A step to far

Happy Campers x 5

Hi All,
As the title suggests, I would like your opion on something please. My daughter goes into L.c. next week, she has a part time job in a local shop and she loves it. We have spoken to her about cutting down to 1 evening a week at weekend for the next school year and she has agreed. She came home tonight and told us that they will be let go soon, because the principal has spoken to management and told then she wants none of her students working in the shop for L.c. Can she do this ? As far as I'm concerened from 4 pm to 9 am and weekends she has know say about what my daughter does or am I missing something. Remember we all agreed that she cut down to 1 evening a week as is normal in this shop in other years for L.c. students. Has the principal taken things, A step to far.

MightyMandarin

Probably done in good faith but yeah it is a bit much if she does know its 1 evening on weekends. I say just contact the principal and shop and it should be alright

Days 298

Its none of the principals business what students do outside of school, especially 6th years. They are if not already basically adults. There are a lot worse things students will waste time with than an evening making some money, pubs, facebook and procrastinating come to mind.

Tell the principal to f*ck off. Your her parent not him ffs.

randylonghorn

It's a bit much all right.

Probably the very best of intentions, but a bit autocratic / high-handed to say the least.

Why is the shop kowtowing? Do they get a lot of custom from the school or what?

spurious

Did you let the Principal know that she had decided to cut her hours for her LC year?

Happy Campers x 5

Days 298

Tell the principal to f*ck off. Your her parent not him ffs.

I've every intension of telling her where to go. Just wondering what other's thought. I'll ring Dept of Ed first thing in the morn to see what they say about it and I'll mention know name's in that phone call and if they agree with me, principal will get a talking to and if that doesn't work back to the Dept with names and any where else I have to go.

Daniel7740

I dunno whose worse. the principal or her boss for listening to the principal. if the student wanted to stop to spend time studying she would have told her boss herself

Happy Campers x 5

Thanks for reply's,
I can't understand why the school are bowing to her, just to keep the piece I'd say. That could lead to another thread on legal discussions.
Yes the principal has been told by us that she will be cutting back for next year, it's also common practice in this shop to drop L c students to 1 shift a week. But even at that is it any of her business ?

Peregrine

Happy Campers x 5 wrote: »

But even at that is it any of her business ?

No. There are more important that things she should be worrying about than students doing a bit of honest work once a week.

LFC Paddy

Happy Campers x 5 wrote: »

Hi All,
As the title suggests, I would like your opion on something please. My daughter goes into L.c. next week, she has a part time job in a local shop and she loves it. We have spoken to her about cutting down to 1 evening a week at weekend for the next school year and she has agreed. She came home tonight and told us that they will be let go soon, because the principal has spoken to management and told then she wants none of her students working in the shop for L.c. Can she do this ? As far as I'm concerened from 4 pm to 9 am and weekends she has know say about what my daughter does or am I missing something. Remember we all agreed that she cut down to 1 evening a week as is normal in this shop in other years for L.c. students. Has the principal taken things, A step to far.

ERRRMMMMM a lad in my school was working and as it interfered with school he had to lessen working hrs, but its only if it interferes with school time not sure about after hrs. Never heard about being forced to quit, bit strong if you ask me but I think she has the power IF it interferes with school work.

Happy Campers x 5

LFC Paddy;86112223]ERRRMMMMM a lad in my school was working and as it interfered with school he had to lessen working hrs, but its only if it interferes with school time not sure about after hrs. Never heard about being forced to quit, bit strong if you ask me but I think she has the power IF it interferes with school work.

Yes I can agree with this, IF. I know you are going to say everyone thinks there own are the best, but this kid is doing pretty good at school not to worried about her that way, knows what she want's to do when she finishes school, I'm out of work due to illness long term and she helps her mam every week with a few bob. She payed for 2 weeks holidays in France for the 5 of us tis year. She's that kind of kid. Principal knows all of this too.

aimzLc2

Happy Campers x 5 wrote: »

Yes I can agree with this, IF. I know you are going to say everyone thinks there own are the best, but this kid is doing pretty good at school not to worried about her that way, knows what she want's to do when she finishes school, I'm out of work due to illness long term and she helps her mam every week with a few bob. She payed for 2 weeks holidays in France for the 5 of us tis year. She's that kind of kid. Principal knows all of this too.

I agree that the principal should not have gone that far and its not up to her what really goes on outside school but i'd say she was really just trying to help! she probably has seen students with jobs struggle with their time ,she should have communicated this instead of acting on it but i don't think she is wrong! if she doesn't need the job this year it would be great to have as much time as possible to study.

randylonghorn

Happy Campers x 5 wrote: »

I've every intension of telling her where to go. Just wondering what other's thought. I'll ring Dept of Ed first thing in the morn to see what they say about it and I'll mention know name's in that phone call and if they agree with me, principal will get a talking to and if that doesn't work back to the Dept with names and any where else I have to go.

While I understand your irritation, may be a bit of an over-reaction tbh. No need to go all Joe Duffy over it; it will only sour your relationship and your daughter's with the principal, especially as, while I don't agree with her actions, I'd say she had good intentions.

It might be a better idea to make an appointment to meet the principal; sit down with her and explain courteously that you are unhappy about her actions; that you as parents had sat down with your daughter and agreed a sensible compromise; that you feel that one evening a week is unlikely to interfere with her schoolwork and will help her to learn responsibility; that you will be keeping the situation under review in case it does start to interfere, and that in fact you as her parents are responsible for her time out of school (along with herself ofc) and not the school authorities, and that if she had concerns she should have communicated with you, not the girl's employer.

LFC Paddy

:P

Happy Campers x 5 wrote: »

LFC Paddy;86112223]ERRRMMMMM a lad in my school was working and as it interfered with school he had to lessen working hrs, but its only if it interferes with school time not sure about after hrs. Never heard about being forced to quit, bit strong if you ask me but I think she has the power IF it interferes with school work.

Yes I can agree with this, IF. I know you are going to say everyone thinks there own are the best, but this kid is doing pretty good at school not to worried about her that way, knows what she want's to do when she finishes school, I'm out of work due to illness long term and she helps her mam every week with a few bob. She payed for 2 weeks holidays in France for the 5 of us tis year. She's that kind of kid. Principal knows all of this too.

Yer i Know I Was just exaggerating the if coz it sounds to me that it isn't interfering and the principal is in the wrong, the lad I was on about actually took a day off every so often so he could work thats how I know they have that power but I haven't a clue when it comes to after hrs

But it also sounds the principal wants what best for her.:o

yoho139

spurious wrote: »

Did you let the Principal know that she had decided to cut her hours for her LC year?

Irrelevant. It's none of his/her business what the student does outside of school while not representing the school (i.e. not wearing the uniform).

randylonghorn

yoho139 wrote: »

It's none of his/her business what the student does outside of school while not representing the school (i.e. not wearing the uniform).

And yet ... if a principal stood up and said "I don't care what the students do after 4 o'clock, regardless of whether it impacts on their schoolwork or their results in August!", I bet there would be an outcry from students and parents then as well!

I think this principal probably had good intentions; I disagree totally with her way of doing things though.

yoho139

Yes, but there would also be outcry if they stood up and said "No students are to take part in extracurricular activities as that may impact their schoolwork or results". The point is that they shouldn't be forcing anything on the students outside school hours. Keep them in detention for not doing schoolwork or whatever as an incentive to do it, but don't follow them around outside school and make them do it.

randylonghorn

yoho139 wrote: »

Yes, but there would also be outcry if they stood up and said "No students are to take part in extracurricular activities as that may impact their schoolwork or results". The point is that they shouldn't be forcing anything on the students outside school hours. Keep them in detention for not doing schoolwork or whatever as an incentive to do it, but don't follow them around outside school and make them do it.

Did you miss the bit where I said that I disagreed totally with her way of doing it?

My view is that if the principal had concerns, she should have talked to the student(s) / parents about them in the first place.

I'm simply saying that your statement: "It's none of his/her business what the student does outside of school while not representing the school (i.e. not wearing the uniform)" is all very well to an extent, but if you stop and think about it, a principal who took that attitude completely would also be lambasted.

The world is very seldom about black and white; there are hundreds of shades of grey, and absolutes never work very well.

Days 298

randylonghorn wrote: »

And yet ... if a principal stood up and said "I don't care what the students do after 4 o'clock, regardless of whether it impacts on their schoolwork or their results in August!", I bet there would be an outcry from students and parents then as well!

I think this principal probably had good intentions; I disagree totally with her way of doing things though.

Theres the key word. Principals should care in some way, make suggestions but taking over parenting or if the student is an adult, intruding into their personal life and actual making lifestyle changes crosses boundaries, especially when its a job and in a time where an extra few euro in any family is welcome.

Once a student is 18 they can drink and smoke outside of school hours and are perfectly entitled to. A job aint the worst thing to when not at your desk. Itd be like he told the local shop to stop selling alcohol and cigs to 6th year students of their school. It would be good intentions but still none of the schools business.

This is just a case where the principal is waving his authority wand where it doesn't belong. Authority gone to a teachers head ....never!:pac: Every school has a teacher like that.:D

A mate of mine used to drive on L plates to school and parked outside the school and when a teacher approached him in school and told him to stop driving to and from school without an accompanying driver. Told the teacher to mind her own business. Its about clearly marking your relationship with the school and setting a boundary the student is comfortable with and standing firm.

yoho139

randylonghorn wrote: »

Did you miss the bit where I said that I disagreed totally with her way of doing it?

Nope, just discussing the point.

randylonghorn wrote: »

if you stop and think about it, a principal who took that attitude completely would also be lambasted.

They'd be lambasted if they made it a public statement "I don't care what they do so long as it doesn't reflect it on us". However, by making that same statement through action (or inaction, as the case may be) it's fine. My principal admitted that students smoke and that it's none of his business if they do it outside of school so long as they're not in uniform. Note that he wasn't condoning illegal activity, but simply saying that the school does not wish to be associated with anything that may reflect upon them negatively (like a student working instead of studying, if you have seriously skewed views of what's a bad thing), but that it's ultimately none of their business what a student does outside school.

randylonghorn wrote: »

The world is very seldom about black and white; there are hundreds of shades of grey, and absolutes never work very well.

True. But the point remains that students are not the principal's responsibility outside of school, they're their parents' responsibility or their own (if over 18 and accounting for any applicable laws of dependency). That principal was out of line, IMHO.

spurious

Thread clsoed.
OP I suggest the Parenting forum if you wish to discuss it more. It's not a Leaving Cert issue.