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Avant Card & Financial ombudsman mediation

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  • 21-08-2013 12:47pm
    #1
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I had asked Avant Card to review the PPI insurance I was paying for the past few years, as I have been reviewed by AIB & PTSB, and receiving a refund from PTSB (not heard back from AIB yet).

    Avant Card have refused to accept I was mis-sold PPI, claiming I was told over the phone when applying for the card that it was optional etc....when in fact I didn't have a converstaion with them over the phone about it and my application was done via the EBS at the time, and it was done on an application form.

    Anyway, when I received their one and only letter saying I wasn't entitled to a refund, I passed it onto the Financial Ombudsman, who have now come back to me to say they are offering a mediation.
    How likely is it that Avant Card will accept this mediation offer? Neither of us are obliged to accept it, and if we don't, then the financial ombudsman will then investigate and make their decision. I have never had to go through anything like this, so I don't even know what to expect.

    What should I do next? accept mediation, and just see what Avant card do?


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    #2
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    I think you have to, would the other option be legal action?

    I think they have you with only one option.


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    #3
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    wmpdd3 wrote: »
    I think you have to, would the other option be legal action?

    I think they have you with only one option.

    the letter states:

    "participation in the mediation by the parties to a complain is entirely voluntary and to enable mediation to proceed, both parties must be willing to engage in the process...."

    they want an answer within 10 days whether or not I want to participate in mediation, otherwise the matter will then be referred to investigation.

    I can't see Avant Card agreeing to mediation?? I am sure I'm not the only person who has complained them either!


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    #4
    jethrothe2nd
    Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭jethrothe2nd


    Ciarrai76 wrote: »
    the letter states:

    "participation in the mediation by the parties to a complain is entirely voluntary and to enable mediation to proceed, both parties must be willing to engage in the process...."

    they want an answer within 10 days whether or not I want to participate in mediation, otherwise the matter will then be referred to investigation.

    I can't see Avant Card agreeing to mediation?? I am sure I'm not the only person who has complained them either!

    If I was you, I would be agreeing to it straight away without any concern about whether or not Avant Card agree to it. If it eventually ends up in court, then I am sure it will be looked upon favourably that you were willing to participate in mediation


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    #5
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    jethrothe2nd wrote: »
    If I was you, I would be agreeing to it straight away without any concern about whether or not Avant Card agree to it. If it eventually ends up in court, then I am sure it will be looked upon favourably that you were willing to participate in mediation

    true, I suppose I might as well just agree to it. It will look worse on them if they say no! Unfortunately it will mean time off work and cost of travelling to Dublin for me, but if it meant I got an outcome then it will be worth it.
    I am a bit nervous if it does go ahead though...I don't know if I am prepared for it! :o:confused:


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    #6
    Bren157
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Bren157


    I have been involved in your position before. Definitely accept the invitation but if Avant decline, it makes absolutely no difference to the outcome. Ombudsman will invesitgate based on facts just as in court but with more flexibility at finding a fair result rather than one party or other winning or getting off on a technicality. If your file shows EBS was the selling party then Avant could not be ringing you up. That will disprove Avant straight away and you now have a case. Go for it and dont hold back. These institutions prey on consumer fear of the unknown.


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    #7
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    Bren157 wrote: »
    I have been involved in your position before. Definitely accept the invitation but if Avant decline, it makes absolutely no difference to the outcome. Ombudsman will invesitgate based on facts just as in court but with more flexibility at finding a fair result rather than one party or other winning or getting off on a technicality. If your file shows EBS was the selling party then Avant could not be ringing you up. That will disprove Avant straight away and you now have a case. Go for it and dont hold back. These institutions prey on consumer fear of the unknown.

    thanks! I have accepted the offer of mediation. I kind of hope AvantCard don't accept, I'm not sure what to expect in a situation like that! bit scared now! lol


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    #8
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    Update:

    I just heard back from the financial ombudsman that AvantCard haven't responded to their mediation request, so they will not be doing a full investigation!

    Fingers crossed it goes in my favour now, especially as these guys basically ignored the financial ombudsman!


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    #9
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    Has anyone had a good outcome with a complaint they put in with the financial ombudsman against an institution?

    I've one in against MBNA/AVant card for missold PPI. I put it in back in July, and still waiting to hear back! Mediation was requested by the FO, but MBNA/AvantCard ignored their request and it went onto a full investigation. I was told in September I would hear back in about 6 - 8 weeks, so I've a bit left to wait!
    I have no idea how it is going to go. I wasn't asked for much from the FO, so I don't really know how they are investigating it!

    Anyone have any positive outcomes with them?? Just wondering whether the customer has it go their way often?!


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    #10
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    I did. I got my tracker back! But there is a serious waiting list now for the Ombudsman. Plus when they investigate they usually end up putting requests to the provider and then have to allow them time to respond, etc.

    BTW I would have skipped mediation if I was you!


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    #11
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    peteb2 wrote: »
    I did. I got my tracker back! But there is a serious waiting list now for the Ombudsman. Plus when they investigate they usually end up putting requests to the provider and then have to allow them time to respond, etc.

    BTW I would have skipped mediation if I was you!

    I didn't do mediation, MBNA ignored their request, so they didn't go ahead with it!


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    #12
    Mabelicious
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Mabelicious


    Ok,we'll that's pretty much exactly as I'd expect these cowboys to do. Was there any further correspondence on your claim?


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    #13
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    I'm waiting to hear back from the Ombudsman. They sent them a letter (which I received a copy of), with a lot of questions for AvantCard/MBNA!! I think they had 20 days to respond from the date of that letter, which was about 2 weeks ago I think. So I suppose I will hear back in the next few weeks now, hopefully! God only knows what AvantCard are going to respond with!


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    #14
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    Update!

    I received a letter from the Financial ombudsman, which enclosed AvantCard's response & documents.

    They are still claiming I applied for the credit card over the phone, however, they cannot give proof of this, as they no longer have recordings due to time elapsed (it was only 3 years ago!!). I have absolutely no recollection of speaking to anyone about applying for a credit card, I know I did it online!! They also have not enclosed the changes they made to their T&C's for PPI in 2011, which I, thankfully, have a copy of and it clearly says where my personal situation was excluded from being able to claim....which is the same exclusion that PTSB had and refunded me for!

    I have now sent copies of these to the FO and gave my response, so fingers crossed I get a good outcome...although I really am not holding out a lot of hope :(


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    #15
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    It looks like Avant card's files are in a heap,they have so much wrong information on my account, its kinda frightening. Hope things start moving for you.


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    #16
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    I am not holding out much hope of having the outcome of this in my favour. The only thing I can hope for is that the F.Ombudsman find that their conduct of business is not acceptable. I just get the feeling I'm wasting my time here. AvantCard are adament they are in the right! Amazing how they claim I applied for the card over the phone, yet can't provide the recording! They keep showing a screen shot of the application details....no idea how that proves a phone call, of course they would have a computer record, that's obvious! So glad I cancelled my a/c with them, worst company I've ever dealt with! Good riddence to them.


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    #17
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    Surely the balance of proof falls to them not you.

    To me they have to prove that you were sold this over the phone...with a recording anything else is just a possibility.

    Its like they are trying to prove that they didnt 'sell' the card at all . Amazing when you think of the way you sign up for anything now online and tick boxes to beat the band.


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    #18
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    wmpdd3 wrote: »
    Surely the balance of proof falls to them not you.

    To me they have to prove that you were sold this over the phone...with a recording anything else is just a possibility.

    Its like they are trying to prove that they didnt 'sell' the card at all . Amazing when you think of the way you sign up for anything now online and tick boxes to beat the band.

    they come across so cocky in their responses too, like oh well it was your fault if you took out PPI that wasn't for you etc! Why do they think I should just accept their word for it that I applied over the phone! I have never applied for a credit card over the phone! I don't know why they can't prove it, it was only 3 years ago! I thought all records have to be kept on file for at least 6 years??
    If I did speak to them, and I just can't remember, then why can't they prove it!? I am just hoping the F.Ombudsman has the sense to tell them this, but I don't know how its going to go. I have no experience with them, nor do I know anyone who has put in a complaint through them. Its taking so long to even get this far, its so frustrating!


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    #19
    1moreyr
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭1moreyr


    When I cancelled my PPI the company was terrible to deal with. I was told that if anything happened to me that the debt would be transferred to my next of kin which is my daughter who was 4 at the time. I didn't believe what they said but talk about putting on the guilt.


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    #20
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    1moreyr wrote: »
    When I cancelled my PPI the company was terrible to deal with. I was told that if anything happened to me that the debt would be transferred to my next of kin which is my daughter who was 4 at the time. I didn't believe what they said but talk about putting on the guilt.

    that's unreal, they haven't a clue! I am really hoping the ombudsman doesn't find in their favour, the way the do business leaves a lot to be desired!


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    #21
    theenergy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭theenergy


    ok guys

    we got a reply from mbna saying that no we would not be getting a refund.

    what is the next step ??

    go legal ?

    Financial ombusman?

    they are unreal to deal with .. that is mbna


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    #22
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    theenergy wrote: »
    ok guys

    we got a reply from mbna saying that no we would not be getting a refund.

    what is the next step ??

    go legal ?

    Financial ombusman?

    they are unreal to deal with .. that is mbna

    I'm going through the ombudsman, but its really dragged out and taking months. I am waiting to hear back from the ombudsman on their decision, and AvantCard have been smart ar*ses to say the least!
    Over Christmas, I received a letter from MBNA in the UK, to say they are doing reviews of PPI sold in 2008 while they were in IReland, and I am part of that review! Now I'm totally confused, as AvantCard here say they are not refunding for PPI etc. I didn't pass this onto the Ombudsman as it was outside their timeframe to get back to them with any final information. It does say on the MBNA uk letter to get onto AvantCard in Ireland should I have any queries....like I'd bother, they are of no use! Its strange though, as I had to ask AvantCard to check into the PPI and they were so uninterested about it when I did, but now the UK MBNA are doing reviews!
    NO idea what is going on!


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    #23
    theenergy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭theenergy


    Ciarrai76 wrote: »
    I'm going through the ombudsman, but its really dragged out and taking months. I am waiting to hear back from the ombudsman on their decision, and AvantCard have been smart ar*ses to say the least!
    Over Christmas, I received a letter from MBNA in the UK, to say they are doing reviews of PPI sold in 2008 while they were in IReland, and I am part of that review! Now I'm totally confused, as AvantCard here say they are not refunding for PPI etc. I didn't pass this onto the Ombudsman as it was outside their timeframe to get back to them with any final information. It does say on the MBNA uk letter to get onto AvantCard in Ireland should I have any queries....like I'd bother, they are of no use! Its strange though, as I had to ask AvantCard to check into the PPI and they were so uninterested about it when I did, but now the UK MBNA are doing reviews!
    NO idea what is going on!

    maybe going to a solicitor is the way forward?


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    #24
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    Still no decision on this from the ombudsman! I did receive a letter last week though and they said they had asked avantcard for more info & included their correspondence! They had asked avant card for something & had a second letter reminding them about it!

    I queried why MBNA had written to inform me I was part of a ppi review, and avant card responded saying they had to do this and I would hear back in April. This is baffling seeing as avantcard have told me I wasn't missold ppi & now saying I'm part of their review.....that they already did!?? Total contradiction from what I can see!
    Will wait for their further update now. It's dragged out so long now though!
    Them and AIB!


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