Peru drug smuggling case - READ OP BEFORE POSTING

Rightwing

paddy147 wrote: »

Does the solicitor know that holding cells and prison cells are not like hotel rooms in the Hilton Hotel or Holiday Inn.

He does know that right??


I think the media sympathy vote is fading fast now,and also seen as that the Peruvian authorities have more or less said,we dont believe the girls at all,they are lieing.

The media never give a fcuk about anyone.

Allyall

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Perhaps they are telling the truth?

I don't think there is anyone alive (including their parents) that has heard their story, and at this stage still believes it.

If they were to insist on sticking to it, i would use the next 6 months to convince them to say anything. "Yes, it was my decision, i wanted to make some extra cash", "as a matter of fact, i prostituted myself on Ibiza for the month beforehand, to get the cash for the flights and the Coke."

My main priority now, would be to spend as little time in there as possible, and it seems that the easiest way to make that happen, is to plead guilty, and be as cooperative with the investigators as possible.

This is where the "Guilty until proven innocent" thing that somebody mentioned earlier comes in. They are doing their time anyway, and if they plead not guilty, the case takes longer.

So, does anyone know what the solicitor, madden will do now, is he finished whatever work he was doing over there or will he stay for a few more days to do some work also? anyone hear?

I am pie

Completely irrelevant but I passed through Lima airport on a connecting flight, very modern and pleasant airport. Peru has one of the best performing (stable growth etc) economies in the region and a fairly moderate government. It is becoming a much better place to live and work for peruvians who have for a long time had to leave for the likes of Argentina to get on in life. Lima is a weekend destination for many is a well positioned to exploit tourism even more than just the traditional hiking/cusco tourist trail. All of this is placed at risk by the fact that it has overtaken Colombia as the major exporter of coke in the world. Hardly surprising they aren't rolling out the red carpet for the pringle 2.

It is definitely not the 3rd world hole that some people are making it out to be in order to drum up sympathy for our pringle deprived mules. Anyone I talked to here seems to think that regardless of their innocence or otherwise they are playing the same card that every other mule plays..i.e. claiming they were forced, bringing in a lawyer from abroad with no experience and that generally come the time of the trial they plead guilty after having the fact laid out before them by a local lawyer. They are going to jail, that is happening, they just need to decide how long they would like to be inside for.

Plead guilty and name names. Start with the apologising and forget about your crisps and biscuits.

Allyall

I am pie wrote: »

regardless of their innocence or otherwise they are playing the same card that every other mule plays..i.e. claiming they were forced, bringing in a lawyer from abroad with no experience and that generally come the time of the trial they plead guilty after having the fact laid out before them by a local lawyer. They are going to jail, that is happening, they just need to decide how long they would like to be inside for.

Plead guilty and name names. Start with the apologising and forget about your crisps and biscuits.

Woah... Slow down there.. I agreed with everything you said up to the "forget about your crisps and biscuits"..

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I am pie wrote: »

Completely irrelevant but I passed through Lima airport on a connecting flight, very modern and pleasant airport. Peru has one of the best performing (stable growth etc) economies in the region and a fairly moderate government. It is becoming a much better place to live and work for peruvians who have for a long time had to leave for the likes of Argentina to get on in life. Lima is a weekend destination for many is a well positioned to exploit tourism even more than just the traditional hiking/cusco tourist trail. All of this is placed at risk by the fact that it has overtaken Colombia as the major exporter of coke in the world. Hardly surprising they aren't rolling out the red carpet for the pringle 2.

It is definitely not the 3rd world hole that some people are making it out to be in order to drum up sympathy for our pringle deprived mules. Anyone I talked to here seems to think that regardless of their innocence or otherwise they are playing the same card that every other mule plays..i.e. claiming they were forced, bringing in a lawyer from abroad with no experience and that generally come the time of the trial they plead guilty after having the fact laid out before them by a local lawyer. They are going to jail, that is happening, they just need to decide how long they would like to be inside for.

Plead guilty and name names. Start with the apologising and forget about your crisps and biscuits.

Stepping in dodgey territory there no? I'd imagine excruciating death awaits those who name names.

Allyall

Emelia Mysterious Cheese wrote: »

Stepping in dodgey territory there no? I'd imagine excruciating death awaits those who name names.

Doubt it.

I'd risk it. They're not as big as they make out or may seem to people on the Island of Ibiza. If they're using mules, then it's more likely that they are (relatively) small time.

Galwayguy35

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Perhaps they are telling the truth?

They had oppurtunities to call for help at the airports if they were being forced to do it against their will.

I'm sure their families will still believe their story but it's doubtful anyone else will.

I am pie

Allyall wrote: »

Woah... Slow down there.. I agreed with everything you said up to the "forget about your crisps and biscuits"..

Like it or not, it's all about building a repentant image in front of the sentencing judge. They would want in every way possible to start demonstrating remorse and acceptance. They should not be allowing anyone to represent them who attacks the country's legal system nor should they be complaining about conditions. It's childishly simple, every small bit of bad PR in front of the judge will add to their sentence.

So yes, forget about the fckin crisps and biscuits, start saying they have been treated fairly and have not been mistreated & underfed etc....fck whether it is true or not, just start singing the right song as soon as possible.

I am pie

Allyall wrote: »

Doubt it.

I'd risk it. They're not as big as they make out or may seem to people on the Island of Ibiza. If they're using mules, then it's more likely that they are (relatively) small time.

So long as they head back off to Scotland and Ireland I doubt they will be under much threat. We aren't talking about Pablo Escobar here...a few small time clowns using impressionable teenagers. I doubt they have the reach to turn up in Tyrone shooting people....

I wouldnt turn up in Tyrone threatening anyone in fairness!

Kidchameleon

Allyall wrote: »

I don't think there is anyone alive (including their parents) that has heard their story, and at this stage still believes it.

If they were to insist on sticking to it, i would use the next 6 months to convince them to say anything. "Yes, it was my decision, i wanted to make some extra cash", "as a matter of fact, i prostituted myself on Ibiza for the month beforehand, to get the cash for the flights and the Coke."

My main priority now, would be to spend as little time in there as possible, and it seems that the easiest way to make that happen, is to plead guilty, and be as cooperative with the investigators as possible.

This is where the "Guilty until proven innocent" thing that somebody mentioned earlier comes in. They are doing their time anyway, and if they plead not guilty, the case takes longer.

I also think they should plead guilty to get a shorter time locked up. But perhaps pleading guilty IS a lie. You or I dont know for sure.

Allyall

I am pie wrote: »

Like it or not, it's all about building a repentant image in front of the sentencing judge. They would want in every way possible to start demonstrating remorse and acceptance. They should not be allowing anyone to represent them who attacks the country's legal system nor should they be complaining about conditions. It's childishly simple, every small bit of bad PR in front of the judge will add to their sentence.

So yes, forget about the fckin crisps and biscuits, start saying they have been treated fairly and have not been mistreated & underfed etc....fck whether it is true or not, just start singing the right song as soon as possible.

Was JK about the Biscuits and crisps.
I think the last thing they should be doing is annoying the judicial system over there, and i strongly believe that they should change their plea, and give all information they have, no matter how insignificant they may believe it to be.

I am pie wrote: »

So long as they head back off to Scotland and Ireland I doubt they will be under much threat. We aren't talking about Pablo Escobar here...a few small time clowns using impressionable teenagers. I doubt they have the reach to turn up in Tyrone shooting people....

I wouldnt turn up in Tyrone threatening anyone in fairness!

I'd love if they tried and there were plenty of people waiting.

The reality is probably that these clowns were introduced to someone, and someone else etc.. the only reason they are allowed to continue their 'operation' is because they often take the spotlight from the bigger players, also with so many smaller operations trying to get through, the bigger ones can go less noticed.

Allyall

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I also think they should plead guilty to get a shorter time locked up. But perhaps pleading guilty IS a lie. You or I dont know for sure.

I'd be willing to bet everything i own on their story being a lie.

I'd guess the two feel hard done by now, but no way in hell do i believe

they were forced to Peru to bring back drugs to Europe by armed Colombian criminals who threatened them and their families if they failed to obey orders and followed them every step of the way.

Nope.

Amazingfun

EdCastle wrote: »

I would, what a crock!

You're living in some fairy land if you think these mules will profit from this story, where are all these others flogging books and doing interviews. Only a small minority achieve this and only because they keep themselves relevant and newsworthy.....they are in Peru on the other side of the planet.

People are interested in the drama that unfolds right now not the drama that happened 3-10 years ago. How many dramatic news discussion threads have come and gone just as quickly on Boards? A hell of a lot.

In 6-10 years time they'll be yesterday's news and nobody will care because we'll all still be concentrating on the 'here & now', they'll be just a casual afterthought. People will more than likely go 'Who? Oh yeah....what happened to them in the end anyways?'

An episode of 'Banged Up Abroad' at best.

This guy is making a good living post-prison, but I suspect he has embellished his prison-time story somewhat:

http://jonsjailjournal.blogspot.ie/

Shaun Attwood.

Stargate

I am pie wrote: »

Completely irrelevant but I passed through Lima airport on a connecting flight, very modern and pleasant airport. Peru has one of the best performing (stable growth etc) economies in the region and a fairly moderate government. It is becoming a much better place to live and work for peruvians who have for a long time had to leave for the likes of Argentina to get on in life. Lima is a weekend destination for many is a well positioned to exploit tourism even more than just the traditional hiking/cusco tourist trail. All of this is placed at risk by the fact that it has overtaken Colombia as the major exporter of coke in the world. Hardly surprising they aren't rolling out the red carpet for the pringle 2.

It is definitely not the 3rd world hole that some people are making it out to be in order to drum up sympathy for our pringle deprived mules. Anyone I talked to here seems to think that regardless of their innocence or otherwise they are playing the same card that every other mule plays..i.e. claiming they were forced, bringing in a lawyer from abroad with no experience and that generally come the time of the trial they plead guilty after having the fact laid out before them by a local lawyer. They are going to jail, that is happening, they just need to decide how long they would like to be inside for.

Plead guilty and name names. Start with the apologising and forget about your crisps and biscuits.

People do not realize the SEVERE SECURITY at Jorge Chavas International Airport Lima Peru !!

As you enter the gates you are greeted by Armed army/police officers staggered every 30 meters. You have to pass many armed checks before you even get to the car park before you even enter the Departures Lounge.

Sniffer dogs, Security staff, Armed police everywhere (uniformed and under cover ) specially downstairs , Upstairs is where you go to depart

If you shout for help , im sure it would attract attention

Look at this excellent BBC doc , it will show HOW BAD the coca problem is in Peru !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMn0Q9wy8Hs

For those of you who never been to Lima ...

Here's the Airport
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTMcXtGuEfo


Regards
Stargate

I am pie

Stargate wrote: »

People do not realize the SEVERE SECURITY at Jorge Chavas International Airport Lima Peru !!

As you enter the gates you are greeted by Armed army/police officers staggered every 30 meters. You have to pass many armed checks before you even get to the car park before you even enter the Departures Lounge.

Sniffer dogs, Security staff, Armed police everywhere (uniformed and under cover ) specially downstairs , Upstairs is where you go to depart

If you shout for help , im sure it would attract attention

Look at this excellent BBC doc , it will show HOW BAD the coca problem is in Peru !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMn0Q9wy8Hs

For those of you who never been to Lima ...

Here's the Airport
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTMcXtGuEfo


Regards
Stargate

There were more people selling pisco sours than looking for coke in my experience!

In fairness I was only picking up a connecting flight so we were "airside" the whole time. Didn't see the security on the other side but it was fairly light touch for international transit passengers.

Stargate

To be honest .their Lawyer from Northern Ireland isn't doing a very good job , guess he doesn't know how things work in Peru work ? Lima is not Belfast /Dublin

Stargate

I am pie wrote: »

There were more people selling pisco sours than looking for coke in my experience!

In fairness I was only picking up a connecting flight so we were "airside" the whole time. Didn't see the security on the other side but it was fairly light touch for international transit passengers.

Lovely airport inside

I am pie

Stargate wrote: »

To be honest .their Lawyer from Northern Ireland isn't doing a very good job , guess he doesn't know how things work in Peru work ? Lima is not Belfast /Dublin

I know the embassy aren't obliged to get involved here and normally let the local country's justice system take care of things, but you would wonder are they not better putting a call into the girl's family telling them to get a local lawyer organised at least. As far as I can tell the guy has went out there told them they are doing it all wrong and that they should be out on bail.

Good work. Wonder if he enjoyed his wee holiday.

Stargate

I am pie wrote: »

I know the embassy aren't obliged to get involved here and normally let the local country's justice system take care of things, but you would wonder are they not better putting a call into the girl's family telling them to get a local lawyer organised at least. As far as I can tell the guy has went out there told them they are doing it all wrong and that they should be out on bail.

Good work. Wonder if he enjoyed his wee holiday.

Not wanting to sound sarcastic , but when i heard of him flying out my first thought was ......holiday time . Its cold in Lima at the moment , its winter time there .

But , yes hire a local lawyer and most of all , stop shouting the odds

Kidnap story .. authorities in Lima heard it maybe a billion times before . Not gonna wash with them tbh.

Stargate

purplecow1977

Stargate wrote: »

People do not realize the SEVERE SECURITY at Jorge Chavas International Airport Lima Peru !!

As you enter the gates you are greeted by Armed army/police officers staggered every 30 meters. You have to pass many armed checks before you even get to the car park before you even enter the Departures Lounge.

Sniffer dogs, Security staff, Armed police everywhere (uniformed and under cover ) specially downstairs , Upstairs is where you go to depart

If you shout for help , im sure it would attract attention

Look at this excellent BBC doc , it will show HOW BAD the coca problem is in Peru !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMn0Q9wy8Hs

For those of you who never been to Lima ...

Here's the Airport
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTMcXtGuEfo


Regards
Stargate

I flew into Lima and flew from Lima to Madrid (ironically!) and didn't have this experience of extreme security at all. Unless things have changed in the last 3 years.

Stargate

I am pie wrote: »

I know the embassy aren't obliged to get involved here and normally let the local country's justice system take care of things, but you would wonder are they not better putting a call into the girl's family telling them to get a local lawyer organised at least. As far as I can tell the guy has went out there told them they are doing it all wrong and that they should be out on bail.

Good work. Wonder if he enjoyed his wee holiday.

purplecow1977 wrote: »

I flew into Lima and flew from Lima to Madrid (ironically!) and didn't have this experience of extreme security at all. Unless things have changed in the last 3 years.

You mustn't have been carrying anything funny
Yes its changed !

I am pie

Stargate wrote: »

You mustn't have been carrying anything funny
Yes its changed !

Cuban rum and sunburn!

allthedoyles

Is this €1.7m worth of cocaine exagerrated ?

Should it not be something like €20,000 in Peruvian currency.

Is €1.7m not the street value in a European country.

purplecow1977

I am pie wrote: »

Cuban rum and sunburn!

Nah I saved that for Havana :P
You were right, I WASNT carrying anything funny. Wouldn't even dare!

heybaby

On the surface of it , this whole case looks bad for the two girls involved. The Spanish and Peruvian authorities clearly are very skeptical that the girls were taken hostage and managed to cross several borders interacting with police / border control personnel without raising the alarm. If all the evidence is pointing towards probable guilt arising albeit from either abject naievty or premeditated complicity then their legal counsel would be stupid not to encourage them to plead guilty which would bring a lesser sentence.

blade1

allthedoyles wrote: »

Is this €1.7m worth of cocaine exagerrated ?

Should it not be something like €20,000 in Peruvian currency.

Is €1.7m not the street value in a European country.

I think they are only going by the weight over there.
The 1.7m is being used by the papers over here.
That's what I gather anyway.

billybartley

My only reaction is this: if they are guilty, I hope they get a really long sentence, at least 10 years, in jail in Peru.

purplecow1977

What would a similar charge in Ireland get, out of interest? I know Ireland's judicial system are quite leniant....

Stheno

They have been sent to the Fatima de Virgen prison and told they will be there for up to three years pre-trial

It sounds pretty grim

Rightwing

purplecow1977 wrote: »

What would a similar charge in Ireland get, out of interest? I know Ireland's judicial system are quite leniant....

What size LED tv do you want paddy? shure we'll have you out in a few weeks

theSHU

purplecow1977 wrote: »

What would a similar charge in Ireland get, out of interest? I know Ireland's judicial system are quite leniant....

There is a minimum mandatory sentence of 10 years if you are in possession of c. €15,000 of drugs.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Amazingfun

Stheno wrote: »

They have been sent to the Fatima de Virgen prison and told they will be there for up to three years pre-trial

It sounds pretty grim

From comments:
"The two girls' stories are very tight, very consistent, with a lot of detail..." From what I have read their stories are anything but consistent, but then I only have the UK media's reports to go on. I suggest that Irish lawyer Madden's TV interview, broadcast worldwide, where he stated that the conditions the two women were suffering was "unacceptable" will have done more harm than good, even though he has since backtracked slightly. Perhaps that is why they are being sent to the rough, tough Fatima de Virgen prison rather than the new Ancon 2 that was mooted before his comments.
- CeeDee, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, 22/8/2013 19:15

Their poor families

bucketybuck

Amazingfun wrote: »

From comments:
"The two girls' stories are very tight, very consistent, with a lot of detail..." From what I have read their stories are anything but consistent, but then I only have the UK media's reports to go on. I suggest that Irish lawyer Madden's TV interview, broadcast worldwide, where he stated that the conditions the two women were suffering was "unacceptable" will have done more harm than good, even though he has since backtracked slightly. Perhaps that is why they are being sent to the rough, tough Fatima de Virgen prison rather than the new Ancon 2 that was mooted before his comments.
- CeeDee, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, 22/8/2013 19:15

Their poor families

My poor eyes.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Amazingfun

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I have to commend the men on this thread, I expected far more commentary on this, and much sooner, lol.

Anyways: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/michaella-wont-be-separated-from-melissa-in-jail-29520952.html

The Indo is saying they've been moved to Ancon 2, but I am sure that video at the Daily Mail shows then being driven into Virgen de Fatima prison.

purplecow1977

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

SPORTSbra though, they ugly! :P Irrespective of what's contained inside it!

dundalkfc10

theSHU wrote: »

There is a minimum mandatory sentence of 10 years if you are in possession of c. €15,000 of drugs.

Really? I highly doubt that

I know of fellas caught with much more than €15,000 and they never served half that, I know a lad caught with €10,000 worth and E tablets and he never even served time for it

purplecow1977

Amazingfun wrote: »

I have to commend the men on this thread, I expected far more commentary on this, and much sooner, lol.

Anyways: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/michaella-wont-be-separated-from-melissa-in-jail-29520952.html

The Indo is saying they've been moved to Ancon 2, but I am sure that video at the Daily Mail shows then being driven into Virgen de Fatima prison.

But the article says
"Michaella McCollum and Melissa Reid will be incarcerated in Ancon 2 prison while they await a trial date."
and

"They now face up to two years in the prison - also known as Fatima de Virgen in Ancon district, one hour north of the city centre."
so is that not contradictory or what am I not understanding??

Amazingfun

bucketybuck wrote: »

My poor eyes.

I have the Black background on and that colour looks good, forgot about people's White screens --sorry!

Stheno

purplecow1977 wrote: »

SPORTSbra though, they ugly! :P Irrespective of what's contained inside it!

Practical, long lasting, and boob minimising, good choice imo

Didn't realise that Fatima de Virgena is Ancona, if so that's not so bad, hadn't heard of it before being mentioned.

Amazingfun

Stheno wrote: »

Didn't realise that Fatima de Virgena is Ancona, if so that's not so bad, hadn't heard of it before being mentioned.

No, I am pretty sure they are different prisons, I think the Indo is confused.

Phoebas

purplecow1977 wrote: »

But the article says
"Michaella McCollum and Melissa Reid will be incarcerated in Ancon 2 prison while they await a trial date."
and

"They now face up to two years in the prison - also known as Fatima de Virgen in Ancon district, one hour north of the city centre."
so is that not contradictory or what am I not understanding??

The Mail seem to be just tagging new news on to the top of old news articles and not bothering to amend the bits that are wrong / out of date.

Montroseee

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Really? I highly doubt that

I know of fellas caught with much more than €15,000 and they never served half that, I know a lad caught with €10,000 worth and E tablets and he never even served time for it

Sorry, but this is simply not true.

gowley

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Really? I highly doubt that

I know of fellas caught with much more than €15,000 and they never served half that, I know a lad caught with €10,000 worth and E tablets and he never even served time for it

theres a minimum sentence for anyone convicted of dealing drugs worth over 13000 euro. its 10 years in ireland.

theSHU

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Really? I highly doubt that

I know of fellas caught with much more than €15,000 and they never served half that, I know a lad caught with €10,000 worth and E tablets and he never even served time for it

Correction, minimum sentence of 10 years for €13,000 worth of drugs

Minimum sentences
Generally, sentencing is left to the discretion of the judge. There are however, are a number of laws which take this discretion away from the judge and obliges the judge to impose at least a minimum sentence.

If, for example, you are found guilty of possession of drugs with a value greater than €13,000 under Section 15A of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 , Section 27 of the Act as amended by Section 33 of the Criminal Justice Act 2007 (pdf) provides for a minimum sentence of 10 years imprisonment.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_trial/types_of_sentences.html

Rightwing

gowley wrote: »

theres a minimum sentence for anyone convicted of dealing drugs worth over 13000 euro. its 10 years in ireland.

And probably out after an hour to make way for the lad who didn't pay his tv license. :rolleyes:

Amazingfun

The Indo is simply wrong. If you look again at the pictures and the video of them being driven to prison, you can clearly see the name of the prison, and a whole bunch of houses behind it.

Ancon 2 is in the desert far north of Lima, this prison is still in the city, and by the sounds of it, has worse conditions than Santa Maria.

Only good thing is they are still together. And apparently they have admitted now they lied about not knowing it was drugs in their cases.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2400232/The-Peru-Two-told-spend-years-notorious-Fatima-Virgen-prison-bullying-prostitution-rife.html

Amazingfun

Article from last week:

The Santa Monica women’s prison is relatively mild compared to other women’s prisons around Lima; the maximum security prison in Chorrillos and the Virgen the Fatima Prison inside the city and the women’s prison in Ancon just to the north of Lima. In Oct 2012 the redistribution of women inside the three prisons resulted in mixing maximum and minimum security inmates. A total of 750 women were transferred unannounced — 107 of them were foreigners. According to a 28-year-old Australian national, the transfers occurred brutally in the middle of the night and many personal belongings were left behind.

Inside the Santa Monica prison, inmates pay for their own food, clothes, and — if they can afford it — a living space. The prison is 70% overcrowded and the conditions of the cells are deplorable, with many women sleeping on filthy floors.

But comfort can be bought.

Guards are paid so little they often work several jobs on the side. “It makes them vulnerable for bribes,” says Soberon.

Poor inmates hustle for money in different ways — some by cooking or selling handicrafts, others by serving as a llamadora or caller on visiting days. Visitors rely on these callers to bring them to their loved one once they enter the visitors’ courtyard. But the most well-behaved and highly-educated prisoners work inside the prison library, and try to keep to themselves. Some of them claim they were set up and wrongly convicted of serious crimes such as murder.

Peru has been under foreign pressure to crack down on drugs, and after Peru’s 2003 drug law reform, penalties against offences such as those Reid and McCollum-Connolly are accused of have gone up. “Judges who punish harshly are applauded in Peru,” says Ricardo Soberon, who heads the centre of drug and human rights investigations in Peru.

The two girls will likely be discriminated against for their relative wealth compared to Peruvian inmates and guards. Soberon adds that the girls need to be careful not to be exploited. “It is common for Peruvian lawyers to ask families for a lot of money promising a lesser sentence. But they know this is not going to happen.”

http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/reality-sets-in-for-accused-in-peru-239981.html