diesel cars

walus

In my opinion anyone doing only 5k km per year would be mad buying a diesel car. Since diesel engine is more efficient than petrol it will never reach optimum working temperature for OP here who would be doing 6.5 kilometers per average trip. Consequently he is never going to see low MPG figures. If anything the fuel consumption would be similar to a petrol car of a similar body/engine size. On top of that you have potential DPF issues and general servicing cost that is higher for diesel than a petrol car (different grade engine oil etc.).
The best thing you can do OP is get one of the pre 2008 Lexus or Jags. Incredible value for money, and in say GS300 you will fit in no problem. The car has almost totally lost on its value at this stage so you will not see your money evaporating with each year of driving a brand new car.

ThisRegard

Max Power1 wrote: »

What car is that then? I was under the impression that since Euro IV all diesels needed a DPF to get under the emissions limit

A 2010 Megane. I think the first lot didn't come with them but within a few months when they changed the engine line up they started to have them fitted.

serious3 wrote: »

by modern i mean these 1.5 and 1.6 diesels, the renault 1.5dci is downright dangerous when you drop out of the turbo!

The one that doesn't necessarily have a DPF fitted ?

listermint

Max Power1 wrote: »

My 2006 e60 diesel has a perfectly linear power delivery, and minimal lag



Ok, so 8-9 cent per liter. A saving of a couple of euro per tank (about €4 on a 50l fill). How many savings of €4 does it take to make up the cost of depreciation, higher initial outlay, and the cost of replacing a DPF and/or turbo etc??

I missed no point you were making, contrarily I see that you seem to have missed the whole discussion if you are advocating a modern diesel for low mileage and short trips.

He wasnt making a point, just trying to be different for the sake of it i would assume, In his opening post he tells the OP do do a cost analysis and fails to actually work out the difference himself.

For the OP diesel makes no financial sense. regardless of the meager savings at the pump.

serious3

ThisRegard wrote: »

The one that doesn't necessarily have a DPF fitted ?

how exactly is a DPF related to turbo lag?

ThisRegard

I was responding to the points you were making about loving petrols as there's no DPF to worry about and the costs of replacing the same.

dgt

serious3 wrote: »

by modern i mean these 1.5 and 1.6 diesels, the renault 1.5dci is downright dangerous when you drop out of the turbo!

We are talking about a 1.5 engine with a relatively small turbo developing 85bhp. 15 years ago 2.0 diesels were barely producing that, don't be too hard on it. It's turbo isn't even VNT



When does it begin building boost? The map is to the left, so minimal lag. It looks to spin very fast and can work very hard (theoretically, if there were no airbox, pipework etc I'm assuming that it can develop 3.2 bar pressure), seems to have a linear choke curve (72% peak efficiency)


Seems well suited to the engine if I'm honest

serious3 wrote: »

how exactly is a DPF related to turbo lag?

Minimal increase of back pressure

Max Power1

serious3 wrote: »

by modern i mean these 1.5 and 1.6 diesels, the renault 1.5dci is downright dangerous when you drop out of the turbo!

So my e60 is not modern? :P Although I get what you mean.

walus wrote: »

In my opinion anyone doing only 5k km per year would be mad buying a diesel car. Since diesel engine is more efficient than petrol it will never reach optimum working temperature for OP here who would be doing 6.5 kilometers per average trip. Consequently he is never going to see low MPG figures. If anything the fuel consumption would be similar to a petrol car of a similar body/engine size. On top of that you have potential DPF issues and general servicing cost that is higher for diesel than a petrol car (different grade engine oil etc.).
The best thing you can do OP is get one of the pre 2008 Lexus or Jags. Incredible value for money, and in say GS300 you will fit in no problem. The car has almost totally lost on its value at this stage so you will not see your money evaporating with each year of driving a brand new car.

Totally +1 on this, it is what I have been saying throughout all threads on this topic

listermint wrote: »

He wasnt making a point, just trying to be different for the sake of it i would assume, In his opening post he tells the OP do do a cost analysis and fails to actually work out the difference himself.

For the OP diesel makes no financial sense. regardless of the meager savings at the pump.

Agreed. Cant see any logic in it tbh. The only diesel I would buy to do 5k per year in would be that 7.3 v8 truck I posted in the chat thread yesterday :P

Max Power1

ThisRegard wrote: »

A 2010 Megane. I think the first lot didn't come with them but within a few months when they changed the engine line up they started to have them fitted.



The one that doesn't necessarily have a DPF fitted ?

Have to say I did not know that. You (I) learn something new every day. Did not expect a ,10 diesel to not have a DPF fitted.

ThisRegard

Max Power1 wrote: »

Have to say I did not know that. You (I) learn something new every day. Did not expect a ,10 diesel to not have a DPF fitted.

When looking at the spec sheets of the range when we picked ours up I noticed there was none fitted, and last time it was in for a service I got them to verify the fact.

I done a bit of googling to see when they came in as standard and it looks like that for a while you could simultaneously get both non and DPF fitted engines, maybe not in Ireland, but elsewhere at least.

The 1.5 litre dCi engine comes in a choice of four power outputs, with or without a particulate filter (dCi 85, dCi 90 DPF, dCi 105 and dCi 110 DPF).

Then I spotted this in the same article, but as to the veracity of it I've no idea, or even what country it applies, but it reads like a Renault press release

The dCi 90 DPF, dCi 105, dCi 110 DPF, dCi 130 and dCi 130 DPF engines all figure among the best in their class in terms of running and maintenance costs, with oil changes recommended every 30,000km (or two years) and timing belt changes every 160,000km. The particulate filters now benefit from a lifetime warranty

walus

At 30k km service intervals I can not see the engine lasting much beyond 120k km for a diesel. Crazy stuff altogether.

discombobulate

I don't do 5k miles myself but was just wondering about the EGR/DPF/DMF issues related to low mileage. I'm presuming its short spins rather than low mileage that would be the issue here?

What if someone was doing a 100 miles per week in two 50 mile runs on main roads. Surely its the type of driving rather than the mileage that would cause trouble?

PS i'm disregarding higher purchase price etc. and just wondering are the main issues only driving type issues rather than mileage issues?

JohnBoy26

discombobulate wrote: »

I don't do 5k miles myself but was just wondering about the EGR/DPF/DMF issues related to low mileage. I'm presuming its short spins rather than low mileage that would be the issue here?

What if someone was doing a 100 miles per week in two 50 mile runs on main roads. Surely its the type of driving rather than the mileage that would cause trouble?

PS i'm disregarding higher purchase price etc. and just wondering are the main issues only driving type issues rather than mileage issues?

Exactly, it's how and where you use the car that is more important than the actual mileage you accumulate during the year.

For example a car doing 5k a year on the motorway is less likely to give issues compared to a car doing 15k a year in stop/start town driving.

Two 50 mile runs a week on main roads should be grand also Imo as that amount of driving will give the car plenty of time to reach operating temperature and won't involve stop/start driving.

thegreatiam

HJL wrote: »

Another option would be something small-ish, but with a high roof. Something like a Fiat Panda, should be plenty of such cars in petrol. I have never been in a Fiat Panda however when ever I see on I always imagine a top hat could be worn whilst driving.

My driving instructor was 6 foot 5 and had a panda. He'd be in it 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week and he claims it's more than comfortable for him. Infact he has 2, 1 auto 1 manual.

Would defo look at a "high" car rather than a big car for a tall person.

walus

thegreatiam wrote: »

My driving instructor was 6 foot 5 and had a panda. He'd be in it 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week and he claims it's more than comfortable for him. Infact he has 2, 1 auto 1 manual.

Would defo look at a "high" car rather than a big car for a tall person.

It has more to do with the size of the seat and its range of adjustment than with the size of the car. The rule is though that bigger cars have bigger seats.

Renegade Mechanic

Max Power1 wrote: »

Have to say I did not know that. You (I) learn something new every day. Did not expect a ,10 diesel to not have a DPF fitted.

Iirc, the Fiat 1.3 jtd lump is able to get in under the bar without a dpf too. Good engine as long as you dont mind the turbo poking holes in the plastic inlet manifold :rolleyes:

Old diesel

OP - whats the budget, whats your current car and reason(s) for changing.

You could consider going back to 08/09 if it meant getting the car you want - the extra year or 2 isn't going to make that much difference - if the cars going to be a lemon - being a 2010 isn't really going to make much difference imo.

colm_mcm

Honda couldn't sell the civic ictdi for a lot of 2011 because they couldn't engineer in a dpf.

JohnBoy26

colm_mcm wrote: »

Honda couldn't sell the civic ictdi for a lot of 2011 because they couldn't engineer in a dpf.

They probably could of if they wanted to but it wouldn't of been cost effective given that they had a new model coming out in less than 12 months with the newer i-dtec engine.

colm_mcm

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

They probably could of if they wanted to but it wouldn't of been cost effective given that they had a new model coming out in less than 12 months with the newer i-dtec engine.

There really isn't that much room under there with the fuel tank up front and the low boot floor. The accord had one.

derry

Really the deprecation cost of new cars for 5k a year you could probably take out a contract with taxi company and save your money

As I said when I lived in Munich Germany when every taxi in those days was a Merc I was the happiest Merc owner in the planet stick out the hand call TAXI and i got door to door chauffeur driven at fraction of the price of owning a car .

You can Insist on Taxi with good head room for the passenger there are so many taxis now you can probably always get what you ask for unless your in middle of nowhere in Ireland

Ultimately if your the outdoor type not deterred by the rain and snow and for short distance routes a big motorbike will give you infinite headroom and reasonble MPG with the new big bike

If your set on the ownership of car the modern petrol's from 2010 onwards often give very good MPG if driven with a not heavy right foot so the case for diesels is now more marginal .
Get a big SUV thing or a large 4x4 in petrol and if necessary import one . MPG isn't that big a factor on small kilometers especially if the car is newer 2010 the deprecation cost would make even ~15 MPG look like a small cost .

There is another factor to consider if the 5k per annum is involving long periods with the car at rest not being driven such as your away from the car for months at a time .Petrol and diesel fuels are now both not stable fuels and deteriorate and have a official 3 month life span (I don't know if the fuels last longer than that official figure ).
The damage old bad fuel does to the petrol car is much cheaper to fix than the damage the bad fuel does to diesel engine cars .
If you know your leaving the car static for long period draining the tanks is good idea and then putting in stabilized fuels is the best solutions, but in Eire they only sell stabilized petrol fuels to my knowledge (Blue bottle Aspen fuels costs about €5 a liter good for several years ).If not then your either looking for fuel additives that can stabilize the fuels and that i don't know where to obtain those in ROI .
There are specialists car storage places that can attend to cars rarely used each year .


Derry

JohnBoy26

colm_mcm wrote: »

There really isn't that much room under there with the fuel tank up front and the low boot floor. The accord had one.

This is Honda we are talking about though, they could engineer a dpf to fit where there isn't room for paint if they wanted to

Andrew_Doran

thegreatiam wrote: »

My driving instructor was 6 foot 5 and had a panda. He'd be in it 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week and he claims it's more than comfortable for him. Infact he has 2, 1 auto 1 manual.

Would defo look at a "high" car rather than a big car for a tall person.

The seat base on the Panda moves separately from the seat back. So the height adjustment (if it has an adjustable one) lets you adjust the seat to the shape of your back and your behind rather than just moving the whole lot up and down as in most cars. It's cheap, cheerful and ingenious like a lot of things Fiat does.