John Giles Dream Teams

Seaneh

bullvine wrote: »

Ahh come on you presumed he was the keeper in 2002 like you presumed Laudrup was in the Denmark team in 1992. If you had watched the 2002 WC as much as you think you had you would have known that Marcos was the keeper. The interest in that Brazil team was massive because of the 3R's at the time and also the fact of a quarter final against England.

Of course I knew Marcos was the keeper, I watched every Brazil game. I remember everything, Rivaldo's falling over in the corner, Ronaldo's stupid hair, Kleberson and Gilberto Silva playing so well together that we all thought Kleberson would be a great signing for United. Cafu and Carlos running more in games than I've ever seen any full backs run, ever. Roque Junior having a great tournament.

I never claimed Dida played, I said he had a world cup winners medal, he does.

Prufrock

GavRedKing wrote: »

Post the Irish/UK team then you'll see fireworks :pac:

I dunno the uk/irish teams include subs. The place could go into meltdown.

GavRedKing

Prufrock wrote: »

I dunno the uk/irish teams include subs. The place could go into meltdown.

As long as nobody goes full retard then we can have a discussion on it.

Seaneh

bullvine wrote: »

Yeah Wenger buying Bergkamp made a massive difference......... and was a start of an influx of top foreign players....:D

Yeah, signings like that and Overmars and Peit Chelsea signing the likes of Zola, Desailly, Deschamps and Lebeouf were the start of it alright.

MD1990

do they all track back though?

bullvine

Seaneh wrote: »

Yeah, signings like that and Overmars and Peit Chelsea signing the likes of Zola, Desailly, Deschamps and Lebeouf were the start of it alright.

Wenger didn't buy him it was Rioch... but anyway.. I think the first superstar to come was probably Ravenelli, followed by Zola and Desailly..

GavRedKing

Seaneh wrote: »

Yeah, signings like that and Overmars and Peit Chelsea signing the likes of Zola, Desailly, Deschamps and Lebeouf were the start of it alright.

Chelsea back in 98 or 99 fielded the first all foreign starting XI, I remember it from Soccer AM the following week and Lovejoy mentioning it.

Seaneh

MD1990 wrote: »

do they all track back though?

Johnny foreigner, don't track back, they all dive, don't show up on a cold Wednesday night in stoke.

I would have concerns about the credibility of any John Giles 'dream team'

Judging by his analysis on RTE, the guy only knows the names of about 5% of players.

SweepTheLeg

GavRedKing wrote: »

As long as nobody goes full retard then we can have a discussion on it.

I'll take a whack at the England XI.

Banks
Cole
Moore
Terry
Neville
Charlton
Gasgoine
Beckham
Keegan
Greaves
Lineker

Subs

Shilton
Adams
Robson
Keegan
Shearer

It's how they performed for their country not club, Otherwise Scholes would be there.

Prufrock

GavRedKing wrote: »

As long as nobody goes full retard then we can have a discussion on it.

Giles dream teams = UK and Irish based players

TEAM A

Pat Jennings
Denis Irwin
John Charles
Bobby Moore
Stuart Pearce
George Best
Bobby Charlton
Dave Mackay
John Robertson
Denis Law
Jimmy Greaves

SUBS TEAM A
Roy Keane
Bryan Robson
Jimmy Johnstone
Norman Hunter
Cliff Jones
Ian Rush

TEAM B

Gordan Banks
Paul Madeley
Paul McGrath
Alan Hansen
Terry Cooper
Billy Bremner
Graeme Souness
Paul Scholes
Liam Brady
Kevin Keegan
Kenny Dalglish

SUBS TEAM B
Mike Summerbee
Francis Lee
Peter Lorimer
Eddie Gray
Alan Ball
Johnny Haynes

So how would you line em up. Also who would win?

IvySlayer

Oliver Kahn was the best keeper I've seen, and Schmeichel wasn't too far off him.

Seaneh

Prufrock wrote: »

Giles dream teams = UK and Irish based players

TEAM A

Pat Jennings
Denis Irwin
John Charles
Bobby Moore
Stuart Pearce
George Best
Bobby Charlton
Dave Mackay
John Robertson
Denis Law
Jimmy Greaves

SUBS TEAM A
Roy Keane
Bryan Robson
Jimmy Johnstone
Norman Hunter
Cliff Jones
Ian Rush

TEAM B

Gordan Banks
Paul Madeley
Paul McGrath
Alan Hansen
Terry Cooper
Billy Bremner
Graeme Souness
Paul Scholes
Liam Brady
Kevin Keegan
Kenny Dalglish

SUBS TEAM B
Mike Summerbee
Francis Lee
Peter Lorimer
Eddie Gray
Alan Ball
Johnny Haynes

So how would you line em up. Also who would win?

Hard for me to say anything about either team, most of the players are from so long ago that I wouldn't have a breeze where they played never mind who was better.

The only players I really remember are Robson, McGrath, Keane, Irwin, Rush, Scholes and Pearce.

Drag00n79

bullvine wrote: »

I think the first superstar to come was probably Ravenelli, followed by Zola and Desailly..

I know he didn't hang about too long but Klinsmann joining Spurs in 1994 broke a lot of ice for top foreign players moving to play in England.

Prufrock

Seaneh wrote: »

Hard for me to say anything about either team, most of the players are from so long ago that I wouldn't have a breeze where they played never mind who was better.

The only players I really remember are Robson, McGrath, Keane, Irwin, Rush, Scholes and Pearce.

Yeah its a bit old school. The world 11s are well known though. It would be a cracking game.

The book itself is a great read. It even goes into the evolution of the long ball game in England. I don't agree with everything in there but its very interesting.

Lightbulb Sun

The thread is going to have a bias for the more recent generations of players due to the ages of the posters.

I feel I couldn't give a varied enough opinion on this so I won't comment on it.

Corholio

Deleted User wrote: »

I would have concerns about the credibility of any John Giles 'dream team'

Judging by his analysis on RTE, the guy only knows the names of about 5% of players.

There's a big difference between knowing about the players and pronouncing their names. There seems to be more said about pundits not being able to say player's names than their actual analysis of them. Giles is pretty knowledgeable.

Seaneh

Corholio wrote: »

There's a big difference between knowing about the players and pronouncing their names. There seems to be more said about pundits not being able to say player's names than their actual analysis of them. Giles is pretty knowledgeable.

Giles is knowledgeable about anything from 20 years ago or older and he top 5 or 6 premier league teams of today, beyond that, himself and Dunphy are total spoofers. Their champions league analysis is atrocious, and besides the comedy factor has no value.

Frankie Lee

Prufrock wrote: »

Giles dream teams = UK and Irish based players

TEAM A

Pat Jennings
Denis Irwin
John Charles
Bobby Moore
Stuart Pearce
George Best
Bobby Charlton
Dave Mackay
John Robertson
Denis Law
Jimmy Greaves

SUBS TEAM A
Roy Keane
Bryan Robson
Jimmy Johnstone
Norman Hunter
Cliff Jones
Ian Rush

TEAM B

Gordan Banks
Paul Madeley
Paul McGrath
Alan Hansen
Terry Cooper
Billy Bremner
Graeme Souness
Paul Scholes
Liam Brady
Kevin Keegan
Kenny Dalglish

SUBS TEAM B
Mike Summerbee
Francis Lee
Peter Lorimer
Eddie Gray
Alan Ball
Johnny Haynes

So how would you line em up. Also who would win?

He'd surely put himself and Johnny Carey in there. Maybe Duncan Edwards too.

Nalz

I'll be honest, I never heard of Paul Madeley until today

bullvine

Trilla wrote: »

I'll be honest, I never heard of Paul Madeley until today

I hadn't either

Seaneh

Trilla wrote: »

I'll be honest, I never heard of Paul Madeley until today

yeah, no clue who he was until I googled it.

Corholio

Corholio wrote: »

There's a big difference between knowing about the players and pronouncing their names.

I agree. My issue isn't that he can't pronounce the names, its that he flat out isn't aware of any players outside of a very narrow mainstream range

GTR63

Glad Pirlo is in there, hugely underrated in terms of Balon d`or or FIFA nods down the years.

Mr.Nice Guy

I saw a documentary on Youtube from the early days of Sky Sports where they put together a 'Four Nations' team which excluded England players (they did a separate show for a best ever England team which is also on Youtube).

Richard Keys was host and the contributors were Billy Bingham, Peter Nicholas and Tommy Docherty.

There are four parts to the show. Here's part one for anyone interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRSTrPIUyQI

This is the team they came up with (remember there's no England players selected, and that the show was done in the early nineties):

---

Jennings

---

--Carey

---

Charles

---

Hansen

---

Irwin---

---Best

---

Allchurch

---

Mackay

---

Jones----

---

Dalglish

---

Law

---

They didn't give John Giles much of a look in which disappointed me. Obviously too early for Roy Keane, although now I think he would be a shoe-in.

I didn't really think it was a great programme tbh, but they did mention Irish players I hadn't heard of before so you'll probably learn some worthwhile information.

The_Kew_Tour

Liam Brady deserves to be mentioned

DoctorGonzo08

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Liam Brady deserves to be mentioned

Yeah, suprised himself and McGrath were omitted.

The_Kew_Tour

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Yeah, suprised himself and McGrath were omitted.

True. In fairness to Brady he is one few players from UK and Ireland to have made it in Serie A.

I have Italian Juve friends who know hell lot about him from their fathers telling them about him and stuff. Was highly rated there.

adox

Seaneh wrote: »

I didn't watch the 2002 world cup?

I didn't see Ronaldo's stupid haircut or Keane's last minute goal against the Germans or Heirro trying to undress Nail Quinn in the penalty box or Ian Harte missing the penalty? I didn't remember Roy throwing his toys out of the pram in Saipan? I didn't see Ronaldo scoring 8 goals in 7 games? Or His preformance in the final against germany?

I must be dreaming it so, bit odd that a 17 year old football fan on summer holidays from secondary school wouldn't watch the world cup, especially since between RTE, BBC and ITV pretty much every game of the tournament was screen on Irish television.

Am I right in thinking that you were 17 in 2002? If so, your point about the premiership been cack in the mid 90s seems a second hand opinion at best, considering you would have been 7 when it started and 13 when it allegedly improved. You would have been 7 when Denmark won the Euros and 14 when Schmeichal played his last game for Utd!!

K-9

adox wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that you were 17 in 2002? If so, your point about the premiership been cack in the mid 90s seems a second hand opinion at best, considering you would have been 7 when it started and 13 when it allegedly improved. You would have been 7 when Denmark won the Euros and 14 when Schmeichal played his last game for Utd!!

In fairness that rules most of us out of discussing the thread, might as well shut her down.

Seaneh

adox wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that you were 17 in 2002? If so, your point about the premiership been cack in the mid 90s seems a second hand opinion at best, considering you would have been 7 when it started and 13 when it allegedly improved. You would have been 7 when Denmark won the Euros and 14 when Schmeichal played his last game for Utd!!

Er, I can tell you this much, in 1994 at 9 (going on 10, I was born in August) I remember Milan absolutely spanking Barcelona's "Dream Team" in the Champions league final with Desially playing in centre midfield and Massaro leading the line (because Van Basten was crocked and missed the entire season) and Savićević behind him (who I think is one of the most under rated players of all time).
I remember Panucci having his breakthrough season and Albertini stamping his style of play on the Milan midfield and Italy midfield (which I believe was the blueprint that players like Xavi, Pirlo, Alonso, and other have based their games on).

I remember Ray Houghton scoring against Italy in the 1994 world cup, I remember Baggio being player of the tournament and missing the penalty in the shoot out, I remember the "rock the cradle" celebration when Bebeto scored and copying it in school when I scored at lunch time in school the following september.

I also remeber going up the lake on the boat and catching a 14lb pike and an 8lb trout that summer, which was a big deal to me at that stage.

You'd be surprised what people remember from their childhoods.

And if you are actually trying to argue what the EPL wasn't lagging behind the other "big" European leagues (including France at the time) after the lifting of the European ban on English teams and because of he 3 foreign player rule (which there was also an similar rule in Place in Italy, but was less on an issue), then you are deluded. It took a long time for the English game to catch up, even with the Sky money.

GTR63

Man that Savicevic goal was awesome. I will always remember hearing George Hamilton say 'And its in again Savicevic'. Such a sweet performance , sweeter still without Baresi and Costacurta(who would moonwalk into most if not any XI then or now) too up against Romario and Stoichkov AND Van Basten had totally broken down that season.

adox

Seaneh wrote: »

Er, I can tell you this much, in 1994 at 9 (going on 10, I was born in August) I remember Milan absolutely spanking Barcelona's "Dream Team" in the Champions league final with Desially playing in centre midfield and Massaro leading the line (because Van Basten was crocked and missed the entire season) and Savićević behind him (who I think is one of the most under rated players of all time).
I remember Panucci having his breakthrough season and Albertini stamping his style of play on the Milan midfield and Italy midfield (which I believe was the blueprint that players like Xavi, Pirlo, Alonso, and other have based their games on).

I remember Ray Houghton scoring against Italy in the 1994 world cup, I remember Baggio being player of the tournament and missing the penalty in the shoot out, I remember the "rock the cradle" celebration when Bebeto scored and copying it in school when I scored at lunch time in school the following september.

I also remeber going up the lake on the boat and catching a 14lb pike and an 8lb trout that summer, which was a big deal to me at that stage.

You'd be surprised what people remember from their childhoods.

I`m not querying your memory just the validity of a childs perspective spouting absolutes about great players.

The_Kew_Tour

@andersonisgod.

Ya you're right Iker deserves to be mentioned on same bracket as Schmeichel. Still think Schemeochel was better burly that's for another time.

On another note this thread was good for some lol.

Some serious rubbish about some great players.

Skylinehead

I'd have Casillas and Schmeichel at about the same level. Buffon above both, the man has won almost everything, and the fact that you really struggle to find a mistake by him (one this season I think, but still) is a testament to his ability. Plus he's infinitely cooler than both:

bullvine

GTR63 wrote: »

Man that Savicevic goal was awesome. I will always remember hearing George Hamilton say 'And its in again Savicevic'. Such a sweet performance , sweeter still without Baresi and Costacurta(who would moonwalk into most if not any XI then or now) too up against Romario and Stoichkov AND Van Basten had totally broken down that season.

Savicevic was a extremely talented player, maybe the most gifted on the planet prior to Zidane but he was a little inconsistent. The performance was maybe the greatest in the history of club football. Barca were massive fave's and got totally out played.