Peru drug smuggling case - READ OP BEFORE POSTING

kylith

MooShop wrote: »

I wasn't trying to make an excuse for them, I was merely pointing out how immature they were to even think they would get away with it. I don't but their story about being forced into it. I posted that link as I thought there may be some similarities as to how they were talked into it etc. I totally agree with what you said by the way.

Well, when you called them very young girls who didn't understand the gravity of the situation it did kind of sound like you were trying to make excuses for them.

Amazingfun

kylith wrote: »

Well, when you called them very young girls who didn't understand the gravity of the situation it did kind of sound like you were trying to make excuses for them.

Our modern society now encourages childhood to last until the late 30's almost

These two are probably as 'mature' as 14 year olds from yesteryear.

KwackerJack

They way I see it is that no drug dealers need to force anyone to traffic drugs as there is always someone willing to do just that for money!

Did they really believe that they would get away with this?? They obviously never seen banged up abroad!!

Chances are they were just guinea pigs who were already screwed before they even got on the plane. I bet a lot more drugs went through customs that day while all the attention was on the 2 girls.

I feel sorry for the family's but as for the girls well it's a pretty bad and stupid decision they will have to live with!

Allyall

Phoebas wrote: »

^^ ALL of this post is nonsense.

Apparently not. Not nonsense,

It's not written into their law - "Guilty until proven innocent", but it is widely accepted that, that is how how it is practiced, or that there is a degree of "Guilty until proven innocent" in their corrupt/flawed system.
Media reports from cases inside Peru often refer to the "Peruvian Guilty until Proved Innocent system". It may not be factually correct, or the way Peru has written their law, but it has a name for that worldwide.

http://howtoperu.com/2012/03/27/drugs-in-peru-laws-of-possession/
http://www.maristmissions.com/Projects_Peru.html

"Napoleonic","Primitive" and "Archaic" are often words used to describe the Peruvian Justice system.

One advantage the Girls may have, is that is widely believed that the Judges are there to be paid off.
Even with the amount of media attention that this case is getting, it might be worth trying to find out how to do that, even if it means still going to prison, just for a much, much shorter sentence.

dr.bollocko

We should start banning people for mentioning Banged up abroad.

KwackerJack

dr.bollocko wrote: »

We should start banning people for mentioning Banged up abroad.

:eek:

I mentioned the tv programme yes, but as an example that people in this day and age should really be more wise to these scams!!

Oryx

This:

KwackerJack wrote: »

Did they really believe that they would get away with this??

Contradicts this:

I bet a lot more drugs went through customs that day

In your opinion, plenty got away with it.

just_be_nice

Allyall wrote: »

Apparently not. Not nonsense,

It's not written into their law - "Guilty until proven innocent", but it is widely accepted that, that is how how it is practiced, or that there is a degree of "Guilty until proven innocent" in their corrupt/flawed system.
Media reports from cases inside Peru often refer to the "Peruvian Guilty until Proved Innocent system". It may not be factually correct, or the way Peru has written their law, but it has a name for that worldwide.

http://howtoperu.com/2012/03/27/drugs-in-peru-laws-of-possession/
http://www.maristmissions.com/Projects_Peru.html

"Napoleonic","Primitive" and "Archaic" are often words used to describe the Peruvian Justice system.

One advantage the Girls may have, is that is widely believed that the Judges are there to be paid off.
Even with the amount of media attention that this case is getting, it might be worth trying to find out how to do that, even if it means still going to prison, just for a much, much shorter sentence.

Wasn't it in France around Napolean's time that innocent until proven guilty was first conceived? Not 100% sure, but I think it's the case.

just_be_nice

KwackerJack wrote: »

:eek:

I mentioned the tv programme yes, but as an example that people in this day and age should really be more wise to these scams!!

The episode on the 2 American girls banged up in Peru seems very pertinent to this situation. I would expect that there are a lot of parallels in their stories.

KwackerJack

Oryx wrote: »

This:

Contradicts this:
In your opinion, plenty got away with it.

Yes but look at it this way. 2 fresh faced Europeans arrive in Peru and all they have is a few clothes and packets of hot drinks powder?

So if you were a customs officer you going to focus on them more than a Peruvian national who may well be smuggling drugs also.

My point being that these girls are not professional traffickers and there for would not know the 'tricks of the trade' and like all non nationals in an airport in South American they stick out a mile and that is just what customs are waiting for!

Those girl were more than likely sent in as decoys which is usually what happens while a possible Peruvian national walked right through customs with possibly more drugs.

The above is just a broad explanation and not what did/might of happened.

GorillaRising

There seems to be a good few people feeling sorry for these two. If they were two lads I doubt they'd get that much sympathy.

It looks as though they were smuggling cocaine. If they're found guilty (and I can't see how they won't be given what we know), then they deserve serious jail time. Same as anyone who does such a thing.

Now perhaps the punishment is more severe there than it would be here, or elsewhere, but if you break the law in another country then you've to be tried and sentenced (if convicted) in line with those laws. Simple as.

I just don't feel any sympathy for them.

Stench Blossoms

KwackerJack wrote: »

Those girl were more than likely sent in as decoys which is usually what happens while a possible Peruvian national walked right through customs with possibly more drugs.

If they were sent in as decoys why were they given 11kg's?

Surely they'd give them a smaller amount if that was the case?

KwackerJack

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

If they were sent in as decoys why were they given 11kg's?

Surely they'd give them a smaller amount if that was the case?

True but depending on how big the dealers are 11kg could be scraped of the cutting table in terms of how much they produce and sell

blade1

just_be_nice wrote: »

Has anyone read or heard any news item relating to the pros and cons of pleading not-guilty vs guilty in terms of likely actual jail time to be served?

A guilty plea, likely a much shorter time to a sentencing trial, the potential of 2-3 years, time off for good behaviour, seems a no-brainer when the wait time for a trial is possibly 3 years plus 15 if found guilty, which is a strong possibility based on current evidence.

It does not seem like Peter Madden has been of any use to Michaella so far; she has pleaded not guilty, didn't get bail, and might have to wait up to 3 years to see if she will face another 15.

He must have something up his sleeve, but unless he organised a prison break, there seems to be nothing more that can be done but wait months or years for the trial.

Unless the something up his sleeve is the evidence ie the coke, they're fooked!

Allyall

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

If they were sent in as decoys why were they given 11kg's?

Surely they'd give them a smaller amount if that was the case?

If you're to believe that the Peruvian system is as corrupt as it is made out, i.e. - it ranges from the road sweeper up to the President.

Then, it is to be believed that they often send people in with the sole purpose of being caught. The amount (11kg in this case) is so that the correct people get their required, sizeable 'pat on the back'.

It is also so that it creates a big enough distraction. 2kgs would probably not turn as many heads.

What (i found) is interesting, is that Drug Mules are only used by the low end of the drug smugglers worldwide for profit. So the Mule is the lowest of the low.
The larger cartels and smugglers only use mules to detract attention away from other things, by tipping customs/Police off, and allowing them to have their 'catch'.
Mules are considered to be highly disposable, as they are usually desperate people that need money, or are at the end of their tether.

Thud

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

If they were sent in as decoys why were they given 11kg's?

Surely they'd give them a smaller amount if that was the case?

there was a guy on Matt Cooper the other evening saying that you could pick up bricks of the stuff over there relatively cheaply (10-20dollars) that would set you up for life if you could get it home

Boombastic

Allyall wrote: »

If you're to believe that the Peruvian system is as corrupt as it is made out, i.e. - it ranges from the road sweeper up to the President.

Then, it is to be believed that they often send people in with the sole purpose of being caught. The amount (11kg in this case) is so that the correct people get their required, sizeable 'pat on the back'.

It is also so that it creates a big enough distraction. 2kgs would probably not turn as many heads.

What (i found) is interesting, is that Drug Mules are only used by the low end of the drug smugglers worldwide for profit. So the Mule is the lowest of the low.
The larger cartels and smugglers only use mules to detract attention away from other things, by tipping customs/Police off, and allowing them to have their 'catch'.
Mules are considered to be highly disposable, as they are usually desperate people that need money, or are at the end of their tether.

It's true what you say but I wouldn't fancy trying to use that as my defense in a Peruvian court

Allyall

Boombastic wrote: »

It's true what you say but I wouldn't fancy trying to use that as my defense in a Peruvian court

lol.

Nah.. I'd probably give that a miss.

donegal.

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

If they were sent in as decoys why were they given 11kg's?

Surely they'd give them a smaller amount if that was the case?

quote from a story on bbc "The 34-year-old now faces the standard sentence of six years and eight months for trafficking any amount of cocaine under 10kg."

If you're sacrificing the 2 girls to keep the authorities happy then it would probably have more effect to go over the 10kg .

Ray Palmer

Allyall wrote: »

"Napoleonic","Primitive" and "Archaic" are often words used to describe the Peruvian Justice system.

.

Isn't that the system they still use in France. Just because people in the western media get bombarded with the USA judicial system in media it is tended to be believed as the best. It relies on it being better to let 20 guilty people go free than have one innocent person go to jail.


The problem there is you have 20 guilty people free where as other systems might have 21 people in jail. It is debatable which is actually better. The French might have an issue with you calling their judicial system as primitive. The reason it is around the world is because the French set-up lots of these countries.

fishy fishy

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Isn't that the system they still use in France. Just because people in the western media get bombarded with the USA judicial system in media it is tended to be believed as the best. It relies on it being better to let 20 guilty people go free than have one innocent person go to jail.


.

not if you're in Guantanimo. :P

Amazingfun

donegal. wrote: »

quote from a story on bbc "The 34-year-old now faces the standard sentence of six years and eight months for trafficking any amount of cocaine under 10kg."

If your sacrificing the 2 girls to keep the authorities happy then it would probably have more effect to go over the 10kg .

They are over 10 Kgs, combined.

Allyall

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Isn't that the system they still use in France. Just because people in the western media get bombarded with the USA judicial system in media it is tended to be believed as the best. It relies on it being better to let 20 guilty people go free than have one innocent person go to jail.


The problem there is you have 20 guilty people free where as other systems might have 21 people in jail. It is debatable which is actually better. The French might have an issue with you calling their judicial system as primitive. The reason it is around the world is because the French set-up lots of these countries.

I didn't call any judicial system primitive, i was quoting other people talking about the Peruvian.

Napoleonic is one of the terms thrown around quite a lot.
But i guess when people use it, they wouldn't be referring to the up to date version of the Napoleonic code which are frequently amended (As i just noticed it says ).

greentea is just wrong

Interesting article on the daily mail today.

Clare Matthews, now 48, was jailed for drug smuggling in India
She says the five year jail sentence utterly ruined her life


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2399472/Wonder-horrors-Peru-drug-mules-face-Clare-Matthews-knows--story-chill-you.html

Amazingfun

greentea is just wrong wrote: »

Interesting article on the daily mail today.

Clare Matthews, now 48, was jailed for drug smuggling in India
She says the five year jail sentence utterly ruined her life


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2399472/Wonder-horrors-Peru-drug-mules-face-Clare-Matthews-knows--story-chill-you.html

http://documentarylovers.com/locked-up-abroad-party-girl/

I saw that one, but didn't realize she was so old when she did it!

**Kirsty from Eastenders played her, btw

donegal.

Amazingfun wrote: »

They are over 10 Kgs, combined.

:rolleyes: thats my point

Amazingfun

donegal. wrote: »

:rolleyes: thats my point

:P I need more coffee

constance tench

Amazingfun wrote: »

:P I need more coffee

Have a coca tea , go on...

Amazingfun

constance tench wrote: »

Have a coca tea , go on...

You have some, amigo? :cool:

constance tench

Amazingfun wrote: »

You have some, amigo? :cool:

Your welcome, anytime!.... takes up to three years to brew though.

The bushman

greentea is just wrong wrote: »

Interesting article on the daily mail today.

Clare Matthews, now 48, was jailed for drug smuggling in India
She says the five year jail sentence utterly ruined her life


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2399472/Wonder-horrors-Peru-drug-mules-face-Clare-Matthews-knows--story-chill-you.html

That is a very sad story, especially afterwards the way she missed out in settling down and having kids, time doesn't wait for anyone.
How do people in those situations keep their sanity while in prison, I know for a fact I would not be strong enough mentally to deal with the whole jail sentence, i wonder has the total gravity of the situation hit the 'Peru two' yet?

Cypher_sounds

What happens in Peru stays in Peru, literally.

purplecow1977

That wish list they've requested is a joke. I suppose it is before they were charged. ...But really, what were they thinking, pringles?! Croissants?!

tashiusclay

Thud wrote: »

there was a guy on Matt Cooper the other evening saying that you could pick up bricks of the stuff over there relatively cheaply (10-20dollars) that would set you up for life if you could get it home

Bricks/Kilos of Cocaine are usually wholesaled for around $500 each in the jungles of the production countries. And anyways, no 'gringo' would ever be able to get close enough to those sources to avail of those prices, without some pretty heavy contacts, I'd imagine.

Rightwing

purplecow1977 wrote: »

That wish list they've requested is a joke. I suppose it is before they were charged. ...But really, what were they thinking, pringles?! Croissants?!

They are out of their depth,,,, in every way :mad:

purplecow1977

I was in Peru & I was completely unaware that it was the cocaine capitall! I believe they're guilty. Not for me to decide though but even if they do get off, I will be suspicious it was a pay off.

purplecow1977

Rightwing wrote: »

They are out of their depth,,,, in every way :mad:

I think maybe they didn't fully realise the extent of matters until now.... I do feel somewhat sympathetic towards them; I can only imagine how frightening it must be.

MurdyWurdy

I don't think asking for Pringles is as ridiculous as some people are saying, they obviously need some food and Pringles stay fresh longer once opened as you can seal the tube.

purplecow1977

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

I don't think asking for Pringles is as ridiculous as some people are saying, they obviously need some food and Pringles stay fresh longer once opened as you can seal the tube.

Ah now, come on!

The bushman

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

I don't think asking for Pringles is as ridiculous as some people are saying, they obviously need some food and Pringles stay fresh longer once opened as you can seal the tube.

But once you pop-you can't stop ;-)

Sir Humphrey Appleby

The bushman wrote: »

But once you pop-you can't stop ;-)

Bit like cocaine then, highly addictive:D

MurdyWurdy

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Ah now, come on!

They have to ask for something, another poster was scoffing that they wanted Pringles and I just don't think it's a particularly strange thing to ask for. What would you have asked your family to bring in the same situation?

What they did was wrong, they were silly, immature and greedy and they shoukd pay the price but I do have a small amount of sympathy for them as well.

Amazingfun

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/08/21/scuba-diver-caught-smuggling-drugs-across-u-s-canada-border/

Not as serious a case, obviously, but the Americans give looooong sentences for drug offenses, even marijuana. He might even get longer than these two in Peru! Detroit won't be a nice place for a young Canadian White man to be incarcerated either.

purplecow1977

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

They have to ask for something, another poster was scoffing that they wanted Pringles and I just don't think it's a particularly strange thing to ask for. What would you have asked your family to bring in the same situation?

What they did was wrong, they were silly, immature and greedy and they shoukd pay the price but I do have a small amount of sympathy for them as well.

Why do they have to ask for anything? Why should they be allowed any luxuries? Other people in Peruvian jails aren't asking for Pringles! (I imagine!) I already said I have some sympathy for him because of the situation they are in, but I don't think asking for pringles and such does them any favours. Do they not get food in prison? If not, I certainly would be asking for something more substantial/filling than a box of pringles!

jank

Whatever about if they are guilty or not (and I think its obvious that they are a guilty as hell) they will earn a fortune from a book deal of sorts. Expect it to be accompanied by their own fashion label and perfume.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Amazingfun wrote: »

Detroit won't be a nice place for a young Canadian White man to be incarcerated either.

Why?

keith16

For anyone that has sympathy for them, think of it this way.

Imagine you go to Ibiza, to whatever the "nice" part of the island is.

It's a bit more pricey but you are at least away from all the louts.

Now imagine a small group of those louts invading the nice part and with it, your peace and quiet. They are staying in or near the same hotel, and are generally being loud annoying cùnts with money to burn and are ruining your holiday.

You grumble to the barman / nearest local who informs you on who they are and they largely earn their money from drug runs to South America, and they are a year round scourge on the island.

How much sympathy would you have for them then, knowing that they are fuelling a massive drug supply and are rubbing everyone else's face in it?

LOSTfan57

Feel for those poor people who hired these mules...they have made a serious loss
The mules were idiots. The people who hired them lost their cocaine

dundalkfc10

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Bit like cocaine then, highly addictive:D

Cocaine addictive, not unless ur dumb enough to use it every night you go out

Occasionally its fine

purplecow1977

keith16 wrote: »

For anyone that has sympathy for them, think of it this way.

Imagine you go to Ibiza, to whatever the "nice" part of the island is.

It's a bit more pricey but you are at least away from all the louts.

Now imagine a small group of those louts invading the nice part and with it, your peace and quiet. They are staying in or near the same hotel, and are generally being loud annoying cùnts with money to burn and are ruining your holiday.

You grumble to the barman / nearest local who informs you on who they are and they largely earn their money from drug runs to South America, and they are a year round scourge on the island.

How much sympathy would you have for them then, knowing that they are fuelling a massive drug supply and are rubbing everyone else's face in it?

I don't quite think that's what they were doing though. It was one mistake (I presume) that ended up wrong. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they had done it before.