Advice on Feral Cats

pookiesboo

I am looking for your advice. For the past 7 or 8 months there has been a growing number of feral cats in the area where I live. I live in a row of terraced houses and behind our houses there is a local primary school.
Since building started on an extension to the school since the start of this year, there has been stray cats coming into our gardens, there must have been a colony of them in the area where building began. I have now counted about 20 cats young and younger in my back garden. Some of my neighbours and I felt sorry for the first couple at the start of the year and fed them but now they are breeding more and more and it is out of control.
I live on a busy street and am worried they will cause an accident to themselves or drivers because they have started crossing the road.
I contacted my local KSPCA but they said they cant help because they are stray cats and cant take in stray cats. They suggested I stopped feeding them, which I did but they started crying outside the kitchen windows and the back door so I and a few other neighbours started feeding them again.

I also contacted another well known animal charity (dont know if I can say their names) who have failed to respond to me despite me sending them emails and phoning them. Another welfare group said they could take the kittens a few months back, when I brought them down to their adoption day, it was discovered they had ringworm and they wouldnt take them. I have ended up buying antiobiotics, worm doses and flea treatments for cats that are not mine. They are quite tame (most of them) at this stage, well to me anyway because they are used to me.
I have also used the rehoming section on the boards thread a few months ago but to no avail.
I have three rescue cats myself (all neutered) so I cant take anymore in.
Can anybody offer me some advice.

kylith

See if you can get in touch with a group who will trap, neuter, and release the cats. It won't do anything for the immediate population but will stop them breeding. The only way to stop them hanging around is to stop feeding them. If they cry you just have to ignore them. They will not go away while they are getting food.

pookiesboo

kylith wrote: »

See if you can get in touch with a group who will trap, neuter, and release the cats. It won't do anything for the immediate population but will stop them breeding. The only way to stop them hanging around is to stop feeding them. If they cry you just have to ignore them. They will not go away while they are getting food.

I know I have to toughen up and stop feeding them but I feel so sorry for them! A couple of my neighbours feed them too. There are a lot of housing estates inmy area so they will only shift off to one of them and someone else will start feeding them (I cant be the only softie) so wont the problem keep going on?
As for the trap, neuter and release would I have to pay for that or who pays for it?

boomerang

If the caregiver stops feeding, won't the cats just go away? Answer


Why don't feeding bans work to eliminate feral cats? Answer


Feeding bans are an ineffective and cruel approach to feral cats. Why?


OP I suggest posting on the Feral Cats Ireland facebook page for suggestions, advice and support.

pookiesboo

boomerang wrote: »

If the caregiver stops feeding, won't the cats just go away? Answer


Why don't feeding bans work to eliminate feral cats? Answer


Feeding bans are an ineffective and cruel approach to feral cats. Why?


OP I suggest posting on the Feral Cats Ireland facebook page for suggestions, advice and support.

I've just gotten off the phone from another welfare group and hopefully I'll be able to get help from them!

loveisdivine

pookiesboo wrote: »

I know I have to toughen up and stop feeding them but I feel so sorry for them! A couple of my neighbours feed them too. There are a lot of housing estates inmy area so they will only shift off to one of them and someone else will start feeding them (I cant be the only softie) so wont the problem keep going on?
As for the trap, neuter and release would I have to pay for that or who pays for it?

Theres nothing 'tough' about letting hungry animals go without food. Its just cruel.
You're also not a softie, you are a caring resposible individual and kudos for what you are already doing for these cats.

I too recommend posting on the feral cats ireland facebook page. Getting them neutered would be the best possible thing for now.

pookiesboo

loveisdivine wrote: »

Theres nothing 'tough' about letting hungry animals go without food. Its just cruel.
You're also not a softie, you are a caring resposible individual and kudos for what you are already doing for these cats.

I too recommend posting on the feral cats ireland facebook page. Getting them neutered would be the best possible thing for now.

Thanks! We've been overrun with cats for months now so I'll put up with it, its just the neverending breeding that I want to put an end to. Keep ye posted!:)

mitosis

1 Stop feeding the cats - someone else will do it and they will move there.

2 Secure your perimeter. Either put something short and pointy along the tops of your walls, or plant thorny bushes along the walls.

3 Plant lavender - they hate the smell. Also sprinkle vinegar around the walls while everything else is establishing

4 Stop feeding the cats

boomerang

Mitosis, if you have a quick look at the links I posted, you'll see that "feed bans" don't work. Not only that, they're downright cruel. You wouldn't do it to a dog.

I've referred the OP to the Feral Cats Ireland page to get help and advice from people involved with feral cat care. Going on the responses so far I don't think she will find the right information here on A&P I.

Good on you pookiesboo, you're going about things the right way. I only wish I was nearer or I'd help more. Your only obstacle is going to be securing the money to neuter the cats, but it sounds like you have kind neighbours that wish the cats no harm and that means you are off to a great start. You will find the folk on the Feral Cats Ireland page very supportive and if you can outline the number of cats involved and take some photos of them to share on the page, the more people will take notice.

pookiesboo

mitosis wrote: »

1 Stop feeding the cats - someone else will do it and they will move there.

2 Secure your perimeter. Either put something short and pointy along the tops of your walls, or plant thorny bushes along the walls.

3 Plant lavender - they hate the smell. Also sprinkle vinegar around the walls while everything else is establishing

4 Stop feeding the cats

But then its someone elses problem and someone else will be feeding them or if not they will just starve to death or someone might come across them who isnt a 'cat lover' for want of a better way of putting it. I'm not ecstatic at the fact theres so many cats but I'd rather a more humane way of dealing with the problem. Thanks though.:)

pookiesboo

boomerang wrote: »

Mitosis, if you have a quick look at the links I posted, you'll see that "feed bans" don't work. Not only that, they're downright cruel. You wouldn't do it to a dog.

I've referred the OP to the Feral Cats Ireland page to get help and advice from people involved with feral cat care. Going on the responses so far I don't think she will find the right information here on A&P I.

Good on you pookiesboo, you're going about things the right way. I only wish I was nearer or I'd help more. Your only obstacle is going to be securing the money to neuter the cats, but it sounds like you have kind neighbours that wish the cats no harm and that means you are off to a great start. You will find the folk on the Feral Cats Ireland page very supportive and if you can outline the number of cats involved and take some photos of them to share on the page, the more people will take notice.

I cant let them starve, its not their fault they are in this predicament and hopefully I might get some sort of deal with a vet if I am to pay for them to get neutered. Thanks for your posts!

Scrag

Feral cats will fend for themselves if you stop feeding them . They thrive very well in feral colonies. A little bit of water tossed at them will chase them. It does not hurt them and they don't like a good soaking.

kylith

boomerang wrote: »

Mitosis, if you have a quick look at the links I posted, you'll see that "feed bans" don't work. Not only that, they're downright cruel. You wouldn't do it to a dog.

I've referred the OP to the Feral Cats Ireland page to get help and advice from people involved with feral cat care. Going on the responses so far I don't think she will find the right information here on A&P I.

Good on you pookiesboo, you're going about things the right way. I only wish I was nearer or I'd help more. Your only obstacle is going to be securing the money to neuter the cats, but it sounds like you have kind neighbours that wish the cats no harm and that means you are off to a great start. You will find the folk on the Feral Cats Ireland page very supportive and if you can outline the number of cats involved and take some photos of them to share on the page, the more people will take notice.

But the OP cannot be expected to feed and care for two dozen cats that aren't even hers in the first place. She has no responsibility to look after them, and no-one should expect her to shoulder the financial burden of it.

People on here are always talking about what good hunters cats are. Hunting is obviously what they were doing before the OP and her neighbours began feeding them, and that is what they will go back to doing if the free food dries up.

boomerang

I'm not going to make endless counter-arguments here about the survival skills of feral cats whose numbers have been supported by people feeding them and who are then left to fend for themselves. I haven't the heart or the energy at the moment and the information is out there for anyone curious enough to open the links I've posted. I also don't want to derail the thread.

I'm not suggesting the onus is on the OP to bear the cost of neutering them. She simply cares enough to want to help them, and I support her in that. Typically you are only talking about a handful of cats. Personally, I believe people that feed ferals and strays have a collective responsibility towards the cats, as they become dependent on them. That extends to providing appropriate veterinary care, including neutering. Groups such as ourselves can help with that. But look, if you want to open this up into a discussion on feral cats generally, let's do that in a separate thread.

mitosis

boomerang wrote: »

Mitosis, if you have a quick look at the links I posted, you'll see that "feed bans" don't work. Not only that, they're downright cruel. You wouldn't do it to a dog.

I've referred the OP to the Feral Cats Ireland page to get help and advice from people involved with feral cat care. Going on the responses so far I don't think she will find the right information here on A&P I.

Good on you pookiesboo, you're going about things the right way. I only wish I was nearer or I'd help more. Your only obstacle is going to be securing the money to neuter the cats, but it sounds like you have kind neighbours that wish the cats no harm and that means you are off to a great start. You will find the folk on the Feral Cats Ireland page very supportive and if you can outline the number of cats involved and take some photos of them to share on the page, the more people will take notice.

Others are feeding the cats, as stated in the OP. So they are not being starved, thus no cruelty.

mitosis

pookiesboo wrote: »

But then its someone elses problem and someone else will be feeding them or if not they will just starve to death or someone might come across them who isnt a 'cat lover' for want of a better way of putting it. I'm not ecstatic at the fact theres so many cats but I'd rather a more humane way of dealing with the problem. Thanks though.:)

OK, but why make it your problem? You already said other neighbours are feeding them, so you won't harm them if you stop.

boomerang

But that also means the strategy won't work. She will still have a rising number of unowned cats in her immediate neighbourhood that will suffer more and succumb to disease as there'll be less food to go around. The most humane and most effective answer here is to bite the bullet, get the help of a TNR group, health-check and neuter the existing cats so the population can't increase and the numbers will gradually fall through attrition. Meanwhile the kind-hearted folk who enjoy feeding the cats can continue to do so. The cats will put on more condition once neutered and will also stop caterwauling, spraying, fighting and other anti-social feline behaviours that give ferals a bad name.

mitosis

boomerang wrote: »

But that also means the strategy won't work. She will still have a rising number of unowned cats in her immediate neighbourhood that will suffer more and succumb to disease as there'll be less food to go around. The most humane and most effective answer here is to bite the bullet, get the help of a TNR group, health-check and neuter the existing cats so the population can't increase and the numbers will gradually fall through attrition. Meanwhile the kind-hearted folk who enjoy feeding the cats can continue to do so. The cats will put on more condition once neutered and will also stop caterwauling, spraying, fighting and other anti-social feline behaviours that give ferals a bad name.

This bit I take small issue with. Why would the numbers fall? The argument against removing them altogether is that other cats will move in to replace them up to what the area can sustain. The same will happen if they are lost through "Attrition"

Tranceypoo

The numbers will fall because there will be no more breeding because they've been neutered and spayed, if they're not the numbers will increase, increase and increase.

Agree with Boomerang on this one, OP I'm helping a friend out with a feral cat issue at the moment and Feral Cats Ireland and the Cat Rescue group for our County have been very helpful, I am making a donation (all I can afford) but it won't cover the vets costs, my understanding is they won't expect you to pay the full amount of 5/10/20 cats being spayed or neutered (unless you can afford it of course, but most people couldn't), they will work with you and help and if you can make a donation that would be great.

kylith

Tranceypoo wrote: »

The numbers will fall because there will be no more breeding because they've been neutered and spayed, if they're not the numbers will increase, increase and increase.

But I've heard it said that if you trap and euthanise feral cats en mass that other cats will just move in. What's to stop other cats from moving in when the current colony begins to die off?

Tranceypoo

kylith wrote: »

But I've heard it said that if you trap and euthanise feral cats en mass that other cats will just move in. What's to stop other cats from moving in when the current colony begins to die off?

They don't trap and euthanise, they trap, neuter(or spay) and release them back to where they were

kylith

Yes, I know that. I am specifically talking about previous conversations on this forum where people have argued for and against the euthanisation of feral cats.

If the argument is that T&E (trapping & euthenasia) means that new cats will move in to a vacated area, and that this is a reason why T&E is not a feasible means of control, why would new cats not move in to an area where the TNR cats have begun to die from regular feral causes of death (disease, predation, RTA)?

pookiesboo

Thanks for all yer replies. I dont have the money to neuter them all myself (far from it) but could contribute towards each cat. The problem with "stop feeding them and the neighbours will" is that we a are a row of terraced houses and they go through each back garden on the wall along the back of our houses or else just through the hedges, they really have the run of the place.
Also the fact that we have been feeding them for a while is that most of them have become quite tame and could be rehomed but no one is interested in fully grown cats.
I'm having the same argument with my fiance at home over it that ye are having, he says that its not up to us to be feeding them or neutering them but I'm kind of the mindset that it will keep going on and on until they are spayed. Im waiting for a Feral Cats Ireland to get back to me (thanks for giving me their info btw!) and also a local welfare group that said they will try to help me, i'm not sure if that means financially or what. Thanks for all the advice!:)

boomerang

kylith wrote: »

Yes, I know that. I am specifically talking about previous conversations on this forum where people have argued for and against the euthanisation of feral cats.

If the argument is that T&E (trapping & euthenasia) means that new cats will move in to a vacated area, and that this is a reason why T&E is not a feasible means of control, why would new cats not move in to an area where the TNR cats have begun to die from regular feral causes of death (disease, predation, RTA)?

Once feral cats are neutered and basic provisions for their needs are met, they have the same expected lifespan of any owned, pet cat that has access to the outdoors. We look after neutered colonies that have been in existence for ten or twelve years and the 'foundation' cats are in their teens. The attrition rate is very, very gradual, and in the meantime, the existence of a stable colony acts as a deterrent against other strays or ferals moving into the immediate area.

I've learned from experience that once you start taking a lot of individuals out of the colony to relocate them elsewhere (or have them put down) it totally disrupts the social order within the group and that is when you have opportunistic lone individuals (un-neutered feral toms whose range encompasses the colony's territory, or stray cats that are ranging across multiple territories because they are chased away) coming in and adding to the problem.

But really, I'm tired of advocating TNR to folks who really are just spectactors and don't care too much about the issue on a welfare basis. It's been done to death in other threads, no need to resurrect the debate here, where the OP is looking for practical advice.

anniehoo

boomerang wrote: »

But really, I'm tired of advocating TNR to folks who really are just spectactors and don't care too much about the issue on a welfare basis. It's been done to death in other threads, no need to resurrect the debate here, where the OP is looking for practical advice.

Don't get tired Boomerang. I for one have learned A LOT from your links above today (and in numerous threads).If I am learning, you can GUARANTEE you can multiply that by a hundred or more other people who are either just browsing, lurking or semi posting.

NEVER get tired of advocating for what you believe in, seriously.You may not get feedback or feel like you're banging your head off a brick wall, but I for one appreciate your posts and info.

It does get seriously repetitive and you almost bore yourself to death, in real life and on Boards telling people the same thing over and over and OVER AGAIN *yaaaaawn*.

BUT....what you have said and constantly post...MAKES SENSE!!!If one single person looks at your link, randomly googles TNR (Trap Neuter Release for the first person reading this that doesn't know what it means), then you have done a good feckin job.

Quit your moanin will ya :pac::pac:

ferretone

Ah now, please go easy on Boomerang just now: she is going through a really rough time! Which is why I feel I need to put my neck out in her place for a a wee bit now. Obviously I don't have her knowledge or experience, but can field a few criticisms that are being levelled at her tried-and-proved approach.

There is simply no better way to keep the feral (preferred term: ex:domestic) cat population in an area under control than by setting up a properly-managed colony, the beginning of which is the TNR program.

Almost invariably at the start there have been too many kittens produced, so some of these, following testing, need to be well-tamed and rehomed as family pets. These "kittens" may not all be still of conventionally accepted taming age: I myself have a cuddly wee princess who was passed on in this way at over a year!

However, it is vitally important that enough cats are returned after neutering to make the colony viable. The heroine who took the massive colony our girly came from under her wing, did crazy amounts of fundraising, spent all her evenings working so hard with the traps, brought the whole thing into beautiful control, left people feeding and observing, only to realise 2 years later, that she had been overly conservative with the numbers she had left, and other cats had moved in and were once again breeding :eek: And the national economy had collapsed, so she had no hopes of doing the whole thing over. I offered donations, but she told me I was among very few, where there were hundreds the first time round.

But she was completely sure it was a miscalculation, and so much more difficult to get that right in such a huge colony, plus in a smaller one it would be so much easier to readjust if necessary.

And as regards sustaining the numbers in a properly-managed colony, well there are always so many ex-domestic cats that, once neutered, can be released into a different area, I can't see that the repopulation needs to be left to chance either.

loveisdivine

I really don't understand the "its not my responsibility" argument. Like someone else has already pointed out, most people wouldn't say that about a dog!

People whinge and moan about feral cats but they are willing to do dick all about it! I suppose they just expect someone else to come in and "take care" of the problem. Quite frankly, its ignorant to the extreme.

People need to remember that its humans and humans alone that have caused this issue in the first place.

mitosis

boomerang wrote: »

Once feral cats are neutered and basic provisions for their needs are met, they have the same expected lifespan of any owned, pet cat that has access to the outdoors. We look after neutered colonies that have been in existence for ten or twelve years and the 'foundation' cats are in their teens. The attrition rate is very, very gradual, and in the meantime, the existence of a stable colony acts as a deterrent against other strays or ferals moving into the immediate area.

I've learned from experience that once you start taking a lot of individuals out of the colony to relocate them elsewhere (or have them put down) it totally disrupts the social order within the group and that is when you have opportunistic lone individuals (un-neutered feral toms whose range encompasses the colony's territory, or stray cats that are ranging across multiple territories because they are chased away) coming in and adding to the problem.

But really, I'm tired of advocating TNR to folks who really are just spectactors and don't care too much about the issue on a welfare basis. It's been done to death in other threads, no need to resurrect the debate here, where the OP is looking for practical advice.

So the actual fact of the matter is that the OP and partner and neighbours et al will see no reduction in cat numbers via TNR. She has 20 cats in her back garden for Pete's sake, and this is OK? I'm not sure how practical 'get used to it, and get used to paying for them' is.

boomerang

I don't think doing nothing is an option, here. Waiting for someone else to pick up the tab is pointless. The local council won't help. The dog warden won't deal with it. There is no public money for stray or feral cats and a private pest control company will charge in the region of €100 to trap, kill and dispose of each cat.

So responsibility falls to people like the OP, who are kind enough to take it on. But you know what? It's really not bleak. I'm in the middle of a project on an estate where we were called in by the residents' association. We attended a meeting with them and explained what we do. They agreed to pay half the cost of neutering the cats and we fundraised the rest. (We do this regularly for cases where there are a lot of cats and the people feeding them genuinely can't meet the full cost of the TNR.) We have our own equipment, volunteered our time for free and did all the donkey work to and from the vets. The cats stayed over in my house to recover and were returned having been fully health-checked. They are fed and have shelter.

The back-up is there for people who want to be proactive. Unfortunately in this case, when they first contacted us they balked at having to contribute to the cost. They let it go and when they rang us again it was because three litters of kittens had been born.

mitosis

Am I right in saying they are classified as vermin in law?

Pumpkinseeds

I don't know why, but there has always been a very peculiar attitude in Ireland towards cats, strays and ferals in particular. There are so many people out there who still have the 'sure let them starve' attitude that makes me sick to my stomach. They are the same sort of people, in my opinion, who feel no pity when they see a starving or sick stray and will just turn a blind eye to a suffering cat, but show them a neglected dog and they'd almost call for the death penalty for the culprit.

I have the utmost respect and admiration for the work done by Boomerang, and people like her with ferals and strays. Until recent years there have been very few people trying to do anything for the ferals. I have a former feral and he is a wonderful cat. All 3 of our cats were strays that nobody wanted and would have starved if they hadn't found us.

I'm disgusted by people who perpetuate the attitude of 'starve em and they'll move on'. To be honest people, I pity those of you with that attitude and I sincerely hope that you don't pass it on to your offspring. Whatever about your pitiless personal opinion about homeless cats, but it's disgusting to be trying to use that bizarre attitude to undermine the wonderful work done by those trying to make life better for vulnerable cats.