La Liga 2014/15 Discussion Thread

Nuri Sahin

I'm not sure if they hold out, but Granada have been fantastic. Disciplined and organised to a man. Starving Barca of space in the center so well.

Turtwig

Could watch Iniesta all night. :eek:

Headshot

Neymar truly has been some waste of money. The team was craving for CB"s, keeper and better squad players but nope spend big money on a position that didnt need to be filled

Nuri Sahin

Pinto has saved Barca again.

spiralism

Decisive 5 minutes in the title race coming up

Turtwig

Headshot wrote: »

Neymar truly has been some waste of money. The team was craving for CB"s, keeper and better squad players but nope spend big money on a position that didnt need to be filled

Wrong type of buy. But he's actually been their best player in the latter two or three games and generally all season hasn't been a bad a player.

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Pinto has saved Barca again.

It's the hair. :pac:

JPA

Barcelona have gone stale. It's very hard to change a team comprised of such talent but some big players and personalities need to come into defence and midfield.

Nuri Sahin

Well done Granada!

spiralism

Massive result. Win at Getafe tomorrow and Atletico are in a very strong position for the title race. Couldn't argue that Barca deserve it more than them as things stand right now.

CSF

Atleti's to lose now.

Turtwig

I'm awful I expect history to repeat itself. Atletico will also slip up. It's been the way of the season. Barca slip up, then Atleti slip up.

MisterAnarchy

JPA wrote: »

Barcelona have gone stale. It's very hard to change a team comprised of such talent but some big players and personalities need to come into defence and midfield.

Yeah ,its too predictable.
They kept on trying to walk the ball into the net tonight ,kept on trying short passes in crowded spaces when it would have been easier to try and beat a man or shoot.
It seems Messi and Iniesta are the only 2 players willing to try and beat a man and the opposition know that.

Barcelonas shooting tonight was woeful,on another night they could have scored 5 or 6.

Now that Man Utd are in a slump it seems Barcelona are the new team to hate ,alot of ABB fans popping up lately it would seem.

Turtwig

They actually looked more inventive when Messi was injured. Cesc/Neymar played the false 9 far more effectively. Messi is far far too static and disciplined defence know how to stifle him.

Y2KBOS86

Jernal wrote: »

They actually looked more inventive when Messi was injured. Cesc/Neymar played the false 9 far more effectively. Messi is far far too static and disciplined defence know how to stifle him.

It will take balls to drop Messi.

Has to be done though, on current form he shouldn't be in the Argentina starting eleven either, he will play for them though, has no choice.

Amirani

I really wasn't expecting Granada to get anything tonight, really puts Atletico in a strong position at this point.

It seems inevitable that Martino will be gone at the end of the season. Quite unfortunate as they haven't exactly been terrible. Their current failings are more as a result of their flawed transfer policy and Messi's post-injury form than anything else.

JPA

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Yeah ,its too predictable.
They kept on trying to walk the ball into the net tonight ,kept on trying short passes in crowded spaces when it would have been easier to try and beat a man or shoot.
It seems Messi and Iniesta are the only 2 players willing to try and beat a man and the opposition know that.

Barcelonas shooting tonight was woeful,on another night they could have scored 5 or 6.

Now that Man Utd are in a slump it seems Barcelona are the new team to hate ,alot of ABB fans popping up lately it would seem.

Going on a long time, they handed out so many beatings they built up a few enemies.

Amirani

Great finish from Di Maria. He's had a great season, I'm a big fan.

Turtwig

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Great finish from Di Maria. He's had a great season, I'm a big fan.

Is that speaking as your avatar or speaking as your real person? :pac:

Amirani

Jernal wrote: »

Is that speaking as your avatar or speaking as your real person? :pac:

Both I'd imagine.

Nuri Sahin

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Yeah ,its too predictable.
They kept on trying to walk the ball into the net tonight ,kept on trying short passes in crowded spaces when it would have been easier to try and beat a man or shoot.
It seems Messi and Iniesta are the only 2 players willing to try and beat a man and the opposition know that.

Barcelonas shooting tonight was woeful,on another night they could have scored 5 or 6.

Now that Man Utd are in a slump it seems Barcelona are the new team to hate ,alot of ABB fans popping up lately it would seem.

Cringe, and meh.

What we need is more people who over exaggerate every little detail when it comes to anything positive Barca do, while only singing when winning.

I'll be delighted if and when Atleti or any non-big two club win La Liga. It's exactly what La Liga needs. Atleti fans have had to suffer for too long so I wouldn't begrudge them any success, nor should any football/neutral fan. I hope they'll be known as the Kings of Spain and Europe in a months time.

CSF

It will be interesting too see if Messi makes the Ballon D'or nominees by default.

Nuri Sahin

Game over in the space of 3 minutes with goals from Bale and Isco.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

It will be interesting too see if Messi makes the Ballon D'or nominees by default.

38 goals in 40 games this season, but yes it will be by "default"

Dempsey

All set up for the city of Madrid to implode into a black hole...

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

38 goals in 40 games this season, but yes it will be by "default"

Ok that might have been an exaggeration (even if a decent number of those goals weren't in the calendar year) but his general performance has been a shadow of the Messi I've been used to. Workrate has dipped severely and he does seem to be going through the motions at times.

Dempsey

He is certainly a few levels below his best. Stats can hide that but watching him says different

Moneymaker

He's not been the same player since early 2013.

jamaamaj

CSF wrote: »

Ok that might have been an exaggeration (even if a decent number of those goals weren't in the calendar year) but his general performance has been a shadow of the Messi I've been used to. Workrate has dipped severely and he does seem to be going through the motions at times.

I think we all expect Messi to be great every game, as that is the expectation of the great man.

For me i want to see Messi have a great world cup this summer and showcase his immense talents.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

Ok that might have been an exaggeration (even if a decent number of those goals weren't in the calendar year) but his general performance has been a shadow of the Messi I've been used to. Workrate has dipped severely and he does seem to be going through the motions at times.

Yes he's been below par, though the argument would be that the team and current set up are below par, however even shadow Messi has a record of 38 in 40 and more than merits a place in the Balon D'or running. Has this been Messi's best season? No. Can he do better? Certainly, however the entire set up should serve him better than it has.

Ulysses Gaze

CSF wrote: »

It will be interesting too see if Messi makes the Ballon D'or nominees by default.

If he leads Argentina to win the World Cup...or even has a great World Cup himself.

Turtwig

AIG,

The team was playing much better without Messi in the side. Their attack was way more coherent and less predictable. Messi makes them super predictable. Even Ballague pointed it out. He's a phenomenal player but Barca are currently a better team without him. Maybe that's a reflection on Tata not being able to utilise him. Pep has a way of getting the best out of players for the team e.g Lahm. Messi was always played in a way to maximise his effectiveness. Tata isn't as creative. But Messi, still doesn't do the leg work. It's a little petulant, if we're being honest. He even got booked today too, iirc.

Dempsey

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Yes he's been below par, though the argument would be that the team and current set up are below par, however even shadow Messi has a record of 38 in 40 and more than merits a place in the Balon D'or running. Has this been Messi's best season? No. Can he do better? Certainly, however the entire set up should serve him better than it has.

Ronaldo achieved very impressive stats/performances with a labouring Madrid side over the years..

Maybe you have more appreciation for individual performances when the team isnt as impressive?

Moneymaker

I thought Barca were playing just fine in the first half of the season. Their style had changed but it was working, they had more variety to their attack and they were more solid defensively.

Both of those are gone now.

Turtwig

Moneymaker wrote: »

I thought Barca were playing just fine in the first half of the season. Their style had changed but it was working, they had more variety to their attack and they were more solid defensively.

Both of those are gone now.

Agree, at the start of the season. They were steely like Atletico I saw any team struggling to beat them. They were surreally efficient. Then the whole philosophy idealogues took over and the team reverted to a formula that simply doesn't work anymore. Everyone knows how to play against it.

Andersonisgod

Jernal wrote: »

AIG,

The team was playing much better without Messi in the side. Their attack was way more coherent and less predictable. Messi makes them super predictable. Even Ballague pointed it out. He's a phenomenal player but Barca are currently a better team without him. Maybe that's a reflection on Tata not being able to utilise him. Pep has a way of getting the best out of players for the team e.g Lahm. Messi was always played in a way to maximise his effectiveness. Tata isn't as creative. But Messi, still doesn't do the leg work. It's a little petulant, if we're being honest. He even got booked today too, iirc.

To be honest I didn't see the game today as I had a game of my own (bad luck or good luck depending on how you view it I suppose) so I can't judge today, only what I've seen this season.

To bring this back into context, this is a player who has delivered 20 trophies for Barcelona. When Ronaldinho faded into obscurity and it seemed that Barcelona were on the verge of falling away again, he was the catalyst on the pitch, he was the main man, he stood up to be counted. He's from Argentina but he is a Barca boy, he's been at the club since he was a teenager, he's grown up at the club, he's grown up before the eyes of the Barcelona fans, he's grown up in the shadow of the Camp Nou. What I am getting at is this, in the aftermath of the second leg at Atletico the conduct of the board and the Catalan press was disgraceful, it was sickening. Here's a model professional whose given the club the greatest period in their history and yet he is accused of not trying a leg? It's suggested that he is on the Ronaldinho path to implosion? It was conduct unbecoming of those associated with Barcelona.

Was he at his best against Atletico? No, but I have sympathy with him for that, aimless, lofted crosses into the box, Tata must have thought he had Crouch and not Messi leading the line.

Yes the side did well in his absence but a functioning side, playing to his strengths and Messi at the top of his game is far greater than a side without Messi. The dilemma isn't Messi, it's the tactics, it's the growing rumbles of disgruntlement among the board and press against Messi. In my opinion, it isn't Messi that needs to be overhauled, it is the board and the current management regime.

Moneymaker

I honestly think that style of play when they were under their peak under Pep will be near impossible to replicate again at the level they were at. The players are older, and teams are wise to it now. For 2-3 years the stars aligned and they reached a level maybe 2-3 teams in the history of the game have ever reached.

Losing the likes of Abidal, Keita, Puyol and Villa has hurt them too. Song is woefully inadequate and Neymar has shown flashes, but generally has flattered to deceive.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The dilemma isn't Messi, it's the tactics, it's the growing rumbles of disgruntlement among the board and press against Messi. In my opinion, it isn't Messi that needs to be overhauled, it is the board and the current management regime.

Don't agree. I think his legs are starting to go. I've always said he'll start to decline at 27/28 due to his circumstances and the sheer amount of football he's played in the last 5 years or so.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

To be honest I didn't see the game today as I had a game of my own (bad luck or good luck depending on how you view it I suppose) so I can't judge today, only what I've seen this season.

To bring this back into context, this is a player who has delivered 20 trophies for Barcelona. When Ronaldinho faded into obscurity and it seemed that Barcelona were on the verge of falling away again, he was the catalyst on the pitch, he was the main man, he stood up to be counted. He's from Argentina but he is a Barca boy, he's been at the club since he was a teenager, he's grown up at the club, he's grown up before the eyes of the Barcelona fans, he's grown up in the shadow of the Camp Nou. What I am getting at is this, in the aftermath of the second leg at Atletico the conduct of the board and the Catalan press was disgraceful, it was sickening. Here's a model professional whose given the club the greatest period in their history and yet he is accused of not trying a leg? It's suggested that he is on the Ronaldinho path to implosion? It was conduct unbecoming of those associated with Barcelona.

Was he at his best against Atletico? No, but I have sympathy with him for that, aimless, lofted crosses into the box, Tata must have thought he had Crouch and not Messi leading the line.

Yes the side did well in his absence but a functioning side, playing to his strengths and Messi at the top of his game is far greater than a side without Messi. The dilemma isn't Messi, it's the tactics, it's the growing rumbles of disgruntlement among the board and press against Messi. In my opinion, it isn't Messi that needs to be overhauled, it is the board and the current management regime.

I think what most people have been more susprised by has been his attitude. He doesn't look up for it at a crucial stage of the season.

Dempsey

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It's suggested that he is on the Ronaldinho path to implosion? It was conduct unbecoming of those associated with Barcelona.

I got lambasted by my friends when I said Ronaldinho would be in decline before 30 and wouldnt go down as one of the greats as was thought at the time. I wont forget the criticism!

I dont think Messi is anywhere near that but I do think its a case of a change of scenery is required for him at this stage.

dreamers75

Dempsey wrote: »

I dont think Messi is anywhere near that but I do think its a case of a change of scenery is required for him at this stage.

Footballing wise where could he go to showcase himself?

Moneywise really only City or PSG that could afford him. 200 million buyout clause rumouringly.

And I dont see either of those as footballing powerhouses.

Andersonisgod

Dempsey wrote: »

I got lambasted by my friends when I said Ronaldinho would be in decline before 30 and wouldnt go down as one of the greats as was thought at the time. I wont forget the criticism!

I dont think Messi is anywhere near that but I do think its a case of a change of scenery is required for him at this stage.

if the board and media continue down the same line then a change of scenery might no longer be a fantasy.

Turtwig

Real Madrid. :pac:

Andersonisgod

Moneymaker wrote: »

I honestly think that style of play when they were under their peak under Pep will be near impossible to replicate again at the level they were at. The players are older, and teams are wise to it now. For 2-3 years the stars aligned and they reached a level maybe 2-3 teams in the history of the game have ever reached.

Losing the likes of Abidal, Keita, Puyol and Villa has hurt them too. Song is woefully inadequate and Neymar has shown flashes, but generally has flattered to deceive.



Don't agree. I think his legs are starting to go. I've always said he'll start to decline at 27/28 due to his circumstances and the sheer amount of football he's played in the last 5 years or so.

The key players are getting older and there are a few points you made that I'd debate but one simple question, where do you go after Messi?

MD1990

i think Messi is saving himself for the World Cup
he barely moves when he doesn't have the ball & is scared of pulling his hamstring again

Dempsey

dreamers75 wrote: »

Footballing wise where could he go to showcase himself?

Moneywise really only City or PSG that could afford him. 200 million buyout clause rumouringly.

And I dont see either of those as footballing powerhouses.

Plenty of clubs willing to break the bank for him, if he looks to leave Barca wont get anywhere near the buyout clause.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

if the board and media continue down the same line then a change of scenery might no longer be a fantasy.

The club itself is going through a troubling period, on and off the field. Whether he says publicly or not, he must be thinking about his future.

Moneymaker

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The key players are getting older and there are a few points you made that I'd debate but one simple question, where do you go after Messi?

You don't. A player like him at his best will never be.

LuckyLloyd

Messi's legacy hinges in many ways on the upcoming World Cup. If he continues his indifferent form and Argentina crash out of a South American World Cup with a whimper it will be pointed to as a slight question mark on his greatness in the decades, etc to come.

Barcelona have a good manager who had achieved his success with a very specific style of play. It seems mad to have hired him knowing this and then be somehow surprised at how he set his side out to play. I don't really know where they go after him tbh.

dreamers75

Costa to Chelsea seemingly done

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/chelsea-boss-jose-mourinho-agrees-e60m-fee-for-transfer-of-diego-costa-from-atletico-madrid-el-confidencial/

So Torres to Atletico ?

Y2KBOS86

Andersonisgod wrote: »

if the board and media continue down the same line then a change of scenery might no longer be a fantasy.

Bad idea imo.

Messi could easily go down the disinterested path of Ronaldinho, Kaka, Shevchenko etc if he were to leave.

Barca need to build again and get rid of the dead weight.

Fabregas is never going to work, he would command easily 40 million+ in this market.

It's no secret Messi has slowed down either, been discussed on Barca forums for the last year or two now.Injuries and games have taken there toll.He can still be remain the best player in the world ( he's that good ), but Barca's game will have to change to accommodate that.

Johner

Huge goal for Atletico.

Moneymaker

Godin has been massive for Atleti for years now.