Am I Irish?

sheesh

sheesh wrote: »

So what nationality is someone from Northern Ireland?

He can't answer as he has been thread banned.

Paramite Pie

Kirpatricio145 wrote: »

Because like some others from the North you suffer from an identity crisis. You truly feel as though you are Irish, and you are not. You just simply are not. It is not a bad thing, it is just the truth.

What if there was a United Ireland? Would you consider them Irish then?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nations are formed by culture and cultures are formed by conflict. You have just gone through a ninety year long civil conflict I mercifully have been largely spared from.

My friends in the North have often made the point that they didn't grow up in a war zone and that they had a normal childhood, largely unaffected by the Troubles.

While NI may become more removed in time, why do we retain the monopoly on the word 'Irish'?

If they're Northern Irish then surely we must be Southern Irish. Correct?

sheesh

Deleted User wrote: »

He can't answer as he has been thread banned.

just say that now deleted post. meant to put reason but ended up putting a image url sorry if any confusion caused (image link was sfw)

Red Pepper

deconduo wrote: »

What if someone is born on international waters?

I believe Dev was born on a boat in international waters.
I understand that you adopt the nationality of your first port of call. He landed in New York which made him an American citizen and ultimately meant he was not executed as a 1916 leader.

Red Pepper

Paramite Pie wrote: »

If they're Northern Irish then surely we must be Southern Irish. Correct?

Maybe we need a "new" nationality to cover people born in NI from 1922+?
In the same way as the Scots, Welsh and English are part of the UK. Maybe that should have been done years ago to prevent the ambiguity.
Isn't there a nationality called "Ulster Scottish"?

ONeill2013

Red Pepper wrote: »

Maybe we need a "new" nationality to cover people born in NI from 1922+?
In the same way as the Scots, Welsh and English are part of the UK. Maybe that should have been done years ago to prevent the ambiguity.
Isn't there a nationality called "Ulster Scottish"?

Ulster Scots is another identity for the people who came in the Ulster Plantations

An Riabhach

Derrydoc wrote: »

When i was reading this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057015656
I was surprised to see the attitudes of many posters towards Northern Ireland. I don't mean people not supporting a united Ireland as there are many arguments to be made against that,
What surprised me was the posters who wanted nothing to do with the place or the people within it.
Now being a Northern Irish nationalist I have always viewed myself as Irish, however I am curious as to how people in the Republic view people like myself.

Do you think of us as Irish or quasi Irish? Do you have the same attitude to Nationalists and Unionists in the north?
Do you wish we would just piss-off and leave you all alone?

My answer is simple.If you are an Irish Nationalist living in Northern Ireland,then you are Irish.And there are plenty other people living there also who will regard themselves Irish.The thing is-as far as I know,British Unionists still outnumber Irish Nationalists in Northern Ireland(correct me if I am wrong),and if the Unionists had their way there would be no Nationalists there at all-that's the impression I get.

dd972

Keith300 wrote: »

No, if you are born in a country you are from that country.

Someone born in x is from x.

Someone born in y is from y.

Horsesh*t,

Saoirse Ronan or Ronan O'Gara, American? Shane MacGowan, English?,
Cliff Richard, Indian ? J G Ballard, Chinese ?

The places where people are born are simply the places their parents happen to reside at the time, it doesn't mean that you have to self identify culturally with that particular place or live, eat, sleep and breathe it for the rest of your life. I've known quite a few Irish people that were born in the U.K and came here as kids and now speak with Irish accents.

Likewise if I was somewhere like Manchester or Birmingham that had a large Irish community and someone with a local accent told me they were Irish because their parents were, fine as well, I'd certainly view them as Irish without them needing to assert it.

Red Pepper

ONeill2013 wrote: »

Ulster Scots is another identity for the people who came in the Ulster Plantations

Yeah I guessed - my point is that we need a "new" nationality and that Ulster Scot probably emerged from people trying to define themselves or overcome the Irish/UK ambiguity.

So suggestions for a new all encompassing nationality? I'll start...

Nironish
Troublish
Tadfadish (TADFAD for the 6 counties)

I think I am on to something.

Mr_Spaceman

Almost, Red Pepper.

However, you missed FATLAD/FATDAD.

Fermanagh, Antrim, Tyrone, Londonderry/Derry, Armagh. Down.

All aboard with your FATLAD passports, folks! Problem solved.

ONeill2013

Red Pepper wrote: »

Yeah I guessed - my point is that we need a "new" nationality and that Ulster Scot probably emerged from people trying to define themselves or overcome the Irish/UK ambiguity.

So suggestions for a new all encompassing nationality? I'll start...

Nironish
Troublish
Tadfadish (TADFAD for the 6 counties)

I think I am on to something.

Maybe just Ulsterish, both are proud of our Ulster heritage

Mr_Spaceman

Norn Ironish or Ulsterish?

Red Pepper

ONeill2013 wrote: »

Maybe just Ulsterish, both are proud of our Ulster heritage

Will it include the Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan folks? Cant really work unless we sell them to the UK.

ONeill2013

Red Pepper wrote: »

Will it include the Donegal, Moneghan and Cavan folks? Cant really work unless we sell them to the UK.

Sure the people spent that much time in NI they may as well be

Red Pepper

ONeill2013 wrote: »

Sure the people spent that much time in NI they may as well be

Are ye sure? They're an odd bunch. Awful poetry.

Jimoslimos

Living under a different political jurisdiction doesn't change the shared history and culture of all people on this island, for better or worse. Try telling Unionists that the Battle of the Boyne is irrelevant to them because it didn't happen on NI soil.

NI must be one of the few disputed territories to put a geographical qualification to another nation in their name (South Sudan is another). People in North and South Korea see themselves as Korean - not North or South Korean, before the fall of the Berlin Wall both sides saw themselves as "German", Vietnam, etc.

Galwayguy35

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Northern Ireland isn't a country? Jesus.

It's one of the four constituent countries of the UK. Nation and Country are two different things.

But yes, nationality itself in NI is either Irish, British or both - but to suggest NI isn't a country is either laughably ignorant or just tragic trolling.

No it's not a country, it's a province in Ireland which is under British rule.

Kiwi in IE

CJC999 wrote: »

A passport is simply a travel document. There are thousands of people who were born all over Europe, United States, Africa Asia and Australia who hold irish passports, it doesn't make them irish, it makes them an Irish citizen which gives them a legal entitlement to live or travel freely here.

Really? I assume my son can't call himself Irish then since he was born in another country to an Irish father and foreign mother? Although he identifies as Irish (having lived here 3 of his 5 years), by your definition I guess he's not since he wasnt born here and is not of pure Irish (meaning ROI of course) blood.

Mr_Spaceman

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No it's not a country, it's a province in Ireland which is under British rule.

Ulster is a province, Northern Ireland is a country.

Basic stuff, but hey, I'll indulge you.

Yamanoto

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

the amount of Irish people who show disdain for Irishness is proof of that.

Define Irishness for me there FF, will ya.

Yellow121

Why is this thread still going? Thought it was settled hours ago. Do threads ever end because everyone agrees and decide not to post anymore on the topic?

Capercaille

As long as a person has Irish blood in them and considers themselves Irish, then it doesn't matter whether the person is born in the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland.

Femme_Fatale

Yamanoto wrote: »

Define Irishness for me there FF, will ya.

Simply being born in and growing up in Ireland.

Galwayguy35

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Ulster is a province, Northern Ireland is a country.

Basic stuff, but hey, I'll indulge you.

It's 6 counties and you think it's a country.

Maybe I'll indulge you instead.

Red Pepper

Yellow121 wrote: »

Why is this thread still going? Thought it was settled hours ago. Do threads ever end because everyone agrees and decide not to post anymore on the topic?

Yellow121, see post #310. We need to devise a new nationality name and then we're done...please help

Mr_Spaceman

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's 6 counties and you think it's a country.

Maybe I'll indulge you instead.

Yes, you're quite right - the six counties of NI make the country. The same as Scotland, Wales and England.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't true.

Yamanoto

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Simply being born in and growing up in Ireland.

So folks are disdainful of that.

To save us both a bit of time, are we talking your Eoghan Harris thing again?

Red Pepper

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No it's not a country, it's a province in Ireland which is under British rule.

It's part of a province (66%) in Ireland under British rule. There are 9 counties in Ulster.

Tombo2001

Sorry for not reading all 300 posts....

.......is it not good enough to be Northern Irish, seeing as that what the OP is .......

Galwayguy35

Red Pepper wrote: »

It's part of a province (66%) in Ireland under British rule. There are 9 counties in Ulster.

Yeah all right if ya want to split hairs, it's part of a province.

It ain't a country though.

Mr_Spaceman

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah all right if ya want to split hairs, it's part of a province.

It ain't a country though.

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"

You're in denial.

So be it.

Yellow121

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"

You're in denial.

So be it.

Did it used to be the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland?

Mr_Spaceman

Yellow121 wrote: »

Did it used to be the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland?

Pre-partition, yes.

Yellow121

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Pre-partition, yes.

So it could change again?

Mr_Spaceman

Yellow121 wrote: »

So it could change again?

Well, only if Ireland wanted to rejoin the union... highly unlikely!

Yellow121

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Well, only if Ireland wanted to rejoin the union... highly unlikely!

Or if Northern Ireland wants to leave it, which is more likely.

Iwasfrozen

Yellow121 wrote: »

So it could change again?

As an addition to the above post if in future Britain took a harder stance and sought to annex us or even just sought international recognition as the rightful government of Ireland I imagine they would reinstate the old name but otherwise I don't see the point.

Jimoslimos

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Northern Ireland isn't a country? Jesus.

It's one of the four constituent countries of the UK. Nation and Country are two different things.

But yes, nationality itself in NI is either Irish, British or both - but to suggest NI isn't a country is either laughably ignorant or just tragic trolling.

A constituent part perhaps, but country - No. It doesn't meet the most important international criteria for being a recognised country. A local government with limited powers does not a country make.

NI is no more a country than Quebec is.

Yellow121

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As an addition to the above post if in future Britain took a harder stance and sought to annex us or even just sought international recognition as the rightful government of Ireland I imagine they would reinstate the old name but otherwise I don't see the point.

I think you're a bit mental.

Mr_Spaceman

Jimoslimos wrote: »

A constituent part perhaps, but country - No. It doesn't meet the most important international criteria for being a recognised country. A local government with limited powers does not a country make.

NI is no more a country than Quebec is.

Both Wales and Scotland have local governments with limited powers, so I guess they're not countries either.

Iwasfrozen

Jimoslimos wrote: »

NI is no more a country than Quebec is.

Quebec is a country. Right that's settled lads. Debate over. NI is a country. Jimoslimos has sorted it out.

Iwasfrozen

Yellow121 wrote: »

I think you're a bit mental.

You're not the first.

Mr_Spaceman

So to recap... is Derrydoc Irish or not?

Jimoslimos

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Both Wales and Scotland have local governments with limited powers, so I guess they're not countries either.

Correct. Hence there wouldn't need to be a vote on Scottish independence.

If that was the case then I guess NI didn't exist as a country during direct rule from Westminster.

Yellow121

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

So to recap... is Derrydoc Irish or not?

Irish but if he wanted to be identified as British he could also.

irishfeen

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

So to recap... is Derrydoc Irish or not?

Yes as much as any man, woman and child in born in any one of the 32 counties of Ireland...

TheChizler

Yellow121 wrote: »

Irish but if he wanted to be identified as British he could also.

Or vice versa. Officially either or both jurisdiction will accept him as a citizen so it is really up to him.

Stabshauptmann

It's more than just a matter of a passport. The op is asking if being born North of the border makes someone different and less Irish.

Northies have exposure to many parts of the same heritage as Southerners, but there are some they don't and some experiences in NI will shape you in a way 99% of people down South will not understand.

Yes Northerners are different, but they are not less Irish. North Dublin and South Dublin couldn't be more different! Northern Ireland contributes so much to our national identity: legends like the Tain, the revival in Irish Dance, the blanket defence ;-)

We are a small nation with many differences, but we are parts of the same whole

Cee-Jay-Cee

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Really? I assume my son can't call himself Irish then since he was born in another country to an Irish father and foreign mother? Although he identifies as Irish (having lived here 3 of his 5 years), by your definition I guess he's not since he wasnt born here and is not of pure Irish (meaning ROI of course) blood.

By my reckoning your son is Irish. You are irish and he lives here. The OP doesn't live here but in another country. They weren't born here, they were born in Northern Ireland where they still live. it's a totally different situation.

Galwayguy35

CJC999 wrote: »

By my reckoning your son is Irish. You are irish and he lives here. The OP doesn't live here but in another country. They weren't born here, they were born in Northern Ireland where they still live. it's a totally different situation.

Holy jaysus derrydoc was born on the Island of Ireland so yes he is Irish.

How can you not see that.