Student grants to be slashed in Octobers Budget

BaylesOfHay

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/student-grants-to-be-slashed-in-awful-budget-29507493.html

Shocking. Let former TDS suck this country dry for their hundreds of thousands of euro pension. And TDS on 90k a week. They should all take a leaf out if Sinn feins book who's TDS are only aloud to draw to average industrial wage.

sganyfx

Education the one area they should be investing in is being cut, while benefit scroungers, EU immigrants with no jobs, and other money sinks such are left uncut.

spurious

Meanwhile many Irish towns STILL have three or four small second-level schools, triplicating and quadruplicating resources, while students face limited choices in subjects and levels.

No-one in the Department is really serious about saving money.

dharma200

Why are taxpayers paying for clerical abuse? Wtf is wrong with this place.

Sam Kade

Tbh this is another one of the kite flying exercises by the government which the media spout. Only way to know what cuts will happen is wait until after the budget.

LostBoy101

I wouldn't read into too much as it's only media speculation at this stage.

Long Term Louth

Grant cuts and increased registration fees have been an integral part of the previous budgets by Fine Gael/ Labour, no obvious reasons to suggest the next one will be any different.

Owryan

BaylesOfHay wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/student-grants-to-be-slashed-in-awful-budget-29507493.html

Shocking. Let former TDS suck this country dry for their hundreds of thousands of euro pension. And TDS on 90k a week. They should all take a leaf out if Sinn feins book who's TDS are only aloud to draw to average industrial wage.

They dont get paid 90k a week and SF tds draw the full salary but everything over the ave industrial wage goes to the party so they arent saving the state anything.

As for the grants, nothing is certain at this stage but as im hoping to goback to college after 21 years I hope its left well alone.

dharma200

Usually these propaganda articles are churned out before the budget, using words like 'slashed' etc. then what happens is the government make smaller cuts than anticipated, so the fear works, people panic, then are let down a little gentler and everyone thinks well that wasn't as bad as it could have been.. Also to add the independent is the least independent paper in the hemisphere and scaremongering like this is part and parcel with the governments theft from the people.

Long Term Louth

Owryan wrote: »

They dont get paid 90k a week and SF tds draw the full salary but everything over the ave industrial wage goes to the party so they arent saving the state anything.

As for the grants, nothing is certain at this stage but as im hoping to goback to college after 21 years I hope its left well alone.

Cuts to BTEA and other supports for mature students in the last couple of years, may make it difficult for you. Hopefully not!

Owryan

Long Term Louth wrote: »

Cuts to BTEA and other supports for mature students in the last couple of years, may make it difficult for you. Hopefully not!

Hopefully I ll escape, not going on btea and have my grant approved . So please god all I ll be worrying about is not being the the auld fella in the corner

Long Term Louth

Owryan wrote: »

Hopefully I ll escape, not going on btea and have my grant approved . So please god all I ll be worrying about is not being the the auld fella in the corner

Off topic I know, I just completed a degree in June gone, i'm over forty. There were people of all ages some over 60, so no bother to you.

Eurovisionmad

It is totally infuriating that we as students will have to suffer because the state must make up the shortfall in payments to survivors of clerical abuse (to whom I hold nothing against they're most certainly entitled to compensation!) because the religious orders aren't paying!

randylonghorn

sganyfx wrote: »

Education the one area they should be investing in is being cut

Agreed; well, not the *one* area, but certainly should be a priority.

sganyfx wrote: »

while benefit scroungers

I have no doubt there are scroungers out there, there always are, but there's a hell of a lot of people for whom there just aren't jobs too. One of the real problems to be addressed is that the system makes it too difficult to take up part-time work which might help them get back into full employment in the long-run; at the moment, taking up a part-time job would often mean that their overall income would drop significantly. Where's the sense in that?

sganyfx wrote: »

EU immigrants with no jobs

EU citizens are entitled to the same treatment here as Irish citizens in other EU countries. That's the law, and if it's changed, there would be a hell of a lot of Irish people abroad caught in the backlash, so it's a two-edged sword.

dharma200 wrote: »

Why are taxpayers paying for clerical abuse? Wtf is wrong with this place.

Because the state had a responsibility for the people in those institutions, often placed them there in fact, and then abrogated its responsibilities.

Eurovisionmad wrote: »

It is totally infuriating that we as students will have to suffer because the state must make up the shortfall in payments to survivors of clerical abuse (to whom I hold nothing against they're most certainly entitled to compensation!) because the religious orders aren't paying!

That's also a valid point though, the religious orders imo have not paid their share.

Sam Kade wrote: »

Tbh this is another one of the kite flying exercises by the government which the media spout. Only way to know what cuts will happen is wait until after the budget.

LostBoy101 wrote: »

I wouldn't read into too much as it's only media speculation at this stage.

dharma200 wrote: »

Usually these propaganda articles are churned out before the budget, using words like 'slashed' etc. then what happens is the government make smaller cuts than anticipated, so the fear works, people panic, then are let down a little gentler and everyone thinks well that wasn't as bad as it could have been.. Also to add the independent is the least independent paper in the hemisphere and scaremongering like this is part and parcel with the governments theft from the people.

Long Term Louth wrote: »

Grant cuts and increased registration fees have been an integral part of the previous budgets by Fine Gael/ Labour, no obvious reasons to suggest the next one will be any different.

Yep, it's kite-flying and scare tactics; they'll "leak" horrendous cuts, and then when the real cuts appear, everyone will say "it could have been worse, I suppose!"

Students and parents need to say "no" to the government in advance, loudly but in a dignified way that doesn't include throwing paint and stupid antics (by a minority usually) outside the Dáil or the Department.

Peregrine

BaylesOfHay wrote: »

And TDS on 90k a week.

Where are you getting that from?

BaylesOfHay wrote: »

They should all take a leaf out if Sinn feins book who's TDS are only aloud to draw to average industrial wage.

Woah woah where are you going with that?

As said previously. They take home average industrial wage, the rest is taken by their party to fund their stuff so they're no better. There are also many reports of many SF TDs being made to claim unspent travel expenses so that the party can hire additional staff. I really hope they don't take anything from that book..


Horribly written article as usual from the Independent. As randy said, kite flying tactic used by every government. Not really worth discussing until we see the actual budget in October.

Ricky91t

spurious wrote: »

Meanwhile many Irish towns STILL have three or four small second-level schools, triplicating and quadruplicating resources, while students face limited choices in subjects and levels.

No-one in the Department is really serious about saving money.

I had a quick look into this and the local secondary schools were combined into a 'super school', the value on the contractors website is €14.6million, so unless they have these funds to hand it's not exactly something they can just do tomorrow.

randylonghorn

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

As randy said, kite flying tactic used by every government. Not really worth discussing until we see the actual budget in October.

I actually disagree with you there, Nim.

Leave it until the budget is out, and the fight will be a lot harder. Pressure needs to be exerted before the budget in a dignified way, or they will just see it as an easy target.

Ricky91t wrote: »

I had a quick look into this and the local secondary schools were combined into a 'super school', the value on the contractors website is €14.6million, so unless they have these funds to hand it's not exactly something they can just do tomorrow.

There's truth in that too, Ricky, but releasing at least a few of those planned amalgamations would generate some construction jobs as well at a time when construction LABOUR costs at least are lower than they have been in decades.

Peregrine

randylonghorn wrote: »

I actually disagree with you there, Nim.

Leave it until the budget is out, and the fight will be a lot harder. Pressure needs to be exerted before the budget in a dignified way, or they will just see it as an easy target.

Yeah I should rephrase that. Definitely worth making your opinions heard and making sure they know this isn't welcome but way too early for this speculation to be taken as facts and screaming at each other about it :pac:

spurious

Useless fact from old person:

When I started teaching in 1984, a TD's salary was the same as that of a new teacher starting out full-time on the bottom of the scale.

Now TDs are paid more than three times as much as the starting salary of the very few new teachers who ever manage to find full time jobs.

The gombeens in Leinster House had their own priorities right alright and education wasn't ever anywhere in the running.

spurious

Ricky91t wrote: »

I had a quick look into this and the local secondary schools were combined into a 'super school', the value on the contractors website is €14.6million, so unless they have these funds to hand it's not exactly something they can just do tomorrow.

You don't need to build new premises, just take them off the orders and run them within one school campus. Most of the schools are within walking distance of each other anyway.

It would mean carrying some duplicate staff on payroll for a few years, but they could be redeployed to provide extra supports, less popular subjects, smaller classes etc.. Nobody in the DES looks at the big picture and they are too scared of the religious orders to tackle them.

Ricky91t

spurious wrote: »

You don't need to build new premises, just take them off the orders and run them within one school campus. Most of the schools are within walking distance of each other anyway.

It would mean carrying some duplicate staff on payroll for a few years, but they could be redeployed to provide extra supports, less popular subjects, smaller classes etc.. Nobody in the DES looks at the big picture and they are too scared of the religious orders to tackle them.

Well for schools in my area there was no way in hell they could be reduced down to one, they were barely big enough for the current number of students without adding students from another school.

hfallada

Something like 55% of Irish students get grants and some genuinely need them. However a large amount of people get grants due to creative accounting ie farmers and self employed business people. The government needs to identity who can afford to pay for their own college education. But there are large families who can barely afford to send their children to college due to the fact they "earn too much" but most of their income goes on a mortgage.

YoursSincerely

I wonder how many of these TD's making the cuts relied on student grants themselves? now they feel since they got their use out of them, future generations dont need them.

Days 298

hfallada wrote: »

Something like 55% of Irish students get grants and some genuinely need them. However a large amount of people get grants due to creative accounting ie farmers and self employed business people. The government needs to identity who can afford to pay for their own college education. But there are large families who can barely afford to send their children to college due to the fact they "earn too much" but most of their income goes on a mortgage.

Thatll be hard. What will happen when a family/businessman has large savings and a person in the same scenario spends all excess cash and all the cash they have irresponsible on expensive cars, foreign holidays. Surely they dont deserve as more assistance than. Family A "can afford" college and rent out of their saving yet Family B is financially irresponsible.

I believe it should be brought down for all. The Gov. , labour in particular, have brought in this rural vs urban divide, employed vs self employed as a way to distract from Quinn upping fees.
Everyone benefits from a a good education system. Its short sighted to make it a hassle/pain to go. Of course that doesn't matter. Fees will go up, means testing for reduced grants will get harder :mad:

randylonghorn

hfallada wrote: »

However a large amount of people get grants due to creative accounting ie farmers and self employed business people.

i.e. farmers and business people? So all farmers and self-employed people are rich and employ creative accounting, and only PAYE workers are poor and should be eligible for the grant?

Bullshít, tbh.

There are rich farmers, sure; they're not the majority by a long shot. There are rich self-employed people, and lots of damn poor ones, especially since the construction bubble burst. And there are PAYE workers who are damn good at "creative accounting" too.

And I say that as a PAYE worker, btw.

Peregrine

I don't agree with the self employed and farming bit but I do think there are a lot of people who could do without it and a lot of people who really needed it that didn't get it. My brother for example, we're family of four with one earner and a mortgage payment of around 2 grand a month and many others in similar situations was turned down because there was too much money coming into the house apparently Couldn't pay for it and eventually ended up not going the first year.

shootie

Yes, it is the government's fault things are the way they are. Yes, it is unfair that these TDs have huge pensions and high salaries, but what do we do about it? Jack ****. We've been too spoilt from growing up in the midst of the Celtic Tiger and are too afraid to get our hands dirty or to do anything that may scratch our pretty iPhone 5. Shut up complaining and start doing, make them consider education a priority.

Long Term Louth

All here have established that these educational cuts affect nearly all members of Irish society and the future of posterity.


Additionally, plenty of posts here advocating the need to take a stand against these cuts. However, have any organised events, as in protest marches etc or other concrete means, being actually organised? (these cuts began three years ago). In my experience people do a lot of complaining about these cuts, but when it comes to the implementation of action, the voices are generally silent.

mayoman1995

should be made like the UKs system where everyone is treated the same

Aksa94

If Quinn is looking to save €105million how about he takes away the €100 million or so that private schools receive in state aid. If people think there too good for public schools then they can pay for the full amount of their private education

randylonghorn

Aksa94 wrote: »

If Quinn is looking to save €105million how about he takes away the €100 million or so that private schools receive in state aid. If people think there too good for public schools then they can pay for the full amount of their private education

Then all these schools will transfer into the state system (as several have done already) and it will cost the state much more.

Believe me, that's the last thing he wants to happen right now, despite any party rhetoric he might come out with for the media.