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New York Bar -- what's involved

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  • 20-08-2013 7:28pm
    #1
    FEfuns
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭


    I'm wondering if anyone here has recently sat the New York Bar exam.

    I'll looking at the various online courses -- Pieper looks pretty good and reasonable at around €2k - but I'm concerned about how much time is actually required for an Irish law graduate to study for the exams.

    I'm looking at sitting the Bar in July 2014.

    What are we talking about in terms of sheer hours involved? I've heard 600 hours being bandied about, but for American students with JDs.

    Any experiences in this regard?


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    #2
    misha1970
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭misha1970


    I've just finished my LLM and want to do the New York bar exams in February. I'm thinking it should be okay if I get the books second hand off e-bay, but I've heard such different opinions on whether or not to do a review course. They're so expensive, I'd love to try to do it on my own. Does anyone out there have any suggestions?:o


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    #3
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    title is somewhat mis-leading :p


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    #4
    misha1970
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭misha1970


    I was wondering whether the best option would be to study for the exams myself or to do a structured course leading up to it.


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    #5
    cena
    Registered Users Posts: 10,022 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Do you have to have a degree in law before you can do this exam


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    #6
    misha1970
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭misha1970


    FEfuns wrote: »
    I'm wondering if anyone here has recently sat the New York Bar exam.

    I'll looking at the various online courses -- Pieper looks pretty good and reasonable at around €2k - but I'm concerned about how much time is actually required for an Irish law graduate to study for the exams.

    I'm looking at sitting the Bar in July 2014.

    What are we talking about in terms of sheer hours involved? I've heard 600 hours being bandied about, but for American students with JDs.

    Any experiences in this regard?

    Do Pieper really have a course for 2k? I didnt see thatone- you don't have any more info do you?


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    #7
    tinman09
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭tinman09


    has anyone had difficulty with the letter from your university establishing eligibility. ive emailed NUIG and they've sent me a cover letter that outlines what degree I did and what year it was conferred and lists each subject I took etc but didn't include any grades. Is this sufficient?


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    #8
    misha1970
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭misha1970


    tinman09 wrote: »
    has anyone had difficulty with the letter from your university establishing eligibility. ive emailed NUIG and they've sent me a cover letter that outlines what degree I did and what year it was conferred and lists each subject I took etc but didn't include any grades. Is this sufficient?

    I got the NUIG to put in my grades on the letter as I hear they're sticklers for this...I can't say for sure myself as my eligibilty hasn't been confirmed but that's what I had them do anyway;)


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    #9
    tinman09
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭tinman09


    misha1970 wrote: »
    I got the NUIG to put in my grades on the letter as I hear they're sticklers for this...I can't say for sure myself as my eligibilty hasn't been confirmed but that's what I had them do anyway;)

    Ah cool, they sent me a draft with just the courses i took outlined but I went in today and got my results and copies of my degree and left them for the lady in the law office as she was off, hopefully that'll be enough they were going to send a standard letter with no results. Do you think the nuig letter will do for proof of admission to the 'bar' or equivalent in Ireland? I'm not a qualified barrister or solicitor so I'm concerned about this, but the draft nuig sent me had something to the effect that my LLB was enough to qualify me here. How long have you been waiting for word back on eligibility?


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    #10
    cena
    Registered Users Posts: 10,022 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Does this let you work in nw york


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    #11
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    cena wrote: »
    Does this let you work in nw york

    Its not a visa. But presumably it allows you to practice law in New York Sate while working abroad?

    I'm unclear.


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    #12
    tinman09
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭tinman09


    I have barbri friary notes for sale, few years old but still more than adequate to pass. Extra mbe q's and lecture notes also, going very cheap, pm for details


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    #13
    pipkin12
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭pipkin12


    Hi I'm pretty new to the New York bar idea, 4th yr of University at the moment but can someone break it down for me the actual process? Do i have to apply prior to starting a prep course? Wouldnt dare chance it on my own so probably will fork out the cash for Friary Law but would just love a simple terms breakdown of the process.

    Thanks.


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    #14
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    NYC is completely overflooded with JDs and lawyers. Market sucks. You guys might want to pick somewhere else.


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    #15
    pipkin12
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭pipkin12


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    NYC is completely overflooded with JDs and lawyers. Market sucks. You guys might want to pick somewhere else.

    Would be OK if you're taking the qualification back to Europe though no?


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    #16
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    pipkin12 wrote: »
    Would be OK if you're taking the qualification back to Europe though no?

    To practise in Europe? How would a license to practise NY State law benefit you in Europe?

    Genuine question.


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    #17
    pipkin12
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭pipkin12


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    To practise in Europe? How would a license to practise NY State law benefit you in Europe?

    Genuine question.

    Met the guy who runs the course the other day and he said big american corporations are working within Ireland and Europe. American banks, Google etc. Take on people who have the american qualification which looks great with your original common law background. Sort of dual qualified. More employable or so I'm told.


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    #18
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    pipkin12 wrote: »
    Met the guy who runs the course the other day and he said big american corporations are working within Ireland and Europe. American banks, Google etc. Take on people who have the american qualification which looks great with your original common law background. Sort of dual qualified. More employable or so I'm told.

    Well it would depend on the corporation. Google is not based in New York.

    Sounds like a sales pitch to me.


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    #19
    pipkin12
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭pipkin12


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Well it would depend on the corporation. Google is not based in New York.

    Sounds like a sales pitch to me.

    Its a base grounding in law of another jurisdiction. Another skill set to take elsewhere that was the original point.....open options for later life.


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    #20
    AG918
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 88 ✭✭AG918


    I have considered the New York Bar exams as I have no real desire to practice in Ireland. The plan would be to sit the exams in July 2014 and then move over to New York shortly after receiving the results and spend a year pursuing a career in the legal sector over there in the hope that someone would sponsor me and allow me to stay over there. High hopes, I know.

    My main concern is that if I spend all the money on the Friary Law course, flights, hotels and the exams themselves as well as the huge amount of time I will have to dedicate to studying, there is a very good chance that I will end up with nothing to show for it at all. As mentioned in this thread already, New York is flooded with lawyers and JD's.

    I don't really buy the Friary Law sales pitch and after talking to them I'm still very uncertain as to whether the qualification itself will be of any use outside of New York.


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    #21
    pipkin12
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭pipkin12


    I dont suppose it would be too easy to get feedback from law firms in ireland about it would it? How the industry views people with it as a qualification? I just cant hack the idea of slaving away as a trainee (albeit on good enough cash) having done a placement last year. I reckon i'd take my chances with passing it and transferring my skills to the UK or something. Plus the Law society website says its 1 year PQE in the jurisdiction before they let you sit the QLTT here


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    #22
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    The NY state bar licenses you to practise law in NY State, nowhere else. Not New Jersey, not Connecticut, not California.

    It's like getting a drivers licence. Is a legal qualification that lets you hang a sign outside your door, and call yourself an attorney.

    I cannot possibly see what use it is to anyone who is not living in NY State. It's entirely based on NY State law. It does fteach you how to be a lawyer, its a test of your knowledge of the laws of the land.


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    #23
    pipkin12
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭pipkin12


    Sit around after the FE1s trying to get a contract?
    or
    Expand your horizons and skill sets?

    Be qualified only in Irish Law with only Irish legal perspective?
    or
    Do the New York Bar,demonstrate a willingness to be more marketable for US companies abroad

    Besides it would be an interesting take on law I've already learned. Seeing it soley as a means to pracitce in the US is a very limited viewpoint in my opinion.
    Its a challenge for a person to take on if they so wish, and I dont see how its any more of a waste of time than applying to big Irish firms that only take on certain types of people anyway.


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    #24
    ClaireyFairey1
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭ClaireyFairey1


    Does anyone have any books/notes for nyb for sale? :)


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    #25
    alexandertowers
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭alexandertowers


    I sat the New York Bar exam in 2013. I did a Friary course in Dublin but found it pretty terrible and overpriced- however the notes provided from BarBri were ultimately what helped me pass. I'm now working in New York City as an attorney.

    Whether or not it's "worth it” depends entirely on where you want to go. I did a couple of internships in Dublin with firms and realized that I didn’t like the idea of doing the whole FE1/Traineeship route as it just took too long (usually 2-3 years) and didn’t really offer much in terms of options at the end of it (only qualified in Ireland and only with “trainee” experience). So I decided to take the New York Bar as it allows you to become an attorney and begin practicing immediately. I graduated from my Irish university in December 2012 and by December 2013 I was working as an attorney in Manhattan.

    Now I realize I was very lucky in terms of being able to find a job and a work visa, but taking the NY Bar definitely worked out well for me and now means I have a lot more options moving forward. Soon I will have a year’s experience, which means I can take Ireland’s Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test in summer 2015 and being a NY attorney also means I can also sit the UK’s Qualified Lawyers Transfer Scheme in February 2015 - theoretically meaning qualification in three different countries in less time than it takes to qualify as a solicitor in Ireland straight from college.

    My interest is really in Internet Law though and so after college I saw that a lot of the positions for solicitors/attorneys in firms and companies that work with internet law stated a strong preference for dual US/EU qualifications. Hence I figured the NY Bar could be a useful first step.

    I can completely understand the argument that the NY bar isn’t really going to help you a great deal in terms of legal work in Dublin or London. Many of the people I studied with were really just doing it to add a line to their CV and I would agree that considering the cost and effort required it’s really not worth it if you don’t plan to do some actual practice in New York. However for anyone seeking an alternative to the usual FE1/Traineeship route or for anyone seeking future career options with regard to different jurisdictions, I’d recommend giving some thought to taking the NY Bar.


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