Peru drug smuggling case - READ OP BEFORE POSTING

Boom_Bap

MOD
This is not a discussion on viewing habits and licence fees. Back on topic please.

Bacchus

HensVassal wrote: »

FFS man, as soon as you attempt to make an analogy (which by the way doesn't have to be the exact same thing as its counterpart it merely serves to rationalise behaviour and or attitudes) you get people on here who just can't seem to step back and engage a bit of fcuking logic. They just immediately get the wrong end of the stick. In fact they seem to go out of their way to get the wrong end of the damn stick. I'll give you a simple example. So many people on here are all cockahoop about the "lives that drugs can ruin". I mentioned that alcohol ruins lives too as does gambling. Straight away a poster pipes up that "you can't compare smuggling several kilos of coke to having a few pints!!"

Exasperation was all I could muster in the face of such a colossal brainfart.

Your aggressive tone tells me I'm unlikely to get anywhere talking to you (prove me wrong). You could have responded to my post instead of attacking it without actually addressing anything I say in it.

Tell me the logic of it so. How does not making significant mistakes in your life equate to not being able to comment on or judge someone for becoming a drug mule? That's not out of context, that's what was in your post that I quoted.

Also, your analogy is terrible. It is nothing at all like the situation with Michaella. Please show me which end of the stick makes a connection between an innocent man being accused of one serious crime and a caught red handed girl convicted of another serious crime. People defending the innocent man would have a leg to stand on cause... you know... he's innocent. Michaella was guilty and is a convicted criminal.

BTW, in case you haven't seen my earlier posts on the topic, I don't agree with the outrage against Michaella (she did her time in jail) but nor to I buy her BS story from the interview. IMO, she should have been let get on with her life but she chose to do the interview and it's in the public domain now.

HensVassal

Allyall wrote: »

Why not answer Bacchus questions then, and ellaborate some more instead of ranting on about people immediately getting the wrong end of the stick?

I'm not answering Bacchus' question because with all due respect it's a stupid irrelevant question regarding a conclusion HE mistakenly jumped to and you expect me to waste my time talking him through it.

Other users have grasped the crux of it, why should I play wetnurse to Bacchus?

Allyall

HensVassal wrote: »

I'm not answering Bacchus' question because with all due respect it's a stupid irrelevant question regarding a conclusion HE mistakenly jumped to and you expect me to waste my time talking him through it.

Other users have grasped the crux of it, why should I play wetnurse to Bacchus?

I don't think anyone has grasped it..

Bacchus

HensVassal wrote: »

I'm not answering Bacchus' question because with all due respect it's a stupid irrelevant question regarding a conclusion HE mistakenly jumped to and you expect me to waste my time talking him through it.

Other users have grasped the crux of it, why should I play wetnurse to Bacchus?

Spoken like a person with no answer. If it's so obvious, please do share.

_Kaiser_

Anyway............

She's a convicted drug mule and it now seems that her claims in the interview this week about having to leave NI at short notice due to threats don't stack up either:

The Co. Tyrone native revealed in her now infamous RTÉ interview that she fled Northern Ireland for Ibiza after “sectarian” threats forced her out.
The story is in contradiction with Michaella’s mother who told a documentary her daughter had the Ibiza trip planned months before travelling there in 2013.
According to The Herald, the 23-year-old’s mother said her daughter had been planning the trip for quite some time despite protests from her family.

Bottom line is it's ridiculous the amount of coverage this girl is getting - if she was a similarly aged male in similar circumstances we wouldn't have heard a word except maybe a few column inches as an FYI at the time. She should still be locked up and left to serve out her full sentence IMO. Why RTE saw the need to put her on prime time TV looking like a supermodel is beyond me.

Bacchus

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Anyway............

She's a convicted drug mule and it now seems that her claims in the interview this week about having to leave NI at short notice due to threats don't stack up either:

Bottom line is it's ridiculous the amount of coverage this girl is getting - if she was a similarly aged male in similar circumstances we wouldn't have heard a word except maybe a few column inches as an FYI at the time.

So pretty much what most people expected was the real truth. I don't quite understand why she went to such lengths to paint a different picture of herself as a victim. In hindsight, she may have gained a bit more traction (and even sympathy) had she given an honest, open interview.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

She should still be locked up and left to serve out her full sentence IMO.

First time offence to be fair and she served what? 3 years? 3 years is a pretty good deterrent (for the sake of about €15k) if you ask me.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Why RTE saw the need to put her on prime time TV looking like a supermodel is beyond me.

Probably because of the interest in her story. The image change was a PR move by her I imagine. I doubt it's the last we'll hear of her... won't be long till she features in "I'm a celebrity get me out of here" :pac:

Allyall

Bacchus wrote: »

First time offence to be fair and she served what? 3 years? 3 years is a pretty good deterrent (for the sake of about €15k) if you ask me.

Just being pedantic, but i believe it was 2 and a half years and €5k offered..
(I can't for the life of me remember where that €5k figure came from, so I can't link to anything).

A big if, but IF she does get a few interviews, The Sun/Star Sky News, Morning TV, Afternoon TV etc.. That could amount to a decent figure.

maudgonner

Bacchus wrote: »

Probably because of the interest in her story. The image change was a PR move by her I imagine. I doubt it's the last we'll hear of her... won't be long till she features in "I'm a celebrity get me out of here" :pac:

I think that she already is, in her own mind anyway :pac:

Muahahaha

Simon2015 wrote: »

If we follow that logic then the families of people who have died because of drugs should also be able to sue her.

Thats not logical in a legal sense, the families of drug overdoses would have to prove causality which is next to impossible

Heat_Wave wrote: »

I went to Ibiza when I was 22. I spent my whole time drinking and partying, drinking and partying....but never once did I consider becoming a drugs mule and smuggling millions worth of cocaine out of the country.............you have to laugh at the people who say 'we all make
mistakes'

I think that is over simplifying it a bit. A lot of journalists have written about the modus operandi of these drug smuggling gangs. They target women on the party scene sharing around 'free coke' and paying for them into nightclubs, etc. After a month or two of this then they confront their target saying they owe them €5k for all the 'free' coke and when they can't pay up they offer the drug run as a way to settle the debt. By this stage they'll know everything about their target, where they're from, where their family live, etc and they'll threaten action on them too. Naive young and broke girls on the party scene in Ibiza are two a penny so its rich pickings for them

In 2013 in Peru there was 260 odd people caught smuggling through Lima airport alone, that is five people caught every week throughout the year. It goes to show there are lots of naive young people out there who fall for the gangs tricks- remember we only hear of those who get caught, not the 80% or 90% who get away with it.

Its easy to say 'we all make mistakes' for sure. But when you have the leader of a drug gang put the barrel of a gun into your mouth people naturally get frightened and don't think straight and then do things that they normally would never consider. The gangs use coercion and threats in a very effective way.

WarZ

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think that is over simplifying it a bit. A lot of journalists have written about the modus operandi of these drug smuggling gangs. They target women on the party scene sharing around 'free coke' and paying for them into nightclubs, etc. After a month or two of this then they confront their target saying they owe them €5k for all the 'free' coke and when they can't pay up they offer the drug run as a way to settle the debt. By this stage they'll know everything about their target, where they're from, where their family live, etc and they'll threaten action on them too. Naive young and broke girls on the party scene in Ibiza are two a penny so its rich pickings for them
.

That is such waffle. It just doesn't work like that. Firstly these gangs don't just give out huge amounts of coke on tick to tourists in Ibiza. That is plain silly. They can leave at any time and the logistics of chasing a debt from another country is way more hassle than its worth.

No way does any gang allow a 5k debt to build up when the person is on holiday and could leave at any time.

More likely, she was partying with these gangs, enjoying the lifestyle and was out of money. They offered her the chance to do a drug run. They honestly don't need to force people or exert pressure for people to do drug runs, there are enough morons lining up to do it. Like these two.

VinLieger

WarZ wrote: »

That is such waffle. It just doesn't work like that. Firstly these gangs don't just give out huge amounts of coke on tick to tourists in Ibiza. That is plain silly. They can leave at any time and the logistics of chasing a debt from another country is way more hassle than its worth.

No way does any gang allow a 5k debt to build up when the person is on holiday and could leave at any time.

More likely, she was partying with these gangs, enjoying the lifestyle and was out of money. They offered her the chance to do a drug run. They honestly don't need to force people or exert pressure for people to do drug runs, there are enough morons lining up to do it. Like these two.

Exactly there is zero evidence she was coerced/threatened/forced into anything, not one part of her story has been proven to be true

Muahahaha

WarZ wrote: »

That is such waffle. It just doesn't work like that. Firstly these gangs don't just give out huge amounts of coke on tick to tourists in Ibiza. That is plain silly. They can leave at any time and the logistics of chasing a debt from another country is way more hassle than its worth.

No way does any gang allow a 5k debt to build up when the person is on holiday and could leave at any time.

More likely, she was partying with these gangs, enjoying the lifestyle and was out of money. They offered her the chance to do a drug run. They honestly don't need to force people or exert pressure for people to do drug runs, there are enough morons lining up to do it. Like these two.

I'm only stating what journos have written about the way it works. They did the investigation and wrote about it. How do you know it doesn't work like that? You called it waffle so what investigation or inside knowledge do you have to come to this conclusion?

And the price of the €5k debt could be as little as €100. You do know you can buy a gram of coke in Peru for $2. So while the gangs call the debt €5k the reality of what they can import the coke for is but a fraction of that.

At the end of the day neither of us know how it works. But I do think there is coercion involved, risking a 15-20 year stretch in prison is never going to be worth whatever they're paying you. Plus most people are fully aware of the consequences from programs like Banged Up Abroad. Drug gangs are hardened criminals who wouldn't think a second about holding a gun to someones head. Once they scare a young person like that they have control of them. They need their targets to be scared so they do exactly as they want them too and don't get any ideas such as going to the police or double crossing them by getting on a different flight.

swimming in a sea

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Anyway............

She's a convicted drug mule and it now seems that her claims in the interview this week about having to leave NI at short notice due to threats don't stack up either:



Bottom line is it's ridiculous the amount of coverage this girl is getting - if she was a similarly aged male in similar circumstances we wouldn't have heard a word except maybe a few column inches as an FYI at the time. She should still be locked up and left to serve out her full sentence IMO. Why RTE saw the need to put her on prime time TV looking like a supermodel is beyond me.

Don't agree with that, unless Penneys are doing supermodels.

WarZ

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm only stating what journos have written about the way it works. They did the investigation and wrote about it. How do you know it doesn't work like that? You called it waffle so what investigation or inside knowledge do you have to come to this conclusion?

And the price of the €5k debt could be as little as €100. You do know you can buy a gram of coke in Peru for $2. So while the gangs call the debt €5k the reality of what they can import the coke for is but a fraction of that.

At the end of the day neither of us know how it works. But I do think there is coercion involved, risking a 15-20 year stretch in prison is never going to be worth whatever they're paying you. Plus most people are fully aware of the consequences from programs like Banged Up Abroad. Drug gangs are hardened criminals who wouldn't think a second about holding a gun to someones head. Once they scare a young person like that they have control of them. They need their targets to be scared so they do exactly as they want them too and don't get any ideas such as going to the police or double crossing them by getting on a different flight.

From my past I know exactly how it works. Those days are long behind me (thank god).

Trust me, these gangs don't force or coerce anyone into smuggling. They are mainly Liverpool gangs operating in Ibiza and they have connections with Irish criminals around Crumlin and Driminagh. The story McCollum came up with is pure bull****, plain and simple. The only time gangs force or coerce someone with a debt to do something is when they ask them to hold onto drugs in their properties.

They don't want their mules to be scared or forced to do something. They want their mules to want to do it. For the excitement, the buzz and of course the money. And there are enough people willing to do it for those reasons that they don't need to trick young innocent girls into racking up a bill and then pressuring them to board flights to South America. They know that its highly likely the person would just not board the flight to South America and go home, leaving the gangs with the debt unpaid and unless the debt is something silly then they are not going to go through the logistical nightmare of trying to collect it from someone living in another country for **** sake.

This bull**** about debts and coercion is just that, bull****. It wasn't a case that these girls were tricked into running up a massive coke tab after naively partying with a group of people.

armaghlad

I don't think they were tricked but they were certainly misled and manipulated into doing it.

SAMTALK

What I dont get is that she does an interview and then lies her way throught it

Does she not think that her story would be questioned, that journalists would investigate her history/stories and her lies would be exposed?

Menas

SAMTALK wrote: »

What I dont get is that she does an interview and then lies her way throught it

Old habits die hard!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

SAMTALK

Menas wrote: »

Old habits die hard!

Whoever her adviser is didnt do a good job!

HensVassal

Bacchus wrote: »

Spoken like a person with no answer. If it's so obvious, please do share.

On the contrary, I framed a scenario, you skimmed through it and without pausing to digest any of it you jumped to a fallacious assumption, accusing me of comparing apples to oranges and now want me to deliver you from your mistake. It was your mistaken assumption and because I'm not clearing up your mess you accuse me of not having an answer. Nice try but don't bother.

Bacchus

HensVassal wrote: »

On the contrary, I framed a scenario, you skimmed through it and without pausing to digest any of it you jumped to a fallacious assumption, accusing me of comparing apples to oranges and now want me to deliver you from your mistake. It was your mistaken assumption and because I'm not clearing up your mess you accuse me of not having an answer. Nice try but don't bother.

Nice try but really both points you make in the post that I quoted make no sense (I did more than skim through them) and you have repeatedly dodged any request to clarify or defend what you said. Instead you seem to think that dismissing any critique of your post as "you didn't understand, I don't have time for this" is enough to get you off the hook (so to speak).

There is no assumption on my part. I took you post as I read it, there's little ambiguity in it and I stand by my original response to it. Now, do you have any actual response this time or is this still a waste of your time to lower yourself by having to explain what you meant.

rsh118

It's a non-story. Woman who deserved to go to jail went to jail! There's not much more to it.

Witchie

armaghlad wrote: »

Afaiaa she identifies as Irish, holds an Irish passport and was supported throughout by the Irish embassy.

Actually I am pretty sure she was born in Monaghan but the family moved back up north when she was about 10 years old or something along those lines.

armaghlad

Witchie wrote: »

Actually I am pretty sure she was born in Monaghan but the family moved back up north when she was about 10 years old or something along those lines.

Yes I heard that as well. But Dungannon is her "hometown". Apparently that makes her British.

Witchie

armaghlad wrote: »

Yes I heard that as well. But Dungannon is her "hometown". Apparently that makes her British.

Aye...try tell my Irish cousin and her Canadian husband that living in Dungannon makes them British and you will see what happens.

I was born in Enniskillen but am Irish. That said I am gonna get my British passport for travelling later in the year.

armaghlad

Witchie wrote: »

Aye...try tell my Irish cousin and her Canadian husband that living in Dungannon makes them British and you will see what happens.

I was born in Enniskillen but am Irish. That said I am gonna get my British passport for travelling later in the year.

I think it was the other thread that some posters came out with that nonsense: "NI is British, shes Brirish, it's the UK's problem" etc etc. They wouldn't be too quick to tell the Mccollum face to face that they're British.

HensVassal

armaghlad wrote: »

Yes I heard that as well. But Dungannon is her "hometown". Apparently that makes her British.

For the thousandth time, Northern Ireland is NOT part of Britain. Britain is that big island to the east that comprises England, Scotland and Wales. Northern Ireland is part of an entity called the UK otherwise known as The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Anyway that's another discussion.

Lingua Franca

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Careful with pointing that out, I said that earlier and was asked to produce my evidence of "her parole conditions".

And someone thought that OFCOM was a ludicrous, risible source for broadcasting regulations! :pac:

Allyall

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Careful with pointing that out, I said that earlier and was asked to produce my evidence of "her parole conditions".

And someone thought that OFCOM was a ludicrous, risible source for broadcasting regulations! :pac:

Who and where?

Muahahaha

WarZ wrote: »

From my past I know exactly how it works. Those days are long behind me (thank god).

Trust me, these gangs don't force or coerce anyone into smuggling. They are mainly Liverpool gangs operating in Ibiza and they have connections with Irish criminals around Crumlin and Driminagh. The story McCollum came up with is pure bull****, plain and simple. The only time gangs force or coerce someone with a debt to do something is when they ask them to hold onto drugs in their properties.

They don't want their mules to be scared or forced to do something. They want their mules to want to do it. For the excitement, the buzz and of course the money. And there are enough people willing to do it for those reasons that they don't need to trick young innocent girls into racking up a bill and then pressuring them to board flights to South America. They know that its highly likely the person would just not board the flight to South America and go home, leaving the gangs with the debt unpaid and unless the debt is something silly then they are not going to go through the logistical nightmare of trying to collect it from someone living in another country for **** sake.

This bull**** about debts and coercion is just that, bull****. It wasn't a case that these girls were tricked into running up a massive coke tab after naively partying with a group of people.

My point is how can you know for sure? You say 'those days are long behind me', were you smuggling yourselfor something

Nobody knows for certain what way it works. Even then different smuggling gangs will have different ways of doing things, its not like there is an instruction manual for these things. But if I was a trafficker using mules and giving them €2m worth of cocaine I'd want them to be scared of their life to ensure they didn't double cross you. If they are willing to risk 15 years in prison sure why not risk getting on a different plane and then trying to move the drugs on themselves where ever they land. How can the gang be 100% certain that they won't be double crossed ? How can they be certain that the mule won't approach a police officer in the airport and give themselves up? My guess is it is by coercion and threat whereas you say these mules are lining up to get €5k in exchange for the risk of their lives being ruined. Would you not even consider the possibility that perhaps both methods are used by any number of smuggling gangs?

For the record I don't believe McCollums story either and think it is a web of lies. However I also think that if most people were in her situation they would also lie, it is a defence mechanism when you realise you are already in big trouble you lie to try to mitigate the consequences of what you've done. When you're desperate you'll say anything in the (misguided) hope that you'll get off or at least reduce your sentence.

Muahahaha

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Do we not have something similar here? Also how come Howard Marks is allowed to profit from his actions? He does talks all around the UK, has sold millions of books, etc.

DEFTLEFTHAND

armaghlad wrote: »

I don't think they were tricked but they were certainly misled and manipulated into doing it.

Or maybe they just wanted to do it. 5k, a free week in Peru, very low risk of being detected. They're not ditzy idiots, they were 21 year old adults at the time who made a conscious decision to do this.

Lingua Franca

Allyall wrote: »

Who and where?

Your disingenuity wasn't cute before and it's no cuter now.

Allyall

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Your disingenuity wasn't cute before and it's no cuter now.

Who and where?

You pointed to OFCOM as a legal reason she couldn't.
I pointed out it was merely broadcasting code. Hardly the law.

Nowhere did anyone I can see, say that OFCOM Broadcast code "was a ludicrous, risible source for broadcasting regulations! "

Unless you're referring to someone else.


.

Kidchameleon

VinLieger wrote: »

People arent allowed have an opinion on what their license money gets spent on?

How much do you think it costs to conduct an interview in Peru? It was well worth their while, they got huge viewership and people like you are promoting their channel to boot. Well done.

armaghlad

HensVassal wrote: »

For the thousandth time, Northern Ireland is NOT part of Britain. Britain is that big island to the east that comprises England, Scotland and Wales. Northern Ireland is part of an entity called the UK otherwise known as The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Anyway that's another discussion.

I am well aware of that. other posters ; not so much...

Paulownia

When I have my five minutes of fame it hopefully will be for something less tacky than to share with the world my excuses for embarking on a career as a drug smuggler. I'm not sure what their next career moves could be. Perhaps a novel?

Rattser

Paulownia wrote: »

When I have my five minutes of fame it hopefully will be for something less tacky than to share with the world my excuses for embarking on a career as a drug smuggler. I'm not sure what their next career moves could be. Perhaps a novel?

I think that's a given. Perhaps an episode of Banged Up Abroad?

bajer101

The Sunday Times are reporting that the Irish Independent offered to pay Michaella McCollum for an interview, but she refused. They then ran a few articles from unsubstantiated "sources" in Peru. The cynic in me suspects that they went to the expense of sending a journalist out to Peru and when the journalist didn't get the interview they just made up stories.

timthumbni

armaghlad wrote: »

I am well aware of that. other posters ; not so much...

No, I've no argument that this particular international drug smuggler is Irish. She said so herself. But she's not a bad girl...

gormdubhgorm

timthumbni wrote: »

No, I've no argument that this particular international drug smuggler is Irish. She said so herself. But she's not a bad girl...

just a bad drug smuggler?

timthumbni

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

just a bad drug smuggler?

Who knows? She could have had another 10 keys in that bun and no one has seen that since she went in. At least she was concerned what would have happened if those drugs had have got through though... A right little mother Theresa we have here.....

realitykeeper

The curse that is the drug trade understandably creates a great deal of anger. That anger needs to be vented. If Michelle McCollum is to be forgiven, the outrage caused by her crime will not dissipate. So, all that anger needs to be refocused on the people who sent her to Peru. Ultimately, the solution is to find the head of the snake and decapitate it.

Paulownia

Now that she is out on bail, I worry that she will have enough money to live on. I assume the dole is not great in Peru, nothing like here anyway.
Maybe the poor girl was visiting that guy for a dig out rather than a job interview

DEFTLEFTHAND

Don't worry about her mate she got an exceptionally light sentence. She only served two years, as her Peruvian counsel stated a man of similar age trafficking 1.2 million euro would have got 25 years without the possibility of parole.

She's on parole in Peru but I guarantee you she'll be back home within the year, it's quite simple to skip and take flight.

What's the future hold though? She's a convicted drug trafficker, not something you want on your CV.

HensVassal

HensVassal wrote: »

There are many mistakes that I have not made, such as getting my girlfriend pregnant at the age of 16, but it happens all the time and just because I didn't do it doesn't qualify me to judge that it's an unacceptable mistake for others to make.

That's a beaut!

Are you saying you can judge something that has happened and might be frequent, even though it hasn't happened to you?

The flying mouse

bajer101 wrote: »

The Sunday Times are reporting that the Irish Independent offered to pay Michaella McCollum for an interview, but she refused. They then ran a few articles from unsubstantiated "sources" in Peru. The cynic in me suspects that they went to the expense of sending a journalist out to Peru and when the journalist didn't get the interview they just made up stories.

At least she has some small morals left :p:pac::pac:

Mr E

Rumour that she has been confirmed for Celeb Big Brother. I thought a Peruvian prison for drug smuggling was pretty low, but it seems she wants to go even lower.

http://theliberal.ie/reports-coming-through-michaella-mccollum-has-been-confirmed-for-celebrity-big-brother/

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.