John Giles Dream Teams

Prufrock

I finished reading John Giles The Great and The Good and at the end he creates two dream teams he would like to see play each other. The teams are:

TEAM A

Iker Casillas
Carlos Alberto
Franz Beckenbauer
Franco Baresi
Paolo Maldini
Jairzinho
Xavi Hernandez
Gunter Netzer
Andres Iniesta
Lionel Messi
Pele

TEAM B

Peter Schmeichel
Lilian Thuram
Giacinto Facchetti
Fabio Cannavaro
Marcel Desailly
Luis Figo
Andrea Pirlo
Zinedine Zindane
Johan Cryuff
Diego Maradona
Ferenc Puskas

So how would you line up both teams to get the best out of them? Also who would win with both teams playing the formation you create for them?

Seaneh

Fabio Cannavaro, Peter Schmeichel and Lilian Thuram and has no place on either team.

Seaneh

As for the teams, the second teams front 6 is marginally better than the firsts, but the firsts back 4 is infinitely better than the seconds so I reckon team one shades the match by a goal.

greeno

Quick look and no Ronaldo or Best. Madness

GavRedKing

I think Team A have a better defensive unit but Team B have great attacking options.

I'd go with for Team A:

---

Casillas

---

---

Beckenbauer

---

C.Alberto----Baresi

---

Maldini

---

Netzer

---

---

Xavi

---

Iniesta----

Jairzinho

---

Pele

---

Messi


Lack of width but with a Maldini and Alberto in their primes that would be sorted with their surging runs up the touch line, Beckenbauer and Baresi were both excellent footballers to and could carry the ball from deep, Beckenbauer was a great Sweeper who could attack from deep when needed. Netzer, although I dont know too much about him he was held in high regard and was the Pirlo of his generation, not much needs to be said about Xavi and Iniesta really and Messi would occupy a floating free role behind Pele, in that front two alone you have about 1300 career goals.



Team B :

---

Schmeichel

---

Thuram--Desailly--Cannavaro--Facchetti

---

Pirlo

---

Figo

---

Zindane---Maradona

---

Cryuff

---

Puskas

---

Team B strength and weakness lies in its attacking options, only Pirlo is the most recognised of CM's out of the team. A 4-1-4-1 with Zidane and Maradona dropping into help Pirlo when they didnt have the ball would certainly help out, going forward they would be very hard to stop, pace, trickery, a goal threat and a real cutting edge between Maradona, Puskas and Cruyff and thats before ya mention Zidane or Figo, Thuram and Fiachetti again 2 of the top FB's in the game and with Cannavaro and Desailly at CB theyed have a solid frame to work on and again ahve two excellent readers of the game.

Id probably give it to Team A, just to nick it but it would be one hell of a game.

I'd probably make a few changes to Team B, I'd have Buffon over Schemichel and I'd have Nesta over Cannavaro, I'd also pick Guillt over Figo for better balance and more of a defensive awareness and work rate from out wide.

DoctorGonzo08

GavRedKing wrote: »

I think Team A have a better defensive unit but Team B have great attacking options.

I'd go with for Team A:

---

Casillas

---

---

Beckenbauer

---

C.Alberto----Baresi

---

Maldini

---

Netzer

---

---

Xavi

---

Iniesta----

---

Messi

---

Pele

---

Lack of width but with a Maldini and Alberto in their primes that would be sorted with their surging runs up the touch line, Beckenbauer and Baresi were both excellent footballers to and could carry the ball from deep, Beckenbauer was a great Sweeper who could attack from deep when needed. Netzer, although I dont know too much about him he was held in high regard and was the Pirlo of his generation, not much needs to be said about Xavi and Iniesta really and Messi would occupy a floating free role behind Pele, in that front two alone you have about 1300 career goals.



Team B :

---

Schmeichel

---

Thuram--Desailly--Cannavaro--Facchetti

---

Pirlo

---

Figo

---

Zindane---Maradona

---

Cryuff

---

Puskas

---

Team B strength and weakness lies in its attacking options, only Pirlo is the most recognised of CM's out of the team. A 4-1-4-1 with Zidane and Maradona dropping into help Pirlo when they didnt have the ball would certainly help out, going forward they would be very hard to stop, pace, trickery, a goal threat and a real cutting edge between Maradona, Puskas and Cruyff and thats before ya mention Zidane or Figo, Thuram and Fiachetti again 2 of the top FB's in the game and with Cannavaro and Desailly at CB theyed have a solid frame to work on and again ahve two excellent readers of the game.

Id probably give it to Team A, just to nick it but it would be one hell of a game.

I'd probably make a few changes to Team B, I'd have Buffon over Schemichel and I'd have Nesta over Cannavaro, I'd also pick Guillt over Figo for better balance and more of a defensive awareness and work rate from out wide.

10 v 11? Jairzinho must have been suspended :P

Seaneh

Schmeichel for Buffon, Cannavaro for Nesta, Figo for Gullit and Thuram for Cafu would be my changes to team B.

The_Kew_Tour

Schmeichel deserves to be there comfortably

GavRedKing

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

10 v 11? Jairzinho must have been suspended :P

:pac: :P

bullvine

I am not so sure about Pirlo, great player that he has been but I'd have Platini in there ahead of him.

As for Schmeichel, the ABU mentally is embarrassing at this stage. He revolutionized goalkeeping in the 90's and was the main reason Denmark won the Euros in 92.

The_Kew_Tour

bullvine wrote: »

As for Schmeichel, the ABU mentally is embarrassing at this stage. He revolutionized goalkeeping in the 90's and was the main reason Denmark won the Euros in 92.

I agree different planet to any keeper today.

No other United player in top 10 teams I would not blink but Schmeichel was best by country mile.

Seaneh

bullvine wrote: »

I am not so sure about Pirlo, great player that he has been but I'd have Platini in there ahead of him.

As for Schmeichel, the ABU mentally is embarrassing at this stage. He revolutionized goalkeeping in the 90's and was the main reason Denmark won the Euros in 92.

The best to ever do it has something for ya.

Footoo

Seaneh wrote: »

Schmeichel for Buffon, Cannavaro for Nesta, Figo for Gullit and Thuram for Cafu would be my changes to team B.

All 'flip of a coin' decisions in fairness.

Personally I'd take Giles players apart from Buffon.

GavRedKing

bullvine wrote: »

I am not so sure about Pirlo, great player that he has been but I'd have Platini in there ahead of him.

As for Schmeichel, the ABU mentally is embarrassing at this stage. He revolutionized goalkeeping in the 90's and was the main reason Denmark won the Euros in 92.

No one best ever XI will be agreed upon though thats what makes them good, everyone will have a different version or variation.

If I was picking I'd probably have both Ronaldos invovled somewhere.

Nothing about being an ABU but I'd rather Buffon or even Yashin, Casillas isnt nailed on either but his record is outstanding at international level and that alone should probably see him line out for either team given he hasnt conceded in the WC final and both Euro finals.

Seaneh

Two to best, of all time, period.

The_Kew_Tour

Seaneh wrote: »

The best to ever do it has something for ya.

]

I love Buffon I really do especially after his kind gestures to Ireland fans at Euros.

One of greatest ever without question.

Better than the great Dane? Don't make me laugh.

Seaneh

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I love Buffon I really do especially after his kind gestures to Ireland fans at Euros.

One of greatest ever without question.

Better than the great Dane? Don't make me laugh.

He wasn't just better than Schmeichel, he was a LOT better than him.

Schmeichel is just another Cantona.

Very good player but never the best and United fans totally over rate him.
He played for United when the EPL was, to be frank, ****e, for the majority of his time there and Denmark's fluke at Euro '92 is usually used as some sort of thrump card when reality is, they didn't even actually qualify because they conceeded too many goals in the qualifiers and if not for Yugoslavia being kicked out wouldn't have been in the tournament. The most important players in that Danish team were the Laudrup brothers, not Schmeichel.

SweepTheLeg

Both Ronaldos should be on there.

Seaneh

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

Both Ronaldos should be on there.

Where do you fit them though?

Who loses out on either team?

I can see why you could have C. Ronaldo ahead of Figo, but imo, that team needs a DM beside pirlo so Figo is out anyway for me. But can real Ronaldo be ahead of Puskas? That's a hard call.

The_Kew_Tour

Seaneh wrote: »

He wasn't just better than Schmeichel, he was a LOT better than him.

Schmeichel is just another Cantona.

Fair enough you think Buffon is better than Schmeichel . can live with that.

But what you said there is the biggest load of cock **** I have ever read and on baords and that is some achievement.

Good luck. time to leave.

bullvine

Seaneh wrote: »

He wasn't just better than Schmeichel, he was a LOT better than him.

Schmeichel is just another Cantona.

Very good player but never the best and United fans totally over rate him.
He played for United when the EPL was, to be frank, ****e, for the majority of his time there and Denmark's fluke at Euro '92 is usually used as some sort of thrump card when reality is, they didn't even actually qualify because they conceeded too many goals in the qualifiers and if not for Yugoslavia being kicked out wouldn't have been in the tournament. The most important players in that Danish team were the Laudrup brothers, not Schmeichel.

Your speaking absolute nonsense, that is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read on Boards. He was not another Cantona, he was a truly world class player. He was practically unbeatable in his prime. He was formidable at defending Corners, bullied opponents, the best ever on one on ones, adapted brilliantly to the back pass rule like no other keeper and brilliant at turning defense into attack.

Andersonisgod

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I agree different planet to any keeper today.

No other United player in top 10 teams I would not blink but Schmeichel was best by country mile.

Meanwhile Ilker Casillas sits and wonders what else he must do.

bedrock#1

Paul Scholes???

"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder."
- Zinedine Zidane

"In the last 15 to 20 years the best central midfielder that I have seen – the most complete – is Scholes. I have spoken with Xabi Alonso about this many times. Scholes is a spectacular player who has everything. He can play the final pass, he can score, he is strong, he never gets knocked off the ball and he doesn’t give possession away. If he had been Spanish then maybe he would have been valued more."
- Xavi

"Out of everyone at Manchester United, I would pick out Scholes, he is the best midfielder of his generation. I would had loved to play alongside him."
- Pep Guardiola

"At La Masia his name was mentioned a lot. He’s a teacher."
- Lionel Messi

"I can’t understand why Scholes has never won the player of the year award. He should have won it long ago. Maybe it’s because he doesn’t seek the limelight like some of the other ‘stars’."
- Thierry Henry

"Paul Scholes would have been one of my first choices for putting together a great team."
- Marcello Lippi

bucketybuck

Its already amusing to see somebody try to claim Buffon was better than Schmeichel, but its side splitting to see him try it while accepting Casillas in the other team without a word...

The_Kew_Tour

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Meanwhile Ilker Casillas sits and wonders what else he must do.

Great Goalkeeper. I just think The great Dane was on another level.

im out.

SweepTheLeg

Seaneh wrote: »

Where do you fit them though?

Who loses out on either team?

I can see why you could have C. Ronaldo ahead of Figo, but imo, that team needs a DM beside pirlo so Figo is out anyway for me. But can real Ronaldo be ahead of Puskas? That's a hard call.

Yup, C.Ronaldo for Figo. That is a tough choice to pick Ronaldo or Puskas. Just be weird not having the WC top goal scorer on either list :P

Seaneh

I actually don't see how Figo beat either C. Ronaldo or Ryan Giggs to the team, both are better than Figo.

Giggs was the best winger of his (and Figo's) generation.

GavRedKing

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its already amusing to see somebody try to claim Buffon was better than Schmeichel, but its side splitting to see him try it while accepting Casillas in the other team without a word...

Record cap holder and captain of Spain during their most succesful period, kept 4 clean sheets in every game from the last 16 of the WC through to the final, at International level d**k measuring, not many players stack up to Casillas while no keeper does, simple.

Andersonisgod

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Great Goalkeeper. I just think The great Dane was on another level.

im out.

"on another level" that's the bit I have a problem with. There is no goalkeeper who is on a higher level than Casillas? If you want to say that you think Schmeichel is better then fine, it's debatable, but to say he is on another level is a ridiculous thing to say considering thr goalkeeper in question has been the Real Madrid number one since he was a teenager, the most successful Spanish goalkeeper ever, who captained the side to World Cup and European Championship glory no less. That's not even mentioning his unbelievable record with Real Madrid. Another level? There's no level higher than Iker Casillas.

GavRedKing

Seaneh wrote: »

I actually don't see how Figo beat either C. Ronaldo or Ryan Giggs to the team, both are better than Figo.

Giggs was the best winger of his (and Figo's) generation.

100% this. On Team B I'd probably sacarifice Zidane for Brazilian Ronaldo to play up top with Puskas and C.Ron for Figo.

The_Kew_Tour

Andersonisgod wrote: »

"on another level" that's the bit I have a problem with. There is no goalkeeper who is on a higher level than Casillas? If you want to say that you think Schmeichel is better then fine, it's debatable, but to say he is on another level is a ridiculous thing to say considering thr goalkeeper in question has been the Real Madrid number one since he was a teenager, the most successful Spanish goalkeeper ever, who captained the side to World Cup and European Championship glory no less. That's not even mentioning his unbelievable record with Real Madrid. Another level? There's no level higher than Iker Casillas.

You disagree fair enough. I stand by what I said. Casillas is one greatest ever I just think Dane was better.

/

Drag00n79

Seaneh wrote: »

The most important players in that Danish team were the Laudrup brothers, not Schmeichel.

Michael was not involved in Euro92 - only Brian.

SweepTheLeg

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You disagree fair enough. I stand by what I said. Casillas is one greatest ever I just think Dane was better.

/

I think you're the only person who thinks Schmeichel was better than Casillas. Iker is still only 32, after all he's achieved he still has years to keep proving he's the best.

Seaneh

Shamrok wrote: »

Michael was not involved in Euro92 - only Brian.

Then Brian and Larsen were the two most important players.

bullvine

Yet another thread on Boards turns into a ABU fest. Schmeichel wouldn't be out of place in either team, neither would Iker, Buffon, Kahn, etc

Can we not just leave it at that.

Andersonisgod

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You disagree fair enough. I stand by what I said. Casillas is one greatest ever I just think Dane was better.

/

And that's fine, like I said, it's really a matter of debate as to who is the better goalkeeper, the margins are tight between the two. My only issue was the use of the phrase "on another level" which would suggest quite a considerable gap in quality between the two.

bucketybuck

Andersonisgod wrote: »

"on another level" that's the bit I have a problem with. There is no goalkeeper who is on a higher level than Casillas? If you want to say that you think Schmeichel is better then fine, it's debatable, but to say he is on another level is a ridiculous thing to say considering thr goalkeeper in question has been the Real Madrid number one since he was a teenager, the most successful Spanish goalkeeper ever, who captained the side to World Cup and European Championship glory no less. That's not even mentioning his unbelievable record with Real Madrid. Another level? There's no level higher than Iker Casillas.

This is the same guy who at age 32 got dropped for Diego Lopez, correct?

Seaneh

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

I think you're the only person who thinks Schmeichel was better than Casillas. Iker is still only 32, after all he's achieved he still has years to keep proving he's the second best, marginally.

FYP :P

SweepTheLeg

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is the same guy who at age 32 got dropped for Diego Lopez, correct?

Do you know anything about football? It was because he and Ramos fell out with Mourinho. Same reason Ramos was dropped for games.

bullvine

Seaneh wrote: »

Then Brian and Larsen were the two most important players.

What utter rubbish, you have already proved you don't know what your talking about because you thought Michael Laudrup played in it. Schmeichel saved Van Basten's Peno in the Semi and was out of this world in the final against the then World Champions.

Seaneh

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is the same guy who at age 32 got dropped for Diego Lopez, correct?

Not because of his ability he wasn't.

Injury at first followed by the usual internal power struggles at Real. Iker is the posterboy for the club, he's the most influential player in the dressing room, him and Jose didn't see eye to eye, Jose made a statement by dropping Iker that nobody is more important to Jose than Jose, if you really think he dropped him because he though Deigo Lopez was a better keeper, you're out of your mind.

That said, Lopez is a very good keeper and listening to the RTE lads calling him "dodgy" during the champions league coverage last season was cringe worthy stuff.

Andersonisgod

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is the same guy who at age 32 got dropped for Diego Lopez, correct?

You and I both know there were reasons behind that decision that didn't fully relate to on-field performances. However this is the same goalkeeper who, at 19, won a Champions League in goal for the biggest club in the world, who has captained Spain to the promise land of World Cup glory, who along the way has picked up another Champions League, 2 European Championships and 5 La Liga titles. It is the same guy, yes?

bullvine

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

Do you know anything about football? It was because he and Ramos fell out with Mourinho. Same reason Ramos was dropped for games.

In fairness, Lopez is still in the team under Ancelotti

Richard Hillman

I think Schmeichel was very over-rated. You only have to watch a programme like Premier League years to see the amount of goals he messed up for. I think VDS was much more solid and less error prone.

I think Casillas is living off his former reputation. As a Real Madrid fan I prefer Diego Lopez in net at the moment and so did Mourinho and Anchelotti.

PhlegmyMoses

Seaneh wrote: »

Then Brian and Larsen were the two most important players.

Ah here, admit you remember nothing about that Danish team and take your medicine. You were caught red handed talking rubbish.

SweepTheLeg

bullvine wrote: »

In fairness, Lopez is still in the team under Ancelotti

Which they struggled to win 2-1 against Betis.

bullvine

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

Which they struggled to win 2-1 against Betis.

Wasnt really the keepers fault though, it was the unbalanced front 6 that didnt help.

Andersonisgod

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Ancelotti too?

1 game, reason given was that Casillas had 15 days less pre season training than Lopez. I think we can all sleep safely in our beds knowing that if the Champions League final was on next Saturday, it'd be Casillas starting for Real Madrid.

mitosis

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You disagree fair enough. I stand by what I said. Casillas is one greatest ever I just think Dane was better.

/

I thought you left a couple of times already?

I admire your worship for the great Schmeichel, it's admirable, but in the real world, outside of Man U, Buffon is rated as the best ever to play the game. And I don't mean just by Seaneh!!!

http://www.iffhs.de/?388d85ff8b00388f05f4cbc0385fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedb88419

In fact, purely statistically, Schmeichel is only 4th

5starpool

I don't know what the vehement arguing is about. It is a very subjective topic. It's not like Giles included Paul McShane on his team or anything.

It'd be nice to have a time machine, scoop up all these players in their prime, give them 3 months training using modern methods, and then have the game.

Anyone got a deLorean with an operational flux capacitor?

SweepTheLeg

Andersonisgod wrote: »

1 game, reason given was that Casillas had 15 days less pre season training than Lopez. I think we can all sleep safely in our beds knowing that if the Champions League final was on next Saturday, it'd be Casillas starting for Real Madrid.

This, Lopez isn't some wonderkid. He's the same age as Casillas and you can bet who'll last longer in their career.