Peru drug smuggling case - READ OP BEFORE POSTING

MonaPizza

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Perfect? How come thousands of of stranglers down through the years have favoured a length of rope, or wire, or cloth rather than the victim's hair?
The hair would have to probably be at least down to her waist, you'd have to request that she gather it all together in one long rope to one side so that you could then wrap her neck.

jack presley

Are the days of using your hands for choking someone gone now?

MonaPizza

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Actually the non-jurybound inquisitorial trial system rooted in French Penal Theory has proven far more fair and successful than the jury-bound adversarial system rooted in English Common Law.

redtapestyl

I don't think Michaella is too worried, with the size of the bun on her head she could be concealing an m16 for all we know.

chopper6

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

To strangle somebody? Get real...it'll come out in handfulls....now long hair *is* a great means of grabbing somebody and swinging them round for a while but absolutely not for strangling somebody.

I am pie

Plead guilty, use the 2 years to learn Spanish, they will need it inside and will at least come back with something useful.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I wonder what kind of travel restrictions they'll face in the future with a drug trafficking conviction. The USA I imagine will be closed to them for good.

chopper6

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I wonder what kind of travel restrictions they'll face in the future with a drug trafficking conviction. The USA I imagine will be closed to them for good.

I understand the passport will have something like "convicted of drug exporting" and the date...anywhere that requires an entry visa...usa,australia,thailand,turkey etc will simply refuse them leave to land and they'll be on the next plane home.

I am pie

chopper6 wrote: »

I understand the passport will have something like "convicted of drug exporting" and the date...anywhere that requires an entry visa...usa,australia,thailand,turkey etc will simply refuse them leave to land and they'll be on the next plane home.

Significantly less of an inconvenience than an extra 8 to 10 stretch inside the Lima Hilton.

They are free to move around the EU at least.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

chopper6

I am pie wrote: »

Significantly less of an inconvenience than an extra 8 to 10 stretch inside the Lima Hilton.

They are free to move around the EU at least.

That's assuming they survive in a peruvian prison....they don't look to me like they have a Doing Time Disposition.

I am pie

chopper6 wrote: »

That's assuming they survive in a peruvian prison....they don't look to me like they have a Doing Time Disposition.

I doubt they'll die. That would be a serious PR disaster for the Peruvians. I'd say they are in the more severe prison now to put the fear into them. If they plead guilty and give up a name or two they'll go into a grim but less life threatening prison or wing, at a guess. At I hope so for their sakes. I genuinely would like the best outcome for the eejits, and for that is 2 years aided by a bit of co-operation.

Timothy Bryce

redtapestyl wrote: »

I don't think Michaella is too worried, with the size of the bun on her head she could be concealing an m16 for all we know.

Nice gag

Amazingfun

Re: Michaela's hair cutting: (FYI: putting tips into the thread ought to be accompanied by a link to where you got the info in the first place)

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/michaella-connolly-warned-could-choked-2215345

By Jilly Beattie Comments
Coke bust Michaella's fake hair strangle threats

24 Aug 2013 11:40
Coke mule suspect warned she must cut her extensions

redtapestyl

Amazingfun wrote: »

Re: Michaela's hair cutting: (FYI: putting tips into the thread ought to be accompanied by a link to where you got the info in the first place)

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/michaella-connolly-warned-could-choked-2215345

just reading that article now, they may be in for a lot more trouble than they realised

Irish Mirror wrote:

The jail is notorious. Inmates are preyed on by female sexual predators, bullied and battered on a regular basis.

Capacity in the jail is believed to be running at almost 200% and inmates are given no opportunity for privacy.

Ill health is rife, food and clean water are in short supply and must be bought, and the sleeping and sanitary conditions are appalling.

Medical and dental services are non-existent, infectious diseases such as TB are common due to the mass overcrowding. And HIV rates are high, partly through drug use.

Even if Michaella is able to get enough money to buy food, water and toiletries, her property may be stolen.

Amazingfun

I thought the prisons in Peru were some of the worst , until I saw this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2405792/Inside-secretive-prison-pits-El-Salvadors-notorious-gangs-crammed-like-livestock.html

Sulla Felix

I am pie wrote: »

I doubt they'll die. That would be a serious PR disaster for the Peruvians. I'd say they are in the more severe prison now to put the fear into them. If they plead guilty and give up a name or two they'll go into a grim but less life threatening prison or wing, at a guess. At I hope so for their sakes. I genuinely would like the best outcome for the eejits, and for that is 2 years aided by a bit of co-operation.

Spanish woman convicted on similar charges commited suicide while in the same prison they'll likely end up in. It's really not a nice place.

lukesmom

Amazingfun wrote: »

Re: Michaela's hair cutting: (FYI: putting tips into the thread ought to be accompanied by a link to where you got the info in the first place)

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/michaella-connolly-warned-could-choked-2215345

Yeah I gave the tip but don't know how to post a link from iPhone app

Arnold Layne

"Ill health is rife, food and clean water are in short supply and must be bought, and the sleeping and sanitary conditions are appalling.

Medical and dental services are non-existent, infectious diseases such as TB are common due to the mass overcrowding. "

Michaela should get used to this if she ever comes to Ireland

allthedoyles

Arnold Layne wrote: »

"Ill health is rife, food and clean water are in short supply and must be bought, and the sleeping and sanitary conditions are appalling.

Medical and dental services are non-existent, infectious diseases such as TB are common due to the mass overcrowding. "

Michaela should get used to this if she ever comes to Ireland

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and so is your post

To describe a prison in Peru as having anything in common with this country is just wrong .

If anyone gloats on the misery that these girls will go through , they need their head examined .

Elbaston

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I wonder what kind of travel restrictions they'll face in the future with a drug trafficking conviction. The USA I imagine will be closed to them for good.

lol - we still have the old 'if you get a record you wont be able to go to america' thing ingrained in us.

I know thats why I kept quiet in my teens.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Elbaston wrote: »

lol - we still have the old 'if you get a record you wont be able to go to america' thing ingrained in us.

I know thats why I kept quiet in my teens.

Minor offences aside, something as serious as a Drug Trafficking conviction will restrict your travel options in the future. That's a reality

Phoebas

Elbaston wrote: »

lol - we still have the old 'if you get a record you wont be able to go to america' thing ingrained in us.

I know thats why I kept quiet in my teens.

You can still go to the US after committing a wide range of offences. They draw the line at crimes involving 'moral turpitude'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

Allyall

New law (Expected to come) coming into affect within 10 days.

New law to be signed into Peruvian law, that 'helps' foreigners. To me, it doesn't seem to change anything. Expected to be signed in within 15 days (a week ago).

If you are serving less than 7 years, and have already served a third, then you can be released early.
Isn't that what they are already doing 'unofficially'?

As for this.. :mad::(
Is this true?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/334658/Peru-drug-mules-brag-about-big-wonga

If not....... Jaysus, i don't know where to start.

If it is, how come no paper has picked up on it before?

hardCopy

Allyall wrote: »

New law (Expected to come) coming into affect within 10 days.

New law to be signed into Peruvian law, that 'helps' foreigners. To me, it doesn't seem to change anything. Expected to be signed in within 15 days (a week ago).

If you are serving less than 7 years, and have already served a third, then you can be released early.
Isn't that what they are already doing 'unofficially'?

As for this.. :mad::(
Is this true?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/334658/Peru-drug-mules-brag-about-big-wonga

If not....... Jaysus, i don't know where to start.

If it is, how come no paper has picked up on it before?

Seems odd that they don't have a screengrab

Again, feel so damn sorry for the parents and families. The heartbreak they have put their own through.

Just reading that Star report where Melissa's dad says he isnt 100% sure about their story. My heart goes out to him, and Michealla's parents.

if that report is true, that would almost be a final nail in the coffin so to speak, blowing the claims they had no phone etc , out of the water.

Allyall

Jake1 wrote: »

Again, feel so damn sorry for the parents and families. The heartbreak they have put their own through.

Just reading that Star report where Melissa's dad says he isnt 100% sure about their story. My heart goes out to him, and Michealla's parents.

if that report is true, that would almost be a final nail in the coffin so to speak, blowing the claims they had no phone etc , out of the water.

Yeah, that part is true. Regardless of whether or not he believes his daughters story, i'd say he acknowledges that a guilty plea is probably better for them.

The part i find unbelievable is that she was boasting about making money quickly, and 'a day to go'.

Fck sake. If that is not true, i'd sue them for blatantly lying, without even trying to be convincing.

Allyall

apparently it is partially true. Before she left Scotland.

Although she didn't say the actual words "big Wonga".

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/424703/Peru-girl-Melissa-s-cryptic-online-posts-fuel-drug-mystery

The photo of the two, with Michaella smiling.
Makes you think, even though it could be a nervous reaction.

It kinda looks like she believes a smile will get her out of anything... It definitely doesn't look like a nervous smile.

BUT.
The truth is that, that is when she was being addressed, and was most likely being polite.

Elbaston

Allyall wrote: »

apparently it is partially true. Before she left Scotland.

So whoever posted on the Star, may want to consider taking it down

Although she didn't say the actual words "big Wonga".

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/424703/Peru-girl-Melissa-s-cryptic-online-posts-fuel-drug-mystery

The photo of the two, with Michaella smiling.
Makes you think, even though it could be a nervous reaction.

It kinda looks like she believes a smile will get her out of anything... It definitely doesn't look like a nervous smile.

BUT.
The truth is that, that is when she was being addressed, and was most likely being polite.

F***ing journalists.
Useless f***ers.
Investigate the last corrupt government if you have the balls, and then i may have respect.

I couldn't give a toss about 1direction, or the average drug dealer in Dublin City Centre, or that a British tourist was told not to head to Labanon etc..

Oh God how I tire of 1Dimension.

Amazingfun

'I don't believe a word they say': Drugs mule prosecutor condemns British girls... (but prison letter reveals 20-year-old is now worried about how she looks on TV)
Lawyer brands women accused of attempting to smuggle cocaine as liars
Dr Juan Mendoza Abarca said their excuses were 'very well practised'
He said the two women had no proof to back up their claims

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408164/I-dont-believe-word-say-Drugs-mule-prosecutor-condemns-British-girls---prison-letter-reveals-20-year-old-worried-looks-TV.html#ixzz2dbj0dOzT
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Amazingfun

Dr Juan Mendoza Abarca, head of the state attorney's office anti-drugs unit, is interviewed by reporter Simon Murphy
He added: ‘It’s very obvious that they were trained in what to say if they were caught. They were prepared in every sense. They were told to take pictures of themselves having a good time, to try to act as normal as possible. All of the excuses were very well practised.’

This comes as The Mail on Sunday has uncovered fresh information about the women’s capture at Lima airport:

The cocaine was concealed inside porridge and jelly packets with a lining of loose pepper on the inside to mask the smell of drugs;
The cocaine was cut with bicarbonate of soda and starch;
The women were carrying cash, including €50, £35 of local currency and $50;
They also had a digital camera and two BlackBerry phones with sim cards, which are currently being investigated

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408164/I-dont-believe-word-say-Drugs-mule-prosecutor-condemns-British-girls---prison-letter-reveals-20-year-old-worried-looks-TV.html#ixzz2dbl9lLVU
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


So: the Coke was already cut! Did they get ripped off to add insult to injury?

Amazingfun

Another theory out the window (according to the Prosecutor):

Dr Mendoza Abarca also ruled out the possibility that the women were sacrificed to let a bigger load of drugs though, explaining that once the girls had been caught all flights were put on high alert.
He added that CCTV showing the girls’ movements just before they went to the airport ‘showed nobody was holding a gun to their head’.
‘No one was seen to force them to do anything,’ he said. ‘They may have been used to carry drugs but they may also have been offered compensation for it because they were just freely walking around.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408164/I-dont-believe-word-say-Drugs-mule-prosecutor-condemns-British-girls---prison-letter-reveals-20-year-old-worried-looks-TV.html#ixzz2dbltxQXp
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

blade1

Amazingfun wrote: »

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408164/I-dont-believe-word-say-Drugs-mule-prosecutor-condemns-British-girls---prison-letter-reveals-20-year-old-worried-looks-TV.html#ixzz2dbj0dOzT
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Did anyone actually believe them in the first place?

Boombastic

Amazingfun wrote: »

...............


So: the Coke was already cut! Did they get ripped off to add insult to injury?

:D:D

This story just gets madder!!


Were they that stupid they went to Peru and tried to smuggle cut coke or were they set up royally??

The plot thickens

fishy fishy

Amazingfun wrote: »

Re: Michaela's hair cutting: (FYI: putting tips into the thread ought to be accompanied by a link to where you got the info in the first place)

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/michaella-connolly-warned-could-choked-2215345

her lawyer was in the paper yesterday - they are still segregated from the other prisoners.

aidan24326

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Minor offences aside, something as serious as a Drug Trafficking conviction will restrict your travel options in the future. That's a reality

Future travel restrictions are surely the least of their worries right now.

chopper6

aidan24326 wrote: »

Future travel restrictions are surely the least of their worries right now.

Yes...avoiding beatings will probably keep them occupied for a while.

MonaPizza

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Whether it is fair or not is an irrelevance. The fact is that you likely will be thrown in jail, absent clear CCTV footage of the planting of the drugs.

The burden of proof is on the defendent, given that they've been caught in possession of the drugs. It is up to the defendent to prove beyind a reasonable doubt that the drugs were planted (or they were coerced etc), not the prosecution to prove they were not. If that were not the case, every drug smuggler would use that story to get them off the hook

So given that that the burden of proof is on you, and that the ramifications of you not proving it are so huge, how would you plead?

I thought the burden of proof was always on the prosecution.

Menas

MonaPizza wrote: »

I thought the burden of proof was always on the prosecution.

The police caught the two girls at the check in desk with 11kg of coke in their bags. That will not be too challenging to prove.

The girls have a story of how they were coerced in to doing this and thus are not responsible for the coke been in their bags and not responsible for the crime they have been accused of. Thus the girls will have to prove this.

chopper6

MonaPizza wrote: »

I thought the burden of proof was always on the prosecution.

In a case where the evidence is slightly more than circumstantial then the defendents must prove they're not guilty.


In this case i reckon they havn't a prayer.

MonaPizza

chopper6 wrote: »

As the judge said "Why didn't they ask for help at Lima airport?"


They are guilty and they are liars.

Did it ever occur to you that they might have been threatened. They might have been told that in Peru, if you go up to a cop and tell him you have drugs on you and are being forced to traffic them it doesn't matter. You will go to jail for years.

You seem very adamant that you know everything about this affair. Were you there with the girls every step of the way? Do you know that they weren't coerced? IF you know this as you are claiming then could you present us with your evidence please?

MonaPizza

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

They are not. they were caught in possession of 11kg of cocaine. They are guilty until they prove their innocence

Now you're just making it up as you go along. You want them to hang no matter what set of circumstances transpired. And you're even redefining legal norms and procedures to satisfy your bloodlust. You're not interested in the circumstances surrounding the case and you're not interested in facts. You just want someone to swing because it sounds to me like you're a sadist.

Chris Dolmeth

MonaPizza wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that they might have been threatened. They might have been told that in Peru, if you go up to a cop and tell him you have drugs on you and are being forced to traffic them it doesn't matter. You will go to jail for years.

I think I'd take my chances that perhaps the dealer who is forcing you (with the threat of violence/death) to mule for him might not be completely truthful with you when it comes to the cops.

chopper6

MonaPizza wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that they might have been threatened. They might have been told that in Peru, if you go up to a cop and tell him you have drugs on you and are being forced to traffic them it doesn't matter. You will go to jail for years.

You seem very adamant that you know everything about this affair. Were you there with the girls every step of the way? Do you know that they weren't coerced? IF you know this as you are claiming then could you present us with your evidence please?

He said their excuses were ‘very well practised’, they had been coached in what to say and their ‘demeanour did not suggest that they had been threatened’.


The lawyer, who led the investigation for the first 15 days, said that Melissa Reid and Michaella McCollum Connolly, both 20, had no proof to back up any of their claims.



Dr Mendoza Abarca said: ‘They don’t even have one element of proof. Unfortunately, their stories are not believable – their stories are incredible. They staged this whole thing from the beginning because they knew it was possible they would get caught and if they did get caught they had the excuses really well planned.


‘The problem is that they received the drugs, they packed the drugs in their bags and they went to the airport. But had they been given the bags packed already – which is what usually happens – then it’s another story. When somebody is threatened, you can tell. I have spoken to the girls and their demeanour did not suggest that they had been threatened because of the way they acted.’



‘It’s very obvious that they were trained in what to say if they were caught. They were prepared in every sense. They were told to take pictures of themselves having a good time, to try to act as normal as possible. All of the excuses were very well practised.’
He added: ‘When they were first questioned, their demeanour was very flat and they were just repeating their story. Usually when a mule is caught they come out with lots of different stories and explanations – they have lots of detail. These girls’ stories were just too superficial.


‘They could have come forward before. They had the opportunities to. The authorities in this country and their country would have done everything that was necessary to protect their families and to make sure nothing happened to them.


‘If that had happened, they actually would have had the opportunity to catch the real people involved because they would have done whatever was necessary to catch the real bosses. But they didn’t do that. They waited to be caught

.

Grandpa Hassan

MonaPizza wrote: »

I thought the burden of proof was always on the prosecution.

Not in this case. The girls have to prove they were coerced. Whether or not they were co-erced is secondary to the fact that they are going to have to come up with proof. It is looking increasingly like that will be pretty much impossible. The prosecution have to prove nothing.....the girls were caught red handed

Grayson

MonaPizza wrote: »

I thought the burden of proof was always on the prosecution.

The crime is smuggling drugs. They were caught in possession with them. They will be sentenced guilty unless they can prove that they were coerced. That is why the burden of proof is on them.

If the police had to prove in every single case that the person wasn't coerced then everyone from bankers to murderers would use it as an excuse and then get off the charge when the cops couldn't prove they weren't.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Grayson wrote: »

The crime is smuggling drugs. They were caught in possession with them. They will be sentenced guilty unless they can prove that they were coerced. That is why the burden of proof is on them.

If the police had to prove in every single case that the person wasn't coerced then everyone from bankers to murderers would use it as an excuse and then get off the charge when the cops couldn't prove they weren't.

Pretty sure a prosecution needs to prove guilt in relation to murder in most western courts

aidan24326

Are they still going ahead with a plea of not guilty? If so, they must be mad as they will almost certainly be convicted and receive a much harsher sentence. 2 years in a hellhole prison would be survivable if you can tough it out but 10+ would destroy you.

Grayson

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Pretty sure a prosecution needs to prove guilt in relation to murder in most western courts

Yep. They do. But if your caught with a bloodied knife and stabbing the victim plus you have a motive of financial gain, you can't just get away with saying "someone made me do it". At that point it's up to the defendant to provide some shred of evidence that it happened. It's not up to the police to assume that you didn't actually do it. If the defendant provides some evidence, the police should follow it up but if it goes no-where they shouldn't assume that the guy is innocent and drop charges should they? Otherwise everyone would be using that story to get off every crime.

The girls have not provided one shred of evidence. They have a story but they haven't been able to provide any evidence to show that they were coerced. All they have is a story that doesn't hold up.



Of course you shouldn't believe anything I just typed. There's two Colombian drug lords here in my sitting room. They said they'd kill me and my family if I didn't type this. You believe me, don't you?