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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1
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Mountainlad wrote: »Think we should maybe be a little bit more realistic about his progress. He did something incredible against Kilkenny, his form isn't really that spectacular outside of it though he has potential.
Just trying to cut the lad a bit of slack. Hes basically being slated here for getting on the tg4 u21 team of the year by people from his own county saying its a farce etc. For me he wasnt really one of the stand out performers at minor but in the last couple of seasons hes come on leaps and bounds to the point he has forced his way in to senior reckoning and won this award on a team that didnt win a game Id consider that great progress.
Its a pity that some of the fellahs that came through from minor with huge reputations havent shown the same desire to progress. Theres a perception that some of these lads always have a divine right to be ahead in the pecking order. Weve seen that with certain lads taking a year off to head away on he p**s yet come back in and walk straight back onto the team.0 -
Its a pity that some of the fellahs that came through from minor with huge reputations havent shown the same desire to progress. Theres a perception that some of these lads always have a divine right to be ahead in the pecking order. Weve seen that with certain lads taking a year off to head away on he p**s yet come back in and walk straight back onto the team.
I have to call you out on this. At the end of the day hurling is a sport they don't get paid for and dedicate a lot of their time to. A player is well within his right to go away for a year and not wait until he is 33 and retired to do so0 -
Just trying to cut the lad a bit of slack. Hes basically being slated here for getting on the tg4 u21 team of the year by people from his own county saying its a farce etc. For me he wasnt really one of the stand out performers at minor but in the last couple of seasons hes come on leaps and bounds to the point he has forced his way in to senior reckoning and won this award on a team that didnt win a game Id consider that great progress.
Its a pity that some of the fellahs that came through from minor with huge reputations havent shown the same desire to progress. Theres a perception that some of these lads always have a divine right to be ahead in the pecking order. Weve seen that with certain lads taking a year off to head away on he p**s yet come back in and walk straight back onto the team.
The lad has good potential and has had a very big reputation at underage (Robopaddy found out about him last summer in thurles) but to be he is a bit 'dry' Fantastic v KK when introduced wasn't overly impressed with him at u21 level but at minor (Robopaddy did you go to any game) he had a very up and down season.. The night v KK in walsh park he was outstanding whereas in the semi he gave up the ghost fair early.. I don't know what to make of him.. If he needs a rocket up his arse every time he plays then its going to be a long frustrating watch but if he gets his head right he could be a unreal talent cause he has all the attributes..
As for your comment on fellas heading off on the booze for a season and coming back who now is a having a perceived cut at a certain club player.. Maybe you have a vendetta against that club also which is pretty hypocritical and petty..0 -
The lad has good potential and has had a very big reputation at underage (Robopaddy found out about him last summer in thurles) but to be he ry' Fantastic v KK when introduced wasn't overly impressed with him at u21 level but at minor (Robopaddy did you go to any game) he had a very up and down season.. The night v KK in walsh park he was outstanding whereas in the semi he gave up the ghost fair early.. I don't know what to make of him.. If he needs a rocket up his arse every time he plays then its going to be a long frustrating watch but if he gets his head right he could be a unreal talent cause he has all the attributes..
As for your comment on fellas heading off on the booze for a season and coming back who now is a having a perceived cut at a certain club player.. Maybe you have a vendetta against that club also which is pretty hypocritical and petty..
Shur I was tellin u here last year ever before thurles that he was a forward but u wouldnt hear of it. That was when u were 'manfromcheese'
If you look back at that semi v dublin that u are referring to I think youll see that it was only when barry was moved to centre back the ship was steadied somewhat. It was an embarrassing massacre for the first 20 mins when our full back and centre back were both taken off.
Ok my comments about the player taking a year out were a bit ott. But that player I will be very interested in watching. Its a big year for him imo since he came out of minor he has been pretty average and I dont see how hes good enough to start0 -
The lad has good potential and has had a very big reputation at underage (Robopaddy found out about him last summer in thurles) but to be he is a bit 'dry' Fantastic v KK when introduced wasn't overly impressed with him at u21 level but at minor (Robopaddy did you go to any game) he had a very up and down season.. The night v KK in walsh park he was outstanding whereas in the semi he gave up the ghost fair early.. I don't know what to make of him.. If he needs a rocket up his arse every time he plays then its going to be a long frustrating watch but if he gets his head right he could be a unreal talent cause he has all the attributes..
As for your comment on fellas heading off on the booze for a season and coming back who now is a having a perceived cut at a certain club player.. Maybe you have a vendetta against that club also which is pretty hypocritical and petty..
The first time I saw him at minor, he came on in the drawn game against Cork in Pairc Ui Caoimh, the game that went to extra time, I was very impressed with his sharp striking of the ball annd he was very dynamic.
He played his way on to the team bit in the minor Munster final of that year he again looked like he gave up in the final third of that game, but he wasn't the only one
To be fair I had a big question mark over Daragh Fives that day too, I was sitting just behind the Waterford bench and I could see Jimmy Meaney telling daragh fives to take a long range free (Fives neglected taking the one previous, delegating responsibility to someone else and I think it was Eoin Madigan who struck it), but Fives sherked it and didnt take it, even though he was told to by his manager, Someone else took it and I could see meaney turning away from the field shaking his head.
these are just things you notice when going to alot of matches, you cant question lads ability but when you see things like that it just leaves that question in your mind....
After the U-21 Clare game I would still have that question about fives nagging in my head, the guy could be an All-Star, unquestioned ability and athleticism. But to get to be at that level and considered at that level you need to do it every day..... every single day... Remember Clare went to extra time the previous Saturday too0 -
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kerrrBLAHHH wrote: »The first time I saw him at minor, he came on in the drawn game against Cork in Pairc Ui Caoimh, the game that went to extra time, I was very impressed with his sharp striking of the ball annd he was very dynamic.
He played his way on to the team bit in the minor Munster final of that year he again looked like he gave up in the final third of that game, but he wasn't the only one
To be fair I had a big question mark over Daragh Fives that day too, I was sitting just behind the Waterford bench and I could see Jimmy Meaney telling daragh fives to take a long range free (Fives neglected taking the one previous, delegating responsibility to someone else and I think it was Eoin Madigan who struck it), but Fives sherked it and didnt take it, even though he was told to by his manager, Someone else took it and I could see meaney turning away from the field shaking his head.
these are just things you notice when going to alot of matches, you cant question lads ability but when you see things like that it just leaves that question in your mind....
After the U-21 Clare game I would still have that question about fives nagging in my head, the guy could be an All-Star, unquestioned ability and athleticism. But to get to be at that level and considered at that level you need to do it every day..... every single day... Remember Clare went to extra time the previous Saturday too
Just for the fun of it what's your position on the likes of Jamie Barron lets say? In my opinion he's another one learning his trade,in my opinion hasn't produced anything at county level-YET! That's not to say he won't this year. But you're dissecting both fives and Barry for past performances so where do u stand on Barron,another fella who has been tried in the forwards and the backs and has had several roastings aswell. What of Gavin O Brien aswell? Another fella who has shown great potential both at underage and at senior and yet hasn't moved to the next level? I'm sure if we were to go through all the fellas that have made some sort of a breakthrough since that minor semi final against Dublin you'll find that Dillon and to a lesser extent Barry and Barron have been the only ones some bit consistent at senior level. Stephen Bennett played that day also but has yet to be tried at senior level so we can't really consider him.
Maybe the bottom line here is that we haven't the quality of players coming through yet as the likes of Harnedy,Kelly,Collins etc but at least give them some opportunity to develop and not bury them before they start at all.Remember players develop at different stages in their careers,look at Nagle for example he's been there for the past 6 seasons at least,and last year was the first time you could say he nailed down a place at wing back because of his consistency. Go back further big Dan struggled for a few years to establish himself and yet he ended up with an incredible career.
All I'm saying is don't write the obituaries yet! ( But I've a feeling if sat night goes pear shaped Thompsons funeral home could be getting a few calls!)0 -
Philip Mahony?Shur I was tellin u here last year ever before thurles that he was a forward but u wouldnt hear of it. That was when u were 'manfromcheese'
If you look back at that semi v dublin that u are referring to I think youll see that it was only when barry was moved to centre back the ship was steadied somewhat. It was an embarrassing massacre for the first 20 mins when our full back and centre back were both taken off.
Ok my comments about the player taking a year out were a bit ott. But that player I will be very interested in watching. Its a big year for him imo since he came out of minor he has been pretty average and I dont see how hes good enough to start0 -
Just for the fun of it what's your position on the likes of Jamie Barron lets say? In my opinion he's another one learning his trade,in my opinion hasn't produced anything at county level-YET! That's not to say he won't this year. But you're dissecting both fives and Barry for past performances so where do u stand on Barron,another fella who has been tried in the forwards and the backs and has had several roastings aswell. What of Gavin O Brien aswell? Another fella who has shown great potential both at underage and at senior and yet hasn't moved to the next level? I'm sure if we were to go through all the fellas that have made some sort of a breakthrough since that minor semi final against Dublin you'll find that Dillon and to a lesser extent Barry and Barron have been the only ones some bit consistent at senior level. Stephen Bennett played that day also but has yet to be tried at senior level so we can't really consider him.
Maybe the bottom line here is that we haven't the quality of players coming through yet as the likes of Harnedy,Kelly,Collins etc but at least give them some opportunity to develop and not bury them before they start at all.Remember players develop at different stages in their careers,look at Nagle for example he's been there for the past 6 seasons at least,and last year was the first time you could say he nailed down a place at wing back because of his consistency. Go back further big Dan struggled for a few years to establish himself and yet he ended up with an incredible career.
All I'm saying is don't write the obituaries yet! ( But I've a feeling if sat night goes pear shaped Thompsons funeral home could be getting a few calls!)
My position on alot of these lads is that they need to piss or get off the pot. Some of them were brought in by Davy - that's 3-4 years ago.
In the meantime 19 year olds in Clare are winning All-Irelands.
I am just saying that instead of patting ourselves on the back after a few good performances losing to a tired Kilkenny team who were missing Shefflin and Michael Fennelly maybe its about time we actually did something with that potential.
The years are rolling by, the only guy to have established himself is Jake Dillion.
I would be hoping to see a hell of lot more from Maurice, Jamie Barron, the O Mahonys, D Fives, Stephen O Keffe - thats before you even talk about the guys like Barry or Gavin O Brien.
Hopefully this is the year but they are now becoming the Core of the team, we cant rely on the brick and seamus prendergast forever.
There is enough talking being down about it, lets be seeing it out on the field on a regular basis is what I am saying.
You can wait and wait and wait for guys, for every Dan there and multiple guys like Jack Kennedy or Tommy Ryan, guys that should be there but that it never happened for.0 -
Shur I was tellin u here last year ever before thurles that he was a forward but u wouldnt hear of it. That was when u were 'manfromcheese'
If you look back at that semi v dublin that u are referring to I think youll see that it was only when barry was moved to centre back the ship was steadied somewhat. It was an embarrassing massacre for the first 20 mins when our full back and centre back were both taken off.
Ok my comments about the player taking a year out were a bit ott. But that player I will be very interested in watching. Its a big year for him imo since he came out of minor he has been pretty average and I dont see how hes good enough to start
'manfromcheese' you've lost the plot pal.. Obsessed with people perceived to be a Wum.. I've no idea who that is.
Personally i think he's a wing back and the scores v kilkenny last year were fantastic but to me with his athleticism he is better attacking the ball..
On Philip did he not have a pretty solid season in 2012 at midfield.. Surely a run of games consistent at Intercounty level is a better judge than one 20 min spell in thurles?0 -
I have to step in and defend the young Waterford players. It's incredible how cynical we can be toward our young players. How O Keeffe and Darragh Fives can be doubted on the back of isolated poor performances is baffling. Both have a few years behind them and look good enough to be all stars before they retire.0
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The only person I'm looking for an improvement in this year is Maurice Shan. He's been on the panel since 2009, I know it took Dan a couple of years to get going too so I'm hoping to get a few big performances off him this year against the big guns come championship time0
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Deise_2012 wrote: »The only person I'm looking for an improvement in this year is Maurice Shan. He's been on the panel since 2009, I know it took Dan a couple of years to get going too so I'm hoping to get a few big performances off him this year against the big guns come championship time
Couldn't agree more I don't see what everyone else does hits few frees an not much else0 -
The blue blaa wrote: »Couldn't agree more I don't see what everyone else does hits few frees an not much else
8 points from play last year against Offaly. Was very good against Clare last year too.0 -
I thought he was good in the first half v Clare but when we needed to pull away from them being 4 or 5 points up in the 2nd half it didn't happen for him. Played very well v Offaly and Westmeath. Had big hopes for him to continue his form going into the Kilkenny match but was non existent throughout. I thought that was the game that he really could have made people take notice8 points from play last year against Offaly. Was very good against Clare last year too.0 -
kerrrBLAHHH wrote: »The first time I saw him at minor, he came on in the drawn game against Cork in Pairc Ui Caoimh, the game that went to extra time, I was very impressed with his sharp striking of the ball annd he was very dynamic.
He played his way on to the team bit in the minor Munster final of that year he again looked like he gave up in the final third of that game, but he wasn't the only one
To be fair I had a big question mark over Daragh Fives that day too, I was sitting just behind the Waterford bench and I could see Jimmy Meaney telling daragh fives to take a long range free (Fives neglected taking the one previous, delegating responsibility to someone else and I think it was Eoin Madigan who struck it), but Fives sherked it and didnt take it, even though he was told to by his manager, Someone else took it and I could see meaney turning away from the field shaking his head.
these are just things you notice when going to alot of matches, you cant question lads ability but when you see things like that it just leaves that question in your mind....
After the U-21 Clare game I would still have that question about fives nagging in my head, the guy could be an All-Star, unquestioned ability and athleticism. But to get to be at that level and considered at that level you need to do it every day..... every single day... Remember Clare went to extra time the previous Saturday too
Yeah but how many of those Clare boys excelled in that game? He also picked up a knock against Kilkenny.
Any one saying the likes of Barry and Barron need to front up now or are going nowhere is insane. They're on the panel one year for god sake. I'd expect a bit more say of Paudi Mahony but I still think he's plenty of time to go yet, only 21 after all.
Just think about where Kevin Moran was when he was 21 and then come in out of the fog please.0 -
Ya defo could be all-stars, but look at the age of most inter county teams now, these lads aren't actually young fellas anymore.
Pauraic mahonys was an ultra reliable free taker at minor, made his senior debut and was man of the match against Limerick, his free taking is gone wicked flaky with himself and Maurice hopping from one to the other when things go wrong. How many times have we switched freetakers during matches in the last few years? It's not a good sign...
Pauraic mahony should be our free taker, but what happened? In the minor draw with Cork in 2010 he was ridiculous, he didn't miss one, so what has gone wrong? We are crying out for a reliable free taker... That was four years ago these guys are hitting 22-23
Not enough of these lads have pushed on to the next level.
Hopefully under Derek McGrath they can0 -
Deise_2012 wrote: »I thought he was good in the first half v Clare but when we needed to pull away from them being 4 or 5 points up in the 2nd half it didn't happen for him. Played very well v Offaly and Westmeath. Had big hopes for him to continue his form going into the Kilkenny match but was non existent throughout. I thought that was the game that he really could have made people take notice
He picked up an injury against Clare in the first half. Was exceptional for the 2 games in the Midlands. Didn't happen against Kilkenny but it's too harsh to hang him out to dry for that.0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »Yeah but how many of those Clare boys excelled in that game? He also picked up a knock against Kilkenny.
Any one saying the likes of Barry and Barron need to front up now or are going nowhere is insane. They're on the panel one year for god sake. I'd expect a bit more say of Paudi Mahony but I still think he's plenty of time to go yet, only 21 after all.
Just think about where Kevin Moran was when he was 21 and then come in out of the fog please.
Ah who said they were going nowhere?
what i said is below
I would be hoping to see a hell of lot more from Maurice, Jamie Barron, the O Mahonys, D Fives, Stephen O Keffe - thats before you even talk about the guys like Barry or Gavin O Brien.
ya I do think we should be getting more out of these guys, don't you? because lets face it if they dont do it soon than they will be passed over for some of the new young lads that are coming up who will than get there chance.
For the record I do think that these guys are talented enough, but you have to prove it out on the field, which too many of them arent.
How many of them have nailed down a position on the team? how confident would you be that they would be still in that position or on the field coming up to the 70th minute?
You mention Kevin Moran but look at the team he was trying to break into when he was 21.
We didn't need Moran than as much as we need these lads now0 -
I know i said Tipp will win, but after looking at both teams, i'm changing my mind, i think Waterford have the better side out , even now, before changes are made, I d'ont like p maher as a centre back, i d'ont rate conor o mahoney at all, and i think james woodlock needs blinkers and a pause button, plus their forwards have alot of guys that would kill you when their winning and not show when they are struggling ie Callinan, o Dwyer and even noel Mcgrath[if you put him under pressure and not drift off him], they all have wonderfull ability but no cutting, i think Waterford to win in a scrap by 2 points.0
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And i forgot to mention Conor o Brien, we used to fair love it whn you'd hit thurles and he was corner back, not a good tipp side.0
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Horseboxhead wrote: »I know i said Tipp will win, but after looking at both teams, i'm changing my mind, i think Waterford have the better side out , even now, before changes are made, I d'ont like p maher as a centre back, i d'ont rate conor o mahoney at all, and i think james woodlock needs blinkers and a pause button, plus their forwards have alot of guys that would kill you when their winning and not show when they are struggling ie Callinan, o Dwyer and even noel Mcgrath[if you put him under pressure and not drift off him], they all have wonderfull ability but no cutting, i think Waterford to win in a scrap by 2 points.
Noel McGrath has a habit of dragging the brick all over the place though, if we use someone like Barron as a third midfielder to negate that we've a good shout of winning it.0 -
I had to smile reading Brian Cody’s and Eddie Keher’s views on the current state of hurling. Could Cody’s concerns about restrictions on physicality, perchance, be linked in any way with the fact that physicality was a key factor (although by no means the only one) in Kilkenny’s domination of hurling over the last decade? Presumably he would like all intercounty games to be played in the same way as Kilkenny’s own legendary training matches where, reputedly, Cody’s only interventions are to blow the starting and final whistles. God forbid that any referee would take exception to Jackie Tyrrell’s trademark full frontal tackles which, for example, took Seamus Callanan out in the 2009 All-Ireland final and went unpunished.
But Eddie Keher’s claim that hurling never was a cynical game really took the biscuit. The first hurler I ever saw feigning injury was, in fact, a celebrated Kilkenny player in a game against Offaly back in the 1980s. The player in question fell to the ground clutching his face in mock agony although his opposite number never made any contact with him. This happened right in front of me and I was shocked by the incident at the time.
But under Cody, Kilkenny have brought cynicism to a whole new level. His Kilkenny teams always play on the edge of what was acceptable and frequently beyond it. Holding players’ hurleys on the referees’ blind side, pushing opponents in the back when the incoming ball was still way up in the air, holding their shoulders down with the hand gripping the hurley as they reached up with the other hand, tapping the hand holding the hurley (the Kilkenny “hand shake”) – these are/were all part of their stock in trade. Other ploys are to lower the head going into contact with the ball in hand in order to draw a foul for the arm around the neck and to casually give opponents a little dint of a shoulder into the front shoulder blade, usually just after the referee has stopped play for something or other. The receiving player wouldn’t notice it at the time, but after four or five of these dints, your shoulder can get quite sore and weak.
However, I would say Cody’s biggest concern is the possible introduction of the black card in hurling, given Kilkenny’s reputation for never allowing a player running at their defence to get past the 45 metre line. If Kilkenny had been playing Clare in last year’s All-Ireland final replay, Pat O’Connor would never have been allowed to run through the middle of their defence to set up one of Shane O’Donnell’s goals the way Cork allowed it last September. With the black card system and a conscientious referee impervious to Cody’s sideline presence, Kilkenny might need to stack their bench with substitute defenders.0 -
Noel McGrath has a habit of dragging the brick all over the place though, if we use someone like Barron as a third midfielder to negate that we've a good shout of winning it.
Id have brick follow him.. Problem we had before was Brick would have to sit deep to protect Lawlor's lack of pace.. With him gone and Shane Fives full back i dont really see the need for him to sit so deep.. Also you could have Shane Sul or Moran Playing a little on the defensive to cover any space that might open.. Probably Moran with his athleticism and Sully has a more accurate strike on him pushing on..
Really Think Wford have a great shout.. To much fur coats no Knickers in that tipp side..0 -
Id have brick follow him.. Problem we had before was Brick would have to sit deep to protect Lawlor's lack of pace.. With him gone and Shane Fives full back i dont really see the need for him to sit so deep.. Also you could have Shane Sul or Moran Playing a little on the defensive to cover any space that might open.. Probably Moran with his athleticism and Sully has a more accurate strike on him pushing on..
Really Think Wford have a great shout.. To much fur coats no Knickers in that tipp side..
No, it's really simple. Man for man is almost gone these days, it's often zonal marking. Brick should hold his area, you don't want a hole in the middle. If McGrath strays into the wide areas or around the middle third the half forwards or a third midfielder should be moving into his space.0 -
No, it's really simple. Man for man is almost gone these days, it's often zonal marking. Brick should hold his area, you don't want a hole in the middle. If McGrath strays into the wide areas or around the middle third the half forwards or a third midfielder should be moving into his space.
Correct. Otherwise were left in a situation like the 7 goal hammering poor davey hadnt a clue about zonal heating never mind zonal marking0 -
The blue blaa wrote: »Correct. Otherwise were left in a situation like the 7 goal hammering poor davey hadnt a clue about zonal heating never mind zonal marking
Yeah, and within reason. If the opposition have a really pacey forward or agressive ball winner, you might want to match up particular defenders to mark them, but every team will have different needs.0 -
2 articles about Stephen Daniels in the times and indo today. Good reads, no doubt we will see the best of him into the summer.Giveitfong wrote: »
But under Cody, Kilkenny have brought cynicism to a whole new level. His Kilkenny teams always play on the edge of what was acceptable and frequently beyond it. Holding players’ hurleys on the referees’ blind side, pushing opponents in the back when the incoming ball was still way up in the air, holding their shoulders down with the hand gripping the hurley as they reached up with the other hand, tapping the hand holding the hurley (the Kilkenny “hand shake”) – these are/were all part of their stock in trade. Other ploys are to lower the head going into contact with the ball in hand in order to draw a foul for the arm around the neck and to casually give opponents a little dint of a shoulder into the front shoulder blade, usually just after the referee has stopped play for something or other. The receiving player wouldn’t notice it at the time, but after four or five of these dints, your shoulder can get quite sore and weak.
Agreed, but I wish we ourselves had some of the tricks of trade up our sleeve in the noughties, I reckon we would have won a lot more.Id have brick follow him.. Problem we had before was Brick would have to sit deep to protect Lawlor's lack of pace.. With him gone and Shane Fives full back i dont really see the need for him to sit so deep.. Also you could have Shane Sul or Moran Playing a little on the defensive to cover any space that might open.. Probably Moran with his athleticism and Sully has a more accurate strike on him pushing on..
Really Think Wford have a great shout.. To much fur coats no Knickers in that tipp side..
Is Lawlor gone now or? Is he on the panel or injured?0 -
No, it's really simple. Man for man is almost gone these days, it's often zonal marking. Brick should hold his area, you don't want a hole in the middle. If McGrath strays into the wide areas or around the middle third the half forwards or a third midfielder should be moving into his space.
I dont agree.. if you tell a midfielder to pick up a guy like Mcgrath roaming or a half forward it usually means we fall between stools.. An idea like that is usually brought on a week before and the guy given the role will a) Switch off at times and b) if half forward or midfielder sees his man cleaning up and caught in no mans land hysteria from the crowd and his own self ego will mean he'll abandon plans and go 'F this' im looking like a fool here..
Mcgrath roams in a triangle like motion he'll go touch line to touch line and move out to where throw in line his for straight down the middle puck outs.. His next movement is off the shoulder of a half back a ball is delivered to full line he'll sit deep for slip pass to tip it over.. The guy doesn't like it stuffed up him at all so by being tracked will negate his role in the side which i believe tipp will try and build around this year..
Now a far easier plans is bring your half forward line up the field to squeeze the middle and have moran or sully drop in a bit if there is space to clean up.. Mcgrath doesn't get on his bike he wont go to far away from where brick should be zoning him anyway... What ive found from brick he stands about 10 yards off him anyway so that's pointless..
what you're saying only works if the guys in training are drilled George Graham style where its shape shape shape and the midfielder/half forward is so sick of his job that come match time its natural to track a mcgrath like figure and everyone knows its positions.. for me hurling is too fast for that and you need a bit of risk element to push on in the game..
Perfect example of how it doesn't work is Rooney in 2011 champions league final.. His job was to sit on busquets... Do we all remember fergie pulling him aside in the second half giving him an absolute pasting over his switching off at vital times.. That was a mixture of what i was saying a) ego he scored in first half and went f this i'm star man i want to look good and b) he tried to track busquets but he just switched off at vital times.. and we have a sport 100 times faster than football..
For me Ferguson put this on Rooney a week before and his just didn't have the necessary preparation to carry this out.. .
If you want to go down the root of extra man back then you're going down the root of not trying to win a game but stay in it.. People say Clare had extra man back last year but there mobility is crucial to this and to be honest i just think they tore up the script on what positions are what on a hurling field.. For a team with an extra man back they put up some scores and shipped a fair amount..
The game changes all the time and you need to adapt to whats happening and better it, not stick to stereotypical procedures that aren't carried out in practice and scratch your head in bemusement wondering why it wont work..0 -
I dont agree.. if you tell a midfielder to pick up a guy like Mcgrath roaming or a half forward it usually means we fall between stools.. An idea like that is usually brought on a week before and the guy given the role will a) Switch off at times and b) if half forward or midfielder sees his man cleaning up and caught in no mans land hysteria from the crowd and his own self ego will mean he'll abandon plans and go 'F this' im looking like a fool here..
Mcgrath roams in a triangle like motion he'll go touch line to touch line and move out to where throw in line his for straight down the middle puck outs.. His next movement is off the shoulder of a half back a ball is delivered to full line he'll sit deep for slip pass to tip it over.. The guy doesn't like it stuffed up him at all so by being tracked will negate his role in the side which i believe tipp will try and build around this year..
Now a far easier plans is bring your half forward line up the field to squeeze the middle and have moran or sully drop in a bit if there is space to clean up.. Mcgrath doesn't get on his bike he wont go to far away from where brick should be zoning him anyway... What ive found from brick he stands about 10 yards off him anyway so that's pointless..
what you're saying only works if the guys in training are drilled George Graham style where its shape shape shape and the midfielder/half forward is so sick of his job that come match time its natural to track a mcgrath like figure and everyone knows its positions.. for me hurling is too fast for that and you need a bit of risk element to push on in the game..
Perfect example of how it doesn't work is Rooney in 2011 champions league final.. His job was to sit on busquets... Do we all remember fergie pulling him aside in the second half giving him an absolute pasting over his switching off at vital times.. That was a mixture of what i was saying a) ego he scored in first half and went f this i'm star man i want to look good and b) he tried to track busquets but he just switched off at vital times.. and we have a sport 100 times faster than football..
For me Ferguson put this on Rooney a week before and his just didn't have the necessary preparation to carry this out.. .
If you want to go down the root of extra man back then you're going down the root of not trying to win a game but stay in it.. People say Clare had extra man back last year but there mobility is crucial to this and to be honest i just think they tore up the script on what positions are what on a hurling field.. For a team with an extra man back they put up some scores and shipped a fair amount..
The game changes all the time and you need to adapt to whats happening and better it, not stick to stereotypical procedures that aren't carried out in practice and scratch your head in bemusement wondering why it wont work..
Ah here now George Graham. Rooney. Busquets next you be telling me the Brick should step out with his hand in the air screaming Offside.. lol pmsl0 -
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The blue blaa wrote: »'Correct. Otherwise were left in a situation like the 7 goal hammering poor davey hadnt a clue about zonal heating never mind zonal marking'
Just wanted to make points and its fair easier to make comparisons with something that is constantly on tv and free for people to watch rather than old hurling match 90% of people probably havent been or watched..
Davy learned his trade in Waterford perfected it in Clare.. He had guys filled with too much information on the day and they just followed like zombies without ever having 'heads up' hurling which is a lot of how it has always been played.. which proves again my point on having a tightened up pitch brick follow and one midfield cover in the hole.. Brick is only one man doing a job to break down the rest of their system as mcgrath is integral.. The rest will just play there natural game.. The day against tipp most of the backs will probably play that way on Sat night the only difference is they won't have Davy drilling them with information which makes them second guess their position/thoughts and end up getting slaughtered
Ah it has probably go over your head anyway with comments like the one above..0
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