If you have been refused your rights by Argos Irl, read & PM me. Small Claims Court

An Ri rua

Synopsis.

I bought a netbook in Argos at Christmas.
In May, the screen switched from vertical to horizontal. We got that sorted. A week later, it went kaput. Showing it to Argos, the counter staff decided it was an ink bleed. Possibly, but not caused by any abuse by us. I have a similar netbook, older, and it is in perfect condition. Plus a 10 year old Dell laptop in perfect condition and a 210K 13 year old car that I've owned since 70K and 5 yrs old. That is also perfect. So, I don't break things. Full stop.

ps Its a publicised fault with this netbook. Many others had reported it. All Argos had to do was push the issue to the manufacturer. Could they be too cosy with manufacturers? I don't know. I do know I am far from alone in being refused my rights and being offered (attempted duping) on a consistent basis an insurance which I DO NOT NEED. Our Sale of Goods Act is stronger than even the EU retail law. Don't forget it. Our country is not always the basket-case we think. And many of our public servants (like the Small Claims Court) do EXCELLENT WORK on our behalf.

Argos, when contacted by the Small Claims Court, rolled over and acceded to granting my rights. In fact, they have REFUNDED where I only wanted a repair.

If you have been <SNIP> over by Argos or any other retailer who gladly take your money, undercut smaller operations and then refuse to carry back legitimate complaints to manufacturers (in my view an unholy alliance that is probably 'rewarded' by the manufacturers (who would not reward such a 'returns buffer' ? )), then press for your rights here, at the Small Claims Court. Its ONLINE now, so you have no excuse, you lazy <SNIP>

I believe that every monetary action we take should be valued in terms of workhours. If Argos think that I would work 3 days free for them, they are sadly mistaken. Will you? Will you work free for someone or will you simply demand that your consumer rights re honoured? I would shed blood for less. I wouldn't take a cent that wasn't mine but I would and will out companies that abuse terms of contracts in my country. Argos, with their <SNIP> 'insurance' scheme (<SNIP>?) is one such company.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

https://smallclaims.courts.ie/esmallclaims/claim/Main?page=home&Language=English

Go n'eirí an bothar leat

mcw92

I have no idea what this post is about.

Did Argos not offer to send away for repair or replace the laptop for you when the screen was damaged?

being offered (attempted duping) on a consistent basis an insurance which I DO NOT NEED.

This is Argos staff policy to offer this. Same as any store will offer you an extended warranty or inform you of one.

If Argos think that I would work 3 days free for them, they are sadly mistaken

When did they ask you to work 3 days for free? lol


Also their 'insurance' is not insurance, it is an extended warranty. It is a one off fee, that you have the option to purchase.
While a normal warranty covers manufacturer's faults, this covers accidental also, and is between 2-3 years depending on what you buy.
They will usually replace the item on the day for you, except in the case of laptops/tablets etc where they might have to be sent of to the manufacturer.

ZENER

. . . an ink bleed./QUOTE]

Do you mean like this ?



The fist issue could have been caused by screen rotation - a feature of Windows. Ctrl+Alt+Arrow Keys will do this.

Ken

An Ri rua

mcw92 wrote: »

I have no idea what this post is about.

Did Argos not offer to send away for repair or replace the laptop for you when the screen was damaged?



This is Argos staff policy to offer this. Same as any store will offer you an extended warranty or inform you of one.


When did they ask you to work 3 days for free? lol


Also their 'insurance' is not insurance, it is an extended warranty. It is a one off fee, that you have the option to purchase.
While a normal warranty covers manufacturer's faults, this covers accidental also, and is between 2-3 years depending on what you buy.
They will usually replace the item on the day for you, except in the case of laptops/tablets etc where they might have to be sent of to the manufacturer.

You're arrogant and you're wrong on many counts. So you can 'lol' away. What makes you presume that you have more authority or knowledge than me in this regard?? Argos DO NOT repair items generally. They try to point out negligence where there was none. I am speaking from the experience of dealing with the small claims court and hearing their considered opinion. I am speaking from the point of view of a seasoned and MSc Strategy educated business professional.
I sought a repair based on a manufacturer fault. You must be unable to read? ("I have no idea what this post is about") >> This fully answers my question... :rolleyes:

Argos, by implying accidental damage, to not just my laptop, but to numerous other incidents that have been brought to my attention, were shrugging off their responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act when we both entered into a contract as equal parties. By taking my money and not holding up their end of the bargain, you can now label that how you like: - theft, fraud, the list goes on. Essentially, 3 earned days of net income for me that they had attempted to appropriate by underhand means. You can tussle with the concepts if you like. This post is to help some; if it educates you in the process, well isn't that an indirect bonus, grasshopper.

This post is for anyone who has been denied their consumer rights by Argos, not a request for help in understanding the basics of consumer law, courtesy of your esteemed self :rolleyes:

noodler

An Ri rua wrote: »

YOu're arrogant and you're wrong on many counts. So you can 'lol' away. What makes you presume that you have more authority or knowledge than me in this regard?? Argos DO NOT repair items generally. They try to point out negligence where there was none. I am speaking from the experience of dealing with the small claims court and hearing their considered opinion. I am speaking from the point of view of a seasoned and MSc Strategy educated business professional.
I sought a repair based on a manufacturer fault. You must be unable to read? ("I have no idea what this post is about" >> This answers my question... :rolleyes:

This post is for anyone who has been denied their consumer rights by Argos, not a request for help in understanding the basics of consumer law, courtesy of your esteemed self :rolleyes:

There are a few strange points in your post alright.

The Irish Sales of Goods Act is for manufactuirng faults, the insurance or extended warranty offered at the counter by Argos and a million other retailers is for personal negligence etc.

An Ri rua

ZENER wrote: »

. . . an ink bleed./QUOTE]

Do you mean like this ?



The fist issue could have been caused by screen rotation - a feature of Windows. Ctrl+Alt+Arrow Keys will do this.

Ken

Hi yes, similar to that. Not caused by any knocks on our part. caused by an over-flimsy screen on the MSI U180. Complained about by others here http://www.fixya.com/support/t14016413-msi_wind_u180_netbook_lcd_screen_looks

An Ri rua

noodler wrote: »

There are a few strange points in your post alright.

The Irish Sales of Goods Act is for manufactuirng faults, the insurance or extended warranty offered at the counter by Argos and a million other retailers is for personal negligence etc.

I'm aware of that. The netbook had a manufacturer's fault. They (untrained retail staff on the front counter) were deciding that it was ink bleed from a fall. I had to insist that our views be included on the report to the assessor. Otherwise, it would have been a wasted exercise. Argos told me that if I had insurance, they could repair the fault, if not it would cost. Yet the fault was a manufacturers. So I take your point, that there are a few strange jumps in my post. But that assumes that Argos are working with all of our best interests at heart. From indirect credible feedback I have received, this is not the case. Yes, it should be a simple case of repair, replace, refund. But not if you can point to accident and negligence. I do not assume that businesses seek to implement consumer rights fully and neither should anyone else. In fact, a recent Irish or UK national survey proved that the majority of high street retailers were negligent and a frightening number misdirecting, in their disseminaton of consumer rights in these scenarios. That, to me, points to a cosy relationship with manufacturers; at the expense of the uneducated consumer.
If I had no case, the Small Claims Court would not have approved it. Argos, it would seem, are a bit naughty....

I should also add that my initial post possibly reads bit loopy as I had just drained a bottle of wine . But the post is still generally accurate. I have anecdotal proof of many people being denied their rights for repair, replace, refund. I have very credible feedback that underscores that anecdotal assessment. I also have approval from the SCC and a cheque from Argos saying that I am right and they are wrong. Or maybe I am wrong and @mcw92 is right? Maybe ....

donkey_kong

An Ri rua wrote: »

Or maybe I am wrong and @mcw92 is right? Maybe ....

I don't think he's trying to dispute the basic point of your post, if I understand it correctly, that the small claims court is a marvelous tool for consumers to protect their statutory rights from retailers unwilling to honour them as what happened with you and Argos on this occasion. I totally agree that it is up to the consumer to use tools like the small claims court to claim what they are entitled to rather than taking for granted that retailers like Argos will do it for them. I think he was challenging instead the tone of your post which I feel was implying that this was a deliberate piece of malpractice by Argos constituting fraud, and that their extended warranty is a scam, and that they habitually behave like this (I fully accept in your case they did indeed behave illegally).

Maybe he's nitpicking or missing your greater point about encouraging consumers to make themselves aware of their rights and use the small claims court when they are threatened, but I feel you're overreacting in dismissing him as 'arrogant' and his opinion unworthy of debate with your MSc and professional experience, and maybe you're being a little unfair to Argos. You're right that Argos do not repair generally but mcw92 is correct that laptops and netbooks are one of the few items that they do, in general, elect to send to the manufacturer for repair rather than replace or refund if they agree that their is a manufacturers fault, precisely because Argos retail staff are in general too undertrained to make an immediate call on the cause of fault with such complex devices. In your case it appears that the staff involved didn't follow this procedure and you were forced to go to the small claims court to exercise your statutory rights. On this occasion Argos were indeed guilty of neglecting their legal responsibility so congrats on your refund.

Despite my own nitpicking here OP is right about small claims court folks, brilliant citizens resource, and he's right that you shouldn't take it for granted that Argos (or any other retailer) will always behave correctly. Buyer beware!

zenno

I'm astonished as to how many Irish folk that don't know their consumer rights, all it takes is a few minutes to read them and you then know where you stand, as your rights as a consumer are paramount in the case of being sold faulty goods and the first repair must be permanent etc...

If anyone wants to know what rights they have as a consumer, just take 8 minutes of your time to read them, it's important to us all to know this.

NCA

http://www.nca.ie/nca/faulty-goods

whippet

I am failing to see what the point of this thread is really?

it is either:

a) a public service announcement that the Small Claims Court exists (which NCA advertising has been telling us for years)
b) Some one who got joy from the SCC and wants to beat his chest so loudly that everyone will know how great he is.

OP, fair play to you on your persistence and ultimate satisfaction but you have far too many conspiracy theories in their for me to take much of your claim seriously.

BTW .. mentioning your MSc randomly in one of your posts won't endear you to too many people, I know people with PHds etc and can barely tie shoe laces.

Cabaal

OP, why are you asking people to PM you exactly?

You can't deal with somebody's issue on their behalf, you can't lodge a class action suit (they don't exist in Ireland).

dudara

I do not disagree with your sentiment about making sure that people educate themselves on their consumer rights.

But I do not want to give you a soapbox either. Please validate the reason for this thread, and why you are asking posters to PM you, given that the issue has been resolved.

dudara

yoyo

ZENER wrote: »

The fist issue could have been caused by screen rotation - a feature of Windows. Ctrl+Alt+Arrow Keys will do this.

Ken

This would be a driver feature (generally Intel display drivers support this hotkey and I think ATI ones). Nvidia drivers do not have hotkeys to rotate the display that I know of

Nick

An Ri rua

Cabaal wrote: »

OP, why are you asking people to PM you exactly?

You can't deal with somebody's issue on their behalf, you can't lodge a class action suit (they don't exist in Ireland).

I will answer your question CONCISELY Mod. And @dudara's. Because if you use the wrong address for the retailer, your case will fall flat in its face. If you use the address on CRO or on the back of the till receipts, your case 'may' fall flat on its face. If you use the address that I have been advised works, your case will hit home.

That's the primary reason for the post. Am I beating my chest? Maybe. Apologies for mentioning my MSc. My point is I am a sales professional for 20 years and don't take kindly to the 'lols' of @mcw92's post. Hence my response. I was posting to help others, not to ask for help from the over-confident, over-assuming. Retailers in general do NOT have consumers' best interests in mind. If I was selling into a channel (I have done) and one high street retailer was over-zealous in returns versus others' behaviour, then it would influence sales negotiations. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive.

Not wishing to stand up on a soapbox. Hoping to drive home to people (yes, most people fail to press for their basic rights) that the SCC is there, it is now accessible online (Mods, really, how many people know of that ease of access?) and that they owe it to themselves and their families and fellow consumers to press on when problems occur. Ensure accountability.

Kind regards

Mountjoy Mugger

Would it not be more helpful to the community if you simply posted the address here?


It would save everyone time and effort.

ZENER

yoyo wrote: »

This would be a driver feature (generally Intel display drivers support this hotkey and I think ATI ones). Nvidia drivers do not have hotkeys to rotate the display that I know of

Nick

Hi
That option does appear in the Screen Resolution dialog, but it only works if it is supported by the installed hardware/drivers. You apparently have a monitor that is capable of rotating and you're making assumptions that every system works like yours.
Some graphic devices do support a keyboard shortcut to rotate the screen, notably nVidia, enables the Ctrl+Alt+Arrow Keys.
Please post the details of your system, including the make and model of the monitor and graphics device. We may be able to find something that will work for you.
Regards,
Thank You for using Windows 7/QUOTE]

From here.

Ken

mcw92

An Ri rua wrote: »

I'm aware of that. The netbook had a manufacturer's fault. They (untrained retail staff on the front counter) were deciding that it was ink bleed from a fall.

There is no way Argos can prove that it was a manufacturers fault.
It could easily have being a knock to the laptop that caused it.

Argos's policy is to send the laptop away if it is within the manufacturer's year's warranty. They are not going to take your word for it that it was a manufacturer fault and give you a new laptop worth hundreds.
The same with tablets, they send it away, and contact you when it is back and fixed.

I also have approval from the SCC and a cheque from Argos saying that I am right and they are wrong

Argos are not going to go to the SCC over something one laptop, they are obviously going to replace it for you. I wouldn't call this a huge accomplishment for you 'winning' like this.

You're arrogant and you're wrong on many counts. So you can 'lol' away. What makes you presume that you have more authority or knowledge than me in this regard?? Argos DO NOT repair items generally. They try to point out negligence where there was none. I am speaking from the experience of dealing with the small claims court and hearing their considered opinion. I am speaking from the point of view of a seasoned and MSc Strategy educated business professional.
I sought a repair based on a manufacturer fault. You must be unable to read? ("I have no idea what this post is about") >> This fully answers my question... :rolleyes:

When did i say i have more authority or knowledge?
And no Argos do not repair items.
If the item was bought within the year, and is a general electric item with a fault not caused from negligence, they will replace it on the spot for you.
ie. Kettle, Vacuum Cleaner.

If it is a laptop or tablet, they will have to send it away to the original manufacturer, Asus, Sony etc. for them to determine the cause and to get them fixed.

And "I have no idea what this post is about" because this post is pointless.
All you are doing is telling people how bad your experience with Argos was,
Why would a user PM you??

dudara

Please state why you are requesting that posters PM you?

dudara

An Ri rua

dudara wrote: »

Please state why you are requesting that posters PM you?

dudara

I have already clearly stated that. If the response is not suitable, please advise. One other poster has already suggested.

An Ri rua

mcw92 wrote: »

There is no way Argos can prove that it was a manufacturers fault.
It could easily have being a knock to the laptop that caused it.

Argos's policy is to send the laptop away if it is within the manufacturer's year's warranty. They are not going to take your word for it that it was a manufacturer fault and give you a new laptop worth hundreds.
The same with tablets, they send it away, and contact you when it is back and fixed.



Argos are not going to go to the SCC over something one laptop, they are obviously going to replace it for you. I wouldn't call this a huge accomplishment for you 'winning' like this.


When did i say i have more authority or knowledge?
And no Argos do not repair items.
If the item was bought within the year, and is a general electric item with a fault not caused from negligence, they will replace it on the spot for you.
ie. Kettle, Vacuum Cleaner.

If it is a laptop or tablet, they will have to send it away to the original manufacturer, Asus, Sony etc. for them to determine the cause and to get them fixed.

And "I have no idea what this post is about" because this post is pointless.
All you are doing is telling people how bad your experience with Argos was,
Why would a user PM you??

Apart from your deciding to interject in my clear advice to others to be more aware of their rights in regards to Argos specifically, and most retailers generally, I am not quite sure as to why yo are batting so strongly for Argos. That is, unless I analyse your posts. Perhaps you work for them, perhaps not. But you are batting very strongly for the robustness of their retail policies and that is a tad nerdy unless you work for them.

You also assume that some people accept being implied as a liar quite amicably. I don't. I simply don't break things. Hence why accidental damage being implied by totally untrained counter staff really p*ssed me off. I stated clearly that it had encountered problems for 2-3 weeks previously. They told me we should have brought it in immediately. I don't know where that's covered in legislation. They also said it HAD been dropped. That is clearly an issue when I am perfectly aware it has not been dropped. Just because many people lie to retailers does not mean that I have to accept being tarred with the same brush. I value and mind items. Hence why I described the older MSI netbook I'm typing on now, my high-mile car, the known fault circulating online about the MSI U180 ultra-thin screen.
You are wrong. Argos DO offer to repair. I was offered it, at my cost. The 'assessor', A&J Henry have not got a fantastic reputation online either. The costs described to repair the netbook were double what sourcing that replacement screen and professional labour would be. I priced it. The SCC intimated that a similar repair quote scenario exists in the world of mobile phones; such as to put off consumers.
You seem to assume dishonesty in punters and honesty in retailers. That is a tad biased. Some punters are honest. Some retailers are too. But the facts in my case speak volumes. As do anecdotal stories, if one cares to listen.

ps you say "Argos's policy is to send the laptop away if it is within the manufacturer's year's warranty. They are not going to take your word for it that it was a manufacturer fault and give you a new laptop worth hundreds. >> You are batting TOO STRONGLY for Argos. You forget that Argos are subject to the laws of Ireland. And the Sale of Goods Act extends WELL BEYOND any rules Argos or these manufacturers set. That is one of the main points of my posting. Consumers have rights and should become more fully aware of their rights. Including now the ese with which they can take a case online through the Small Claims Court.

Also worth reading this thread. Thanks to @foggylad and others http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80026448 This is Ireland. We pay over the odds for almost everything already, compared to our Brit and European neighbours. I think we should therefore be zealous in pressing home our strong consumer rights.

An Ri rua

I will supply the address here asap for bringing Argos to the Small Claims Court.

There is no need to PM me.

However, can I ask the Mods, what exactly is the issue with anyone PM'ing me? Is it breaking a rule? If so, I apologise. But which rule?

Kind rgds

twowheelsonly

On the other side of the coin...

Twice I've had to return goods to Argos.
Twice their customer service has been excellent.

Most recent was a relatively expensive watch that I dropped (I'm human, like just about everyone that I know I've been known to break a few things in my 49 years on this earth) and I told Argos this. No problem - they replaced it on the spot.
The other item was a television stand, broken out of the box. No problem - they replaced it on the spot.

Undoubtedly, if 95% of people saw that damage they would question if it was dropped. I assume that the Argos staff would think the same. You have the advantage of having researched the problem, something that they hadn't at first. Kindle had a similar problem with some of their screens and were replacing them no questions asked once the problem came to light.
I have no doubt that if this issue was dealt with in a reasonable manner in the first instance then it could have been resolved without recourse to the SCC.

mobpd

An Ri rua wrote: »

I will supply the address here asap for bringing Argos to the Small claims court

I sent pm but no reply yet

Menas

I still don't know what this thread is about..but regarding Argos I have never had an issue getting a replacement for electrical product, I have had three faulty items from them in the last decade.
As with most retailers if you are civil and reasonable to the staff they tend to be more flexible in their dealings with you.

dudara

An Ri rua wrote: »

I have already clearly stated that[/B]. If the response is not suitable, please advise. One other poster has already suggested.

If I am interpreting you correctly, you are offering to share the correct address for Argos Ireland when attempting to lodge a Small Claims Court. However, this is not immediately clear from your posts. It would be far easier if you could post the address in this thread.

Apart from your deciding to interject in my clear advice to others

Please play nice with other posters. Everyone is entitled to add their opinion, as long as it is relevant to the thread.

hat is, unless I analyse your posts. Perhaps you work for them, perhaps not. But you are batting very strongly for the robustness of their retail policies and that is a tad nerdy unless you work for them.

This comment is thrown out by so many posters when someone else posts contradictory comments. It is guaranteed to annoy posters who may be just trying to help or offer other opinions.

skinny90

I'm confused.
Hypothitical scenario here:
Lets say i buy a laptop which has a cheap plastic external case and instead of putting it in a laptop bag.
Instead of putting it in a laptop case I opt for a sleave again very cheap .i throw a few college books into the bag and from all the pressure I get a screen bleed. Even tho there may not be scratches or evidence of it been dropped by using your methodology I could argue that this is a manufacturing fault ??
Surely greater protection to the retailer is required if that's the case

Bepolite

Just some ancillary points. OP you come across in this thread in a certain way; whether that is how you come across face to face only you know. While I've no particular love for retailers who flout consumer protection laws, some people do make it very difficult to help them when you've the competing issues of policies designed to prevent fraud and a customer demanding satisfaction for a legitimate issue, especially in a non-specialist store, dealing with an industry that traditionally hasn't complied with consumer laws itself (computer sector).

Retailers will almost always refund at the point of the small claims court, frankly this isn't a particularly satisfactory situation, which leads me on to disagreeing with your point in relation to our consumer protections being satisfactory. They are in need of reform, mainly to remove the ambiguity, but also to simplify and codify what actions need to be taken at each stage. Let's not forget that the 1980 Act simply reads in parts of the 1893 Act, old law isn't necessarily bad law, but the dynamic of consumer contracts had changed immeasurably in the last 120 years. There are also all sorts of ancillary legislation and no published decisions on interpretation. It's unclear for the consumer and unclear for the retailers, who will inevitably end up paying out on spurious claims.

Anyway to make a point, the majority of people, in a fairly reasonable number of threads here seem satisfied with Argos, the minority find satisfaction through the SmCC. No business is perfect, sometimes it needs an independent third party to adjudicate parties on both sides do tend to have a propensity to over react.

matt-dublin

So from what I get, my interpretation is that the OP isn't overly computer literate originally mistaking a feature of the device as a fault.

Don't really see the relevance of that in the post.

Then the screen cracked "by itself due to manufacturing flaw" and the OP overstates that they have never broken anything like it before quite defensively (or suspiciously?)

Brought the item back to Argos who were well within their right to deny the swap as it looks like user damage.

Wasn't happy with the result and went to the SCC to get their jollies and screw Argos for what seems to be clearly user damage?

Then comes on here to brag about it. Stating they know a specific address but not the one on the company registration (because that's wrong apparently even though it's illegal for it to be wrong?) that everyone has to use if they want to bring a claim against them but doesn't tell anyone about it or in fact doesn't tell anyone what this thread is really about?

@Dudara I hate back seat modding but do I have to??????

Mountjoy Mugger

An Ri rua wrote: »

I will supply the address here asap for bringing Argos to the Small Claims Court.

There is no need to PM me.

Kind rgds

Still waiting....

mcw92

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

Still waiting....

An Ri rua wrote: »

I will supply the address here asap

.......as slowly as possible...:P

banchang

I have a HP tablet which stopped working after 22 months. Bought in Argos Jervis St.

Both Argos & HP say it is outside warranty, & that to repair it would cost me Eur50 to send away to HP to assess, & thereafter I would have to cover the costs of HP's repair.

I said that warranties are irrelevant in the context of consumer rights, but Argos insist that they will do no more.

Argos mentioned that if I go to the Small Claims court, I would still need to employ an independent expert to certify the fault.

The tablet is unresponsive, won't charge, does nothing, has ceased functioning completely. It was treated with kid gloves during its 22 months of life, housed in a strong leather cover, never received a fall, water or any other kind of damage, & only had light usage, as shortly after buying the HP I also bought an Ipad, & the HP has been used little since, although was always kept charged & updated with latest software. Went to it 3 weeks ago & it had simply shut down & was unresponsive. I had left it in to Argos to send away but they called me at the weekend to tell me the above news, so they still have it.


My question is about the Independent Expert certification on the fault.

Citizensinformation.ie says about preparing for SCC :

Gathering evidence

When presenting your information to the court, you should back it up with evidence wherever possible. You should:

have your receipt or other proof of purchase ready
bring the faulty or damaged goods to the court to show them to the judge
take photographs of poor workmanship, damaged property or poor quality goods or services that you can't bring to court
get an independent opinion by another expert and have the expert appear in the court as your witness (you will be responsible for any expense this might incur)
bring any letters, advertisements or any other documents you may have relied on when buying the goods or services
ask any other person who can back up your claim, especially in the case of faulty services provided, to attend as a witness. You can send them a witness summons if necessary – the Small Claims Registrar can issue a witness summons on your behalf for a small fee.


Not sure - do I need to pay someone to certify that this brick is faulty ?

Also grateful if you could share the correct Argos address as has been reference in this thread.

Any other advice on the SCC claim appreciated.