Dublin Half Mara - 21st Sept

drquirky

Scifo wrote: »

My heart and sympathy goes out to the family of the person who passed away. It's a shocking thing to happen and I think there's a danger that it might get written off as one of those things, could happen to anyone type rationalising.

I've been reading the comments and they lead me to suspect something that I felt after I crossed the line, that something unusual went on yesterday, which I'm struggling to understand.

I was at the doctor on Friday and put on antibiotics for a mild chest infection. Decided not to start on them until after the race yesterday as I had targeted it months ago as a key session, doing 7.5 miles beforehand at a steady pace before picking it up during the race to bring it over 20 for the day.

I understand that some people will feel that this was foolhardy, but I had been training well for 3 weeks beforehand with the same problem and the doctor gave me the go-ahead.

Felt strong for 9 miles during the race, but when the clouds cleared and I hit the 10th mile I started to feel the pain. I had gone out fast in anticipation of slowing on the hills and this is exactly what happened. The internal conversations started, don't quit your goal, stop looking for excuses with the hills, heat and chest. The target time was still in reach just about, but it took a tough effort, plus the help of the 1:30 pacers who passed me on the hills, to get me there. I'd like to thank the guys for their encouragement, I'd definitely have let my central governor take over otherwise. The last 3 miles were hell and I collapsed when I crossed the line.

Luckily this has happened me once before and I immediately realised it was not serious, it was just my legs buckled as soon as I stopped sprinting just over the line. A lady came over to me and told me to get up asap as I was in the way, which I probably was to be fair, but I wasn't on the ground by choice. Thankfully a man appeared and asked me if I was ok shortly afterwards and I told him that I was ok, just the legs had gone.

Got up and staggered to get the goody bag and then I realised that I was in bits. Had run two mins faster in the Rock n Roll and didn't feel like this. I ran Clontarf in the heat this year and didn't feel like this. Ran Berlin in the heat in 2009 and didn't feel like this. Ran the Wicklow Way Trail this winter in the cold and didn't feel like this. In fact, I rarely recall feeling like this and it seemed to be down to the last 3 miles. I sat down for a while and relaxed until I felt like I could walk back to the car after about 15 mins.

I think a lot of people might have gone out too fast with the cooler temperatures caused by the cloud cover and the downhill start, looking to get some time in the bank for the hilly miles. I certainly did. I took on water at all stations including 10 miles, and this caused a shortness of breath as it typically does whilst you struggle to drink and run. I wasn't wearing a hrm, but I imagine my heart rate temporarily spiked at this stage. The difference this time was you were straight into the military hill after that water stop and I never really recovered normal breathing after that.

I think it's important to try and understand what happened yesterday, especially because someone lost their life. We don't know how many more people were dangerously close to that level of distress without knowing it but in all my years running it seemed that there was an atypical amount of people who required assistance.

Now we can instantly dismiss it as a black swan event, but I think it is important to solicit feedback, especially from experienced runners, to establish if something else was going on. It is entirely possible that the tragedy is clouding my senses, but we are foolish if we don't ask the questions.

In no way am I suggesting that the organisation had anything to do with this, as I think it was as it has ever been for this series i.e. spot on. I just think there may have been a perfect storm of conditions yesterday that meant the risks were higher, and I think I probably got caught out with a false sense of security with the initial cloudy conditions and too fast a start.....thoughts?

Yup. Pretty silly running w/ a chest infection and holding off on the antibiotics.
For a bit of context, US researchers have studied all 11 million people who completed a marathon in the USA from 2000-2011. Of this huge number, there were 53 cardiac arrests and 41 deaths in the marathon or immediately following it. I'd be fairly confident that if you took 11 million people randomly over any given several hour period, you'd come out w/ similar stats.

This was an absolutely terrible tragedy but lets not start questioning the safety of running. it is an incredibly safe sport unless a) you have an underlying condition or b) you ignore things like real illness/ hydration etc etc...

Cartman78

pac_man wrote: »

I know its a bit off topic from the race but I think its important. When people are saying you should get yourself checked, what do I ask my GP or what do I get checked for?

Ask GP about cardiac screening and where/when you can get this done.

Alternatively, contact your health insurer and enquire what services they can provide/recommend.

My company had Heartaid on-site recently, so had the full check done. Have heard of a few people (including one marathon runner) who were sent for follow up consultations following the initial screening.

Oops69

This was a sudden unexpected death and as such will mandate a coroners inquest in due course , I wish people would stop the idle speculation out of respect for his family

drquirky

Oops69 wrote: »

This was a sudden unexpected death and as such will mandate a coroners inquest in due course , I wish people would stop the idle speculation out of respect for his family

Hasn't actually been any speculation that I can see in the thread? We are runners- these are important issues to discuss- I actually think that the thread has been really respectful and informative.

Kurt Godel

drquirky wrote: »

Yup. Pretty silly running w/ a chest infection and holding off on the antibiotics.
For a bit of context, US researchers have studied all 11 million people who completed a marathon in the USA from 2000-2011. Of this huge number, there were 53 cardiac arrests and 41 deaths in the marathon or immediately following it. I'd be fairly confident that if you took 11 million people randomly over any given several hour period, you'd come out w/ similar stats.

This was an absolutely terrible tragedy but lets not start questioning the safety of running. it is an incredibly safe sport unless a) you have an underlying condition or b) you ignore things like real illness/ hydration etc etc...

Absolutely, the risk of having a heart attack remains the same whether this poor unfortunate had chosen not to run on Saturday, and how many would then be worried enough to have an ECG/health screening? (not to suggest thats a bad thing though)

Here's the NEJM article that drquirky mentioned- argue the science all you want, but individual cases do not change your personal risk.

Here's a RW discussion with the reports author Aaron Baggish.

plodder

Personally, I think regular GP checkups are the way to go. They can look at all the risk factors and advise whether more specialised tests are needed. High tech health screening isn't always needed and can be expensive imho.

Oops69

drquirky wrote: »

Hasn't actually been any speculation that I can see in the thread? We are runners- these are important issues to discuss- I actually think that the thread has been really respectful and informative.

I will record that I disagree with you no more

cloneslad

Oops69 wrote: »

This was a sudden unexpected death and as such will mandate a coroners inquest in due course , I wish people would stop the idle speculation out of respect for his family

drquirky wrote: »

Hasn't actually been any speculation that I can see in the thread? We are runners- these are important issues to discuss- I actually think that the thread has been really respectful and informative.

Oops69 wrote: »

I will record that I disagree with you no more

I can see where you are coming from Oops69, but I think it's more that a sudden death occurring at the race has caused people to look further into getting checks done on themselves.

Whatever happened to the young man that passed away is terrible, the conversation has now moved on to ensuring / educating others on medical checks to ensure we do all we can to lower any risks we have on ourselves.

cb102

Many thanks to the 90min pacers on the Half on Saturday, especially on the hills.
Ye helped my achieve my sub 90 goal for my first half.
thanks

HTCJoeSoap

Didn't get to run on Saturday, but was shocked to bits when I heard about the young guy who died. RIP. Us runners are all a family. I run daily in the Phoenix Park and I'll be thinking of him every time I go to run up Military Road (what we locally call the S-bends). Its just an idea, but I think the organisers should rename the Dublin Half-Marathon in honour of his memory or organise a race or something at a later date in memory of him.

HTCJoeSoap

And for those who might be interested - here's a link to where you can get an Exercise ECG done.

http://www.dublinhealthscreening.ie/Exercise_Electrocardiogram.asp

randomCluster

cb102 wrote: »

Many thanks to the 90min pacers on the Half on Saturday, especially on the hills.
Ye helped my achieve my sub 90 goal for my first half.
thanks

Well done, especially your first half and the day that was in it.

I set off with the 90min pacers with the best intentions. I clocked a 1:32 in rock n roll hm and have been training well. After 3 miles I found it too fast and dropped back to 7:20 min p/m. The heat made things really tough for me in the 2nd half and I let myself think too negatively. Finished in 1:36. Learnt a valuable lesson about race strategy and making a readjustment.

I thought the Kyber came a bit too soon and found the pack a bit too tight. Otherwise it was a scenic but challenging course.

Fair play to the organisers, volunteers, Guards, and St. John's Ambulance service on what was a very testing day for them.

My sincerest condolences to the family of the young man who passed away at the top of military hill. I passed by and saw a lady runner in a purple and black top attempting CPR on him. Another lady runner was also present trying to comfort him. Having no medical experience or background I considered it best to keep moving. I said a few prayers for the next mile or so and took it easy for the last 2 miles.

tunguska

pac_man wrote: »

I know its a bit off topic from the race but I think its important. When people are saying you should get yourself checked, what do I ask my GP or what do I get checked for?

Best test would be a CT scan on your heart. ECG just isn't good enough. Plus cholesterol is not as good an indicator of heart trouble as getting your Homocysteine levels checked. A lot of people have high Cholesterol but a low H value and are fine and then theres people with low Cholesterol but a high H value who have massive heart attacks.

shoottherunner

cb102 wrote: »

Many thanks to the 90min pacers on the Half on Saturday, especially on the hills.
Ye helped my achieve my sub 90 goal for my first half.
thanks

Also wanted to thank the 90 min pacers for getting me over the line (with ten seconds to spare) for my first sub 90. Stayed about ten metres behind them for the whole race and still had something left in the engine for the hills as a result.

HelenAnne

HTCJoeSoap wrote: »

And for those who might be interested - here's a link to where you can get an Exercise ECG done.

http://www.dublinhealthscreening.ie/Exercise_Electrocardiogram.asp

I know people have sort of answered this, but I was wondering if there are any standard guidelines etc - when you see advice that people should be 'screened' before a marathon, what's best - a stress test / exercise ECG, or a GP health check where they do bloods, cholesterol, resting ECG etc?

The first seems more exercise-related, but would the second reveal (potentially) a broader spectrum of problems?

Has anyone ever been checked out before a marathon and if so what did it involve?

eldiva

HelenAnne wrote: »

I know people have sort of answered this, but I was wondering if there are any standard guidelines etc - when you see advice that people should be 'screened' before a marathon, what's best - a stress test / exercise ECG, or a GP health check where they do bloods, cholesterol, resting ECG etc?

The first seems more exercise-related, but would the second reveal (potentially) a broader spectrum of problems?

Has anyone ever been checked out before a marathon and if so what did it involve?

I would recommend the exercise ECG. A resting ECG and bloods may show any precongenital disposition but the exercise ECG allows the practioner to see if there are any risk factors/abnormalities when the heart is under stress. AAI should provide a cardiac screening form for any major event like the half marathon and marathon just like the GAA and FAI have done to the local clubs

vintagecosmos

HTCJoeSoap wrote: »

And for those who might be interested - here's a link to where you can get an Exercise ECG done.

http://www.dublinhealthscreening.ie/Exercise_Electrocardiogram.asp

I contacted them and they said they dont do them. They said I need a referral from my GP to go to VIncents or Blackrock...:(

Laois_Man

RIP William

http://www.thestar.ie/star/devastation-over-death-of-runner-in-half-marathon/

SB5

Laois_Man wrote: »

RIP William

http://www.thestar.ie/star/devastation-over-death-of-runner-in-half-marathon/

RIP William....a day I will never forget!

tunguska

Laois_Man wrote: »

RIP William

http://www.thestar.ie/star/devastation-over-death-of-runner-in-half-marathon/

Out of morbid curiosity I searched his name for the Frank Duffy race a few weeks ago and he ran 66mins. 32 mins for the 5 miler aswell so he was of a decent standard and not somebody who was racing for the first time.
Its crazy how that can happen, I wonder if he had any history at all with his heart or if there were any warning signs in the lead up to the race.

ooter

ran by the spot where that lad passed away on my run today,a group of people where there who looked like family and friends,they looked devastated.
RIP.