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If you have been refused your rights by Argos Irl, read & PM me. Small Claims Court
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Why don't you contact the manufacturer and log a warranty call with them?0
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matt-dublin wrote: »Why don't you contact the manufacturer and log a warranty call with them?
I did.
They said it went out of warranty after 12 months. Argos gave the same response. I said that a tablet like this should have a life expectation of longer than 22 months, but both HP & Argos refuse to say or offer anything further.0 -
The problem you have is that if you show up in court with a device that isn't working and you can't actually present evidence of what the fault is the judge can't just take your word for it that it was minded and just stopped working.
Get on to HP, log a call; they will diagnose it over the phone email you a record of the case and then probably offer a repair service.
If you have this call reference number it would suffice as independent (as in independent of you and of argos) as to what the fault is.
One thing I noticed from your post is that you haven't used it much since buying it 22 months ago; I would assume that the battery wasn't charged in all that time. Did you have a read of the manual to see what it said about maintaining battery health? More than likely the battery is wasted due to not being charged / cycled etc.
If you didn't maintain the battery as per the manufactures instructions you may be fighting a loosing battle.0 -
battery warranty is only six months maximum from any manufacturer anyway0
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One thing I noticed from your post is that you haven't used it much since buying it 22 months ago; I would assume that the battery wasn't charged in all that time. Did you have a read of the manual to see what it said about maintaining battery health? More than likely the battery is wasted due to not being charged / cycled etc.
If you didn't maintain the battery as per the manufactures instructions you may be fighting a loosing battle.
Please see my original note
"the HP has been used little since, although was always kept charged & updated with latest software".0 -
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Please see my original note
"the HP has been used little since, although was always kept charged & updated with latest software".
used little may degrade the battery, It looks like you have a battery issue and if you look at any paper work that came with the device you will probably see information on maintaining battery life. Unless you followed the advise you won't have a leg to stand on.
BTW .. I would imagine the device will capture battery usage and cycles etc so this is something that you won't be able to bluff on.0 -
Thanks for replies.
To clarify, when I say used little, it would have been picked up & used daily, but not for long periods, & would have always been kept charged.0 -
warranty 12 months
stopped working after 22 months
Its out of warranty and you would have to cover the costs of HP's repair
If it stopped working during its warranty period then you would had had a case but would have had to make a claim during its warranty period
Making a warranty claim after 22 months is useless if you only had a warranty for 12 months
You can still get it fixed outside of a warranty but as with any other out of warranty product it would be at your cost or you could use your home insurance if it was covered but would depend on your excess cover costs and might not be worth using your home insurance
Was it working fully during the 12 month warranty and if it was not you should have made a claim then before its warranty ended
It would be up to you to pay for outside tech report on the HP tablet and would have to show it was a design fault to make a claim outside of warranty as in to prove it was a fault from day one of use0 -
paulboland wrote: »warranty 12 months
stopped working after 22 months
Its out of warranty and you would have to cover the costs of HP's repair
If it stopped working during its warranty period then you would had had a case but would have had to make a claim during its warranty period
Making a warranty claim after 22 months is useless if you only had a warranty for 12 months
You can still get it fixed outside of a warranty but as with any other out of warranty product it would be at your cost or you could use your home insurance if it was covered but would depend on your excess cover costs and might not be worth using your home insurance
Was working fully on during the 12 month warranty and if it was not you should have made a claim then before its warranty ended
Thanks for reply but thankfully EU Consumer legislation trumps any random warranty period which a manufacturer or retailer attaches to a product they sell you.0 -
http://www.nca.ie/nca/guarantees-warrantiesThanks for reply but thankfully EU Consumer legislation trumps any random warranty period which a manufacturer or retailer attaches to a product they sell you.0 -
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paulboland wrote: »warranty 12 months
stopped working after 22 months
Its out of warranty and you would have to cover the costs of HP's repair
If it stopped working during its warranty period then you would had had a case but would have had to make a claim during its warranty period
Making a warranty claim after 22 months is useless if you only had a warranty for 12 months
You can still get it fixed outside of a warranty but as with any other out of warranty product it would be at your cost or you could use your home insurance if it was covered but would depend on your excess cover costs and might not be worth using your home insurance
Was it working fully during the 12 month warranty and if it was not you should have made a claim then before its warranty ended
Hey Paul.
The warranty is what the manufacturer gives you in the case of it being faulty or packing up. Consumer rights in Ireland make Argos give you a lot more.
Have a read here.0 -
This is something they say now to get you to just give up or to pay someone else to repair the item even though they as the retailer are responsible for repairing.
Argos mentioned that if I go to the Small Claims court, I would still need to employ an independent expert to certify the fault.
Sounds like it has developed a fault which ishould be covered by your statutory rights!The tablet is unresponsive, won't charge, does nothing, has ceased functioning completely. It was treated with kid gloves during its 22 months of life, housed in a strong leather cover, never received a fall, water or any other kind of damage, & only had light usage, as shortly after buying the HP I also bought an Ipad, & the HP has been used little since, although was always kept charged & updated with latest software. Went to it 3 weeks ago & it had simply shut down & was unresponsive. I had left it in to Argos to send away but they called me at the weekend to tell me the above news, so they still have it.My question is about the Independent Expert certification on the fault.
Citizensinformation.ie says about preparing for SCC :
Gathering evidence
When presenting your information to the court, you should back it up with evidence wherever possible. You should:
have your receipt or other proof of purchase ready
bring the faulty or damaged goods to the court to show them to the judge
take photographs of poor workmanship, damaged property or poor quality goods or services that you can't bring to court
get an independent opinion by another expert and have the expert appear in the court as your witness (you will be responsible for any expense this might incur)
bring any letters, advertisements or any other documents you may have relied on when buying the goods or services
ask any other person who can back up your claim, especially in the case of faulty services provided, to attend as a witness. You can send them a witness summons if necessary – the Small Claims Registrar can issue a witness summons on your behalf for a small fee.
Not sure - do I need to pay someone to certify that this brick is faulty ?
No, you do not need to pay anyone except the small claims court fees. These are just options for you when attending the SCC of presenting your evidence, the first option of bringing the faulty/damaged goods to the court with you would suffice in this case as the Judge will see the external condition and the care taken etc.
In the current economic climate many companies, often British chain stores, are using this type of ploy to dissuade customers from seeking or asserting their statutory rights! even Declan the managing director of Currys was doing it on their Talk to forums on boards.ie. others who do this are Argos and Smyths toys.0 -
Warrenty = Manufacturer or paid for warrentypaulboland wrote: »warranty 12 months
stopped working after 22 months
Its out of warranty and you would have to cover the costs of HP's repair
If it stopped working during its warranty period then you would had had a case but would have had to make a claim during its warranty period
Making a warranty claim after 22 months is useless if you only had a warranty for 12 months
You can still get it fixed outside of a warranty but as with any other out of warranty product it would be at your cost or you could use your home insurance if it was covered but would depend on your excess cover costs and might not be worth using your home insurance
Was it working fully during the 12 month warranty and if it was not you should have made a claim then before its warranty ended
It would be up to you to pay for outside tech report on the HP tablet and would have to show it was a design fault to make a claim outside of warranty as in to prove it was a fault from day one of use
Statutory Rights = Guaranteed by law and you deal exclusively with the retailer!0 -
I have a HP tablet which stopped working after 22 months. Bought in Argos Jervis St.
Both Argos & HP say it is outside warranty, & that to repair it would cost me Eur50 to send away to HP to assess, & thereafter I would have to cover the costs of HP's repair.
I said that warranties are irrelevant in the context of consumer rights, but Argos insist that they will do no more.
Argos mentioned that if I go to the Small Claims court, I would still need to employ an independent expert to certify the fault.
The tablet is unresponsive, won't charge, does nothing, has ceased functioning completely.
Have you check the usual Touchpad not charging solutions? I've had this before also with mine.
I've had to use the power off and home combo for 15 seconds but also with a new usb charger and cable (Had to buy a 2amp usb charger of Ebay as the usual mobile chargers don't provide enough amperage.0 -
Guarantees and warranties
A guarantee is a document from the manufacturer confirming that they will repair or replace an item if something goes wrong within a certain amount of time after you buy it. Products that come with a guarantee include household goods such as electrical appliances and furniture.
A guarantee gives you additional protection and strengthens your consumer rights. The guarantee usually applies to the goods during the lifetime of the guarantee.
Check the terms and conditions
Always check the terms and conditions of the guarantee. For example, you may need to register the guarantee with the manufacturer for certain conditions to be met. Unless you are expressly told otherwise when you bought the goods, deal directly with the retailer if you need to return goods under guarantee.
Don’t forget the small print
The guarantee might explain what happens if you give or sell the item to somebody else during the guarantee period. Find out exactly what is covered by the guarantee. For example, with electrical goods, are all parts or just specific parts covered? Is labour included and is there a limit on how much?
Warranties
When you are buying a product, the shop may ask if you would like to buy a warranty. This is like an insurance policy - it covers the product beyond the manufacturer's guarantee period.
So, you shouldn’t have to pay for repairs if the item breaks or becomes faulty within the period covered by the warranty.
Before you agree to a warranty, remember:
•It is completely optional and can be expensive, so do not feel pressured to take one.
•Consider the cost of replacing the faulty item and compare this to the cost of the warranty. Replacing the item may cost less than the warranty.
•Guarantees and warranties are legally binding on the company – they are enforceable through the courts if necessary.
You must prove the product was not fit for purpose if out of Warrenty and was a Manufacturer fault that was already there from day one
You cant go back to a shop 2-3-4 years later if something breaks and expect to get it fixed free if its not covered already by warranty
You must PROVE its was a fault already there from day one0 -
did you not use a genuine charger?jimmycrackcorm wrote: »Have you check the usual Touchpad not charging solutions? I've had this before also with mine.
I've had to use the power off and home combo for 15 seconds but also with a new usb charger and cable (Had to buy a 2amp usb charger of Ebay as the usual mobile chargers don't provide enough amperage.
this instantly voids any warranty0 -
You seem to be forgetting about or just ignoring all consumers have STATUTORY RIGHTS which protect them when things go wrong. these rights will most times offer greater protections than any of the warrenties including those which have been paid for.paulboland wrote: »Guarantees and warranties
A guarantee is a document from the manufacturer confirming that they will repair or replace an item if something goes wrong within a certain amount of time after you buy it. Products that come with a guarantee include household goods such as electrical appliances and furniture.
A guarantee gives you additional protection and strengthens your consumer rights. The guarantee usually applies to the goods during the lifetime of the guarantee.
Check the terms and conditions
Always check the terms and conditions of the guarantee. For example, you may need to register the guarantee with the manufacturer for certain conditions to be met. Unless you are expressly told otherwise when you bought the goods, deal directly with the retailer if you need to return goods under guarantee.
Don’t forget the small print
The guarantee might explain what happens if you give or sell the item to somebody else during the guarantee period. Find out exactly what is covered by the guarantee. For example, with electrical goods, are all parts or just specific parts covered? Is labour included and is there a limit on how much?
Warranties
When you are buying a product, the shop may ask if you would like to buy a warranty. This is like an insurance policy - it covers the product beyond the manufacturer's guarantee period.
So, you shouldn’t have to pay for repairs if the item breaks or becomes faulty within the period covered by the warranty.
Before you agree to a warranty, remember:
•It is completely optional and can be expensive, so do not feel pressured to take one.
•Consider the cost of replacing the faulty item and compare this to the cost of the warranty. Replacing the item may cost less than the warranty.
•Guarantees and warranties are legally binding on the company – they are enforceable through the courts if necessary.0 -
You seem to be forgetting about or just ignoring all consumers have STATUTORY RIGHTS which protect them when things go wrong. these rights will most times offer greater protections than any of the warrenties including those which have been paid for.
You must prove the product was not fit for purpose if out of Warrenty and was a Manufacturer fault that was already there from day one
other wise you will have people breaking the product due to misuse or pretending its a fault not caused by them
Products don't last forever unless it says so and has a lifetime guarantee in writing
products break due to lot of reasons some its the design fault and some is user fault but to make a claim in small claims court you must prove the product if not fit for purpose from day one
If you have a Warrenty then all repair cost or replacement will be covered by the retailer or Manufacturer
Outside of a warrenty period you still have the option of getting a repair done and not pay for repair if the tech report shows it was a design fault
If fault is due to misuse the cost of repair is with the consumer0 -
no you don't have to do anything of the sort!paulboland wrote: »You must prove the product was not fit for purpose if out of Warrenty and was a Manufacturer fault that was already there from day one
If a product stops working as it should it is broken and will need assessing and repair.
if covered by a manufacturer warranty you can chose to get it repaired this way or you can chose to deal exclusively with the retailer as they are the only other party to your contract for the purchase of the goods.
In the case of a mobile phone or washing machine etc the product not working as it should and no signs of customer mistreatment or deliberate or accidental damage is enough.
http://www.nca.ie/nca/faulty-goodsFaulty goods – your rights
Where goods turn out to be faulty and where you are not to blame, you have a number of options under consumer law. Faults with goods may be major or minor and present different issues for particular products.
If the fault is major, for example if you buy a mobile phone and it stops working shortly after you start using it due to a major fault with the phone, you have the option to reject the goods and rescind (end) the contract.
If the fault is minor, for example a button is missing from a piece of clothing you bought, you have the option to request a repair, replacement, a reduction in the price you paid or a refund. However, if the trader refuses to meet your requests or there is an unreasonable delay in providing one of these remedies, then you have the right to reject the goods and rescind the contract.
Your contract is with the retailer or supplier who sold you the goods or products so if there is a fault, it is up to them to fix it. You may also have extra protection if you have a guarantee or warranty from the manufacturer.
What to do
You should return the faulty item to the seller as soon as possible and explain what the problem is. If you think it might be useful, print out the page and bring it with you. If you have a complaint about faulty goods, shop notices such as "No Refunds" or "No Exchanges" do not limit your rights. Some shops display these notices, particularly during the sales, but this does not take away your rights under consumer law if the goods are faulty.
Reject & rescind
When you buy goods, you enter into a contract with the seller. If those goods turn out to be faulty and the fault is major, you are entitled to reject the goods and rescind (end) the contract. If you simply reject the goods, for example, a broken bill-pay phone, you may still be tied into a contract unless you demand to cancel it without any penalty fees.
This option is complex and can depend on a number of factors. For example, the severity of the fault, the length of time since you bought the goods, and the inconvenience caused to you as a result of the fault. If a fault occurs within the first 6 months of purchase, it is assumed that is was there at the time of sale. It is important to remember that if you caused the fault, the trader is under no obligation to offer you any type of compensation.
Repair
If you request a repair of a faulty product instead of rejecting it, it should be a permanent repair. If the same fault occurs again, then you should be entitled to a replacement or refund. If you are not happy with the retailer’s offer to repair the item, you can reject it. But if you do this, you may have to use the Small Claims process if you want to take the matter further.
Remember, the retailer may charge you for the repair if you have been responsible for the damage to the product.
Replacement
If you opt for a replacement, it should be the same as the item you bought, or of similar quality and price.
You should not have to pay extra for a replacement and should be given the difference in price if the replacement costs less than the item you originally bought.
Refund
If you opt for a refund, this can be in cash or by cheque, or the retailer can refund your credit or debit card account if you used one to buy the item. You do not have to accept a credit note or voucher as a refund as they are not equivalent to cash. You can choose a refund instead.
Other options
You have the option to use the Small Claims process as long as the claim does not exceed €2,000. The application fee is €25 and the service is provided in your local District Court.
If you paid for the goods by credit or debit card, your card provider may agree to reverse the transaction. This is called a chargeback. Contact your provider immediately and give them details of your transaction.
If you have any queries about your options, you can contact us.
Remember:
You have no rights under consumer law if you change your mind about the goods you have purchased. However, some shops may offer you an exchange as a gesture of goodwill
The shop is entitled to request proof of purchase, but this doesn't necessarily have to be the shop receipt. You could show your credit or debit card statement if you used one or any other documentation that proves it was purchased in that particular shop or retail chain
If you received the item as a gift, you will need to have a proof of purchase if you need to return it to the seller for any reason. This can take the form of a gift receipt, which you may need to request from the person who bought the item.0 -
many of our public servants (like the Small Claims Court) do EXCELLENT WORK on our behalf.
Argos, when contacted by the Small Claims Court, rolled over and acceded to granting my rights. In fact, they have REFUNDED where I only wanted a repair.
Good stuff.
I am not targeting Argos when I say this, but I think that customer service from many larger companies is often of an unacceptably low standard in this country. It is a low standard to which the Irish consumer has become accustomed, and takes for granted.
In any case, it seems that the OP was taken much more seriously by the seller when he brought his Small Claims Court proceedings.
I believe that if more people were prepared to assert their consumer rights in this country, customer service standards would have to improve overall. And not a day too soon, either.
A job well done by the OP.0 -
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Remember, the retailer may charge you for the repair if you have been responsible for the damage to the product.
Replacement
If the fault is not your fault then you can ask for replacement
EU Warranty is 2 Years in general
But lot of times fault are caused by misuse of a product
If its a genuine fault then you have your consumer rights0 -
paulboland wrote: »Remember, the retailer may charge you for the repair if you have been responsible for the damage to the product.
Replacement
If the fault is not your fault then you can ask for replacement
EU Warranty is 2 Years in general
But lot of times fault are caused by misuse of a product
If its a genuine fault then you have your consumer rights
Yes the retailer may charge for any repair that is your own fault from misuse or accidental damage but to tell customers this will be the case at the time they seek redress under their statutory rights is just wrong and an attempt to deny their rights by diminishing the benefit of those rights.
how it works is that first you bring the fault to the attention of your retailer/shopkeeper and ask them for a repair or replacement or a refund, they don't get to chose which they give but neither does the customer, it must be agreed between the parties or it will be off to the SCC.
If a repair is offered it must be done in a reasonable time and must be permanent/last the reasonable life of the product, No three repairs policies allowed! also if one repair is complete and something else gois wrong a different repair CAN be attempted BUT the consumer may reject the goods as not being durable and as such not fit for purpose and demand a replacement or refund!
The EU warranty on electrical and electronic goods does not apply in Ireland as our Sale of Goods Act provides far better protection for longer(up to 6 years).0 -
Just a small correction to the above, the protection come in the form of the Statute of Limitation Act 1957 rather than directly from the Sale of Goods Acts, to be fair a minor distinction.
This misconception that Europe can just hand down Laws to it's member states always makes me chuckle. Any directives need to be enacted in Ireland. Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 May 1999 is enacted here under European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003, note no mention of a statutory two year guarantee/warranty.0 -
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Trigger Happy wrote: »I still don't know what this thread is about..but regarding Argos I have never had an issue getting a replacement for electrical product, I have had three faulty items from them in the last decade.
As with most retailers if you are civil and reasonable to the staff they tend to be more flexible in their dealings with you.
You don't know what this thread is about? That's worrying. Lots of Boardsies clearly do? What do you need help with? We can break it down into simpler terms?
I was beyond helpful and polite. I always am. Minutes afterwards I picked up a load of stuff an Argos manager and a shopper had dropped and helped them bring it all back to the customer service desk. If you think though, that customer service policies should turn on the flippant basis of whether people like people or not, or whether you curry their favour, that is a very sad state of affairs. Other than that, your contribution seems to cast an indirect slur on my character; and that is against the rules of Boards.ie. Or what exactly did you mean by "As with most retailers if you are civil and reasonable to the staff they tend to be more flexible in their dealings with you" ?
This thread is about: -
1. claiming your full rights under the Sale of Goods Act, not merely what retailers offer.
2. using the CORRECT ADDRESS in pressing your claims
3. using the Small Claims Court ONLINE. It makes it very easy.
4. increasing awareness that many retailers, not just Argos, are muddying the waters in Ireland regarding consumer rights. They must do the proving, not you.
I do not understand the passive aggression in your post. I am a kind, decent and extremely honest person. And I count the items that I have broken in my life on one hand. If that upsets your day, God help you, whoever you are.
I will submit the correct address for pursuing Argos here tomorrow. I need to clarify it.0 -
You don't know what this thread is about? That's worrying. Lots of Boardsies clearly do? What do you need help with? We can break it down into simpler terms?
I was beyond helpful and polite. I always am. Minutes afterwards I picked up a load of stuff an Argos manager and a shopper had dropped and helped them bring it all back to the customer service desk. If you think though, that customer service policies should turn on the flippant basis of whether people like people or not, or whether you curry their favour, that is a very sad state of affairs. Other than that, your contribution seems to cast an indirect slur on my character; and that is against the rules of Boards.ie. Or what exactly did you mean by "As with most retailers if you are civil and reasonable to the staff they tend to be more flexible in their dealings with you" ?
This thread is about: -
1. claiming your full rights under the Sale of Goods Act, not merely what retailers offer.
2. using the CORRECT ADDRESS in pressing your claims
3. using the Small Claims Court ONLINE. It makes it very easy.
4. increasing awareness that many retailers, not just Argos, are muddying the waters in Ireland regarding consumer rights. They must do the proving, not you.
I do not understand the passive aggression in your post. I am a kind, decent and extremely honest person. And I count the items that I have broken in my life on one hand. If that upsets your day, God help you, whoever you are.
I will submit the correct address for pursuing Argos here tomorrow. I need to clarify it.
Why does an address need to be clarified? This is beginning to look like a wind-up.0 -
You don't know what this thread is about? That's worrying. Lots of Boardsies clearly do? What do you need help with? We can break it down into simpler terms?
I was beyond helpful and polite. I always am. Minutes afterwards I picked up a load of stuff an Argos manager and a shopper had dropped and helped them bring it all back to the customer service desk. If you think though, that customer service policies should turn on the flippant basis of whether people like people or not, or whether you curry their favour, that is a very sad state of affairs. Other than that, your contribution seems to cast an indirect slur on my character; and that is against the rules of Boards.ie. Or what exactly did you mean by "As with most retailers if you are civil and reasonable to the staff they tend to be more flexible in their dealings with you" ?
This thread is about: -
1. claiming your full rights under the Sale of Goods Act, not merely what retailers offer.
2. using the CORRECT ADDRESS in pressing your claims
3. using the Small Claims Court ONLINE. It makes it very easy.
4. increasing awareness that many retailers, not just Argos, are muddying the waters in Ireland regarding consumer rights. They must do the proving, not you.
I do not understand the passive aggression in your post. I am a kind, decent and extremely honest person. And I count the items that I have broken in my life on one hand. If that upsets your day, God help you, whoever you are.
I will submit the correct address for pursuing Argos here tomorrow. I need to clarify it.
Are you replying to the correct person?
I never accused you of been either nice or nasty to their staff.
I have not tried to slur your character. Your posts are enough for us to determine your character, as are mine.
I have not said that been nice to staff is a basis for their services policies.
And I have not stated that it ruined my day.
What I said was that in my experience I have found that been civil and reasonable to the staff they tend to be more flexible in their dealings with you. That is all.0 -
Hi yes, similar to that. Not caused by any knocks on our part. caused by an over-flimsy screen on the MSI U180. Complained about by others here http://www.fixya.com/support/t14016413-msi_wind_u180_netbook_lcd_screen_looks
You know how Zener was able to link to your Ink Blot straight away? That's a cracked LCD caused by picking up the screen by the corner of the panel. Every light thin Netbook would have this flaw and I have seen hundreds of those cracks.
Your issue was caused by misuse of the product. Your refund was granted simply because it was the cheaper option.0 -
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Wow. My head hurts.0
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