Domestic game faces overhaul or extinction

Andersonisgod

Madworld wrote: »

Regionalisation is a good idea in theory.
If areas could get local lads playing for their clubs they'd be more likely to support their team like they would their local county team.

The problem is though that the best players in the country are from Dublin and the best athletes in these counties play GAA. So we'd still have the problems of poor quality football.



Again in theory it's a great idea but it's got two problems. Firstly it would be illegal for UEFA to create such a rule as it would be against E.U. law.

Secondly it would be impossible to police because if Man Utd wanted Joe Bloggs who was under 18 they could organise a great job for Joe Blogg's father and they just accidentally got the player they wanted.



There is actually an issue within the GAA with much of the top young talent being lured away to Boston every summer for substantial sums.
The very top players like Brogan & Cooper stay because of the money they make in endorsements from the likes of Lucozade & Addidas.

As rugby becomes more globalised & professional there's a very real chance of the said scenario happening with more players leaving Ireland for the likes of France & Japan where the money is far superior.



Right I'm not one of these people who normally blames externalities for the failings of our league. However Junior Football is absolutely parasitic to the development of football in this country.

It served a purpose before when the Premier League was only importing talent from the Britain & Ireland. However that's not the case any more. The likes of Kevins & Home Farm just send as many players over as they can in order to maximise their transfer fees.

The sad reality is though that they're sending over hundreds of lonely fifteen year olds to England before they get an education. They come back to Ireland disillusioned with football and most of them share you're mentality that they couldn't bee seen to be playing in the League of Ireland and eventually fade out of football with no real career prospects.

If you look at the young player who have broken through to the National Team recently, the majority of them are League of Ireland graduates who went over later in life.
One thing the league can and should actually pursue is point out to these young lads they are now more likely to succeed by staying at home and get an education before they head over to England.


Again this is impossible for the reasons outlined above regarding E.U. law.

I'm not trying to be pedantic here but how do you propose an Irish team could afford a Brazilian international?

I'm not proposing that they do, I am simply pointing out what the LOI is up against and pointing out a reason why Irish fans may enjoy the Premier League more than the LOI.

Madworld

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It's a very hard league to sell tbh. I don't think foreign leagues are the real competition though. There is very little football on Friday nights to compete with the LOI.

The real competition is Friday night itself, whether it be going to the pub, staying in top watch a film, bowling etc etc

I have reduced my attendances at games of late due to the fact I found better things to do on Friday nights than go to LOI matches. I can go to a bowling alley that does BYOB for the cost of 10 quid and the price of my beer. Its far more enjoyable than paying €15 into see Shelbourne. On Thursday nights Leopardstown RC costs €15 in and you get top see a known musical act after the racing. Through the later months and earlier games Leinster play on a few Friday nights. You can get tickets for these matches for €20. This is one of the best teams in the world that are renowned worldwide for their entertaining rugby for €5 more than it costs to see Shelbourne/Bohs/UCD and the likes.

I am just not seeing value for money with the LOI. I rarely leave a game anymore saying to myself "That was a great game of football".

In terms of the standard of football, I think the televised games this year are enough top turn anybody off. I just don't think low standard football will ever take off in Ireland. It needs to be different both on and off the pitch.

I'd agree with you over the whole entertainment package. In reality due to the size of the country we could never compete with England, Spain etc. in terms of the quality on the pitch.

This is where I'd lover to see us be able to really improve the quality of the entertainment of it. I brought three friends to the Bohs - Rover match on Friday night.

The atmosphere in the Jodi was electric the whole game and they couldn't get over how so few people could make so much noise compared to crowds at a Dublin or Leinster match.
They're mad to come to out next game against Pats. I'm personally kind of dreading bringing them because of the fact the atmosphere at the match will be nothing like the Rovers one and they're more than likely not going to come again afterwards.

If we want to get people along the atmosphere is what's going to get them in. I'd equate going to a match as opposed to watching it on telly as being similar to pulling on a night out or watching porn. Jenna Jameson might be nicer to look at than some random bird at four a clock in coppers but it's not the same thing as the real experience.

Again this is probably likely to never happen but it would be great if we were allowed to create more an atmosphere at game. If clubs were allowed to have certain cordoned off parts of the stand away from families where we could have pyro displays similar to the continent without getting fined.
Other thing like designated club funds towards fan displays would be helpful. In the short term I genuinely believe that the atmosphere created off the pitch is a better selling point than comparing it to the EPL.

Madworld

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'm not proposing that they do, I am simply pointing out what the LOI is up against and pointing out a reason why Irish fans may enjoy the Premier League more than the LOI.

It is part of the reason I'd agree. However it's also an issue in other small countries like Denmark bordering Germany.

There's no Soldado or Oscar playing in the league yet they average 6,700 a game with FC København averaging 15,000. I'd love to see the day an Irish team could rival 15,000 a game.

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

DM_7

Pedalstool wrote: »

I think you are on to something there. If you could keep the talent here til they were at least 18, the league would benefit hugely.

I am not sure it would, all it would do is see young lads agreeing to join English clubs at 18. Is a league with more 16 & 17 year olds, even the 18, 19 & 20 going to attract more people to league grounds? I don't think so.

StephenHendry

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

have you been to many games?

+ 1

you can only play at a level you're capable of and this applies to teams as well so if if both teams in our league play to their best of their respective abilities, then that surely that the most you can hope for .

the 2 epl games yesterday weren't the best i've seen , chelsea hull game being marginally better than the spurs game.

Fr Tod Umptious

Sadlier makes some good points about the attitudes of current fans towards people who do not follow the league but he then seems to run out of time coming up with a solution.
It would have been better if he spent more of the article proposing the solution.

Anyway I previously thought regional franchising was the way forward, but if you look at the market in Ireland in reality there are not that many people, and not that much disposable income around the country to really sustain a well supported league with regional teams.

The solution I believe is at a European level.
Even though I have no interest in rugby something like the Celtic League may work.
A few teams in Scotland, Ireland, NI, Wales etc.
It would be a lower tier of league below a top level (top English, Spanish, german etc), and below a Dutch\Belgan\Scandanivian league etc.

Obvious all this would have to happen as part of a major reorg of the current UEFA setup.

Madworld wrote: »

There is actually an issue within the GAA with much of the top young talent being lured away to Boston every summer for substantial sums.
The very top players like Brogan & Cooper stay because of the money they make in endorsements from the likes of Lucozade & Addidas.

This IS BS by the way, if the US was so lucrative for good young players they would not even be making themselves available for their county teams.
The US GAA usually involves guys who have been dropped early from county panels, guys for teams that have exited the championship early and on the very very odd occasion a high profile player, who gets everything paid for him.

Prop Joe

Pedalstool wrote: »

The notion of centrally contracted players is something that seems to make a lot of sense.

+100%

Essien

How does central contracting work? Like who decides how much a player earns?

geeky

Sadlier makes a lot of good points, and the idea of centrally contracted players makes sense.

I'd disagree with the notion of merging the Dublin clubs, however - they're some of the most consistently supported teams and, with better management, the most sustainable.

I think, before framing any grand national plans, people need to realise that live professional football is effectively a regional game here: few people outside the east coast or large urban areas will pay to see it. Just ask Monaghan.

Getting centrally contracted players and a salary cap, with some level of security about wages and less under-the-counter dealing, will go a long way to keeping young talent in the country by itself.

overshoot

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The solution I believe is at a European level.
Even though I have no interest in rugby something like the Celtic League may work.
A few teams in Scotland, Ireland, NI, Wales etc.
It would be a lower tier of league below a top level (top English, Spanish, german etc), and below a Dutch\Belgan\Scandanivian league etc.

Obvious all this would have to happen as part of a major reorg of the current UEFA setup.

I can never really see this happening is the problem. they only place the glasgow teams will go is the english league and after that there isnt any crowd pullers. Wales/NI would also have to franchise but wales would have the larger problem of 2 premier league teams acting as crowd pullers. Cant see the benelux/scandanavian teams being able to partake either as the distance is too far, and i doubt they would want to jeopardise their champions league spots.

that leave us basically fending for ourselves, or an All Ireland league max but the irish league isnt in such good shape that its an instant cure.

when also brings the issue of regionalisation, if we are on our own how to we even have enough teams for a league? we cant divided it up be province and after that is becomes how do i support a team for a neighbouring county. im not sure removing teams will increase gates.

while the league can improve its never going to be a "top" league which automatically runs us into an issue with the 'i watch the epl because its better quality'.

Id continue with the existing clubs & rearrange the league structure, 16 team premier & 10 team north/south first division. whether is new teams or A premier teams. Promotion has to improve, the bohs fans after the shamrock game should be pushed. we berate the lack of news paper coverage but they have a product to sell & it costs. could the LOI clubs make some sort of pull out themselves? with clubs writing reports/opinion pieces. give this to the Sindo, sunday times. There is plenty off quality in the league, we just need to show it.

get the FAI off their asses for a bit of help, internationals down to their LOI clubs, theres plenty of ex LOI and theyd happily do it. Id be in favour of a free into an LOI game with your international ticket, (plenty will buy programs, use the shop etc. some would be there anyway, a lot more would not so 1e for a bar would be more than you could get anyway. would be an interesting trial imo)

schools programs, plenty have them but they seem to dry up a bit in summer, swap to underage teams of local clubs. theyre properly interested in football, make noise

stop this real fans ****e, its just insulting the people we NEED to attract. gaas "nothing beats being there" gets the point across

Essien wrote: »

How does central contracting work? Like who decides how much a player earns?

cant see how it can work in LOI, it works in rugby as they players also play for Ireland and then are unavailable with player management programs so the IRFU pay a chunk of their wages. Pienaar, Muller, Nacewa were never centrally contracted. i think theres actually only about 20 that are
unless there was a draft system but given wages, plenty having families/other jobs people wont be able to move around the country that easy

Fr Tod Umptious

geeky wrote: »

Sadlier makes a lot of good points, and the idea of centrally contracted players makes sense.

I'd disagree with the notion of merging the Dublin clubs, however - they're some of the most consistently supported teams and, with better management, the most sustainable.

I think, before framing any grand national plans, people need to realise that live professional football is effectively a regional game here: few people outside the east coast or large urban areas will pay to see it. Just ask Monaghan.

Getting centrally contracted players and a salary cap, with some level of security about wages and less under-the-counter dealing, will go a long way to keeping young talent in the country by itself.

That's why I don't believe a regional franchise system would work. The interest is just not there in a lot of places to make it sustainable.

Fr Tod Umptious

overshoot wrote: »

I can never really see this happening is the problem. they only place the glasgow teams will go is the english league and after that there isnt any crowd pullers. Wales/NI would also have to franchise but wales would have the larger problem of 2 premier league teams acting as crowd pullers. Cant see the benelux/scandanavian teams being able to partake either as the distance is too far, and i doubt they would want to jeopardise their champions league spots.....

But it would be part of a whole reorganisation within UEFA, so one one would be worried about jeopardising their champions league spots, as the whole structure would change

What Ireland would be in would be a third or fourth tier league, with the lesser lights of Scotland and Wales, NI and possibly a few English stragglers
The whole idea would be that it would be competitive and sustainable.

I don't expect it to happen.

Prop Joe

Ok here is an idea,Not saying it's a solution but it's an idea.

Start a new league with 12 regional teams but start it at u-14 level...Get facilities and coaching up to high qualitiy standard,Bring in big name coaches,Brian Kerr,Jeff Kenna,Maybe the likes of Kenny Cunningham,Ray Houghton could contribute to a franchise.

Build these teams over the next 6/7 years,With a league and cup competition.

We see how well minor GAA teams are supported,Over time these guys/Clubs would start gathering a following and then in 8 years time,You have fully functioning league with a support built up over time.

Players would all be centrally contracted by the FAI (from u-18 onwards)

Franchises would be regionailised with generic names not tied to any county.(i.e Na Fianna,Cú Chulainns,Brian Boru's)

Dublin x 2
Cork
Galway
Limerick
Kildare/Laois
Donegal/Derry
Louth/Meath/Cavan/Monaghan
Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford
Sligo/Mayo/Rosscommon/Leitrim
Carlow/Wexford/Wicklow
Offaly/Westmeath/Longford

The key to building support in these franchises is through schools who all kids will want to play for there local franchise..plus parents,smaller clubs etc..would all feed into this...Also there would need to be a spread of facilitates throughout the counties.

For example take Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford Franchise...They would play there home games in Buckley Park,Train at the RSC and another venue in Tipp..Just to spread it around the area..Kinda like Munster rugby who used to train in Cork and play matches in Thomand,It would not be unusual to see Munster train in regional club grounds as well as one offs to gain popularity.

GLaDOS

As many have said, I detest the idea of a franchised league. Do that and you'll push away substantial amount of the hardcore base that is keeping the current league alive, leaving very little behind.

Fr Tod Umptious

Prop Joe wrote: »

Ok here is an idea,Not saying it's a solution but it's an idea.

Start a new league with 14 regional teams but start it at u-14 level...Get facilities and coaching up to high qualitiy standard,Bring in big name coaches,Brian Kerr,Jeff Kenna,Maybe the likes of Kenny Cunningham,Ray Houghton could contribute to a franchise.

Build these teams over the next 6/7 years,With a league and cup competition.

We see how well minor GAA teams are supported,Over time these guys/Clubs would start gathering a following and then in 8 years time,You have fully functioning league with a support built up over time.

Players would all be centrally contracted by the FAI (from u-18 onwards)

Franchises would be regionailised with generic names not tied to any county.(i.e Na Fianna,Cú Chulainns,Brian Boru's)

Dublin x 2
Cork
Galway
Limerick
Antrim
Kildare/Meath
Donegal/Derry/Tyrone
Down/Louth/Armagh
Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford
Sligo/Mayo/Rosscommon/Leitrim
Carlow/Wexford/Wicklow
Laois/Offaly/Westmeath
Fermanagh/Monaghan/Longford/Cavan

The key to building support in these franchises is through schools who all kids will want to play for there local franchise..plus parents,smaller clubs etc..would all feed into this...Also there would need to be a spread of facilitates throughout the counties.

For example take Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford Franchise...They would play there home games in Buckley Park,Train at the RSC and another venue in Tipp..Just to spread it around the area..Kinda like Munster rugby who used to train in Cork and play matches in Thomand,It would not be unusual to see Munster train in regional club grounds as well as one offs to gain popularity.

you need to get rid of the Northern element, it's one thing to restructure the league of Ireland, it's another thing to merge two associations.

Prop Joe

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

you need to get rid of the Northern element, it's one thing to restructure the league of Ireland, it's another thing to merge two associations.

Correct,sometimes i forget how silly it is there is 2 associations in this country.

I have edited previous post

kksaints

Prop Joe wrote: »

Ok here is an idea,Not saying it's a solution but it's an idea.

Start a new league with 12 regional teams but start it at u-14 level...Get facilities and coaching up to high qualitiy standard,Bring in big name coaches,Brian Kerr,Jeff Kenna,Maybe the likes of Kenny Cunningham,Ray Houghton could contribute to a franchise.

Build these teams over the next 6/7 years,With a league and cup competition.

We see how well minor GAA teams are supported,Over time these guys/Clubs would start gathering a following and then in 8 years time,You have fully functioning league with a support built up over time.

Players would all be centrally contracted by the FAI (from u-18 onwards)

Franchises would be regionailised with generic names not tied to any county.(i.e Na Fianna,Cú Chulainns,Brian Boru's)

Dublin x 2
Cork
Galway
Limerick
Kildare/Laois
Donegal/Derry
Louth/Meath/Cavan/Monaghan
Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford
Sligo/Mayo/Rosscommon/Leitrim
Carlow/Wexford/Wicklow
Offaly/Westmeath/Longford

The key to building support in these franchises is through schools who all kids will want to play for there local franchise..plus parents,smaller clubs etc..would all feed into this...Also there would need to be a spread of facilitates throughout the counties.

For example take Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford Franchise...They would play there home games in Buckley Park,Train at the RSC and another venue in Tipp..Just to spread it around the area..Kinda like Munster rugby who used to train in Cork and play matches in Thomand,It would not be unusual to see Munster train in regional club grounds as well as one offs to gain popularity.

Jeff Kenna was in the league a few years ago. It didnt go very well.

Also no offense but your idea is very idealistic. There is no chance a South East franchise would work. People from KK/Tipp/Waterford just wouldnt go to another county to watch a match. Also clubs already have youth teams at u-19 level and minor teams support is often misleading, yes they get decent crowds at finals level but for other matches its mostly families and friends.

I dont like the franchise idea in general. There is too much history in the current teams to just throw away on a very big gamble that chances are wont work.

Gavin "shels"

kksaints wrote: »

Just looking up the A championship and there was 4 teams in it that never stepped up to the first division. FC Carlow, Tullamore Town FC, Castlebar Celtic and Tralee Dynamos. Do these teams still exist in the junior leagues? Shame that none of them could make it into the first division.

Look at Salthill, they can't wait till the end of the season to leave the League. The FAI need to scrap their registration fee, simple as!

Prop Joe wrote: »

Ok here is an idea,Not saying it's a solution but it's an idea.

Start a new league with 12 regional teams but start it at u-14 level...Get facilities and coaching up to high qualitiy standard,Bring in big name coaches,Brian Kerr,Jeff Kenna,Maybe the likes of Kenny Cunningham,Ray Houghton could contribute to a franchise.

Build these teams over the next 6/7 years,With a league and cup competition.

We see how well minor GAA teams are supported,Over time these guys/Clubs would start gathering a following and then in 8 years time,You have fully functioning league with a support built up over time.

Players would all be centrally contracted by the FAI (from u-18 onwards)

Franchises would be regionailised with generic names not tied to any county.(i.e Na Fianna,Cú Chulainns,Brian Boru's)

Dublin x 2
Cork
Galway
Limerick
Kildare/Laois
Donegal/Derry
Louth/Meath/Cavan/Monaghan
Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford
Sligo/Mayo/Rosscommon/Leitrim
Carlow/Wexford/Wicklow
Offaly/Westmeath/Longford

The key to building support in these franchises is through schools who all kids will want to play for there local franchise..plus parents,smaller clubs etc..would all feed into this...Also there would need to be a spread of facilitates throughout the counties.

For example take Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford Franchise...They would play there home games in Buckley Park,Train at the RSC and another venue in Tipp..Just to spread it around the area..Kinda like Munster rugby who used to train in Cork and play matches in Thomand,It would not be unusual to see Munster train in regional club grounds as well as one offs to gain popularity.

Whatever you're smoking, I'll have some of it!

losthorizon

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

How are the authorities in Ireland going to stop the inexorable tide of talent out of the country? How can they prevent this footballing brain drain? Until this problem is addressed and tackled, nothing will change.

A lot of interesting points in your post but I really dont think the footballing brain drain (as you term it) is any different in Ireland to the vast majority of nations in UEFA even in the world. They all graduate towards the richest nations. Its the same in Sweden, Norway, Lithuania or even Brazil. Its just that in Ireland we dont have a football going public anymore - its that simple.

Take the forum here - a friendly match involving an English team from a lower league and there is a murmur of excitement but I wonder if many of the posters on here have actually even been to a competitive match?

Everybody is always predicting the end of the LOI - it never happens. Whats more important is how healthy it will be. My guess is it will still have its ups and downs. Its on a down at the moment like the economy but hopefully it will recover. I do hope that someday we will have a league with a fair few full time teams.

Oat23

If the league does go extinct, I'd rather see Sligo Rovers play local league football than have them merge into some franchise bollocks.

Prop Joe wrote: »

Sligo/Mayo/Rosscommon/Leitrim

Roscommon and Leitrim? They don't even know what soccer is.

oldyouth

I wouldn't travel to the RSC from Wexford every 2 weeks to watch a franchise side. I wouldn't feel any connection to it. There is something to be said for a regional 1st division. An example of current impracticality is that Youths played Finn Harps 5 times this year, which is a hell of a burden on both sides

Scrap the entry fee, FAI to support new clubs coming into the league and improvement in facilities is the only way forward

The_Kew_Tour

Entry fee is joke alright.

DerekDGoldfish

I don’t see why so many suggestions of the solution to the problems of the league involve merging the 4 big Dublin teams to two, the 4 Dublin sides are all among the top 5 in terms of league titles (Dundalk being the other) and approximately 1/4 to 1/3 of the total population of the Country live in the greater Dublin area so I don’t see an issue with it providing 1/4 of the teams.


IF and its a big IF, the new model worked, having only two sides in Dublin to split this new improved local soccer fanbase, 2 teams splitting all the Dublin based players, would result in a massive competitive advantage for these two sides and the league titles/challenges would be even more Dublin dominated than it is now.


A league with upgraded stadia, centrally contracted players, proper controls on spending, an improved relationship with junior sides would be an improvement on the current league (which I still very much enjoy) but nobody has the money or interest to invest in it now or likely never will.


There is no magic, quick fix, white knight solution, the only solution is endless decades of hard (and probably fruitless) work by those that love football in this country (and I'm not saying only LOI fans love football most involved at other levels do also) to see the game they loved being played where they can watch it by players who can afford to live of it and to leave something of a game for the next generation to fall in love with as much as we have.


There will never be an Irish Champions League winning team, an Irish team competing in a superleague or bastardised "Celtic League", I would like to think that one day we can have a sustainable league with 5 or 6 thousands at games , Irish teams competing in the group stages of the Champions League or Europa League and not getting hammered, Irish players getting into the national side before they had got on the magic aeroplane but until then I will continue to support a league that has given me so much joy (and a hell of a lot of pain) for the last 20 years or so I have been going to games.

oldyouth

I've no problem with the number of Dublin clubs, it the lack of representation from far too many regions is the issue. However, you can't force football into an area where there is no interest but you can remove barriers where there is

Ferris_Bueller

It would wreck your head trying to come up with a solution for the league, there genuinely is no quick fix solution. I don't think the franchising would work, in theory it might be a good idea but if you are scrapping clubs like Bohs, Rovers, Dundalk etc. who have a consistent (albeit small) fan base and have a history behind them, you are just going to lose your best supporters. I definitely agree with everyone who says the first division should be made fully amatuer and probably regionalised, scrap the entry fee too, lower costs will make it more appealing for clubs to join. I think that is a big problem in itself, that some of our biggest schoolboy/junior clubs are happy where they are, and see entering the league as a risk financially.

Clubs are starting to link up with colleges a bit more lately, which is great to see, but I really think this should be done by every club where possible. If you can offer a 17 year old a good standard of coaching, playing at the highest domestic standard available and a degree at the same time, surely this will make more lads consider staying here until they are 21/22 before moving over to England. Jake Carroll is the latest example of this, stayed with Pats until he finished his degree and got a taste of playing European football too. I know this won't be what saves our league, but IMO it is a realistic option for all clubs to get in place, and if every club could even produce one Jake Carroll every year or two they would be doing well.

Improving facilities is a solution that is often mentioned, and while I agree it is much more appealing to go watch a match in a decent ground rather than in a field in the middle of nowhere, would it improve crowds enough to make it worthwhile financially? Haven't been there myself, but apparently Athlones new ground is a nice little stadium, but have their crowds really improved that much? Maybe they have this year, but I would suggest that is more so got to do with the fact that they are winning matches and challenging for promotion.

A few years ago platinum one were linked with taking over the league, does anyone think this is worth a try? What's the worst/best case scenario if they did take it over?

Prop Joe

oldyouth wrote: »

I wouldn't travel to the RSC from Wexford every 2 weeks to watch a franchise side. I wouldn't feel any connection to it.

If the league does go extinct, I'd rather see Sligo Rovers play local league football than have them merge into some franchise bollocks.

Sligo/Mayo/Rosscommon/Leitrim
Roscommon and Leitrim? They don't even know what soccer is.


But to be honest guys this isnt about the current fans,This is about kids growing up and possibly getting a chance to play with there local franchise,This will garner support over 10/15 years

doncarlos

Prop Joe wrote: »

Ok here is an idea,Not saying it's a solution but it's an idea.

Start a new league with 12 regional teams but start it at u-14 level...Get facilities and coaching up to high qualitiy standard,Bring in big name coaches,Brian Kerr,Jeff Kenna,Maybe the likes of Kenny Cunningham,Ray Houghton could contribute to a franchise.

Build these teams over the next 6/7 years,With a league and cup competition.

We see how well minor GAA teams are supported,Over time these guys/Clubs would start gathering a following and then in 8 years time,You have fully functioning league with a support built up over time.

Players would all be centrally contracted by the FAI (from u-18 onwards)

Franchises would be regionailised with generic names not tied to any county.(i.e Na Fianna,Cú Chulainns,Brian Boru's)

Dublin x 2
Cork
Galway
Limerick
Kildare/Laois
Donegal/Derry
Louth/Meath/Cavan/Monaghan
Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford
Sligo/Mayo/Rosscommon/Leitrim
Carlow/Wexford/Wicklow
Offaly/Westmeath/Longford

The key to building support in these franchises is through schools who all kids will want to play for there local franchise..plus parents,smaller clubs etc..would all feed into this...Also there would need to be a spread of facilitates throughout the counties.

For example take Kilkenny/Tipp/Waterford Franchise...They would play there home games in Buckley Park,Train at the RSC and another venue in Tipp..Just to spread it around the area..Kinda like Munster rugby who used to train in Cork and play matches in Thomand,It would not be unusual to see Munster train in regional club grounds as well as one offs to gain popularity.

You do realise the fans of LOI clubs would never support any of these franchises. These fans are the only ones that currently follow senior soccer in this country. So you are losing tens of thousands of match going supporters straight away. Where are all these new fans going to come from? Do you really think naming a club Dublin Celtic or Na Fianna, is going to get non match going fans to suddenly start going to matches?? Pie in the sky stuff

Prop Joe

doncarlos wrote: »

You do realise the fans of LOI clubs would never support any of these franchises. These fans are the only ones that currently follow senior soccer in this country. So you are losing tens of thousands of match going supporters straight away. Where are all these new fans going to come from? Do you really think naming a club Dublin Celtic or Na Fianna, is going to get non match going fans to suddenly start going to matches?? Pie in the sky stuff

What i am saying is if you started these clubs as underage teams say begin at u-14,These would be the elite clubs at this level,and by the time they hit over 21's they should have a little bit of a following.

doncarlos

Prop Joe wrote: »

What i am saying is if you started these clubs as underage teams say begin at u-14,These would be the elite clubs at this level,and by the time they hit over 21's they should have a little bit of a following.

A little bit? Friends and family of players isn't enough to support a professional league in this country.

Prop Joe

doncarlos wrote: »

A little bit? Friends and family of players isn't enough to support a professional league in this country.

:rolleyes:

doncarlos

Prop Joe wrote: »

:rolleyes:

What a well thought out retort. In fairness it did make a lot more sense than your previous posts.

Lovely Bloke

Prop Joe, sheeeeiiitttt, that is a bad idea.

overshoot

right two genuine question to all those supporting franchise FCs...

considering the league would lose fans to start with, and so the quality would degrade further, what in gods earth is going to draw any new fans to the league? especially if the quality, for want of a better saying is already beneath them in terms of the entertainment value put on it.

why must this be done with new clubs?

why would this new club be any different from the hundreds of junior clubs and their underage sides around the country whose turnstiles arent exactly at breaking point?

why would these junior clubs hand over their best players?

and finally for the love of god who is going to pay? as the FAI certainly dont give a crap, and even if they did they couldnt afford to

Prop Joe

Jaysus,Again i said it was an idea if the league went down the franchise route...Whatever way we look at it the league's main aim should be trying to produce top players who can move overseas and possibly leave behind a tasty transfer fee.

Maybe we should look at having some form of rule where there must be x amount of u-23 players in the matchday squad

Amirani

Prop Joe wrote: »

Jaysus,Again i said it was an idea if the league went down the franchise route...Whatever way we look at it the league's main aim should be trying to produce top players who can move overseas and possibly leave behind a tasty transfer fee.

It's an idea that's been raised many times. It's not going to work, there's no history of it working. There's far bigger issues inhibiting the growth of the game here that would render this useless and counter-productive.

Prop Joe

overshoot wrote: »

right two genuine question to all those supporting franchise FCs...

considering the league would lose fans to start with, what in gods earth is going to draw any new fans to the league

When MK Dons started out they struggled with attendances but now they have a healthy attendance record and the most teenage season ticket holders in the Football League,This would work for the next generation not this one.

StephenHendry

Prop Joe wrote: »

When MK Dons started out they struggled with attendances but now they have a healthy attendance record and the most teenage season ticket holders in the Football League,This would work for the next generation not this one.

the franchise you are referring to joe was at the expense of wimbledon who had their league position taken from them , hardly a ringing endorsement of the franchise route.

Fr Tod Umptious

I am not convinced of the regional franchise idea, basically because I don't think there is the critical mass of population to sustain it outside of Dublin

However I also do not believe that a franchise system, in which ever shape or form it may take, will automatically alienate anyone who has ever gone to a LOI game as some people are suggesting.
Yes there will be die hards who will not support a new team, but there will also be others will will say 'feck it, football is football I'm going anyway' and others who will be attracted to a new team, like the next generation as Prop Joe is suggesting.

Doe anyone have any empirical evidence of how this has worked in Australia ?

Fr Tod Umptious

StephenHendry wrote: »

the franchise you are referring to joe was at the expense of wimbledon who had their league position taken from them , hardly a ringing endorsement of the franchise route.

Why the sad face for Wimbeldon ?
They had feck all fans in the first place, they have a new football league club there now and MK Dons are putting bums on seats in the third tier, so I don't see what the big deal is

Amirani

Prop Joe wrote: »

When MK Dons started out they struggled with attendances but now they have a healthy attendance record and the most teenage season ticket holders in the Football League,This would work for the next generation not this one.

If Milton Keynes was in Ireland, it would be the second biggest city in the country. It was a large area with no traditional football teams, hence no fans to disillusion. It started at a reasonably high level in the English league system.

It's not really a fair comparison to use.

Amirani

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Why the sad face for Wimbeldon ?
They had feck all fans in the first place, they have a new football league club there now and MK Dons are putting bums on seats in the third tier, so I don't see what the big deal is

You know that Milton Keynes isn't at all close to Wimbledon?

Fr Tod Umptious

NiallSparky wrote: »

You know that Milton Keynes isn't at all close to Wimbledon?

I do, but that does not answer my question
What is the big deal with the other posters sad face over Wimbeldon ?

Amirani

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I do, but that does not answer my question
What is the big deal with the other posters sad face over Wimbeldon ?

Wimbledon fans were hardly going to be satisfied with being told to go support a team that's miles away from where he lives. Perhaps the other poster was a Wimbledon fan? I know I'd be very upset if my local team got relocated in a similar fashion.

doncarlos

Prop Joe wrote: »

When MK Dons started out they struggled with attendances but now they have a healthy attendance record and the most teenage season ticket holders in the Football League,This would work for the next generation not this one.

Milton Keynes
Population 229,941
Attendance at last game 6911
Percentage of population at game 3%

Dundalk
Population 37,816
Attendance at last game 3,031
Percentage of population at last game 8%

Yes franchise football seems to be working well.

Quazzie

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

good points brought up.

I not sure regional teams would work, but never know.

In fairness if I was from Offaly I would find it hard to support LOI team too I guess.

I do know Kerry and Tipp lads who support Cork City, but I see what you mean.

I'm from Offaly, and for the first time on the 30th I'm going to head over to Athlone Town and watch them play Wexford Youth. It'll be the first game of it's type I'll have gone to in ten years, and that's simply a regional thing. I couldn't justify traveling to Dublin to watch games of a team I feel no connection to. Athlone though is less than half an hour for me, so I'm gonna head down with the young lad and watch a game. Who knows. I might even like it.

GLaDOS

Something of a Rebuttal to the piece in the OP

http://backpagefootball.com/defending-the-league-of-ireland/61921/

It’s that time of year again, the beginning of the English Premier League season, preceded recently by a glamour friendly played in the Aviva Stadium (in this case Liverpool v Celtic in the Dublin Decider) and the time is ripe for that hoary old chestnut of the “barstooler” versus the “real fan” to be brought up. Similar articles were published in the newspapers some three years ago on the occasion of the match between an Airtricity League XI and Manchester United shortly after the re-opening of Lansdowne Road as the Aviva Stadium.

Why I was moved to put pen to paper (or more accurately fingers to keyboard) on the issue was the query raised in recent articles as to whether League of Ireland supporters would “be happy to have their regular seats taken up by the blow-ins without complaining about where they were five years ago?” and whether these supporters have “a genuine desire to see greater crowds at games”. The image painted of the average League of Ireland fan is one of close-minded insularity, if not a form of downright aggressive exclusionism. It seems to be posited in the piece that a League of Ireland supporter would actively discourage new fans supporters from attending a match in some sort of desperate attempt to safeguard a cliquish intimacy in preference to larger crowds and a more financially healthy football club. These quotes from Aidan O’Hara’s piece in the Irish Independent were followed up by former St. Patrick’s Athletic CEO Richie Sadlier a few days later, with these choice words about the behaviour of League of Ireland fans. According to Sadlier, “jeering those who choose to watch better players at foreign clubs playing superior football only makes League of Ireland fans sound like the kind of people most football fans would like to avoid”.

Before we look at this a little further, a confession; I’ve been to Old Trafford, and Anfield, Goodison Park, Camp Nou, San Siro, plenty of different stadiums to see the great names of European football. I was also in Lansdowne Road for the “Dublin Decider” as a result of the generosity of an organisation that regularly works with the company that employs me. What’s more, I got to sit in an executive box. In short, I was both barstooler and prawn sandwich muncher (as a side note, there were neither stools nor prawn sandwiches provided to me). So how can I possibly reconcile this with membership of my local League of Ireland team? Quite easily. I’m a football fan. I was offered a ticket to a match, I didn’t have anything on, so I went to the game. Because I love the game, I of course want to see the best players. Living in Ireland we have relative ease of access to any number of high quality European leagues, and I feel no guilt what so ever in wanting to see Bayern Munich or Real Madrid play live. But crucially I feel that in this regard is that I’m no different from the majority of League of Ireland fans.

I wonder how the journalists who penned the quotes above arrived at a point where they questioned whether local fans would rather have smaller crowds (and consequently have financially struggling clubs playing worse football) rather than welcome new fans to a ground. I’ll use Bohemians as an example, simply because they’re the club I’m most familiar with; the Dalymount club bars screened the “Dublin Decider” for those that couldn’t get tickets, they ran drinks promotions and offers to encourage people into the club. This is not unique, the club does this for Ireland games, the final of the African Cup of Nations, and many other matches. Why? Because they want people to come into the stadium, have a drink in the bar and maybe come back next week to see a game. Many people I know from League of Ireland matches have an English team. I know of two Bohemians members who went to the recent Shamrock Rovers v Aston Villa friendly simply because one of them was a big Villa fan. Let’s just look at that for a second: a Bohs member willingly contributed money to Shamrock Rovers because he is also a Villa fan and nobody was calling him a barstooler. Another Bohemians Member, very active in fundraising for the supporters trust, is a life-long Chelsea fan who regularly travels to Stamford Bridge. I also counted plenty of Liverpool and Man Utd jerseys and tops in the crowd at the recent Bohs versus Rovers derby. Were they new fans coming along for a big game or were they regulars who supported an English team? Well, they were a mixture of both and, most importantly, nobody really cared.

The exclusionary bigot League of Ireland fan, which is so often the pejorative image portrayed, is really very rare. Obviously, as with any football club, there are those loud and condescending fans who attract attention on Twitter or on messageboards (who were, perhaps, the basis of both previously mentioned articles) but, happily, in my own experience, they are very much in the minority. As a regular attendee of League of Ireland games, I can confirm that the overwhelming majority of fans are hugely welcoming to new people in the stadium. In fact, most League of Ireland fans are pretty much unpaid part-time salespeople for their clubs, encouraging people to games, putting up posters, and doing leaflet drops amongst other things. I can say that I have witnessed many of these types of people in grounds up and down the country, including those clubs that I’ve had the pleasure to visit north of the border as part of Setanta Cup games. It is interesting to note that while Sadlier made reference to Pat’s fans making complaints and whinging about the FAI, the GAA and other groups for their clubs shortcomings, in his article he never mentioned the unpaid volunteers who give so much to every League of Ireland club. As a former CEO of St. Pat’s, one can only assume that he was aware of the existence of such people and must have encountered them in his role?

In fact if you take a look around the message boards of certain larger English premier league clubs you can find plenty of posts where local fans wax lyrical about Irish visitors to games. The Irish are often either a figure of fun, derided for their attempts to portray themselves as a real Scouser or Mancunian etc. or are viewed as a nuisance along with other foreign fans who are viewed as being partially responsible for pricing out or excluding local supporters. There is also the slightly more generous view taken by some season ticket holders who see Irish and other foreign fans as a handy market for tickets to less attractive ties, a good source of income for those unwanted tickets for Crystal Palace’s visit. Again this is not to say that this is a view held by all UK-based English Premier League clubs but I would argue it is as prevalent of the League of Ireland bigot that seems to be exclusively referenced in the articles mentioned.

The recent O’Hara article further suggested that schools (which are closed for the summer months of the season lest we forget) and soccer camps should be targeted by League of Ireland clubs as a potential source of new fans, and that free or discounted tickets should be distributed. I can honestly say I don’t know of a club that doesn’t do something like this already. In fact, most have done so for years. Going back to the Bohemians example again; at pretty much every game there is a schoolboy or girl match at half-time featuring local teams.

While there are myriad flaws in the domestic game in Ireland, and Sadlier’s article does highlight a good number and offer some solutions, there is much that goes under-reported, or, in this case, misrepresented. There is often criticism in the media of John Delaney and the FAI, however this type of criticism tends to have a narrow focus centred around the International senior team and management, and little comment is passed on how the league is run or promoted or that the CEO’s salary is several multiples the size of prize money given to the League champions (a reported salary of €340,000 versus prize money of €100,000). It is also seldom noted that the while our senior league is a summer one, all schoolboy football runs on the old calendar, and that rather than providing a logical progression route to senior league football, the football pyramid in Ireland is hugely dysfunctional and riven with competing interests.

When criticising the league in future, and there are many valid criticisms to be made, it would be far more constructive for well-known figures like O’Hara and particularly Sadlier to address them by avoiding perpetuating lazy cliches by the examples of Twitter loudmouths who unequivocally do not represent their entire club or league, and provide a bit of context for the clubs’ various struggles. If there is a problem with our league I find it surprising and illogical for two pieces in a national newspaper to highlight the league’s supporters as a common problem, as though the people who support the league both emotionally and financially are its major drawback. The problem with the league is its fans, not lack of investement, proper youth structure or mismanagment apparently?

There is a power relations dynamic here: if the Manchester United fan is derided as a barstooler by a Cork City fan, does it really mean that much? The Man Utd fan has blanket media coverage and a broad Irish footballing consensus that sees them as normal or valued. The Cork City fan has little wide scale media coverage, and in addition, occasional digs from the press that he or she is in fact the problem that is holding back their team or league. He or she will be asked who they support and when they answer “Cork City”, will usually be met with a confused stare or at best a follow up question: “No, who do you really support? In England?”

If some fans become precious or insular about their domestic league, I don’t agree with them but at least I do understand them; as these two articles prove, they’re told they are inferior or backward on a regular basis. While we all accept that there are some mouths in League of Ireland circles, it bears re-emphasising that the vast majority of supporters are very welcoming and would only be too happy to see new supporters take a seat in your local stadium. I’ve written before about the benefits that are to be had from watching a game live, so I don’t want to re-tread old ground. However, suffice to say that for many reasons, watching a game live is a richer experience, and I think that a curious and open-minded football fan can find these experiences, even in the less glamorous domestic league.

oldyouth

Quazzie wrote: »

I'm from Offaly, and for the first time on the 30th I'm going to head over to Athlone Town and watch them play Wexford Youth. It'll be the first game of it's type I'll have gone to in ten years, and that's simply a regional thing. I couldn't justify traveling to Dublin to watch games of a team I feel no connection to. Athlone though is less than half an hour for me, so I'm gonna head down with the young lad and watch a game. Who knows. I might even like it.

That will be a good game to go to. Easy access, comfortable stand, good facilities, Athlone going for the title, Youths causing an upset etc.

Should be a good atmosphere. welcome back to LOI

BTW, I have the game down for the 31st. Must check it out

Quazzie

oldyouth wrote: »

That will be a good game to go to. Easy access, comfortable stand, good facilities, Athlone going for the title, Youths causing an upset etc.

Should be a good atmosphere. welcome back to LOI

BTW, I have the game down for the 31st. Must check it out

It's on their website as 30th @ 19.45 LINK

oldyouth

Quazzie wrote: »

It's on their website as 30th @ 19.45 LINK

I see that and it's on Extratime.ie as the 30th also. I just have an online diary that has it for the Saturday. Odds are that mine is wrong

srfc19

Quazzie wrote: »

I'm from Offaly, and for the first time on the 30th I'm going to head over to Athlone Town and watch them play Wexford Youth. It'll be the first game of it's type I'll have gone to in ten years, and that's simply a regional thing. I couldn't justify traveling to Dublin to watch games of a team I feel no connection to. Athlone though is less than half an hour for me, so I'm gonna head down with the young lad and watch a game. Who knows. I might even like it.

I'm really surprised there has been no backlash to this.

I thought LOI hated new fans coming to matches and would do their utmost to make them feel unwelcome. :rolleyes:

Enjoy it, hopefully Athlone will be in the Premier Division next year, grand trip from Shligo.