Domestic game faces overhaul or extinction

Pedalstool

There's nothing unique about the challenges facing the League of Ireland. There's nothing particularly unfair about being next to the UK, nothing peculiar about competing with other popular sports and nothing unusual in the climate of the country.

Competing with televised coverage of high-quality sport is something that clubs everywhere have to deal with. The simple truth is that the league is offering senior football to a country full of football fanatics and most of the football fanatics aren't interested. Everything else is just noise.

League of Ireland clubs and supporters portraying themselves as downtrodden victims of circumstance and geography became tiresome years ago. It prevents meaningful discussion on how to develop the game or explore ways in which it can be improved, something I experienced at first hand during my time as the CEO with St Pat's.

During one of the club meetings I attended, the first ten minutes was used by one delegate to bemoan the political support afforded to the GAA and the coverage given to it by RTE. We then sat through another delegate's gripes that Irish newspapers were giving priority to Champions League games involving English clubs. The sports bulletins on the radio stations didn't lead with League of Ireland updates which was seen as a failing of the FAI marketing team. Actually, no matter what was on the agenda at the outset, there was always time put aside to mock the FAI for their lack of vision and leadership.

But there was always mention of the FIFA requirement to have a national domestic league in order to have a senior international team. It was difficult to listen to people sit on their hands and obstruct progress while proclaiming their importance to the greater good of Irish football. There would be no Ireland team if there was no League of Ireland, therefore the country and the FAI need to do something. However, there were varying levels of interest in exploring what that might be.

It was widely agreed that something radical needed to happen but self-interest was most clubs' priority. In any case, what exactly would radical change look like? Merge two clubs into one? Form new franchise clubs in provincial areas? Cut the first division adrift altogether and focus all efforts on maintaining a decent premier division? Form a breakaway premier division on a geographical basis? Form an All-Ireland league? If it's not radical, it's merely tinkering, and it's all been done before.

Former Galway United general manager Nick Leeson has his own view. "You're better off having something that's half-good in a smaller league, and regionalise the first division. All they've [FAI] been looking at over the last number of years is natural wastage. You've had a few clubs that have gone, Galway included. Waterford almost went this year, and whatever's happened with Monaghan. It would make far more sense to cull a few. You regionalise the first division and make it fully amateur."

But maybe it's not about coming up with the radical idea anymore. Maybe accepting the status quo would be more beneficial. "It's about knowing where you are, and I think sometimes the aspirations have been too high," says Leeson.

Fans of the league may believe they are vastly superior than Irish fans of English clubs but they wouldn't be the first set of supporters inflicted with an inflated sense of self-importance. Mocking those who attended last weekend's Dublin Decider in the Aviva Stadium gets nobody anywhere, except to portray those doing the mocking as cliquey, narrow-minded contrarians.

Last weekend, more than 50,000 people took the opportunity to see their heroes play live. The notion that they are in some way less authentic than League of Ireland fans allows those domestic fans who hold that view to feel victimised and superior simultaneously. The question they should be asking is why the league fails to capture the public's imagination in a country that, as the success of the Heineken Cup has shown, is desperate to be associated with Irish sporting stories.

It could also be taken as the latest in a long line of wake-up calls by the league and its fans. It was another demonstration of the appetite for live football in this country. The difficulties of doing business in Ireland go far beyond domestic football clubs but at least they have an enormous market to go after. Thinking up ways to attract them to games rather than sneering at them for staying away would be a far better use of their resources.

But it is difficult to come up with an initiative that would make a meaningful difference. "I'm not sure anything is workable, that's the unfortunate thing," says Leeson. "I'm pessimistic because I've been involved. You're always looking for that straw that you're clutching at to keep you going. And that's not good."

Leeson believes an increase in prize money would need to happen but past experience tells us that only drives up players' wages. The more you give a club, the more they spend on players. The Salary Cost Protocol could ensure that didn't happen but clubs will always look to find a way. Derry City were caught illegally paying their players in 2009 and even private agreements between clubs around that time didn't last.

"Clubs can't propose a unilateral salary cap. We tried to agree it ourselves if you remember, and Cork City broke it within 36 hours or something. That's the problem. If you leave the clubs to do it themselves, it just won't happen."

It was a specific example to illustrate a wider problem. Clubs cannot be asked to shape the future of Irish football because self-interest and survival are their priorities. It is the responsibility of the FAI but it requires long-term thinking. "Look at Connacht rugby and where they are now against where they were ten years ago," Leeson says. "Then look at where soccer clubs were ten years ago and where they are now. There's not too many have taken a forward step."

And ten years from now? As things stand, professional football will be a thing of the past in Ireland. Attendances will continue to decline and the numbers of new supporters attracted to the league will dwindle to almost nothing. There will be little investment in facilities because the funding will no longer be there. "Nobody's willing to put money behind it because the product isn't good enough. If you run it well you'll survive, but you'll never get rich".

Coverage on national television will be minimal, and sponsorship will consist of local businesses giving a leg-up to volunteer-run clubs watched by enthusiastic locals. Squads will return to being how the Donegal Gaelic football set-up was recently described before the appointment of Jim McGuinness as their manager – 'half football team, half stag party'. That's where this is heading.

The League of Ireland means a great deal to the people involved in it but they are getting fewer and fewer in number. Jeering those who choose to watch better players at foreign clubs playing superior football only makes League of Ireland fans sound like the kind of people most football fans would like to avoid. This opening weekend of the Premier League is an occasion of significance in the lives of the majority of Irish football fans. No date in the domestic calendar comes close.

The changes that might work would require a complete overhaul, the surrendering of power bases and the ending of petty rivalries. A franchised league controlled by the FAI with two clubs in Dublin and another eight to ten in cities and towns across the country could provide something people want to watch. Players could be centrally contracted and transfer fees from sales to foreign clubs would work much as they do in MLS with the money divided between the club and the league itself. Ultimately, the best young players in the country will gravitate towards the academies of these clubs.

These proposals were put to me last week and I believe they are worth exploring. However, the number of people who consider themselves to be powerful figures in the domestic game affected by them probably means they will never even be discussed. Yet radical change is needed or the League of Ireland will, in time, limp over the abyss.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/domestic-game-faces-overhaul-or-extinction-29507775.html

A thought provoking piece from Richie Sadlier that pulls no punches if you're an LOI fan.

CSF

Clubs have mostly stopped going bust. Surely we're going in the right direction away from 2 or 3 years ago when the relegation/promotion system was just there as a Plan B.

Pedalstool

The suggestion made in the last two paragraphs are something I would agree with but the likelihood of Dublin reducing its number of clubs to two is minimal.

The notion of centrally contracted players is something that seems to make a lot of sense.

dan1895

Ah the auld franchise model. Wheeled out every few months for fans to throw scorn on. Its not going to happen. Some fans support English/Scottish teams, some support Irish teams, some support both. So who is going to support these new franchises?

kksaints

No franchises! God I really hate that idea.

Lawrence1895

Pedalstool wrote: »

The suggestion made in the last two paragraphs are something I would agree with but the likelihood of Dublin reducing its number of clubs to two is minimal.

The notion of centrally contracted players is something that seems to make a lot of sense.

It's close to Zero, I would say. There is old rivalries around, which are in supporter's minds.

And 'franchise'? No to Red Bull Dublin :P

Pedalstool

Lars1916 wrote: »

It's close to Zero, I would say. There is old rivalries around, which are in supporter's minds.

And 'franchise'? No to Red Bull Dublin :P

What about centrally contracted players? Each regional club having an academy to bring through players?

Perhaps these are pie in the sky ideas but I think the writing is on the wall for the LOI unless some major reform takes place.

gimmick

Maybe it should be regionalised?

Pedalstool

gimmick wrote: »

Maybe it should be regionalised?

In an ideal world you have regional teams with central funding. Each region had an academy where young Irish players could receive quality coaching, perhaps developing more players, the very best of whom might be bought for substantial fees when they are 18-21.

The_Kew_Tour

Its sad to see the game here in big trouble..

If people only knew what they could be watching live every week or two.

dan1895

Pedalstool wrote: »

In an ideal world you have regional teams with central funding. Each region had an academy where young Irish players could receive quality coaching, perhaps developing more players, the very best of whom might be bought for substantial fees when they are 18-21.

That all takes money and time to achieve and there's not much money or patience around in Irish football.

Pedalstool

dan1895 wrote: »

That all takes money and time to achieve and there's not much money or patience around in Irish football.

I guess thats the problem isn't it.

CSF

Really wish Sadlier would **** off.

dan1895

Pedalstool wrote: »

I guess thats the problem isn't it.

Yep. In the short term the only hope I can see is a sponsor who genuinely has an interest in the sport. Volkswagen Ireland would be the only company I can think of.

Mr.Nice Guy

He makes interesting points but I don't think he focuses enough attention on the problem of Britain's shadow looming over Ireland and shaping our own internal talent.

Britain takes the best young Irish talent away from the country like a child plucking legs off an ant; eventually it will stop moving and slowly die. This needs to be stopped.

Someone on here had a good idea that involved UEFA introducing a rule that prevented the best young talent in a country from leaving its home jurisdiction until the age of eighteen. This would have the benefit of allowing the best young talent to be seen by Irish audiences in Irish grounds, and mean that our country could shape its own players and not be reliant upon England to do it for us.

Sadlier mentioned GAA and rugby - the best talent in GAA play in Ireland for Irish spectators. There are no rich London clubs taking top talent. Likewise in rugby, BOD, O'Connell and the other tops stars remain in Ireland with only few exceptions, like Sexton. If rugby clubs outside Ireland were to take the top stars away I've no doubt Leinster, Munster etc. would soon struggle.

We are an exporting nation. The young kids in this country dream of moves to England because they know they will get more money, prestige etc. by doing so. It's hard to convince the Irish public that the Irish league is worth investing time in when our own sporting talent doesn't believe that.

The League of Ireland is not going to be able to compete with the wealth on offer across the sea. This is why I think UEFA/FIFA need to act and place limits on English club's abilities to take our players. I think this would result in a boost to the numbers attending Irish clubs.

Is there talent in the league? Yes. But too much talent has been poached and put on show in England, and it's hardly surprising that Irish fans follow suit. Look at the interest Johnny Sexton has garnered by going to Racing Metro; look at the interest Robbie Keane has garnered for US football over here by going to the MLS.

How are the authorities in Ireland going to stop the inexorable tide of talent out of the country? How can they prevent this footballing brain drain? Until this problem is addressed and tackled, nothing will change.

Pedalstool

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its sad to see the game here in big trouble..

If people only knew what they could be watching live every week or two.

What do you mean? I think the quality of what is on offer is very poor. If it was very good, people would be watching it.

Will I Amnt

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If people only knew what they could be watching live every week or two.

Some would say that's why it's in trouble.

Ebbs

Pedalstool wrote: »

The suggestion made in the last two paragraphs are something I would agree with but the likelihood of Dublin reducing its number of clubs to two is minimal.
.

I never understood this, Rovers fans start supporting Pats, shels and bohs join together?

No chance any fan of either is going to do that. The majority of fans go to LoI games as their dad/uncle brought them as a child. You lose half the league support if you did this.

Lawrence1895

Pedalstool wrote: »

What do you mean? I think the quality of what is on offer is very poor. If it was very good, people would be watching it.

Some teams play some hoofball alright, but there is also some quality around (Dundalk's first half in Tolka, for example), you just have to appreciate it a bit more, imo

Pedalstool

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He makes interesting points but I don't think he focuses enough attention on the problem of Britain's shadow looming over Ireland and shaping our own internal talent.

Britain takes the best young Irish talent away from the country like a child plucking legs off an ant; eventually it will stop moving and slowly die. This needs to be stopped.

Someone on here had a good idea that involved UEFA introducing a rule that prevented the best young talent in a country from leaving its home jurisdiction until the age of eighteen. This would have the benefit of allowing the best young talent to be seen by Irish audiences in Irish grounds, and mean that our country could shape its own players and not be reliant upon England to do it for us.

Sadlier mentioned GAA and rugby - the best talent in GAA play in Ireland for Irish spectators. There are no rich London clubs taking top talent. Likewise in rugby, BOD, O'Connell and the other tops stars remain in Ireland with only few exceptions, like Sexton. If rugby clubs outside Ireland were to take the top stars away I've no doubt Leinster, Munster etc. would soon struggle.

We are an exporting nation. The young kids in this country dream of moves to England because they know they will get more money, prestige etc. by doing so. It's hard to convince the Irish public that the Irish league is worth investing time in when our own sporting talent doesn't believe that.

The League of Ireland is not going to be able to compete with the wealth on offer across the sea. This is why I think UEFA/FIFA need to act and place limits on English club's abilities to take our players. I think this would result in a boost to the numbers attending Irish clubs.

Is there talent in the league? Yes. But too much talent has been poached and put on show in England, and it's hardly surprising that Irish fans follow suit. Look at the interest Johnny Sexton has garnered by going to Racing Metro; look at the interest Robbie Keane has garnered for US football over here by going to the MLS.

How are the authorities in Ireland going to stop the inexorable tide of talent out of the country? How can they prevent this footballing brain drain? Until this problem is addressed and tackled, nothing will change.

I think you are on to something there. If you could keep the talent here til they were at least 18, the league would benefit hugely.

Amirani

Pedalstool wrote: »

What do you mean? I think the quality of what is on offer is very poor. If it was very good, people would be watching it.

Did all the LOI players playing in England just become decent when they moved across the water?

Pedalstool

Lars1916 wrote: »

Some teams play some hoofball alright, but there is also some quality around (Dundalk's first half in Tolka, for example), you just have to appreciate it a bit more, imo

I think sometimes football fans who might describe themselves as real football fans tend to forget that football is supposed to be entertainment.

You get 50,000 people watching Munster play Leinster because its gripping entertainment. You see 64,000 people today in Croke Park watching Clare play Limerick because its enthralling, exciting etc... The Premier league is very much like that too, thats why its watched by so many people all over the world.

Simply, the quality of entertainment on offer in the LOI just can't compete. How you go about changing that I'm not sure.

Amirani

Pedalstool wrote: »

I think sometimes football fans who might describe themselves as real football fans tend to forget that football is supposed to be entertainment.

You get 50,000 people watching Munster play Leinster because its gripping entertainment. You see 64,000 people today in Croke Park watching Clare play Limerick because its enthralling, exciting etc... The Premier league is very much like that too, thats why its watched by so many people all over the world.

Simply, the quality of entertainment on offer in the LOI just can't compete. How you go about changing that I'm not sure.

That's clearly subjective. You can be entertained by football at any level.

pablomakaveli

I absolutely hate the whole franchise idea. It's a real slap in the face to fans of those who support Irish clubs now.

Imagine suggesting that to fans of English clubs. Lets combine City and United to make a more powerful franchise club. They'd snap.

I do like the idea of the foreign clubs being unable to sign players from here till their 18. It would benefit the league here as well as the international team.

Amirani

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I do like the idea of the foreign clubs being unable to sign players from here till their 18. It would benefit the league here as well as the international team.

Such a rule would be illegal though.

Pedalstool

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's clearly subjective. You can be entertained by football at any level.

Yes but the league would be more successful surely if you can attract those fans who haven't got the kind of passion the hardcore of LOI fans have?

Will I Amnt

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I absolutely hate the whole franchise idea. It's a real slap in the face to fans of those who support Irish clubs now.

Imagine suggesting that to fans of English clubs. Lets combine City and United to make a more powerful franchise club. They'd snap.

I do like the idea of the foreign clubs being unable to sign players from here till their 18. It would benefit the league here as well as the international team.

You can't force a player to stay though.

MonkstownHoop

Pedalstool wrote: »

I think sometimes football fans who might describe themselves as real football fans tend to forget that football is supposed to be entertainment.

You get 50,000 people watching Munster play Leinster because its gripping entertainment. You see 64,000 people today in Croke Park watching Clare play Limerick because its enthralling, exciting etc... The Premier league is very much like that too, thats why its watched by so many people all over the world.

Simply, the quality of entertainment on offer in the LOI just can't compete. How you go about changing that I'm not sure.

if you filter through an entire EPL season you'll find plenty of dull games, but sky sports can manage to sell these games to the fans somehow, 'entertaining scoreless draw' even though it wasn't in the slightest

Amirani

Pedalstool wrote: »

Yes but the league would be more successful surely if you can attract those fans who haven't got the kind of passion the hardcore of LOI fans have?

Yeah, of course. I don't know how that's possible though. It's not possible to attempt to compete with the EPL on glamour and quality of football. Bigger leagues in bigger countries have problems doing this. The MLS for example.

The_Kew_Tour

Pedalstool wrote: »

What do you mean? I think the quality of what is on offer is very poor. If it was very good, people would be watching it.

have you been to many games?

Lawrence1895

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's clearly subjective. You can be entertained by football at any level.

But some don't appreciate a match, if there is no fancy and glamour surrounding it

Pedalstool

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

have you been to many games?

No. I'm afraid not. That said I'm from Offaly originally so there would be no team that I would have an affiliation to.

The_Kew_Tour

Pedalstool wrote: »

No. I'm afraid not. That said I'm from Offaly originally so there would be no team that I would have an affiliation to.

I dont have problem with that, but some to be making assumptions from what they hear rather than what they see..

LOI is not super league or anything, but I have been to Old Trafford too and seen some awful games.

I think if few more got behind it we have a solid league.

Andersonisgod

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

if you filter through an entire EPL season you'll find plenty of dull games, but sky sports can manage to sell these games to the fans somehow, 'entertaining scoreless draw' even though it wasn't in the slightest

Here's the thing though, if you got Brazil's starting number 10, Spain's starting number 9 and a few of their genius playmakers into the LOI then I'm sure more people would go and watch. As it is, the LOI will always pale in comparison to the gigantic shadow of the Premier League because of the gulf in class and quality and of course some terrific marketing.

Pedalstool

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I dont have problem with that, but some to be making assumptions from what they hear rather than what they see..

LOI is not super league or anything, but I have been to Old Trafford too and seen some awful games.

I think if few more got behind it we have a solid league.

I'm not one of the real football people like many here but I would love to see Ireland have a quality domestic league more of us could buy into.

That requires giving people something to invest in. The idea of regional teams might help that. Irish people by their nature have a fierce local pride. Perhaps they could tap into that?

Owen_S

It just seems like it's stuck in a circle of doom. A lack of interest due to an apparent lack of quality, and a lack of quality due to having f*** all money from the lack of interest.

Lawrence1895

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Here's the thing though, if you got Brazil's starting number 10, Spain's starting number 9 and a few of their genius playmakers into the LOI then I'm sure more people would go and watch. As it is, the LOI will always pale in comparison to the gigantic shadow of the Premier League because of the gulf in class and quality and of course some terrific marketing.

But supporters have to appreciate young domestic talent as well, appreciate the grass routes of football...even if some glamour player from Spain, Brazil, where ever, might attract new supporters.

kksaints

Pedalstool wrote: »

I'm not one of the real football people like many here but I would love to see Ireland have a quality domestic league more of us could buy into.

That requires giving people something to invest in. The idea of regional teams might help that. Irish people by their nature have a fierce local pride. Perhaps they could tap into that?

You would be surprised how quick local pride vanishes when a team is unsuccessful.

Pedalstool

kksaints wrote: »

You would be surprised how quick local pride vanishes when a team is unsuccessful.

Thats very true.

The_Kew_Tour

Pedalstool wrote: »

I'm not one of the real football people like many here but I would love to see Ireland have a quality domestic league more of us could buy into.

That requires giving people something to invest in. The idea of regional teams might help that. Irish people by their nature have a fierce local pride. Perhaps they could tap into that?

good points brought up.

I not sure regional teams would work, but never know.

In fairness if I was from Offaly I would find it hard to support LOI team too I guess.

I do know Kerry and Tipp lads who support Cork City, but I see what you mean.

Andersonisgod

Lars1916 wrote: »

But supporters have to appreciate young domestic talent as well, appreciate the grass routes of football...even if some glamour player from Spain, Brazil, where ever, might attract new supporters.

Sure but it's much easier to sell and market a league containing Oscar's, Soldado's, Mata', Silva's and Cazorla rather than a league of James Milner's, who is a fine, industrious player (and likely better than anything the LOI has to offer). Appreciating domestic talent is well and good but when the country struggles to produce technically proficient players and the best of them are often taken to England at a young age, that's when you have the problem that the LOI does.

Pedalstool

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

good points brought up.

I not sure regional teams would work, but never know.

In fairness if I was from Offaly I would find it hard to support LOI team too I guess.

I do know Kerry and Tipp lads who support Cork City, but I see what you mean.

Athlone Town is quite close but I would think to myself, I'm not going to watch a team from Westmeath. If there was a team in Tullamore sure. Even though its further away from me.

Perhaps thats not the brightest way of thinking.

Maybe its just impossible to do anything, just try and improve on whats already there.

The_Kew_Tour

Pedalstool wrote: »

Athlone Town is quite close but I would think to myself, I'm not going to watch a team from Westmeath. If there was a team in Tullamore sure. Even though its further away from me.

Perhaps thats not the brightest way of thinking.

Maybe its just impossible to do anything, just try and improve on whats already there.

I'd be in same boat if I was county with no team. Tullamore FC are not bad side think they are or least were in A league(not sure if even that is still going)

kksaints

Pedalstool wrote: »

Athlone Town is quite close but I would think to myself, I'm not going to watch a team from Westmeath. If there was a team in Tullamore sure. Even though its further away from me.

Perhaps thats not the brightest way of thinking.

Maybe its just impossible to do anything, just try and improve on whats already there.

There was an A championship team in Tullamore a few years back, pity the never made the jump up.

Lawrence1895

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Sure but it's much easier to sell and market a league containing Oscar's, Soldado's, Mata', Silva's and Cazorla rather than a league of James Milner's, who is a fine, industrious player (and likely better than anything the LOI has to offer). Appreciating domestic talent is well and good but when the country struggles to produce technically proficient players and the best of them are often taken to England at a young age, that's when you have the problem that the LOI does.

Maybe that's why Shels (not sure about other clubs) have introduced 'Coerver Coaching'. It's a decent enough model...but as you said, the prospect of England is very strong indeed.

kksaints

Just looking up the A championship and there was 4 teams in it that never stepped up to the first division. FC Carlow, Tullamore Town FC, Castlebar Celtic and Tralee Dynamos. Do these teams still exist in the junior leagues? Shame that none of them could make it into the first division.

Richard Hillman

It's a very hard league to sell tbh. I don't think foreign leagues are the real competition though. There is very little football on Friday nights to compete with the LOI.

The real competition is Friday night itself, whether it be going to the pub, staying in top watch a film, bowling etc etc

I have reduced my attendances at games of late due to the fact I found better things to do on Friday nights than go to LOI matches. I can go to a bowling alley that does BYOB for the cost of 10 quid and the price of my beer. Its far more enjoyable than paying €15 into see Shelbourne. On Thursday nights Leopardstown RC costs €15 in and you get top see a known musical act after the racing. Through the later months and earlier games Leinster play on a few Friday nights. You can get tickets for these matches for €20. This is one of the best teams in the world that are renowned worldwide for their entertaining rugby for €5 more than it costs to see Shelbourne/Bohs/UCD and the likes.

I am just not seeing value for money with the LOI. I rarely leave a game anymore saying to myself "That was a great game of football".

In terms of the standard of football, I think the televised games this year are enough top turn anybody off. I just don't think low standard football will ever take off in Ireland. It needs to be different both on and off the pitch.

Madworld

Sadlier raises may fair points. There is a persecution complex amongst League of Ireland fans. Fans often feel sorry for themselves and blame external factors like the GAA for the lack of support in the League. I also agree that the league suffers from a lack of long term strategic planning often caused by petty internal league politics.

I personally believe the chances of a franchised league succeeding in Ireland is very remote. That's not to say it's non-existent though. One could point to the success of the MLS, A-League and Leinster & Munster in attracting fans.

Taking for example the MLS & A-League. Both these leagues are set in countries whereby their franchises are set in cities whose population is often larger than the whole of Ireland. So the first issue in creating a franchise with no traditions is our population limitations.
These new franchises will also suffer from the fact they have no history. They'll have no existing fanbase. People who follow Man Utd will still follow Man Utd and supporters of League of Ireland clubs will probably never darken the doors of the North Dublin Blues or the Waterford Warriors.

So this leaves only one avenue for the League to actually grow and attract fans and that's through renewed success on a European level similar to Leinster Rugby. Any decline in these franchise's fortunes will see dwindling support similar to what Munster is experiencing at the moment.

The number one factor in achieving this success is money. Celtic are a team that get into the Champion's League group stages on a semi-regular basis. I'm aware that the below figures are not completely accurate but Celtic's squad is valued at €40m and they're wage bill is probably another €20-€30m in salaries.
http://bit.ly/1dk4yrv

So around €60m would be required to make only one franchise successful on a European Level ignoring the other nine franchises in the proposed league.

The FAI could never afford to implement a such a franchised system. Private investors would have no incentive to invest if the money was to be put back into the clubs and they could derive no profit from the venture. Even if some sort of profit sharing system were to be put in place who in their right mind would put in €60m into an investment with such low level of returns taking at least ten years to derive any profit?

I'd use the failed Welsh regions in rugby as the perfect example as to why this could never work. They replaced their club systems with a regionalised franchise model and it's failed.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic here but I don't believe franchising could never work in Ireland due to population, finance and support-base constraints.

DazMarz

I also think there's a big problem with when kids are in school. There are schools where the whole sporting ethos is built around rugby or GAA. I do not know of many school where there is a huge emphasis upon football.

Sure, schools will have a football team or whatever. But the true emphasis will be placed upon the school's rugby team or the schools Gaelic Football/Hurling team. The school-level rugby/GAA competitions are superb and well organised. I do not know if there are any inter-school football competitions. I'm sure there are, but I do not know of any in or around the area I'm in.

In Ireland, both GAA and Rugby have much firmer grassroots and youth set ups than football does. From what I've seen anyway.

As far as I can tell most people are happy with the summer football, personally it doesn't suit me and it's usually between 8 and 9 in the evening when I remember there's a match on and I wouldn't have minded popping along to it.

I gotta say as well, seeing the crowd leaving for the "Dublin Decider" a few weeks ago did actually annoy me. There were probably more people leaving Dundalk to go to it than the crowds Dundalk were getting a few years ago. If I really did care I imagine it would have greatly annoyed me. :pac:

Keeping talent within the country and getting the FAI to get their finger out are the two things that would help massively. Someone running the website would be nice as well, went on to check the results about 5 hours after they were done and half hadn't been updated on the front page. If the old media won't cover it then they should at least try to get the simple things done themselves.

Madworld

gimmick wrote: »

Maybe it should be regionalised?

Regionalisation is a good idea in theory.
If areas could get local lads playing for their clubs they'd be more likely to support their team like they would their local county team.

The problem is though that the best players in the country are from Dublin and the best athletes in these counties play GAA. So we'd still have the problems of poor quality football.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He makes interesting points but I don't think he focuses enough attention on the problem of Britain's shadow looming over Ireland and shaping our own internal talent.

Britain takes the best young Irish talent away from the country like a child plucking legs off an ant; eventually it will stop moving and slowly die. This needs to be stopped.

Someone on here had a good idea that involved UEFA introducing a rule that prevented the best young talent in a country from leaving its home jurisdiction until the age of eighteen. This would have the benefit of allowing the best young talent to be seen by Irish audiences in Irish grounds, and mean that our country could shape its own players and not be reliant upon England to do it for us.

Again in theory it's a great idea but it's got two problems. Firstly it would be illegal for UEFA to create such a rule as it would be against E.U. law.

Secondly it would be impossible to police because if Man Utd wanted Joe Bloggs who was under 18 they could organise a great job for Joe Blogg's father and they just accidentally got the player they wanted.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Sadlier mentioned GAA and rugby - the best talent in GAA play in Ireland for Irish spectators. There are no rich London clubs taking top talent. Likewise in rugby, BOD, O'Connell and the other tops stars remain in Ireland with only few exceptions, like Sexton. If rugby clubs outside Ireland were to take the top stars away I've no doubt Leinster, Munster etc. would soon struggle.

There is actually an issue within the GAA with much of the top young talent being lured away to Boston every summer for substantial sums.
The very top players like Brogan & Cooper stay because of the money they make in endorsements from the likes of Lucozade & Addidas.

As rugby becomes more globalised & professional there's a very real chance of the said scenario happening with more players leaving Ireland for the likes of France & Japan where the money is far superior.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

We are an exporting nation. The young kids in this country dream of moves to England because they know they will get more money, prestige etc. by doing so. It's hard to convince the Irish public that the Irish league is worth investing time in when our own sporting talent doesn't believe that.

Right I'm not one of these people who normally blames externalities for the failings of our league. However Junior Football is absolutely parasitic to the development of football in this country.

It served a purpose before when the Premier League was only importing talent from the Britain & Ireland. However that's not the case any more. The likes of Kevins & Home Farm just send as many players over as they can in order to maximise their transfer fees.

The sad reality is though that they're sending over hundreds of lonely fifteen year olds to England before they get an education. They come back to Ireland disillusioned with football and most of them share you're mentality that they couldn't bee seen to be playing in the League of Ireland and eventually fade out of football with no real career prospects.

If you look at the young player who have broken through to the National Team recently, the majority of them are League of Ireland graduates who went over later in life.
One thing the league can and should actually pursue is point out to these young lads they are now more likely to succeed by staying at home and get an education before they head over to England.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The League of Ireland is not going to be able to compete with the wealth on offer across the sea. This is why I think UEFA/FIFA need to act and place limits on English club's abilities to take our players. I think this would result in a boost to the numbers attending Irish clubs.

Is there talent in the league? Yes. But too much talent has been poached and put on show in England, and it's hardly surprising that Irish fans follow suit. Look at the interest Johnny Sexton has garnered by going to Racing Metro; look at the interest Robbie Keane has garnered for US football over here by going to the MLS.

How are the authorities in Ireland going to stop the inexorable tide of talent out of the country? How can they prevent this footballing brain drain? Until this problem is addressed and tackled, nothing will change.

Again this is impossible for the reasons outlined above regarding E.U. law.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Here's the thing though, if you got Brazil's starting number 10, Spain's starting number 9 and a few of their genius playmakers into the LOI then I'm sure more people would go and watch. As it is, the LOI will always pale in comparison to the gigantic shadow of the Premier League because of the gulf in class and quality and of course some terrific marketing.

I'm not trying to be pedantic here but how do you propose an Irish team could afford a Brazilian international?