The iPhone 5s and 5c

murpho999

pfurey101 wrote: »

I'm still grasping straw hoping that we have all be conned and Apple will pull a fast one and come out with an S4 sized kind of screen. Some papers are still saying it, but most aren't .......where's that straw

As the man said on the radio just now. Billions in research and they come up with a champagne cover.

Am I alone here and not wanting a bigger screen?

Don't use a phone for watching a video and like the compactness of iPhone size.

Stupid research comment, this product has developed over the last 10 years and has defined the market (as much as Android users don't like to hear that) and people just focus on a new colour.

Alpha Dog 1

murpho999 wrote: »

Am I alone here and not wanting a bigger screen?

Don't use a phone for watching a video and like the compactness of iPhone size.

Stupid research comment, this product has developed over the last 10 years and has defined the market (as much as Android users don't like to hear that) and people just focus on a new colour.

Fair enough, but it would be great to have the choice of a big screen phone for people who do.

Xavi6

murpho999 wrote: »

Am I alone here and not wanting a bigger screen?

Nope!

Xavi6 wrote: »

As long as they don't make the phone any bigger I'll be delighted, I've an iPad and don't need a brick in my pocket.

I hate the size of some of the Androids people are going around with. If there's an option for one or the other, a la the iPad mini, that's fine but just having a bigger phone option would really shit me.

The 5 is plenty big imo.

Frank Lee Midere

Xavi6 wrote: »

Nope!



I hate the size of some of the Androids people are going around with. If there's an option for one or the other, a la the iPad mini, that's fine but just having a bigger phone option would really shit me.

The 5 is plenty big imo.

I think so too but Apple is probably leaving money on the table.

purpleblaa

pfurey101 wrote: »

Nope! Never thought of Googling for people who dedicate their jobs to apple/mobile space.

I'm still hoping for a big screen this time around. My 2 years are up and don't really want to wait till next Summer for a decent sized iPhone screen. Mad bit of planning this is.

Agree with this completely. I just changed my iPhone (4 for two years) to the S4, simply because Apple (imo) aren't keeping up with the trends. They do their thing and people buy it, but for me an iPhone 5 or 5s wouldn't be a big enough change from the 4. Yes I know people will say there's a world of difference between 4 and 5, but not as much as between ANY iPhone and the new S4.

If Apple were developing something similar to some of the concept phones I've seen then I would have waited, but for me, 5S and 5C weren't going to make me want to wait.

Ivefoundgod

laraghrider wrote: »

This seems to be the thoughts of many and is fully understandable. The problem that apple and indeed everyone else now is what I call the Simpsons problem. They've done everything! What's left in a standard handset? 3D or full holographic video call? Retina scan for security? There is nothing left to come up with and they are all just going bigger screen now to seem like the best in show.

Contact less is potential but at present nobody seems to care so it's a pretty useless feature. Fingerprint scanning isn't anywhere near accurate enough yet and far too unreliable for main stream commercial use. Ditto retina in a small package. So where do we go bar bigger screen, better battery, higher res camera, 1 tb per second Bluetooth speeds. At that the masses will moan that's its all iterative rather than innovative.

Very good point, I agree, not much left to improve on these days. Its just a pity some of the excitement/magic has gone out of these launches. The S4/HTC One launches were pretty underwhelming, as was the iPhone 5. I suppose its just something I'll have to get used to

I'm still going to watch the keynote with interest, I'll be eager to play around with iOS 7 if nothing else anyway.

Harpy

I have an upgrade available so waiting out for the 5s.. Just wondering what's the Craic with getting it when it's released can you go in and get I in Vodafone or will you have to pre order? Just wondering from people who've gotten them at launch before will they be launches straight away on the likes of Vodafone or will apple release them first and then a few weeks later the likes of Vodafone will get them?

Blazer

Switched over to the HTc One recently as I cracked the screen on my iphone and I love it. Nice big screen which is lovely for browsing.
However everytime I pick up the iphone 5 it sits absolutely perfectly in my hand and I really miss that.

laraghrider

Xavi6 wrote: »

Nope!

I hate the size of some of the Androids people are going around with. If there's an option for one or the other, a la the iPad mini, that's fine but just having a bigger phone option would really shit me.

The 5 is plenty big imo.

I'm exactly the same opinion here. I don't like the HTC 1 or the Galaxy's as they are way too big. I don't get the whole thing of this phone is better because it's got a much bigger screen. The 5 for me is as big a screen as I would go.

new_maniac

laraghrider wrote: »

I'm exactly the same opinion here. I don't like the HTC 1 or the Galaxy's as they are way too big. I don't get the whole thing of this phone is better because it's got a much bigger screen. The 5 for me is as big a screen as I would go.

It's a strange thing really, once you get used to a larger screen it's difficult to look at a smaller screen again....surely you said at one point "the iPhone 4 screen is big enough", but if you looked at a 4 now you'd wonder how you ever used it...it's the same with people using the larger android phones, they've got used to that size of a screen so it's very difficult to go back.

Ivefoundgod

new_maniac wrote: »

It's a strange thing really, once you get used to a larger screen it's difficult to look at a smaller screen again....surely you said at one point "the iPhone 4 screen is big enough", but if you looked at a 4 now you'd wonder how you ever used it...it's the same with people using the larger android phones, they've got used to that size of a screen so it's very difficult to go back.

Yeah, you get used to the screen size very quickly. I had to go back to a 4" screen while my phone was being repaired and it was tough getting used to it, you just can't do as much.

new_maniac

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Yeah, you get used to the screen size very quickly. I had to go back to a 4" screen while my phone was being repaired and it was tough getting used to it, you just can't do as much.

I know, logically, it doesn't make sense, because you can do the same stuff you were always able to do, but it just feels....limited

quad_red

Funnily enough, the screen on the iphone 4 almost seems larger than the screen on my 5, at a glance.

It looks wider due to the ratio. Whereas the 5 screen seems skinnier.

I know that makes no sense :P

new_maniac

quad_red wrote: »

Funnily enough, the screen on the iphone 4 almost seems larger than the screen on my 5, at a glance.

It looks wider due to the ratio. Whereas the 5 screen seems skinnier.

I know that makes no sense :P

Yes, strangely enough my girlfriend debated that the iPhone 4 screen was wider than the iPhone 5....mine eyes do deceive me lol

DubDJ

The only problem with the larger screens is the actual comfort of holding the phone and using it one handed. Of course a bigger screen is better. But it's bigger phones most people don't want. That obviously doesn't bother everybody. Problem is with Apple they don't usually offer a choice. So it's usually this one or nothing. If they do introduce a bigger screen people who don't want that will be annoyed. And then there's people who want a bigger screen. If it does happen, I just hope there's a choice. Kinda like the iPad mini or the 5C. Offering a lower cost option.

Ivefoundgod

DubDJ wrote: »

The only problem with the larger screens is the actual comfort of holding the phone and using it one handed. Of course a bigger screen is better. But it's bigger phones most people don't want. That obviously doesn't bother everybody. Problem is with Apple they don't usually offer a choice. So it's usually this one or nothing. If they do introduce a bigger screen people who don't want that will be annoyed. And then there's people who want a bigger screen. If it does happen, I just hope there's a choice. Kinda like the iPad mini or the 5C. Offering a lower cost option.

I suppose keeping the hardware specs similar wouldn't really be possible if they have different sizes. The battery in a 5in screen would likely be much bigger capacity than the 5S for example.

new_maniac

DubDJ wrote: »

The only problem with the larger screens is the actual comfort of holding the phone and using it one handed. Of course a bigger screen is better. But it's bigger phones most people don't want. That obviously doesn't bother everybody. Problem is with Apple they don't usually offer a choice. So it's usually this one or nothing. If they do introduce a bigger screen people who don't want that will be annoyed. And then there's people who want a bigger screen. If it does happen, I just hope there's a choice. Kinda like the iPad mini or the 5C. Offering a lower cost option.

Well although it's unlikely to see a larger iPhone this time round, possibly next year we'll see one, but you're definitely right, there would need to be two high end devices, one with a large screen, one with the standard size.

As you mentioned about the one-handedness of the iPhone, it's bound to be a huge selling point. And I don't know if Apple would want to sell a 'meet in the middle' device between a phone and a tablet, because they would probably want you to buy an iPhone and an iPad

GorillaRising

new_maniac wrote: »

As you mentioned about the one-handedness of the iPhone, it's bound to be a huge selling point.

It's only a selling point to people who want a screen that size.

I don't have particularly big hands, but I find it easy to use a Galaxy or a Nexus device one handed.

You don't need to be able to reach the top left corner of the screen on Android because you can put the icons where you like (and still have it look nice).

whiterebel

murpho999 wrote: »

Am I alone here and not wanting a bigger screen?

Don't use a phone for watching a video and like the compactness of iPhone size.

Stupid research comment, this product has developed over the last 10 years and has defined the market (as much as Android users don't like to hear that) and people just focus on a new colour.

No, I want a phone to use as a phone. Calendar, email etc are necessary, but browsing, youtube etc are not on a phone.

GorillaRising

whiterebel wrote: »

No, I want a phone to use as a phone. Calendar, email etc are necessary, but browsing, youtube etc are not on a phone.

This is what the iPhone does better than anyone still.

I read an interesting piece about customization - while it can be fun on your Android, you almost HAVE TO customize them (with the exception of Nexus devices) due to the amount of rubbish on it.

IF I get move from iOS again I know I'll spend an hour or so rooting, flashing etc.

miralize

Do we need 2 threads on this?

DubDJ

miralize wrote: »

Do we need 2 threads on this?

One is for an event, the other about the actual hardware. After the event dies down I'm sure all focus will shift to actually getting the devices and this thread will take off. I hate when things get lost in a thread after a big event. It's better having both.

Ivefoundgod

GorillaRising wrote: »

This is what the iPhone does better than anyone still.

I read an interesting piece about customization - while it can be fun on your Android, you almost HAVE TO customize them (with the exception of Nexus devices) due to the amount of rubbish on it.

IF I get move from iOS again I know I'll spend an hour or so rooting, flashing etc.

iPhone does those things well but I'd argue all of the high end devices do, plus the Mail app is pretty crap compared to Gmail App IMO. Not sure what article you read but that is total rubbish. Absolutely zero need to customise your android phone unless you want to. Baseless stuff like this is what annoys me most about the idiotic Apple vs Android thing.

GorillaRising

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

iPhone does those things well but I'd argue all of the high end devices do, plus the Mail app is pretty crap compared to Gmail App IMO. Not sure what article you read but that is total rubbish. Absolutely zero need to customise your android phone unless you want to. Baseless stuff like this is what annoys me most about the idiotic Apple vs Android thing.

It's hardly baseless. There are forums dedicated to getting rid of stock Android firmware!

It merely made me aware of exactly what it is I do with my Android devices and why.

Most people aren't too happy with carrier firmware on their phone for obvious reasons.

Touchwiz is bad enough at times without VF putting their junk on it too.

Ivefoundgod

GorillaRising wrote: »

It's hardly baseless. There are forums dedicated to getting rid of stock Android firmware!

It merely made me aware of exactly what it is I do with my Android devices and why.

Most people aren't too happy with carrier firmware on their phone for obvious reasons.

Touchwiz is bad enough at times without VF putting their junk on it too.

Theres a big difference between have to and choosing to. I agree that bloatware is a pain and the various android skins can be frustrating but to say that users have to change their firmware to use the phone is ridiculous.

Also, I'd love to see figures but I suspect the vast majority of Android owners have not, and will never flash a custom rom or root their phone. Anyone I know that has an S3, S4 or HTC One doesn't even know or care about custom launchers, let alone custom roms.

GorillaRising

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Theres a big difference between have to and choosing to. I agree that bloatware is a pain and the various android skins can be frustrating but to say that users have to change their firmware to use the phone is ridiculous.

Also, I'd love to see figures but I suspect the vast majority of Android owners have not, and will never flash a custom rom or root their phone. Anyone I know that has an S3, S4 or HTC One doesn't even know or care about custom launchers, let alone custom roms.

And that's why their phones probably (certainly in all my friends' cases) don't run as fast and battery efficiently as mine.

That's my point - a lot of the time it's necessary to tweak Android (that's what I mean when I say 'have to' - to get the best out of the device).

Something you don't have to do with an iPhone.

Ivefoundgod

GorillaRising wrote: »

And that's why their phones probably (certainly in all my friends' cases) don't run as fast and battery efficiently as mine.

That's my point - a lot of the time it's necessary to tweak Android (that's what I mean when I say 'have to' - to get the best out of the device).

Something you don't have to do with an iPhone.

Thats a matter of personal opinion, without owning the phone yourself how can you say if their phones are running better or worse than yours? Maybe they use their phones more so the battery doesn't last as long?

My fathers S4 is lasting twice as long as his 4S was, does that mean everyone who has an S4 is getting twice as much battery as a 4S? No.

Everyone has a personal preference for OS, phone etc. but you can't take what you've experienced as fact and say Android phones need to be optimised for top performance, particularly when well respected tech sites like Anandtech, ARS Technica and many others have raved about the performance and battery of Lumias, S4, Moto X, HTC One etc. I don't recall any review of any top end phone saying that the stock firmware needs to be tweaked for best performance, because they don't.

Theres little difference in performance between any of the high end phones these days, I would have thought that was accepted by fans of every platform.

GorillaRising

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Thats a matter of personal opinion, without owning the phone yourself how can you say if their phones are running better or worse than yours? Maybe they use their phones more so the battery doesn't last as long?

Because I've used their phones and they've complained to me. I'd have a look at their battery stats too and I'd be familiar with how much time they'd spend on the phone because I'd ask them.

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

My fathers S4 is lasting twice as long as his 4S was, does that mean everyone who has an S4 is getting twice as much battery as a 4S? No.

I've had 10 - 15 or so Android phones in the last couple of years - not one has had the as good a battery as the 4s with the exception of the S3.

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Everyone has a personal preference for OS, phone etc. but you can't take what you've experienced as fact and say Android phones need to be optimised for top performance, particularly when well respected tech sites like Anandtech, ARS Technica and many others have raved about the performance and battery of Lumias, S4, Moto X, HTC One etc. I don't recall any review of any top end phone saying that the stock firmware needs to be tweaked for best performance, because they don't.

In my experience, most of the time they do - with the exception of the Nexus devices. Perhaps that's changed this year.

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Theres little difference in performance between any of the high end phones these days, I would have thought that was accepted by fans of every platform.

I would agree for the most part....

new_maniac

Are we still discussing the possible hardware/specs of the new iPhone/s or have we descended into another circular Android Vs iOS again?....because I can assure you, these are very circular debates

Ivefoundgod

GorillaRising wrote: »

Because I've used their phones and they've complained to me. I'd have a look at their battery stats too and I'd be familiar with how much time they'd spend on the phone because I'd ask them.

Fair enough

I've had 10 - 15 or so Android phones in the last couple of years - not one has had the as good a battery as the 4s with the exception of the S3.

Well I'm assuming we're talking about high end android phones compared to iPhones? If not, then yeah, performance is not going to be equal but a custom ROM is not going to fix that. Bad hardware is bad hardware.

In my experience, most of the time they do - with the exception of the Nexus devices. Perhaps that's changed this year.

If that was the case don't you think the reviews would be a lot poorer? Whats the point of excellent hardware if the firmware needs to be customised and why are tech sites not mentioning it in reviews?

I would agree for the most part....

At least we agree on something

GorillaRising

new_maniac wrote: »

Are we still discussing the possible hardware/specs of the new iPhone/s or have we descended into another circular Android Vs iOS again?....because I can assure you, these are very circular debates

Nope. I'm just open to discussing the merits of both in my experience. I like and use both OS' for different reasons.

Obviously comparisons will be drawn between the two in discussing hardware and software of either.

Ivefoundgod

new_maniac wrote: »

Are we still discussing the possible hardware/specs of the new iPhone/s or have we descended into another circular Android Vs iOS again?....because I can assure you, these are very circular debates

I'm done

GorillaRising

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Well I'm assuming we're talking about high end android phones compared to iPhones? If not, then yeah, performance is not going to be equal but a custom ROM is not going to fix that. Bad hardware is bad hardware.

They were high end ones, with the exception of one or two, but I wouldn't be bothered comparing those. In many cases they've been the same model to make sure it's not a one off.

And whilst I realise the hardware is there, it's sometimes hampered by the firmware I find. And that's the difference between Android and iPhone, again in my experience. There's a consistency with iOS.

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

If that was the case don't you think the reviews would be a lot poorer? Whats the point of excellent hardware if the firmware needs to be customised and why are tech sites not mentioning it in reviews?

I'd wonder how long they'd spend using the phone before they review it. Sometimes I'd have a phone for a few weeks and it would be fine, and then the issues start. It's not every phone, but it's just something I wouldn't experience on iOS.

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

At least we agree on something

Having said all that I'm looking forward to later to see if I'll wait for the 5s or go Android again

EDIT:

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

I'm done

Me too!

new_maniac

GorillaRising wrote: »

Nope. I'm just open to discussing the merits of both in my experience. I like and use both OS' for different reasons.

Obviously comparisons will be drawn between the two in discussing hardware and software of either.

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

I'm done

Fair enough both of you, it's hard whether text on a screen is written with an angry tone or a friendly tone lol...We don't want you guys falling out over phones after all.

I do think iOS is the better polished of the two OS's, but the way apple have made it so closed bugs me somewhat. Comparativlity, android can be rough round the edges because it's an open source project, but the fact that it's open source means it can be messed around with

Ivefoundgod

GorillaRising wrote: »

Having said all that I'm looking forward to later to see if I'll wait for the 5s or go Android again

I'm the same, either upgrade from the S3 to HTC One or maybe Nexus 5 if its out soonish or switch over to iOS for a while.

Ivefoundgod

new_maniac wrote: »

I do think iOS is the better polished of the two OS's, but the way apple have made it so closed bugs me somewhat. Comparativlity, android can be rough round the edges because it's an open source project, but the fact that it's open source means it can be messed around with

I agree that iOS is more polished but I don't agree that performance of iPhone 5 is any better or worse than comparative Android phones like the One or S4. That was my main point.

Anyway, back to the iPhone 5S/5C. Anyone willing to have a guess at price point of the 5C? I was kinda hoping the price range would have leaked by now but nothing yet. Knowing Apple, it'll be far from "cheap". My guess is around €350-400.

new_maniac

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

I agree that iOS is more polished but I don't agree that performance of iPhone 5 is any better or worse than comparative Android phones like the One or S4. That was my main point.

Anyway, back to the iPhone 5S/5C. Anyone willing to have a guess at price point of the 5C? I was kinda hoping the price range would have leaked by now but nothing yet. Knowing Apple, it'll be far from "cheap". My guess is around €350-400.

I suppose it's wishful thinking that they would give it the same price tag as the iPad Mini?

quad_red

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

I agree that iOS is more polished but I don't agree that performance of iPhone 5 is any better or worse than comparative Android phones like the One or S4. That was my main point.

Anyway, back to the iPhone 5S/5C. Anyone willing to have a guess at price point of the 5C? I was kinda hoping the price range would have leaked by now but nothing yet. Knowing Apple, it'll be far from "cheap". My guess is around €350-400.

They'll surely not go below €350? They want to offer a cheaper alternative to the 'premium' range.

If they make the cheaper range half the price more and more consumers won't be able to justify the more expensive and more profitable (for apple) premium handset.

new_maniac

quad_red wrote: »

They'll surely not go below €350? They want to offer a cheaper alternative to the 'premium' range.

If they make the cheaper range half the price more and more consumers won't be able to justify the more expensive and more profitable (for apple) premium handset.

Just had a crazy thought...anyone wonder if the 5C is just going to be a colorful version of the 5S?

Which would mean it would be priced the same as the 5S....just a thought

Ivefoundgod

quad_red wrote: »

They'll surely not go below €350? They want to offer a cheaper alternative to the 'premium' range.

If they make the cheaper range half the price more and more consumers won't be able to justify the more expensive and more profitable (for apple) premium handset.

No I'd be very surprised if they do. They would make a lot of money in the short term off younger consumers and probably in Asia too but it would severely damage the image of the brand IMO. Considering how many iPhone users are attracted by the premium image of the brand, how many of those would stick around if everyone suddenly had iPhones, even if they are a cheaper model.

Looking at the design, the 5C and 5S are going to look pretty similar. A certain segment of iPhone user need people to see that they have an iPhone. I think we all know the type.

banquo

Agreed, not a hope they'll dip below 350. More likely 450-499. Has to be significantly cheaper than the flagship, but not too cheap to damage the brand.

Ivefoundgod

Yeah a lot of leaks suggested the specs were almost identical to the 5. I'm presuming the iPhone 4 is going to be discontinued tomorrow from the online store? In that case, sell your iPhone 4 today!

Autosport

I paid over €600 for my 5 and I wonder what kind of prices the new ones will be, what networks will have it first too, will they have offers on it.

DubDJ

€350-€400 is the sweet spot. I'd say they'll get a lot more sales from people who just want an iPhone and don't know what the other features are. They'll lose sales of the 5S to it but I'd say the 5C sales will more than make up for it.

You have to remember, a €499 phone isn't exactly budget. There'd be no point in it.

Ivefoundgod

DubDJ wrote: »

€350-€400 is the sweet spot. I'd say they'll get a lot more sales from people who just want an iPhone and don't know what the other features are. They'll lose sales of the 5S to it but I'd say the 5C sales will more than make up for it.

You have to remember, a €499 phone isn't exactly budget. There'd be no point in it.

True but Apple have never said the 5C is going to be a budget phone. We're all speculating here, I still think €350-400 is most likely but €499 is not out of the question either. Maybe they're looking at Samsung and saying hang on, they're S4 is plastic and is currently selling for around €500-550 new, might be that the 5C is just a plastic version of the 5/5S. Wild speculation of course

new_maniac

DubDJ wrote: »

€350-€400 is the sweet spot. I'd say they'll get a lot more sales from people who just want an iPhone and don't know what the other features are. They'll lose sales of the 5S to it but I'd say the 5C sales will more than make up for it.

You have to remember, a €499 phone isn't exactly budget. There'd be no point in it.

I would say the 5C will attract a new market whereas the 5S will attract current iPhone users...if the price is set right, they'll probably make more money than any other iPhone release

drunkmonkey

So there's no lost cost iPhone, how there share price is surviving this at the moment has me baffled.
They've basically replaced the 4s with the 5c and held the price the same.
The 5 is being replaced by the 5s.

They've basically done nothing to claw back market share.

DubDJ

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So there's no lost cost iPhone, how there share price is surviving this at the moment has me baffled.
They've basically replaced the 4s with the 5c and held the price the same.
The 5 is being replaced by the 5s.

They've basically done nothing to claw back market share.

They've kept the 4S on, dropped to 4GB. The 5C is basically replacing the iPhone 5. And adding the iPhone 5S to the lineup. The 5C is the 5 in a cheaper case.

pfurey101

Well that was underwhelming!

Its off to big screen land with me.

topcatcbr

DubDJ wrote: »

The 5C is the 5 in a cheaper case.

At the price point the 5 would have been sold at using the old model.

This is a con. They produced a cheaper phone and are trying to squeeze the same money as the better phone would of sold for.

I won't be upgrading my 4s now. Maybe for next model but they really need to go bigger with better battery.