Equines and new deciduous woodland

Chisler2

What action do I need to take to prepare land which has been 'poached' and churned during the wet spring by horses and donkeys to receive oak and rowan saplings in autumn? The fields slope to the south and the lower ones are wetter. Is there any point in cutting drainage channels across the length of the paddocks or just along the edges?

crackcrack30

Are you signing up for forestry grants? are you getting in a forestry mgt company.? if so they will survey for free and advise you on all concerns..

Chisler2

No - self-funded and planted myself. The owner of the beasts is interested in renting some of the paddocks so they can continue to pasture there. I wondered what disadvantages this might have in terms of structure of what is poor, thin soil.

periodictable

Horses are great to clean land, but they will poach it very badly esp if it is wet.

crackcrack30

If its more than an acre, and you have concerns over soil types ect I would seek professional advice....IMO:o......what do you want from the plantation in 10-20-30yrs?

Chisler2

Thanks Perio and CC.......that's what I thought as far as hooved beasts are concerned. The fields were well churned up earlier this year.

Though the smallholding of 11 acres is in the mountains at a height of around 1,500 ft and only about 3 Km from the shoreline it's in the lee of a hill and south facing and I have great hopes, having now visited Tourmakeady and the Old Head woodland.

fits

Why wouldn't you apply for grant? I would definitely get professional advice. Call someone like greenbelt to have a look at it for you. They won't charge for consultation

Oldtree

Badly poached soil can take up to 15 years to recover the structure and texture of the soil. The recovery of the structure and texture can only come about by weathering and worm action. (will try to find the study on this i read from the 90's).

i had a similar issue (poached land and no grants) I decided to give the fields 5 years to recover as best they could, no amimals nor grass cutting allowing them to go wild, and then to plant 3 foot willow cuttings at 2 meter spacings. I am thinking more short rotation (10 year) firewood and the plentiful willow roots will (i hope) overcome the lack of structure and texture of the soil. I did now weedkill nor fertilise the site and the willow cuttings are from my own collected local provenance willow.

Chisler2

Oldtree - Is it that the willow-saplings alone (without digging drainage channels) will dry out the fields and hold what little soil there is. Willow is OK in poor soils but would I need to lay seaweed and shell into those areas where oak might thrive? I'm interested - independently of the woodland - in traditional building methods and materials and would love to set up a lime-kiln to provide the materials for lime-mortar. Would the lime produced be a useful additive for some species?

The fields are very badly poached. The lad who sold me the holding has been pasturing donkeys there for a decade and asked if he could continue to rent some land to continue to do so. It sounds as if that is incompatible with woodland establishment.

Oldtree

They are willow cuttings pushed into the ground on a damp but not frozen day in winter that then root and seem to be doing well so far. no prep work.

I chose willow as it is a damp site and can flood in the winter.

As a suggestion I would look around in your area to see what is doing well before deciding on what to plant and think on the why I am planting too. Look for similar sites locally and go from there.

Most soils have sufficient nutrients for most trees generally speaking and fertilizer addition would depend on your management aims and criteria. As for the lime kiln lime I don't know but it strikes me as being very concentrated and if you already live in an area of limestone it may be of no benifit to add it.

Donkeys and woodland establishment are incompatable imo unless there is sturdy fencing seperating the two.

crackcrack30

Could the ground be worse than any ground where cattle were out wintered in a small area?

The guy who sold it to you appears to want his cake and eat it.......if you don't want donkeys in don't feel obliged to rent it to him...

Chisler2

You've hit the nail on the head, Cracker! A polite refusal seems to be in order, then turn my attention to years of getting the structure back into the trampled fields!

Oldtree that's great advice. The holding is near Westport, and the Old Head oak woodland is an example of what can be done there......though mine is a tiny humble version. Along the bohereen leading up to mine, a number number of wetter fields have avenues of trees (haven't got into them to check the species and saw them in spring pre-leaf) which are not stunted, vigorous and healthy. In what was the kitchen garden behind the cottage there are three ash and three sycamore.

Oldtree

Chisler2 wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head, Cracker! A polite refusal seems to be in order, then turn my attention to years of getting the structure back into the trampled fields!

Oldtree that's great advice. The holding is near Westport, and the Old Head oak woodland is an example of what can be done there......though mine is a tiny humble version. Along the bohereen leading up to mine, a number number of wetter fields have avenues of trees (haven't got into them to check the species and saw them in spring pre-leaf) which are not stunted, vigorous and healthy. In what was the kitchen garden behind the cottage there are three ash and three sycamore.

Seaside is a difficult site to begin with. If the ash and sycamore are doing well then that may be the way to go, but ash cannot be moved around the country at the mo (I use my own ash seedlings/whips from my wood as well as my own Sycamore seelings/whips. but the sycamore has not taken well this year whereas the ash has done very well on my adjacent fields. 3 different Willow and poplar doing v well,

Chisler2

Glad to hear your ash is safe, OldTree, given the worries earlier this year. This little windbreak around the house gets the full brunt of the Atlantic gales but the garden has deep rich soil and they are well-rooted and sturdy.......about 30 years old (my guess - I'm new to all of this).

Oldtree

you may need to invest in a plastic mesh windbreak to get them off to a good start if you are so exposed :eek:

Chisler2

I haven't been up there in winter yet but the cottage is in the lee of the mountain and the land slopes steeply away to the south, so there is micro-climate (she hopes!!!) but the plastic mesh protection would give the babies a bit more protection.

Chisler2

Oldtree wrote: »

Seaside is a difficult site to begin with. If the ash and sycamore are doing well then that may be the way to go, but ash cannot be moved around the country at the mo (I use my own ash seedlings/whips from my wood as well as my own Sycamore seelings/whips. but the sycamore has not taken well this year whereas the ash has done very well on my adjacent fields. 3 different Willow and poplar doing v well,

Oldtree - I want to get something - however elementary - in this autumn and thought to plant a dozen willow (to start a coppice to provide fuel) and a Ribes hedge (to provide early blossom for the bees) in one of the lower more sheltered paddocks. Do I just go to a local nursery and buy 3' whips and bare-root ribes plants?