Land Improvements thread

just do it

Milked out wrote: »

Mulcher cost much to bring in jdi? Have 2 or 3 acres of heavy rushes to get rid of

€50/hr but spent the day with me. Machine is heavy on juice.

What I find now is that the ground is clear I'll have a better idea where to best place land drains. There's a deep open trench along the long boundary to link them into

Edit: roughly 2ac/hr but not all ground as rough as in pictures

just do it

One problem with improved ground is it grows more grass and you need a higher SR to manage it!

(Of course that's the idea in the first place!)

Figerty

just do it wrote: »

€50/hr but spent the day with me. Machine is heavy on juice.

What I find now is that the ground is clear I'll have a better idea where to best place land drains. There's a deep open trench along the long boundary to link them into

Edit: roughly 2ac/hr but not all ground as rough as in pictures

Take it in small steps and it will get there. Pick the worst ground and start there. I did a field of similar size and the bits that aren't dried out now are annoying me! Years ago they were nearly the best of the field.

Bullocks

just do it wrote: »

One problem with improved ground is it grows more grass and you need a higher SR to manage it!

(Of course that's the idea in the first place!)

That's true JDI and that kinda ground grows grass pretty well too . The one thing I can say is to really mind it and give it priority in the bad (wet ) years instead of skipping grazing or spraying because wet weather because it goes back to rushes awful quick .
I've seen it here in a few places just like that over the years .

Jimlh86

Quick question folks, I want to properly fence about 30 acres properly to start managing our grass better, 2 strand electric fence and 1 strand in parts. Any advice on that is greatly appreciated but my main question is I want to get a lad in a track machine to clear the way for me. The lad that cuts our turf is coming shortly he's fierce tidy so I was hoping to get him, but is it too early in the year for this work I.e disturbing hedges etc?

Markcheese

I don't know the ground or anything but would a hedge trimmer not be a better bet ? You're grand to trim hedges now as far as I know .

ganmo

Jimlh86 wrote: »

Quick question folks, I want to properly fence about 30 acres properly to start managing our grass better, 2 strand electric fence and 1 strand in parts. Any advice on that is greatly appreciated but my main question is I want to get a lad in a track machine to clear the way for me. The lad that cuts our turf is coming shortly he's fierce tidy so I was hoping to get him, but is it too early in the year for this work I.e disturbing hedges etc?

Plough on, there's a bit in the act that says it doesn't apply to 'normal farming activity'

Jimlh86

ganmo wrote: »

Plough on, there's a bit in the act that says it doesn't apply to 'normal farming activity'

Fair play! I'll blame you when they come asking!!

ganmo

Jimlh86 wrote: »

Fair play! I'll blame you when they come asking!!

40.—(1) It shall be an offence for a person to cut, grub, burn or otherwise destroy, during the period beginning on the 15th day of April and ending on the 31st day of August in any year, any vegetation growing on any land not then cultivated or in course of cultivation for agriculture or forestry.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in relation to—

(a) the destroying, in the ordinary course of agriculture or forestry, of any vegetation growing on or in any hedge or ditch;

(b) the cutting or grubbing of isolated bushes or clumps of gorse, furze or whin or the mowing of isolated growths of fern in the ordinary course of agriculture;

(c) the cutting, grubbing or destroying of vegetation in the course of any works being duly carried out by a Minister of State or a body established or regulated by or under a statute;

(d) the destroying of any noxious weed to which the Noxious Weeds Act, 1936 , applies;

(e) the clearance of vegetation in the development or preparation of sites on which any building or other structure is intended to be provided;

(f) the removal or destruction of vegetation required by a notice served by the Minister under section 62 (1) of the Act of 1946 to be removed or destroyed;


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0040.html#sec40

the bill is in the post

Buford T. Justice XIX

Markcheese wrote: »

I don't know the ground or anything but would a hedge trimmer not be a better bet ? You're grand to trim hedges now as far as I know .

Jaysus, no!

You can't cut hedges for months yet.

You can clean up and cut any briars and overgrowth into the field but you can only manually trim hedges until the end of August.

Or trim them with something like a fingerbar mower but not a hedgecutter.

Be very, very careful messing with hedges, inspectors can have very different views over what's acceptable.

Edit. See above.

just do it

Jimlh86 wrote: »

Quick question folks, I want to properly fence about 30 acres properly to start managing our grass better, 2 strand electric fence and 1 strand in parts. Any advice on that is greatly appreciated but my main question is I want to get a lad in a track machine to clear the way for me. The lad that cuts our turf is coming shortly he's fierce tidy so I was hoping to get him, but is it too early in the year for this work I.e disturbing hedges etc?

My understanding is you're allowed to clear hedges/ ditches for the purposes of improvements to agricultural land. However you're not allowed to trim hedges that are staying in place until Sept 1st. Ring teagasc

just do it

Attached from teagasc. You can't say you haven't been warned

Jimlh86

ganmo wrote: »

40.—(1) It shall be an offence for a person to cut, grub, burn or otherwise destroy, during the period beginning on the 15th day of April and ending on the 31st day of August in any year, any vegetation growing on any land not then cultivated or in course of cultivation for agriculture or forestry.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in relation to—

(a) the destroying, in the ordinary course of agriculture or forestry, of any vegetation growing on or in any hedge or ditch;

(b) the cutting or grubbing of isolated bushes or clumps of gorse, furze or whin or the mowing of isolated growths of fern in the ordinary course of agriculture;

(c) the cutting, grubbing or destroying of vegetation in the course of any works being duly carried out by a Minister of State or a body established or regulated by or under a statute;

(d) the destroying of any noxious weed to which the Noxious Weeds Act, 1936 , applies;

(e) the clearance of vegetation in the development or preparation of sites on which any building or other structure is intended to be provided;

(f) the removal or destruction of vegetation required by a notice served by the Minister under section 62 (1) of the Act of 1946 to be removed or destroyed;


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0040.html#sec40

the bill is in the post

Ha ha great stuff, thanks a million!

just do it

You realise a plead of ignorance is inadmissible in a court . Be wary of interpreting law to suit yourself. The precedent that you can't trim hedges in the closed season is well established.

Jimlh86

just do it wrote: »

You realise a plead of ignorance is inadmissible in a court . Be wary of interpreting law to suit yourself. The precedent that you can't trim hedges in the closed season is well established.

Ah I expected more from someone called "just do it" 😆 yeah i suppose better to be safe than sorry, who can I contact for more information?

ganmo

just do it wrote: »

You realise a plead of ignorance is inadmissible in a court . Be wary of interpreting law to suit yourself. The precedent that you can't trim hedges in the closed season is well established.

Do you call fencing normal agricultural practice? What I posted above is the act that you would be prosecuted under...it also gives you your defence.

You may fall foul of the dept by not keeping the same length of hedges but doubt the court would do anythin.

But staying on the good side of the dept is always good

votuvant

ganmo wrote: »

Do you call fencing normal agricultural practice? What I posted above is the act that you would be prosecuted under...it also gives you your defence.

You may fall foul of the dept by not keeping the same length of hedges but doubt the court would do anythin.

But staying on the good side of the dept is always good

Its not really court you have to worry about. The dept will have no bother taking your SFP and good luck getting that back off them.

Jimlh86

ganmo wrote: »

Do you call fencing normal agricultural practice? What I posted above is the act that you would be prosecuted under...it also gives you your defence.

You may fall foul of the dept by not keeping the same length of hedges but doubt the court would do anythin.

But staying on the good side of the dept is always good

I suppose it is! You have to keep stock in?

just do it

The other person we've all to worry about is the nosey neighbour or passer-by. Officials have little option but to act on a complaint whether they want to or not.

RobinBanks

Looking for a bit of advice. I'm in the middle of reclaiming some wet land. There is a drain separating my field and another man who has his field let out. On my side of the drain there is a bit of a ditch and a line of wire. On the other mans side there is a good fence but no ditch.

The contractor doing the work for me thinks it would be better if I removed the ditch on my side so all the water coming down from the hills could flow straight into the drain. The way it is now the water will just run down to ditch and lie there.

I have 2 options.
1. Put in a pipe drain running parallel to my ditch which will catch the water and let it out into the drain at the lowest point

2. Remove ditch in front of drain and put a good fence in place. This would allow water leave my field unimpeded.

My preferred option would be to remove the ditch but I am wondering what I would need to do first in terms of getting permission. I must try and find maps for this land to make sure the ditch is on my side but even so I am concerned that trouble could follow if I remove fence without getting professional advice

Figerty

RobinBanks wrote: »

Looking for a bit of advice. I'm in the middle of reclaiming some wet land. There is a drain separating my field and another man who has his field let out. On my side of the drain there is a bit of a ditch and a line of wire. On the other mans side there is a good fence but no ditch.

The contractor doing the work for me thinks it would be better if I removed the ditch on my side so all the water coming down from the hills could flow straight into the drain. The way it is now the water will just run down to ditch and lie there.

I have 2 options.
1. Put in a pipe drain running parallel to my ditch which will catch the water and let it out into the drain at the lowest point

2. Remove ditch in front of drain and put a good fence in place. This would allow water leave my field unimpeded.

My preferred option would be to remove the ditch but I am wondering what I would need to do first in terms of getting permission. I must try and find maps for this land to make sure the ditch is on my side but even so I am concerned that trouble could follow if I remove fence without getting professional advice

Being practical and saving yourself a lot of machine time, why don't you make outlets through the ditch for the water to run. Pipe them and build the slot in the ditch back up. That way you save time, money and don't fall out with the neighbour.

If the ground is at the end of a hill it would be wise to catch the water with diagonal drain anyway up the hill before it reaches the bottom anyway. That is one of the most effective ways of drying wet ground anyway.

Farmer Pudsey

I think you will find it hard to remove ditch. You need to get premission to remove ditches or hedges as they are habitats. I be going with Figs suggestion, eith make holes ion ditch pipe and rebuild or do land drains from dain back through weth patches on your field, Even with the land drains opening through the ditch at land levl where water holds will prevent flooding after heavy rain

leoch

pudsey who do u get permission from to remove a ditch

Farmer Pudsey

leoch wrote: »

pudsey who do u get permission from to remove a ditch

Both the department and county council. Since nearly all land is satilite mapped for Area aid department will see any taht has being reconfigured over last 10 Years. About 3-4 years ago new laws were brought in limiting land reconfiguration. Limits are set on amount of land ( about 1/2 an HA I think)you can reclaim/reconfigure without gaining premission. Ditches, drains and hedges have limits as well and may have to be replaced elsewhere.

RobinBanks

Thanks for the replies figs and pudsey. I didn't realise it could be that complicated to remove a ditch. This one won't be touched!

Sam Kade

What if you wanted to remove ditches to make a roadway for cows would you have to plant a hedge the same length as the ditch? I presume there are a lot of new entrants to dairying having to do this.

jimini0

Hi all I'm planning on trying to improve a few acres of wet land. Its low lying boggy ground full of rushes. There is old open drains in it. I will tidy them up.

The major problem I have is these fields flood in the winter. There is a river running down between me and neighbour that takes over flow water from a canal a couple of miles away and brings it out to see on the other end. That backs up and floods our lands. There is nothing I can do about that.
My plan is redo old drains. Leave them open cos if I pipe and stone them the flood water will only block them. Then I'm stuck on what to do next???. There is 40-50metres between drains and the water just seems to lie in the middle.
Mole plough? Dig smaller drains pipe and stone?

Figerty

jimini0 wrote: »

Hi all I'm planning on trying to improve a few acres of wet land. Its low lying boggy ground full of rushes. There is old open drains in it. I will tidy them up.

The major problem I have is these fields flood in the winter. There is a river running down between me and neighbour that takes over flow water from a canal a couple of miles away and brings it out to see on the other end. That backs up and floods our lands. There is nothing I can do about that.
My plan is redo old drains. Leave them open cos if I pipe and stone them the flood water will only block them. Then I'm stuck on what to do next???. There is 40-50metres between drains and the water just seems to lie in the middle.
Mole plough? Dig smaller drains pipe and stone?

Stone drains and pipe, Best way to get water from the surface is to have stone drains all the way to top and not topped. Sounds like you need to have a fast drainage system when the flooding subsides. You will need to be able access the ends of the pipes if they are lible to block. No tee joints etc. so that you can rod in straight lines if you ever need to.
I only use sandstone/pea gravel. It's more expensive but I am only doing it once! The main benefit of the pea gravel is

• the round edges don't hold dirt, so weeds doesn't get hold,
• It doesn't react with iron to clog the drains with 'iron water' and finally,
• it was explained to me that small pea gravel when in the drain has smaller gaps than in the

pipe meaning that the pipes shouldn't clog up.

jimini0

Here is a photo from maps.
The river runs the full length opposite side to the house. The shaded lines are the old open drains.

Figerty

jimini0 wrote: »

Here is a photo from maps.
The river runs the full length opposite side to the house. The shaded lines are the old open drains.

Good image. I suppose the people who put those drains in the first day thought long and hard about where to put them.. I would too if I was using a shovel!

Work with those drains and you won't go too far wrong. Perhaps some of them can be filled in to make larger fields.

jimini0

Figerty wrote: »

Good image. I suppose the people who put those drains in the first day thought long and hard about where to put them.. I would too if I was using a shovel!

Work with those drains and you won't go too far wrong. Perhaps some of them can be filled in to make larger fields.

Tough men back in the day.
I'm happy enough with the sizes. Its just for grazing. Do you think a couple of smaller drains running diagonally to big ones will help?
I have a alot of work to do with limited funds.

Figerty

jimini0 wrote: »

Tough men back in the day.
I'm happy enough with the sizes. Its just for grazing. Do you think a couple of smaller drains running diagonally to big ones will help?
I have a alot of work to do with limited funds.

I haven an uncle with similar ground. He did a few drains in the worst areas and it worked well. The good thing about ground near a river is that it's usually black earth with little rock so the the tidying up is a lot less.

Work out how manys metre you want to do and pick a spot an go from there. Which bit of wet land annoys you most! I also found that in wet weather the cows tend to walk the stone drains rather than sinking it to the mud. The helps to stop poaching.

I'm using a 12" bucket and going down about 2.5-3 feet to lower the water table around it.

I don't use pipe for anything less than about 40 feet of drain but in your case as you are trying to move a volume of flood water, I would use drainage pipe. If there is that much water it might be a good idea to use the 20ft rigid pipes rather than the rolls, might be more rigid an less likely to move. I don't think there is much difference in price.

jimini0

Well the way things stand it looks like ill only be able to afford to do one drain at a time. I will redo all drains but fill with stone and pipe 1 now and another when I get time and cash. I have other jobs to do that need some money too. I will do bits and pieces eventually I might get things done

just do it

As Figerty suggests go with the rigid wall 6m pipes. Inner wall is smooth so flood water will get away better. They won't sag and result in ponding - maybe not an issue in the first place though. And as it's surface water your drains needn't be deep and with the rigid pipe you've no fear of collapse.

I've used them and happy I paid the bit extra for them.

Figerty

jimini0 wrote: »

Well the way things stand it looks like ill only be able to afford to do one drain at a time. I will redo all drains but fill with stone and pipe 1 now and another when I get time and cash. I have other jobs to do that need some money too. I will do bits and pieces eventually I might get things done

Don't forget to claim the vat back on the stone and pipe!

jimini0

Figerty wrote: »

Don't forget to claim the vat back on the stone and pipe!

Technically I'm not a farmer yet. I have no land in my name yet waiting for the transfer paperwork to be done. Hopefully that will be sorted by end of Aug.

jimini0

Im just after walking the field The existing drains are approx 2.5 foot maybe 3 foot deep and sloping up to 5 or 6 wide. They will take some filling with stone. I'll hire a machine in a week or two and get cracking

Buford T. Justice XIX

Figerty wrote: »

Don't forget to claim the vat back on the stone and pipe!

And take plenty of photos. Receipts alone aren't good enough any more, you must send pics as well or they will send the receipts back asking for pics.

I'm waiting 4 months for one set of vat refunds and over 2 months for another, both simple agricultural vat refunds for sheds and stuff but both queried and returned with more queries.

Minimum wait of 3 months now for vat refunds, unless you get a query, even longer with a query:rolleyes:

just do it

jimini0 wrote: »

Im just after walking the field The existing drains are approx 2.5 foot maybe 3 foot deep and sloping up to 5 or 6 wide. They will take some filling with stone. I'll hire a machine in a week or two and get cracking

I thought the plan was to leave them open, filling them will break you!

jimini0

just do it wrote: »

I thought the plan was to leave them open, filling them will break you!

Oops my bad. I meant to add I'm glad I'm not filling them.

agriman27

I have a field I need to drain. From reading this thread I saw a good few lads were using the 6m lengths of jfc 100mm pipe. I just priced them in co-op today the best price is €11 each, a hundred metre roll of ordinary land drainage roll of 100mm is €115. So that's only €70 difference over a hundred metres. I think the lengths are good enough value, they are very strong and are smooth inside. I reckon they could almost be dug up if there was a blockage and reused again

TPF2012

agriman27 wrote: »

I have a field I need to drain. From reading this thread I saw a good few lads were using the 6m lengths of jfc 100mm pipe. I just priced them in co-op today the best price is €11 each, a hundred metre roll of ordinary land drainage roll of 100mm is €115. So that's only €45 difference over a hundred metres. I think the lengths are good enough value, they are very strong and are smooth inside. I reckon they could almost be dug up if there was a blockage and reused again

11 euro per 6 meter length of jfc equals €183 for 100 metres, nearly €70 difference to ordinary land drainage.

agriman27

TPF2012 wrote: »

11 euro per 6 meter length of jfc equals €183 for 100 metres, nearly €70 difference to ordinary land drainage.

Oh sorry had it my head at the €10 a length, €70 still isn't much difference for the difference in strength, but it all adds up to big money when ya do a big area even when the vat comes back. It's a shame the department doesn't introduce some kind of scheme instead of always looking at yard and shed facilities.

Figerty

agriman27 wrote: »

Oh sorry had it my head at the €10 a length, €70 still isn't much difference for the difference in strength, but it all adds up to big money when ya do a big area even when the vat comes back. It's a shame the department doesn't introduce some kind of scheme instead of always looking at yard and shed facilities.

I agree. I'd like to be able to improve the land so the cattle spend less time in the shed and able to get out sooner in the spring. It was may 1st again this year before the ground was just about ok. Tank was full when they went out.

Farmer

+1 on the grant

drainage would cut down on rushes, grow more grass, cut down on sprays and diesel burned cutting them. It would be more environmentally friendly than some of the stuff they do to pay lip service to the environment

smokey-fitz

just do it wrote: »

What was the mix of grass to rush like in the regrowth? How did you manage it subsequently?

An update on how my piece is going. Mulched last year, sprayed regrowth in may with mcpa, grazed (not very well) topped in July, grazed again and I just put cattle back on it today. 25ac block and it didn't see a sprinkle of fert in the last 30 odd years. Not a rush to be seen yet

Top pic was taken June 2014 bottom was today.

Bullocks

smokey-fitz wrote: »

An update on how my piece is going. Mulched last year, sprayed regrowth in may with mcpa, grazed (not very well) topped in July, grazed again and I just put cattle back on it today. 25ac block and it didn't see a sprinkle of fert in the last 30 odd years. Not a rush to be seen yet

Top pic was taken June 2014 bottom was today.

Great to see the difference. Lovely cows aswell

Miname

There's something lovely about a field of Hereford.

Bullocks

Miname wrote: »

There's something lovely about a field of Hereford.

There's nothing wrong with a plateful of it either !

Cavanjack

smokey-fitz wrote: »

An update on how my piece is going. Mulched last year, sprayed regrowth in may with mcpa, grazed (not very well) topped in July, grazed again and I just put cattle back on it today. 25ac block and it didn't see a sprinkle of fert in the last 30 odd years. Not a rush to be seen yet

Top pic was taken June 2014 bottom was today.

Good job. Amazing what a bit of mcpa can do. Have you taken a soil sample?