Peru drug smuggling case - READ OP BEFORE POSTING

collidgedosser

homemadecider wrote: »

Then what is your vested interest in the case?

whats yours and the other posters on the thread?

homemadecider

I don't have a vested interest. I'm not coming on here defending criminals and drug mules.

Do you want to answer my question now?

prizefighter

collidgedosser wrote: »

Actually in essence its the drug lord, as they are the ones who commision the operation, finance it , buy the drugs and organise all aspects, how could you ever come to the conclusion its a lowly mule! The reality in my eyes of her was that she was no angel! but yes naive. I think its obvious that her family would be aware of the societies outlook on drugs, however you and the other posters here might also be aware of socities outlook on nasty hurtful unnecessary comments also.
All I was ever saying on this thread was about the comments!

Well actually a large portion of your ranting has been about 'getting her home safe'. This attitude is really grating to people, what makes her such a special case that she should get brought back to Ireland and put on the tax payers dime?
If the reasoning is based on a foreign language and no visitors well tough ****, you knowingly commit a crime in a foreign land expect to end up in jail in that foreign land. Its pretty simple.
There's no extenuating circumstances here bar the overwhelming ideas of entitlement being put across by yourself and the girls' families. They are self confessed criminals and sadly for the families will be treated as such.

bucketybuck

collidgedosser wrote: »

Had they been older I may feel less sympathy.

One year older? Five years older? Ten? Twenty?

Where does the Collidgedosser Age/sympathy scale fit into the justice system thats what we all want to know? Is there a metric of age against crime that you use or is it just your gut instinct?

collidgedosser wrote: »

The age more so and i believe age is one of the biggest factors in dispensing leniency everywhere

Jon Venables was just a kid when he murdered a toddler, so I guess you have sympathy for him, yeah?

collidgedosser wrote: »

Those girls got caught doing something that is very illegal but in the end of the day nobody is dead, nobody was raped, nobody was robbed of a massive sum of money.

Thats right, drug trafficking never results in any death, rape, or the loss of money now does it?

Dreary me. :rolleyes:

weldoninhio

They deserve everything the Peruvian system gives them. The same as any criminal in any country deserves the punishment meted out to them by the justice system in the jurisdiction they are caught.

I personally hope they get the maximum sentence possible.

If they had come out from the onset and held their hands up and cooperated i think they should have been treated more leniently, but their constantly changing story and cynical "plead guilty to get a lesser sentence" is a slap in the face of the Peruvian legal system.

The fundraising is a joke, both pages talk about getting them home where they belong. They belong in prison in Peru. Caught red-handed, do the crime, do the time, 19 or 90. Makes no difference.

collidgedosser

bucketybuck wrote: »

One year older? Five years older? Ten? Twenty?

Where does the Collidgedosser Age/sympathy scale fit into the justice system thats what we all want to know? Is there a metric of age against crime that you use or is it just your gut instinct?



Jon Venables was just a kid when he murdered a toddler, so I guess you have sympathy for him, yeah?




Thats right, drug trafficking never results in any death, rape, or the loss of money now does it?

Dreary me. :rolleyes:

so did they rape rob or steal,? No! I was talking about their crimes and not the problem of drugs and do think i did recognise that drugs do cause societal damage in at least two posts previously if you cared to read

collidgedosser

bucketybuck wrote: »

One year older? Five years older? Ten? Twenty?

Where does the Collidgedosser Age/sympathy scale fit into the justice system thats what we all want to know? Is there a metric of age against crime that you use or is it just your gut instinct?



Jon Venables was just a kid when he murdered a toddler, so I guess you have sympathy for him, yeah?




Thats right, drug trafficking never results in any death, rape, or the loss of money now does it?

Dreary me. :rolleyes:

I believe that judges work solely on their gut instincts in this country when it comes to sentencing within a very wide framework. And actually sometimes or actually a lot of times they throw the framework out the window especially in drug cases such as the mandatory 10 yr sentence for a seizure worth over €12,700 which is regularily disregarded if the judge feels that this is a special case and how does he feel its a special case?

If your so concerned about this maybe you should be making these points to someone in a more authoritive position than a boards.ie member with 70 posts because believe it or not that is actually how things work

weldoninhio

collidgedosser wrote: »

I believe that judges work solely on their gut instincts in this country when it comes to sentencing within a very wide framework. And actually sometimes or actually a lot of times they throw the framework out the window especially in drug cases such as the mandatory 10 yr sentence for a seizure worth over €12,700 which is regularily disregarded if the judge feels that this is a special case and how does he feel its a special case?

If your so concerned about this maybe you should be making these points to someone in a more authoritive position than a boards.ie member with 70 posts because believe it or not that is actually how things work

So you don't believe there shouldn't be "special cases" for over E12,700 in Ireland and they should serve the mandatory 10 years, but you want the 2 idiots who tried to smuggle multiples of E12,700 out of a South American country "home"??

They are getting exactly what they deserve.

collidgedosser

If you bothered to read what I was saying in context of the post I quoted You would see that I was making the point that was sentencing is made on a judges gut feeling of an individual, nothing more nothing less so chill the fock out! I never made any suggestions about sentencing and I never ever once on this said anything near that I think there should be a special exemption made for, I just said I wish they were home! Ppl have been putting words in my mouth and making assumptions about my views all evening. Relax man chill! Read what i say carefully

weldoninhio wrote: »

So you don't believe there shouldn't be "special cases" for over E12,700 in Ireland and they should serve the mandatory 10 years, but you want the 2 idiots who tried to smuggle multiples of E12,700 out of a South American country "home"??

They are getting exactly what they deserve.

end of the road

JustAThought wrote: »

Instead of being crucified by taxes and stealth taxes, adding up to almost two weeks wages out of every 4 weeks worked, I as an Irish tax payer , do not want to pay More taxes and costs for their prison upkeep, security and freeloading in Ireland.

well tough, its your job, and if the irish girl is sent back here to serve her sentence you will pay.

JustAThought wrote: »

Like everything else in this country , it seems that the attitude is you can do and take or have what you want, and someone else will pick up the tab for you.

thats because that is the way it is, just have to get on with it

JustAThought wrote: »

I'd Much rather my taxes went to provide heat and food for the elderly, suicide support, hospice care for the dying, home care for the disabled, mental health support , proper wages for firemen who risk death daily to rescue people and are paid a pittance

your taxes are going toards these things, sure more should go toards it but sadly thats not going to happen.

JustAThought wrote: »

to pay for cushy lodgings, education, menu choices for meals & massive civil service salaries for Irish prison gaurds - not to mention the social welfare payments to them as prisoners in the Irish system.

i take it you have been in prison then? cushy lodgings? been reading to much of those horid vermin rags, edcuation? jesus how terrable that prisoners should receive education that actually might benefit some upon their release, oh and god menue choices, begorra begosh shur thats such an issue, and jesus if that wasn't the worst of it we pay a decent wage to those who are looking after criminals some of them who are extremely dangerous, jesus i mean we should never do such a thing.

JustAThought wrote: »

Why should I pay for that, for them?

because your job is to pay tax and pay you will and it will go toards what your told it will go toards.

JustAThought wrote: »

It's about time ALL that stopped .

not at all.

JustAThought wrote: »

No entitlements. Do the time when convicted, and do it in Peru.

full entitlements, do the time in ireland at your expence

collidgedosser

Sorry could you find a quote for me on that and then I will immediately answer all questions you have

homemadecider wrote: »

I don't have a vested interest. I'm not coming on here defending criminals and drug mules.

Do you want to answer my question now?

weldoninhio

So what has the Irish legal system or an Irish judges "gut feeling" got to do with this case? It has no relevance here, except to flag up that the 2 idiots who tried to smuggle a huge amount of illegal drugs internationally from South America might get off easier here.

They were caught in Peru, they should feel the full force of the Peruvian Justice System, serve their sentences in its entirety in Peru and then they can return to Ireland/Scotland. I'd be disgusted if 1c of my taxes went towards putting one of those stupid girls up in an Irish prison, for a crime they committed in Peru. As would many others.

Stheno

weldoninhio wrote: »

So what has the Irish legal system or an Irish judges "gut feeling" got to do with this case? It has no relevance here, except to flag up that the 2 idiots who tried to smuggle a huge amount of illegal drugs internationally from South America might get off easier here.

They were caught in Peru, they should feel the full force of the Peruvian Justice System, serve their sentences in its entirety in Peru and then they can return to Ireland/Scotland. I'd be disgusted if 1c of my taxes went towards putting one of those stupid girls up in an Irish prison, for a crime they committed in Peru. As would many others.

And there are some offences here where a mandatory sentence is imposed and a judges gut feeling has nothing to do with it.

bucketybuck

collidgedosser wrote: »

I believe that judges work solely on their gut instincts in this country when it comes to sentencing within a very wide framework. And actually sometimes or actually a lot of times they throw the framework out the window especially in drug cases such as the mandatory 10 yr sentence for a seizure worth over €12,700 which is regularily disregarded if the judge feels that this is a special case and how does he feel its a special case?

If your so concerned about this maybe you should be making these points to someone in a more authoritive position than a boards.ie member with 70 posts because believe it or not that is actually how things work

This is standard internet waffling. In your first paragraph you respond to something nobody has said, then in your second you proclaim that if I am so concerned about this thing that I never mentioned at all then I should speak to somebody else about it.

I'm afraid you appear to have typed yourself in knots collidgedosser.

NTMK

collidgedosser wrote: »

I believe that judges work solely on their gut instincts in this country when it comes to sentencing within a very wide framework. And actually sometimes or actually a lot of times they throw the framework out the window especially in drug cases such as the mandatory 10 yr sentence for a seizure worth over €12,700 which is regularily disregarded if the judge feels that this is a special case and how does he feel its a special case?

These special cases are usually where the judge deems that the smuggler did it out of pure necessity as peruvian smugglers usually come from the slums and only do it to feed their families/get out of the slums. Foreigners almost never get this and the case with the 2 girls is nothing special, theyve probalby caught another 10-12 smugglers going by how many they catch every year

Penny Dreadful

collidgedosser wrote: »

I know full well she is going to serve time but i wouldnt wish it on any young Irish kid for a crime like carrying drugs, that said Im aware drugs cause damage and we have to stop the trafficking, (mule is hardly the person truly responsible for the importation). Had they been older I may feel less sympathy.
Im not trying to be an internet dictator and stop free speech or constructive dialogue but the quality of the posts at the end of the thread that i saw today were the lowest of the low, they were sniggering at the fundraiser, laughing at the amount raised, and copying nasty comments from the fundraiser pages left by rotten trolls. Its funny you say that im removed from reality when I have spent an entire evening explaining to people that there comments in cyberworld have an effect on real live people in reality!

What the nationality has to do with it I still don't fully understand. In some ways the fact that she is Irish and grew up with a decent education system, health care system, social services, etc (no matter what people say when compared to many other parts of the world we're doing well on that front), means she should have had even more cop on to not do something like that.

Menas

collidgedosser wrote: »

Just to be clear I am no relation to the McCollums to end any speculation in case some clown of a journalist writes an article, which is very very possible with those assholes

But why did you mention her brothers in your first post? They have not been mentioned before.
It would have been more logical had you mentioned Melissa or Michealla's parents rather than just Michealla's brothers. This is why I reckon you are a friend of theirs.

And if you feel so strongly about the impact of comments on the internet about criminals that may hurt the family then why are you not posting on other threads?
For example there was lots of nasty stuff said about Billy Isaac and Siobhan Ginty that their families would not be happy with, but not a word from you on that thread.

collidgedosser

weldoninhio wrote: »

So what has the Irish legal system or an Irish judges "gut feeling" got to do with this case? It has no relevance here, except to flag up that the 2 idiots who tried to smuggle a huge amount of illegal drugs internationally from South America might get off easier here.

They were caught in Peru, they should feel the full force of the Peruvian Justice System, serve their sentences in its entirety in Peru and then they can return to Ireland/Scotland. I'd be disgusted if 1c of my taxes went towards putting one of those stupid girls up in an Irish prison, for a crime they committed in Peru. As would many others.

Again I refer you to my previous post where I told you to read my comments in context of the post I was replying to where somebody had asked how would I decide on sentencing and would i do it "by gut feeling". Then in response I pointed out that gut feeling was the modus operandi for our judicial system. Is that clear enough for you now or would you like me to explain it a third time?

Penny Dreadful

collidgedosser wrote: »

To be honest with you those close by in my own country would be more of a concern than those outside it. Those girls got caught doing something that is very illegal but in the end of the day nobody is dead, nobody was raped, nobody was robbed of a massive sum of money. Theyre going to spend longer in jail for that than people do in ireland for manslaughter and theyre going to do it locked up with out visitors and will be reliant on a priest for support. They will and already have paid very dearly for what they have done , and they stood to gain so little for taking that risk.
Pick away all you like looking for holes in my logic, im sure theyre there, all I know is I would like to see her home soon because her being away is a big sentence on her family aswell.
Abou that FB post are you saying Michaella wrote that? On her wall or someone elses ? Did you see that yourself or did someone tell you?

People die after taking drugs. If someone had died thanks to the drugs these two brought back with them wouldn't that be a form of manslaughter?
People kill, rape and rob to get their hands on money to fund their drug habit, to continue to cycle of fear and intimidation drug gangs have in certain areas, these two would have/were playing their part in perpetuating this cycle by smuggling drugs.

collidgedosser

bucketybuck wrote: »

One year older? Five years older? Ten? Twenty?

Where does the Collidgedosser Age/sympathy scale fit into the justice system thats what we all want to know? Is there a metric of age against crime that you use or is it just your gut instinct?



Jon Venables was just a kid when he murdered a toddler, so I guess you have sympathy for him, yeah?




Thats right, drug trafficking never results in any death, rape, or the loss of money now does it?

Dreary me. :rolleyes:

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is standard internet waffling. In your first paragraph you respond to something nobody has said, then in your second you proclaim that if I am so concerned about this thing that I never mentioned at all then I should speak to somebody else about it.

I'm afraid you appear to have typed yourself in knots collidgedosser.

Ok seen as your having difficulty understanding or remembering what you said " Is there a metric of age against crime that you use or is it just your gut instinct?"
And in response I pointed out that gut feeling was the norm for judges in Ireland.

And why are you putting my name in bold txt Are you desperate for attention or something

collidgedosser

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

People die after taking drugs. If someone had died thanks to the drugs these two brought back with them wouldn't that be a form of manslaughter?
People kill, rape and rob to get their hands on money to fund their drug habit, to continue to cycle of fear and intimidation drug gangs have in certain areas, these two would have/were playing their part in perpetuating this cycle by smuggling drugs.

By your logic we need to arrest every publican, newsagents and car salesmen in this country and charge them with manslaughter, your argument or question is rediculous! Any one of drink cigarettes or cars kill more people that cocaine does in Ireland.

Penny Dreadful

collidgedosser wrote: »

By your logic we need to arrest every publican, newsagents and car salesmen in this country and charge them with manslaughter, your argument or question is rediculous! Any one of drink cigarettes or cars kill more people that cocaine does in Ireland.

Alcohol and cigarettes do a lot of harm I'm not denying that. They are however, legally available products so people do not have to engage in criminal activities to obtain them.

These girls got involved with a criminal(s) to carry out an illegal criminal operation i.e. smuggle class A drugs from one country to another. They did this knowingly, of their own volition as adults who had received a full education and were fully capable of working for a living.
They had no reason, no excuse, no cause to turn to smuggling illegal drugs in order to put food on the table.
They tried to pull a fast one, the consequences of which had they suceeded would have most likely caused great harm to many other people, they got caught and now they have to pay the price.
They are adults, they can vote, get married, get divorced, buy a house, consent to operations,etc etc. With all of those rights comes responsibility. They failed to uphold this responsibility and now they must be tried as the adults they are.

jaykay74

collidgedosser wrote: »

By your logic we need to arrest every publican, newsagents and car salesmen in this country and charge them with manslaughter, your argument or question is rediculous! Any one of drink cigarettes or cars kill more people that cocaine does in Ireland.

There are legal activities that can lead to death
There are illegal activities that can lead to death.

Its not that hard to fathom surely why these girls are in a different bracket to a publican.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

jaykay74 wrote: »

There are legal activities that can lead to death
There are illegal activities that can lead to death.

Its not that hard to fathom surely why these girls are in a different bracket to a publican.

well yeah, stupid laws, stupid lawmakers and stupid citizens.

collidgedosser

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Alcohol and cigarettes do a lot of harm I'm not denying that. They are however, legally available products so people do not have to engage in criminal activities to obtain them.

These girls got involved with a criminal(s) to carry out an illegal criminal operation i.e. smuggle class A drugs from one country to another. They did this knowingly, of their own volition as adults who had received a full education and were fully capable of working for a living.
They had no reason, no excuse, no cause to turn to smuggling illegal drugs in order to put food on the table.
They tried to pull a fast one, the consequences of which had they suceeded would have most likely caused great harm to many other people, they got caught and now they have to pay the price.
They are adults, they can vote, get married, get divorced, buy a house, consent to operations,etc etc. With all of those rights comes responsibility. They failed to uphold this responsibility and now they must be tried as the adults they are.

People steal to buy alcohol all the time! And people break the law all the time buying dodgy fags to reduce the cost of their addictions.

Cant really argue with the points below

Penny Dreadful

collidgedosser wrote: »

People steal to buy alcohol all the time! And people break the law all the time buying dodgy fags to reduce the cost of their addictions.

Cant really argue with the points below

And when they are caught they are punished for theft not for possession of a legal substance.
People who are caught in possession of cigarettes that have been smuggled in are charged with smuggling, the act, not the fact that they have legal substances in their possession.
If you are smuggling cocaine you are charged with smuggling, the act, and also for possession of an illegal substance.

collidgedosser

jaykay74 wrote: »

There are legal activities that can lead to death
There are illegal activities that can lead to death.

Its not that hard to fathom surely why these girls are in a different bracket to a publican.

Actually I dont really differentiate moral high ground for publicans or sellers of other drugs because the end effects are exactly the same on the user. I do however recognise that one of the two is a state sanctioned dealer

And we do have to operate within the laws of the state dont we now

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

collidgedosser

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Fred what was that you were saying about "the RA" yesterday

Mod

collidgedosser do not post in this thread again.

giles lynchwood

Looking at the most recent newspaper photographs,their faces are begining to show the strain.Reality has raised it's ulgy head for these two, and it seems that the peruvian authorites have decided to make an example of them,which they brought upon themselves.They could very well be looking at very long sentences.

minotour

This lot hate to see an opinion in contrast to the herd. While "oh give it a rest" is a perfectly acceptable point of debate???

constance tench

minotour wrote: »

This lot hate to see an opinion in contrast to the herd. While "oh give it a rest" is a perfectly acceptable point of debate???

What do you hope to achieve here ?....do you accept that, if the girls didn't try to smuggle a large quantity of cocaine and subsequently tried to dupe the Peruvian authorities with a fantastic story featuring a Columbian drug gang, with guns, who threatened them and their Family, whisked them from Ibiza to Majorca, then Peru where they 'holidayed' for a while, got their photo taken with a Peruvian police officer, did two runs to collect the drugs carrying exactly half each get caught at the airport, insist they are innocent and were coerced, but have no proof to back up their statement, then give a self serving guilty plea while not accepting guilt, that comments in this thread, running through 146 pages would not exist?

Penny Dreadful

minotour wrote: »

This lot hate to see an opinion in contrast to the herd. While "oh give it a rest" is a perfectly acceptable point of debate???

A different point of view is perfectly fine. Some posters are being argumentative simply for the sake of it.

tipptom

Deleted User wrote: »

Mod

collidgedosser do not post in this thread again.

Why cant we know what was said in that post?

chickcharnley

who is collidgedosser ?
anyways:
matlock has well and truly gone to ground where is he with his statement that he was supposedely going to issue?

Mod

Following PM discussion with collidgedosser I am lifting the thread ban.

Everyone please keep the discussion civil, inflammatory posts will not tolerated, personal attacks will not be tolerated. Report posts which you feel are breaking the rules.

Thanks

collidgedosser

chickcharnley wrote: »

who is collidgedosser ?
anyways:
matlock has well and truly gone to ground where is he with his statement that he was supposedely going to issue?

Matlock? Who are you refering to and what statement?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

homemadecider

homemadecider wrote: »

Then what is your vested interest in the case?

collidgedosser wrote: »

whats yours and the other posters on the thread?

homemadecider wrote: »

I don't have a vested interest. I'm not coming on here defending criminals and drug mules.

Do you want to answer my question now?

collidgedosser wrote: »

Sorry could you find a quote for me on that and then I will immediately answer all questions you have

Can you answer the question now as to your vested interest in the case? I assume you are a relative of Michaela?

collidgedosser

homemadecider wrote: »

Can you answer the question now as to your vested interest in the case? I assume you are a relative of Michaela?

I already stated last night that I am not related to her

collidgedosser

And my only interest in this thread was to stop the nasty comments people were making especially the ones where people where laughing at a fundraising attempt

collidgedosser

Anyways I have repeated myself several times on the issues and the general response to me has been with a degree of hostility and attempts have been made by many to draw me on other issues, and suggestions were made that I held views that I would describe as being outside the bounds of the normal views in society, such as drug smugglers should be just let go and so on.

Anyways I am glad to see that since I became involved in the discussion, some posters have to to realise that there comments can unneccessarily cause hurt to those close to the lady in question and these rotten comments have since stopped and I hope it remains this way.

homemadecider

Do you also visit other threads with ‘nasty comments’ todefend people you aren’t related to? What is so special about this case?

constance tench

collidgedosser wrote: »

I already stated last night that I am not related to her

You are friendly with her brothers though, right?

chopper6

constance tench wrote: »

You are friendly with her brothers though, right?

I havnt been posting here for a little while but i got the distinct impression from him he was subtly threatening people with Micahella's brothers(both of which he named).


He brothers have sod-all to do with the case and if anything they should be further pissed off with thier idiot sister for dragging them by proxy onto an internet discussion board.

collidgedosser

homemadecider wrote: »

Do you also visit other threads with ‘nasty comments’ todefend people you aren’t related to? What is so special about this case?

After hearing the comments page on the fundraiser was amusing somebody on this thread requested a link so they could use it for some "tomfoolery". I found that incredibly disgusting, decent innocent people struggling to raise money to help their youngest daughter who was in serious trouble and danger and some heartless individual wanted to go on it and make comments having a laugh or worse, on a website the family are watching closely. This really is the lowest of the low, especially with internet bullying being a current topic in ireland and UK. Im suprised that these individuals have not been given a permanent account ban which is the most lenient sentence they should receive for such a lowly horrible ways of entertainment

Penny Dreadful

collidgedosser wrote: »

And my only interest in this thread was to stop the nasty comments people were making especially the ones where people where laughing at a fundraising attempt

Its not so much the fact that a fundraiser was attempted its the background too.
The girls have been arrogant (IMHO and others too) in their lack of respect for the crime committed, the Peruvian authorities, the story they made up and then retracted all the while without the least show or glimmer or remorse for their actions.
This has meant that people feel no sympathy for the girls. This means people are unlikely to be sympathetic to the notion of digging deep to pay for the girl to a) possibly get released or b) come back to serve her sentence here at our expense.
Saying things like "they're young and didn't know what they were doing" makes things worse. If they were contrite it wouldn't irritate so much.

collidgedosser

chopper6 wrote: »

I havnt been posting here for a little while but i got the distinct impression from him he was subtly threatening people with Micahella's brothers(both of which he named).


He brothers have sod-all to do with the case and if anything they should be further pissed off with thier idiot sister for dragging them by proxy onto an internet discussion board.

Wow this is incredible! I would like to see quotes where i suggested threats to anybody, I simply asked would you make these comments in earshot of her family brothers or mother!
Your imagination is running wild on this

constance tench

collidgedosser wrote: »

Wow this is incredible! I would like to see quotes where i suggested threats to anybody, I simply asked would you make these comments in earshot of her family brothers or mother!
Your imagination is running wild on this

...already posted them..and well you know it!