Land Improvements thread

smokey-fitz

Cavanjack wrote: »

Good job. Amazing what a bit of mcpa can do. Have you taken a soil sample?

Not yet. I will be sampling the whole farm towards the end of the year, I can't imagine that field would be great for p and k. Don't ever remember fert going on it even as a kid. As stock numbers build I will split it into blocks, improve drainage and reseed but it will be a good few years yet.

Cavanjack

smokey-fitz wrote: »

Not yet. I will be sampling the whole farm towards the end of the year, I can't imagine that field would be great for p and k. Don't ever remember fert going on it even as a kid. As stock numbers build I will split it into blocks, improve drainage and reseed but it will be a good few years yet.

Could

Hard Knocks

Has anyone ever drained “channel” ground.
Is Mole plough or pipe & stone best?

White Clover

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Has anyone ever drained “channel” ground.
Is Mole plough or pipe & stone best?

I have never heard of channel ground. Must be a regional term. Can you describe the profile of the ground?

Hard Knocks

White Clover wrote: »

I have never heard of channel ground. Must be a regional term. Can you describe the profile of the ground?

If you dug a hole it would be like gravel To about 1/2” from top.
Surface water can’t get through which leaves the top wet & prune to rush

White Clover

Hard Knocks wrote: »

If you dug a hole it would be like gravel To about 1/2” from top.
Surface water can’t get through which leaves the top wet & prune to rush

As in a half inch of top soil and gravel then?

Hard Knocks

White Clover wrote: »

As in a half inch of top soil and gravel then?

Yes, we’ll looks like gravel

White Clover

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Yes, we’ll looks like gravel

Dung should improve the drainage of the top soil. If you can get worms there, they will do good work.

Who2

Stone and pipes fairly close and then loads of dung , mushroom compost or whatever you can get. I seen a lad do a right job years back but it takes serious feeding to try and put life in it. My description of what channel ground would be Stoney, lifeless, sticky sort of ground. Luckily around me you don't hit it until your down a few foot.

Hard Knocks

Who2 wrote: »

Stone and pipes fairly close and then loads of dung , mushroom compost or whatever you can get. I seen a lad do a right job years back but it takes serious feeding to try and put life in it. My description of what channel ground would be Stoney, lifeless, sticky sort of ground. Luckily around me you don't hit it until your down a few foot.

Good description
Would you drain or manure first?
Was thinking lime, but definitely needs worms, index’s P@2 & K@4
Would bag or slurry be of any benefit?

Who2

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Good description
Would you drain or manure first?
Was thinking lime, but definitely needs worms, index’s P@2 & K@4
Would bag or slurry be of any benefit?

Drain first, no point getting the surface right just to hoke it up after to get the drainage right.

longgonesilver

Is this considered to be wet ground? Can you drive over it with a tractor in wet weather? If you dug a hole would it fill with water?

Usually soils over gravel would be self draining.

tomwaterford

Hard Knocks wrote: »

If you dug a hole it would be like gravel To about 1/2” from top.
Surface water can’t get through which leaves the top wet & prune to rush

Would you chance getting someone with an aerator??

Just to break through into the gravel and let off the wAter. ...a cheap fix and might work??

newholland mad

If you want worms to do the drainage don't think of using ivomectin on your cattle. It's so powerful it's like secondary poisoning the barn owls with rat poison it passes through the cattle and you won't have any soil worms. My fym is important here so I use a white drench at housing for the same reason

Hard Knocks

longgonesilver wrote: »

Is this considered to be wet ground? Can you drive over it with a tractor in wet weather? If you dug a hole would it fill with water?

Usually soils over gravel would be self draining.

Yes it’s wet, no problem filling with water
Looks like gravel but it’s not gravel, tractor would leave deep tracks

Hard Knocks

Who2 wrote: »

My description of what channel ground would be Stoney, lifeless, sticky sort of ground. Luckily around me you don't hit it until your down a few foot.

Looking up drainage books, is there a particular name for this soil type.

mf240

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Looking up drainage books, is there a particular name for this soil type.

I think it's called marl in this area going by your description. Probably all kinds of localised names for it.

tractorporn

mf240 wrote:

I think it's called marl in this area going by your description. Probably all kinds of localised names for it.

It's definitely not marl/daub that hard knocks is on about. Marl is the furthest thing away from gravel you can find! It's impermeable.

Who2

tractorporn wrote: »

It's definitely not marl/daub that hard knocks is on about. Marl is the furthest thing away from gravel you can find! It's impermeable.

It's loose when dug up but compresses into a marl type of soil. It tightens and goes really hard when dry and pure sealed gutter in the wet. Channel is all I know it as.

tractorporn

Who2 wrote:

It's loose when dug up but compresses into a marl type of soil. It tightens and goes really hard when dry and pure sealed gutter in the wet. Channel is all I know it as.

Round here marl is a blue clay and it lets nothing through. Any drainage we have done is piped and stoned all the way to the top to try and get water through that layer

Hard Knocks

tractorporn wrote: »

Round here marl is a blue clay and it lets nothing through. Any drainage we have done is piped and stoned all the way to the top to try and get water through that layer

Did you put the shores far apart?
Have you had any drainage problems since?

tractorporn

Hard Knocks wrote:

Did you put the shores far apart? Have you had any drainage problems since?

Put them in around 6ft apart. It dried up the field a bit but it didn't solve it altogether

Hard Knocks

Thanks everyone, guess best shore with stone & pipe & then feed the soil.
Going to be an expensive long term project but hopefully the results will be worth it

Who2

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Thanks everyone, guess best shore with stone & pipe & then feed the soil.
Going to be an expensive long term project but hopefully the results will be worth it

If your not overly stocked and can take mushroom compost it would be your best bet. Most places can't get rid of stuff ATM and will pay haulage to you if you can store it. Two or three months and you'll be paying for it.

LastOrders

Notice a bit of moss in one of my fields, still has decent grass but would it inhibit grass growth in spring. Is it a sign the ground is lacking anything?

ganmo

LastOrders wrote: »

Notice a bit of moss in one of my fields, still has decent grass but would it inhibit grass growth in spring. Is it a sign the ground is lacking anything?

more drainage, lime or sunshine or a combination of all 3

LastOrders

ganmo wrote: »

more drainage, lime or sunshine or a combination of all 3

Ok for lime and drainage. It hasn't seen the sun all year. Bit like myself!

Hard Knocks

Who2 wrote: »

If your not overly stocked and can take mushroom compost it would be your best bet. Most places can't get rid of stuff ATM and will pay haulage to you if you can store it. Two or three months and you'll be paying for it.

Sadly nowhere to store
Going to clean/open drains around the perimeter soon & around June/July start digging the shores, then add manure & mushroom composite.
Thinking if get that done this year, then maybe next year run the plough/ Rotavator on it to get a seed bed & add more manure/ composite
If we use Mushroom composite can you apply 2Ton lime/acre also?

Who2

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Sadly nowhere to store
Going to clean/open drains around the perimeter soon & around June/July start digging the shores, then add manure & mushroom composite.
Thinking if get that done this year, then maybe next year run the plough/ Rotavator on it to get a seed bed & add more manure/ composite
If we use Mushroom composite can you apply 2Ton lime/acre also?

Apply away

Kevhog1988

Have land at home that grass was left go far too long on last summer and. not grazed until august/september (I was away and father thought he was doing right by leaving It for winter) It seemed to have turned a yellowish colour and has stayed like that. A noticeable difference in what was grazed and ungrazed. Have sheep on it now and it it well grazed.

What should be the course of action to produce good grass in spring??.

Hard Knocks

theemigrant wrote: »

Have land at home that grass was left go far too long on last summer and. not grazed until august/september (I was away and father thought he was doing right by leaving It for winter) It seemed to have turned a yellowish colour and has stayed like that. A noticeable difference in what was grazed and ungrazed. Have sheep on it now and it it well grazed.

What should be the course of action to produce good grass in spring??.

You should get good grass after the sheep cleaning it off.
Some slurry in the spring would crown it

tomwaterford

tractorporn wrote: »

It's definitely not marl/daub that hard knocks is on about. Marl is the furthest thing away from gravel you can find! It's impermeable.

Speaking of marl.... (or murren as it's called here!)...we have circa 1 to 2 inches of sod....then 6 inch to a foot of marl....and then gravel


Was wondering would mole ploughing be a success there,so as to take away surface water??

Who2

tomwaterford wrote: »

Speaking of marl.... (or murren as it's called here!)...we have circa 1 to 2 inches of sod....then 6 inch to a foot of marl....and then gravel


Was wondering would mole ploughing be a success there,so as to take away surface water??

Would you have any pics of it

tomwaterford

Who2 wrote: »

Would you have any pics of it

Tbh I wouldn't as it's few years since main drains were cleared (will be getting done end of summer all going well on lamb prices).....but I recall that was layout


It's just to get rain water off it,I wanted as it deosnt seem to be springs wetting it......just it takes ages to seep to main drains and was hoping mole ploughing could be a cheaper option vs buying lorry loads of Stone. ..iykwim

Limestone Cowboy

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbh I wouldn't as it's few years since main drains were cleared (will be getting done end of summer all going well on lamb prices).....but I recall that was layout


It's just to get rain water off it,I wanted as it deosnt seem to be springs wetting it......just it takes ages to seep to main drains and was hoping mole ploughing could be a cheaper option vs buying lorry loads of Stone. ..iykwim

I did some mole ploughing on similar ground after cleaning out main drains this year and it definitely helped. Can still see water seeping away out of the moles.

Mooooo

Would it be possible to change the fall/ topography of it?

Kevhog1988

Best method of installing water service pipe? Would a man mole plough in 500m ?

Iloverain

I’ve a field here that was going to dig and put a drain in one part of it. Would it be better to wait till the weather dries a bit of would be ok to dig away now?

sea12

Iloverain wrote: »

I’ve a field here that was going to dig and put a drain in one part of it. Would it be better to wait till the weather dries a bit of would be ok to dig away now?

Wait til April when it dries up a bit. You will only make **** of the field now

Good loser

tomwaterford wrote: »

Speaking of marl.... (or murren as it's called here!)...we have circa 1 to 2 inches of sod....then 6 inch to a foot of marl....and then gravel


Was wondering would mole ploughing be a success there,so as to take away surface water??

What about going over the whole field with a digger digging it 2.5 to 3 feet deep. Inverting and mixing. Leave for a year and then till. The gravel could be very tightly packed and could do with shattering.

Aravo

Am thinking of some land drainage. It's peaty soil. Some shores were put in years ago and these worked well. Some more are required. I think the 6m jfc type pipes would be better than the black or yellow rolls. Would be a lot stronger. Surround with 20-30mm stone. Might use a pipe laser as it can be used to give the line, level etc. Would you fill to the top with stone. Or would you place geotextile over stone and then cover with topsoil. Also drainage spacing of 15-20 metres.

Good loser

I always use geotextile. About 21" wide. Mineral soils.