublin this weekend?

deiseach

Giveitfong wrote: »

JBM deserves great credit for what he achieved with a team made up mainly of players of modest abilities. This was not only a question of motivation, but of raising their skill levels very considerably. Man for man, Clare are unquestionably a better team but there was still very little between them in the end.

JBM is nothing short of Mr GAA. The way he reacted to Clare's equalising point in the drawn game . . . the classiest act around.

Deise_2012

Waterford v Offaly on tg4 at 7:15 tonight if ye didn't know!

dzilla

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Waterford v Offaly on tg4 at 7:15 tonight if ye didn't know!

Excellent will watch.

Anybody know the arrangements for chalkenge game this weekend?

KevIRL

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Waterford v Offaly on tg4 at 7:15 tonight if ye didn't know!

Jaysis we made some bags of the defending for the opening Offaly goal

dzilla

Does anybody have any pics or links to the new resurfaced terracing in walsh park

Deise_2012

KevIRL wrote: »

Jaysis we made some bags of the defending for the opening Offaly goal

I know yeah! Jake and Sully got 2 unreal long range scores, must have been some wind there!

dzilla

I never relised maurice got such a heckling from the crowd in the second half

seananigans

I remember listening to this one on the radio and thinking how biased the commentary was, but the ref seem to miss prender getting pulled down for a certain goal and then gave a free out? unreal

Giveitfong

I believe the Waterford v Dublin challenge is on in Castlecomer on Sunday at 2.00 pm.

cul beag

Giveitfong wrote: »

I believe the Waterford v Dublin challenge is on in Castlecomer on Sunday at 2.00 pm.

Conditions won't be good if the forecast is anything to go by. Ryan Donnelly reportedly going well in training it will be interesting to see if he sees action. He has improved alot over the last 2 yrs for his club so hopefully he can bring it to the next level.

Deise_2012

cul beag wrote: »

Conditions won't be good if the forecast is anything to go by. Ryan Donnelly reportedly going well in training it will be interesting to see if he sees action. He has improved alot over the last 2 yrs for his club so hopefully he can bring it to the next level.

If he's getting games for the senior fair play, I was struggling to find a place for him in the u21 side. Serious potential though

IanVW

Full Time Senior Hurling Challenge Waterford 2-24 Dublin 3-13.

Wtd Team Keeffe S Fives, Coughlan Bourke, Mahony, Brick, Moran, Nagle, Barron, Breathnach, Barrett, R Barry B Sullivan Maurice, R Donnelly

Some subs used Stephen Molumphy, Jake Dillon, Kieran Power, Gavin O Brien

Scores - Maurice 1-12 (10f), Molumphy 0-3 Brian O'Sullivan 1-0, Dillon, Barron 0-2 each, Fives, Barry, Donnelly, Power, O Brien 0-1 each.

IanVW

Full Time Senior Hurling Challenge Waterford 2-24 Dublin 3-13.

Wtd Team Keeffe S Fives, Coughlan Bourke, Mahony, Brick, Moran, Nagle, Barron, Breathnach, Barrett, R Barry B Sullivan Maurice, R Donnelly

Some subs used Stephen Molumphy, Jake Dillon, Kieran Power, Gavin O Brien

Scores - Maurice 1-12 (10f), Molumphy 0-3 Brian O'Sullivan 1-0, Dillon, Barron 0-2 each, Fives, Barry, Donnelly, Power, O Brien 0-1 each.