Dublin rental prices up by over 7% in second quarter

nomoreindie

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You would need to look at average time on the market to work out the number of properties rented per year.

Edit : but there has been a clear drop - by 50% - in the number of properties available since August. That's interesting. Does it make sense considering continuos emigration? Reductions in income etc. ?

My two cents - BTLers who are not paying mortgages are not necessarily renting out, just waiting for repossession and bankruptcy.

Those btlers not paying mortgages are more likely to be renting out and pocketing the rent building up a nest egg. That is why some banks are using rent receivers to get this money

The Spider

nomoreindie wrote: »

Those btlers not paying mortgages are more likely to be renting out and pocketing the rent building up a nest egg. That is why some banks are using rent receivers to get this money

Well at the end of the day, He who dares... and all that!

Anyone who thinks properties will be repossessed and people made pay the balance is living in cloud cuckoo land, never going to happen.

If you want to buy a house, do it now, prices are going to continue to climb, it was only a few months ago we were talking about the boom in SCD now it's all over Dublin. This is going to spread outwards to the commuter towns, guaranteed.

If Dublins out of your range pick a town outside where hou'll get value, as that value won't be there in six months time.

These rises can happen for longer than you think. I thought the bubble'd pop in 2000 after the rises from 95 onwards, boy was I wrong.

nomoreindie

The Spider wrote: »

Well at the end of the day, He who dares... and all that!

Anyone who thinks properties will be repossessed and people made pay the balance is living in cloud cuckoo land, never going to happen.

If you want to buy a house, do it now, prices are going to continue to climb, it was only a few months ago we were talking about the boom in SCD now it's all over Dublin. This is going to spread outwards to the commuter towns, guaranteed.

If Dublins out of your range pick a town outside where hou'll get value, as that value won't be there in six months time.

These rises can happen for longer than you think. I thought the bubble'd pop in 2000 after the rises from 95 onwards, boy was I wrong.

I'd like you to provide proof that buying property is a one way bet. I feel that you are simply trying to wind up people on this forum.

The Spider

nomoreindie wrote: »

I'd like you to provide proof that buying property is a one way bet. I feel that you are simply trying to wind up people on this forum.

There's nothing a one way bet, and I'm not trying to wind anyone up, this discussion had gone on months, and I've been proven right in everything I've said, and I'll be proven right again.

Lot of people around here are in denial about prices and how they're suddenly going to crash another 50% having dropped 50-60% from the peak.

How am I winding people up, is saying there's going to be a never ending crash, not doing the same?

You believe they'll crash I believe they won't, who's right, time will tell, all I know is jobs are booming in IT at the moment.

Everyone in my company wax given a raide a month ago to stop them going to competitors

who_ru

The Spider wrote: »

There's nothing a one way bet, and I'm not trying to wind anyone up, this discussion had gone on months, and I've been proven right in everything I've said, and I'll be proven right again.

Lot of people around here are in denial about prices and how they're suddenly going to crash another 50% having dropped 50-60% from the peak.

How am I winding people up, is saying there's going to be a never ending crash, not doing the same?

You believe they'll crash I believe they won't, who's right, time will tell, all I know is jobs are booming in IT at the moment.

Everyone in my company wax given a raide a month ago to stop them going to competitors

Talking through your h*le all night long. go to bed.

The Spider

who_ru wrote: »

Talking through your h*le all night long. go to bed.

Ha, those rising prices getting to ya?

OMD

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

My two cents - BTLers who are not paying mortgages are not necessarily renting out, just waiting for repossession and bankruptcy.

So people who could get money and spend it are deciding not to get this money! Doesn't make a lot of sense to me

Ray Palmer

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You would need to look at average time on the market to work out the number of properties rented per year.

Edit : but there has been a clear drop - by 50% - in the number of properties available since August. That's interesting. Does it make sense considering continuos emigration? Reductions in income etc. ?

My two cents - BTLers who are not paying mortgages are not necessarily renting out, just waiting for repossession and bankruptcy.

Except the banks are selling these debts and the people who buy them are offering the mortgage holders deals.

I don't see it as fair but financially it makes sense.

gaius c

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You would need to look at average time on the market to work out the number of properties rented per year.

Edit : but there has been a clear drop - by 50% - in the number of properties available since August. That's interesting. Does it make sense considering continuos emigration? Reductions in income etc. ?

My two cents - BTLers who are not paying mortgages are not necessarily renting out, just waiting for repossession and bankruptcy.

It's an annual thing. Students are back to college and need somewhere to live.

Talking of lack of supply, here is what a letting agent on the Pin has to say:

Yep, rents are up c10% in town and SCD.
Rents for students are up c15%+.

There is an extreme tightness of available supply, especially in the student market.

Of course, if you stick a compass in UCD and draw a minor 3-mile radial arc stretching from the Stillorgan Road to Sandyford you can probably satisfy this demand from empty and unfinished developments.

But sure ... who would that benefit ?

gaius c

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Except the banks are selling these debts and the people who buy them are offering the mortgage holders deals.

I don't see it as fair but financially it makes sense.

Ray. Bear in mind that it is the Indo reporting this so the story needs to be treated with suspicion. For starters, the likes of Pepper are short-term, quick buck merchants. They won't be interested in refixing the loan long term so what is more likely (in the case wher €90k was mentioned) is that they'll clear the mortgage if you pony up €90k cash to buy their loan out, otherwise they repo.

Anything the Indo says needs to be taken with a pinch of salt because they are either deliberately or accidentally misreporting/distorting facts to suit their agenda/stupidity.

Frank Lee Midere

The Spider wrote: »

There's nothing a one way bet, and I'm not trying to wind anyone up, this discussion had gone on months, and I've been proven right in everything I've said, and I'll be proven right again.

Lot of people around here are in denial about prices and how they're suddenly going to crash another 50% having dropped 50-60% from the peak.

How am I winding people up, is saying there's going to be a never ending crash, not doing the same?

You believe they'll crash I believe they won't, who's right, time will tell, all I know is jobs are booming in IT at the moment.

Everyone in my company wax given a raide a month ago to stop them going to competitors

Your company waxes?

IT is booming, but that's all. It's not the reason why properties are increasing. the reasons are clear and documented. Limited supply because of lack of repossession.

You are an economic illiterate of the type who got into this problem in the first place, its entertaining to hear someone think that mortgage holders will be allowed to not pay their mortgages until they want, or until the market "recovers" so the banks can realize their profits. Since the market is never going to recover to 2006 levels you believe that a whole group of people will not ever have to pay mortgages, meanwhile an excluded rental sector will pay them rent. The banks need capital to shore up their loan books, a defaulting mortgage is worth zero, selling the house and getting payments is worth money. This is how it happens everywhere else in the world.. If the banks need more capital from Europe, it will happen rapidly.

murphaph

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Your company waxes?

'X' is beside 'S' on most keyboards. It was clearly a typo.

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

IT is booming, but that's all. It's not the reason why properties are increasing. the reasons are clear and documented. Limited supply because of lack of repossession

Yet again we have this idea presented here that repossessing houses will create more living space and reduce rents. So I ask again, where do the previous occupants of a repossessed property go?

If they were tenants before and the LL got repossessed, then they'll rent from the new LL, whomever that may be. No new dwelling becomes available.

If they were owner occupiers, then they'll need to rent from someone else. One becomes available and another becomes occupied. No net new availability.

Neither scenario results in a single extra dwelling becoming available to rent!!!

Frank Lee Midere

murphaph wrote: »

'X' is beside 'S' on most keyboards. It was clearly a typo.


Yet again we have this idea presented here that repossessing houses will create more living space and reduce rents. So I ask again, where do the previous occupants of a repossessed property go?

If they were tenants before and the LL got repossessed, then they'll rent from the new LL, whomever that may be. No new dwelling becomes available.

If they were owner occupiers, then they'll need to rent from someone else. One becomes available and another becomes occupied. No net new availability.

Neither scenario results in a single extra dwelling becoming available to rent!!!

The supply of rental property is under pressure because people can't get on the housing ladder, increasing rental demand. So prices will fall when these people do get their own houses, it just means that house prices will have a potential floor . The reduction in rental availability is in fact hard to explain, as the population is dropping at about 34K a year. http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/popmig_2012.pdf - which is about as high as most years in the 1980's except the high points of 1989 and 1990. These people are clearly not renting. It should be reducing rental demand in Dublin by 10,000 people a year.

Given this reality, and the fact that both housing and rents are increasing, there must be some hoarding of housing, not just banks.

OMD

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The supply of rental property is under pressure because people can't get on the housing ladder, increasing rental demand. So prices will fall when these people do get their own houses, it just means that house prices will have a potential floor . The reduction in rental availability is in fact hard to explain, as the population is dropping at about 34K a year. http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/popmig_2012.pdf - which is about as high as most years in the 1980's except the high points of 1989 and 1990. These people are clearly not renting. It should be reducing rental demand in Dublin by 10,000 people a year.

Given this reality, and the fact that both housing and rents are increasing, there must be some hoarding of housing, not just banks.

Household size has got smaller so the number of houses/apartments to house the same number of people has increased.
By the way the population overall is increasing not decreasing as you say

Victor

The Spider wrote: »

Ha, those rising prices getting to ya?

No need for taunting.

Moderator

gaius c

murphaph wrote: »

'X' is beside 'S' on most keyboards. It was clearly a typo.


Yet again we have this idea presented here that repossessing houses will create more living space and reduce rents. So I ask again, where do the previous occupants of a repossessed property go?

If they were tenants before and the LL got repossessed, then they'll rent from the new LL, whomever that may be. No new dwelling becomes available.

If they were owner occupiers, then they'll need to rent from someone else. One becomes available and another becomes occupied. No net new availability.

Neither scenario results in a single extra dwelling becoming available to rent!!!

You're forgetting the scenario where the mortgage holder moves out and rents a place but leaves the original empty. Tends to happen where the original mortgaged property is too small for the household's needs (i.e. shoebox apartment).

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

You're forgetting the scenario where the mortgage holder moves out and rents a place but leaves the original empty. Tends to happen where the original mortgaged property is too small for the household's needs (i.e. shoebox apartment).

How often do you think your scenario occurs?

gaius c

murphaph wrote: »

How often do you think your scenario occurs?

No real way of knowing but I know of at least two households doing it. One of them has left the country.

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

No real way of knowing but I know of at least two households doing it. One of them has left the country.

Extraordinarily rarely then.

shamrock2004

The Spider wrote: »

You believe they'll crash I believe they won't, who's right, time will tell, all I know is jobs are booming in IT at the moment.

Everyone in my company wax given a raide a month ago to stop them going to competitors

Talking ****. Im working 7 years in IT (development) and still couldnt comfortably afford a mortgage. And with yet more taxes coming down the line (forgetting next month's budget) i'd rather not. I'll struggle to rent a 2 bed apartment in dublin next january, but what choice do I have?

The Spider

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Talking ****. Im working 7 years in IT (development) and still couldnt comfortably afford a mortgage. And with yet more taxes coming down the line (forgetting next month's budget) i'd rather not. I'll struggle to rent a 2 bed apartment in dublin next january, but what choice do I have?

Well you could get a mortgage, it just wouldn't be in Dublin, you have a choice it's called commuting, it's what I did, and IT is a wide area, some people are making more money than others obviously. We moved out as prices began to rise last year, I predict it's only a matter of time before the commuter towns start to rise again, as supply is squeezed in the capital.

who_ru

The Spider wrote: »

I predict it's only a matter of time before the commuter towns start to rise again, as supply is squeezed in the capital.

I agree with you 100% on that. 10 to 15 years time should be about right.