Did you baptise your kids? (Atheist parents poll)

Tim Robbins

Before I had kids I was NO WAY ARE THEY BEING BAPTISED. About 0.5% of the time, I wonder should they have got their chance for advanced Santa - just like I did. Then the thought runs out of my heads pretty quickly when I think about the Church and everything it stands for.

That said, I know loads of people who are non - religious who still baptise their kids. Occasionally you meet one who hasn't been baptised and you sort wink and say "see you in the Educate Together".

So my question is to the atheist parents, did you do it?

redfacedbear

Both mine are baptised - the missus being the driving force behind the decision. When the first one came along I put up some resistance but she was a cultural catholic and hyper-concerned about making sure the daughter wouldn't be marked as different in a way that would scar her for life - not something I would be overly worried about but a real concern for her. The clincher for me was the educational issue - no ET available at the time - so I relented.


The discussion at the time did move my missus's thinking on - you couldn't call her a catholic of any colour anymore but still daughter no. 2 got the head wetted too. Again education was my main concern - this time thinking long-term about secondary as ET had arrived in the meantime.


It's not something I'm overly worried about - apart from one Gran putting up some nominal RCC support it's the only indoctrination they've gotten.

SmilingLurker

No, and we won't. We are hoping my daughter will get into the local educate together school, but if not a school will have to take her.

Neither of us believe, both our parents have accepted or agree so it has been hassle free. Having a church free wedding helps, no one expects a baby dipping

Chattastrophe!

I'm pregnant at the moment and we have no intention of baptising the child. I know already that I'll get hassle from my side of the family for that decision, but I'll handle that when the time comes.

My school of choice is a local ET school. I don't want them to be taught things in school that I can't back up at home. Equally I don't want them to feel left out, by being excused from religion class etc either. There are plenty of great ET schools close to us, so I definitely wouldn't consider baptising the child just to have more choices of schools available to us.

smacl

Didn't baptize either of ours, though I suspect their granny may have done a DIY job in the kitchen sink on one of her many days babysitting. They both went to the local educate together primary, though the elder opted for an all girls catholic secondary school as that's where her mates were going. No burning crosses in the front garden quite yet!

lazygal

No. It was something we agreed on before we got married and had children and it would have been a bit of a dealbreaker for me if a partner had very strong wishes to baptise.

There are no circumstances in which we'd baptize, especially not to placate family or get into a school. I don't buy the 'not wanting children to be left out arguments' either - children are always going to be left out of something, be it living far from school, not being good at sports, not being chosen for a school play. I don't want to teach my children that you go along with something just because most other people are doing it.


I have noticed we are a rarity among our peers. Most couples we know have one atheist or not so committed faith based person who'd prefer not to baptise but goes along with it, even with serious reservations. It always seems to be the norm to baptise rather than not do it, even when people have vehemently said they won't go ahead with it. Ditto for church weddings - and I think because we didn't do a church wedding not baptising wasn't seen as a major statement.

smacl

lazygal wrote: »

Ditto for church weddings - and I think because we didn't do a church wedding not baptising wasn't seen as a major statement.

We'd already been living together for over 20 years and had our kids before getting married, so they were somewhat past their sell by date for baptizing / christening etc... On the plus side, they helped pick the music for the registry office; Ramones, Zappa and Fatboy slim. I really don't get the whole spending a fortune getting married in a church followed by dodgy hotel reception thing, when you can throw a stonking party and have a fantastic holiday for a fraction of the price.

Akrasia

We have 3 juicy new child souls that the RC church haven't managed to get their mits on

The oldest is starting in the local Gaelscoil for his pre-school year on Monday, and he'll continue on to the primary school next year.

The headmaster said that they're a catholic school but the lack of a Baptismal cert didn't prove an issue to us.

When it comes to the religious stuff in the school, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, but I'm currently having fantasies that my kids will be sitting down the back of the class reading copies of 'Junior Skeptic' whille the rest of his class are up at the top learning boring songs about imaginary creatures.

sbsquarepants

I'm getting the baby done next week. I'm not all that happy about it, but it's hardly the end of the world. Missus is the driving force behind it, despite not being in any way religious (women, who even tries to understand what goes in their heads?). I thought her parents would have been the ones pushing for it (they are both uber-devout) but in fact it was almost the opposite, they, like me, didn't see the point in just doing it for the sake of doing it.
Any way it's meaningless to me, so i have no intention of having a row with the missus over it - it would only eat into the precious time we spend arguing over everything else:D

RustyNut

We didn't get our daughter "done" and never considered it.

She went to an ET primary school and is now in a vec run secondary school. Her religion or lack of it never even came up as a question in either school, in fact the only time we were ever asked was in Crumlin Hospital and that seemed to just be a standard box ticking exercise as the no thanks answer to what religion is she didn't raise an eyebrow.

A little pressure from the maternal grandparents was very short lived as they knew it was not going to work and accepted our decision.

kylith

I have no kids, but when I do they wont' be baptised and OH is in agreement.

OP, you haven't taken away their chance for 'advanced Santa', you've given them the option to make up their own mind when they're old enough to do so.

And, frankly, signing your kids up to a religion when you regard it as 'advanced Santa' is hugely disrespectful to that religion.

eyescreamcone

No I didn't baptise my child.

I didn't think it would be appropriate as neither my wife or myself are not members of any religion/cult.

Anyone who signs their kids up for this nonsense and does not believe in it is a hypocrite.

eviltwin

Our eldest is but we were semi believers then. We've since turned our backs on religion so the second child wasn't. He's nearly 4 now and my side of the family still haven't come to terms with it We've been told everything from its "weird" to being told we're setting our child up for a life of being bullied.

So far its not been an issue but I know we will have problems when it comes to getting him into school this time next year. The ET's here are way over subscribed and we are unlikely to get him a place. Even if the local Rcc school will take him I don't really want him in a school with a religious ethos.

MrPudding

3/4 of my kids are baptised. I was not particularly happy about it but did it for the same of a quiet life. My mother was quite insistent, but my OH's mother is a very old fashioned, very catholic French lady, so there was a lot of pressure on the OH. At the time I didn't particularly care, it was an excuse for a get together with friends we had not see. For a while.

My youngest has not been baptised. My feelings had hardened when she was born and even the prospect of a good piss up was not sufficient.

[Edit]Have not voted as there is no mixed option.

MrP

Kiwi in IE

We came over for a holiday when Little Kiwi was 11 months old. At the time we were still living in New Zealand. My view of religion was that it is a quaint, traditional, old fashioned set of beliefs, but pretty harmless. My future mother in law seemed to think it very important that Little Kiwi be baptised while we were here. I was VERY naive about religion, saw no harm in it and went along with it. I kind of felt it was something we could give her that she felt was important since her son and grandson lived over the other side of the world.

Then we decided to move here and my opinion on religion changed very rapidly. I quickly realised the impact of a whole country being the same religion and that religion therefore having power and influence on public policy and that it is far from harmless. I have regretted it ever since and he won't be doing confirmation or communion and no future child will be baptised in any religion.

sbsquarepants

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Anyone who signs their kids up for this nonsense and does not believe in it is a hypocrite.

I'm inclined to agree with you, even though i'm one of those hypocrites - but i feel the bigger battle is in fighting indoctrination, not in more or less meaningless ceremonies. I personally feel it's just not worth having a row with my missus over, however stupid i find her point of view to be (i had originaly thought the row would be with her parents, and i wasn't all that willing to have that either, but the pair of them have surprised me!).
It's really just a quite life thing for me, even though i know that's purely taking the easy way out!

Cienciano

I have 2 baptised, but like most it's because of the other half. At least they're church of ireland and not catholic!

Kiwi in IE

Although it does annoy me that he is baptised, at the end of the day it is no more meaningful than if someone had cast a spell on him to turn him into a frog!

vicwatson

Yes, parental pressure, and it was a mistake.

eyescreamcone

Is it an Irish thing that adult children still bow down to parental pressure many years after leaving the nest???

If my parents told me what school to send the kids to, where to buy a house or what car to drive; I'd say thanks for the advice but I'm an adult now and make my own decisions.

I think my parents respect that I can make decisions for myself.
They may not like my decisions, but meh!

Turtwig

Tlachtga wrote: »

I'm pregnant at the moment

Totally off topic. Congrats!

MrPudding

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Is it an Irish thing that adult children still bow down to parental pressure many years after leaving the nest???

If my parents told me what school to send the kids to, where to buy a house or what car to drive; I'd say thanks for the advice but I'm an adult now and make my own decisions.

I think my parents respect that I can make decisions for myself.
They may not like my decisions, but meh!

I wasn't particularly bothered about the pressure from my mum, I could have resisted that. Most pressure came from my French GF's mother, and to a lessor extent with our first, her grandmother. So not just an Irish thing, I think simply a catholic thing.

MrP

Mena

Nope. Neither of them and no regrets.

3DataModem

Both yes.

Apart from the religious aspect which means nothing to me, gathering to celebrate the naming of a child is a nice old tradition, and a nice reason to get together with friends and family.

It doesn't change them in the slightest, so the appeal of the tradition / gathering aspects far outweighed any views I had on the organisation running the ceremony.

Banbh

Those who go along with baptism while not believing in it are setting themselves and their children up for a lot of pressure - communion, confirmation, hospital stays and a lot more.

To the Catholic mind, those kids have 'property of the Catholic Church' stamped on them.

We stood by our beliefs - no baptism or other religious hokum.

Chattastrophe!

3DataModem wrote: »

Both yes.

Apart from the religious aspect which means nothing to me, gathering to celebrate the naming of a child is a nice old tradition, and a nice reason to get together with friends and family.

It doesn't change them in the slightest, so the appeal of the tradition / gathering aspects far outweighed any views I had on the organisation running the ceremony.

I like the idea of doing some sort of a naming ceremony (perhaps humanist), but without the religious aspect.

lazygal

Banbh wrote: »

Those who go along with baptism while not believing in it are setting themselves and their children up for a lot of pressure - communion, confirmation, hospital stays and a lot more.

To the Catholic mind, those kids have 'property of the Catholic Church' stamped on them.

We stood by our beliefs - no baptism or other religious hokum.

As I said in my first post, nothing would have made us baptise. I agree it only leads to a lifetime of sham events, and perpetuates the view that its the 'normal' thing to do, making life more difficult for those who stand over their principles.

whatdoicare

Baby whatdoicare is 5 weeks old today and we just received confirmation that she's no.4 on the list for our local ET school. We won't be signing her up to any cults any time soon.
Both myself and husband made this decision - now to await the **** storm my mother is about to unleash! Fun times.

Banbh

Your mother might be pleased that you are standing up for your own opinions.

whatdoicare

Banbh wrote: »

Your mother might be pleased that you are standing up for your own opinions.

Hahahahahahahaha........Nope.

Turtwig

whatdoicare wrote: »

Baby whatdoicare is 5 weeks old today and we just received confirmation that she's no.4 on the list for our local ET school. We won't be signing her up to any cults any time soon.
Both myself and husband made this decision - now to await the **** storm my mother is about to unleash! Fun times.

Congrats!:)

smcgiff

I like the ET in principle. However, the primary education ones that I know of would attract a lot of non native children which adds teaching complications and will, imo, take up more of the teacher's time.

I don't let my lack of belief in a creator get in the way of being pragmatic. Regarding this being hypocritical, maybe. Whereas we actively encouraged belief in santa and all that good stuff, we never promoted religion, but did/will do all the ceremonies.

We spent a lot more time organising easter egg hunts and the like.

smacl

smcgiff wrote: »

I like the ET in principle. However, the primary education ones that I know of would attract a lot of non native children which adds teaching complications and will, imo, take up more of the teacher's time.

I think the benefits that this diversity this brings greatly outweigh any additional workload on the teachers. The ET school my kids went to also had a number of special needs kids, and while you'd think that this would primarily be a drain in teacher resources, it actually ends up being enriching for the other kids who really make that extra effort for their mates. The pluralist multicultural nature of educate together IMHO stands children in far better stead going forward in a modern Ireland. You also have to ask what amount of childrens time and teaching resource is consumed in a faith school teaching religious education?

FWIW, I'm totally biased, having gone to the first educate together school in the late 70s with Florrie Armstrong at the helm. Amazing what she and the educate together people have achieved since then.

vicwatson

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Is it an Irish thing that adult children still bow down to parental pressure many years after leaving the nest???

If my parents told me what school to send the kids to, where to buy a house or what car to drive; I'd say thanks for the advice but I'm an adult now and make my own decisions.

I think my parents respect that I can make decisions for myself.
They may not like my decisions, but meh!

Eh, not my parents - Hers infact so relax a bit.

lazygal

smcgiff wrote: »

I like the ET in principle. However, the primary education ones that I know of would attract a lot of non native children which adds teaching complications and will, imo, take up more of the teacher's time.

I don't let my lack of belief in a creator get in the way of being pragmatic. Regarding this being hypocritical, maybe. Whereas we actively encouraged belief in santa and all that good stuff, we never promoted religion, but did/will do all the ceremonies.

We spent a lot more time organising easter egg hunts and the like.

Do you only want your children mixing with a certain 'type' of child? I see the diversity in ET schools as the strongest point. My Catholic primary school had a mixed bag of other faiths in it too, we had a programme for refugees from Lebanon and Bosnia and special needs children were also part of most classrooms. I think its pragmatic to make sure your child has a good social mix to interact with, rather than only coming into contact with 'native' children, whatever that means.
I also think vast amount of teaching time are wasted on indoctrination in faith schools. I remember second and sixth classes being a write off after Christmas because of communions and confirmations being prepared for, ditto masses in secondary school most weeks for this, that and the other.

lazygal

vicwatson wrote: »

Eh, not my parents - Hers infact so relax a bit.

So she bows down to them and allows them to dictate decisions for your family? I'd be pretty insulted if my husband did something just because his parents thought it was a good idea, and I was opposed to it.

robindch

While neither mrs Robindch nor I baptized Snowflake, we both hold a lingering suspicion, verging on certainty, that very early on, Popette did.

robindch

smcgiff wrote: »

However, the primary education ones that I know of would attract a lot of non native children which adds teaching complications and will, imo, take up more of the teacher's time.

No doubt because the local catholic-controlled schools shoves non-catholics, mostly non-native, to the back of the queue.

Snowflake's class of 28 has, so far as I remember, 6 kids born of one or more non-native parents and I can't say it's had any downside at all.

smcgiff

lazygal wrote: »

Do you only want your children mixing with a certain 'type' of child? .

As much as you may like it, this has nothing to do with snobbery. It's simply down to the time that can be taken up if there are a lot of kids from a non English speaking home. It's even worse now that class sizes are increasing and less teaching support. I think time spent on preparing for religious studies is a waste, but less of a disruption.

smcgiff

robindch wrote: »

No doubt because the local catholic-controlled schools shoves non-catholics, mostly non-native, to the back of the queue.

Snowflake's class of 28 has, so far as I remember, 6 kids born of one or more non-native parents and I can't say it's had any downside at all.

Re first sentence. I'm not going to defend faith based schools.

Re second sentence. Great.

smacl

smcgiff wrote: »

I think time spent on preparing for religious studies is a waste, but less of a disruption.

Fair play in taking the pragmatic line in doing what you believe what is best for your children, nothing wrong there whatsoever. However, I think you're underestimating the disruption that being an atheist in a catholic school can potentially bring. If your child is the inquisitive strong willed type that likes to speak their mind, your setting him/her up for conflict with their teachers and peers, insofar as at some point you'll have to tell the child that what the teachers are saying is wrong. While you're avoiding the ET schools as they're taking in a minority of students that don't speak English as their first language, you're entering your child into a school where she/he is part of a similar minority that doesn't worship the one true God. I don't doubt that there would be other more zealous parents in that school that would be far happier if atheists such as your child weren't admitted. In this case, the path of least resistance to follow as a member of a minority is to get your child to put and shut up. Any other path and the amount of disruption will be considerably more than having a few class mates having to learn English. Not great when you think about it.

recedite

Our kids were baptised at the insistence of OH. Its a cause of some friction, but not a dealbreaker. Sometimes they ask why I never attend the church, and I explain to them. They seem well balanced so far. I think they have some extra immunity to indoctrination, just by knowing that there are alternative views out there.

Mustard1972

Im an Athiest so whats the harm having the head wetted.
Cant say having the kids baptised has caused any problems at all for us.
In fact it was nice seeing them make their communion and kinda sad when their friends were in the house asking them what it was like and how much did they make with tears in their eyes because they were left out of something all their friends did.

Doesnt bother me in the least if anyone else believes in whatever god or fairy or whatever they want to believe in.
Really hate militant Athiests though. They are worse than believers to be fair.

Morag

I'm not an athiest or an agnostic but I didn't baptise mine, they self id currently as agnostics.

Cienciano

Banbh wrote: »

Those who go along with baptism while not believing in it are setting themselves and their children up for a lot of pressure - communion, confirmation, hospital stays and a lot more.

To the Catholic mind, those kids have 'property of the Catholic Church' stamped on them.

We stood by our beliefs - no baptism or other religious hokum.

What's the story with hospital stays? Not sure what extra pressure there is. Speaking for myself, all being raised a catholic really meant was a half hour doss class a day in primary school. It wouldn't bother me what imaginary stamp is on their heads, we all know the only time is counts is on a census forum.

smcgiff

smacl,

We let them find out about santa by themselves. Similar with god.

You may be surprised by the number of teachers that don't care about religion and teach it a lot less than what is sceduled on the curriculum. Hell, some of them don't even believe in a god. I think it's given a lot less prominence now than before.

So, my children didn't have any problem going through primary school.

vicwatson

lazygal wrote: »

So she bows down to them and allows them to dictate decisions for your family? I'd be pretty insulted if my husband did something just because his parents thought it was a good idea, and I was opposed to it.

That's you init?

Get off your high horse there Nelly !:)

It's in the past

MrPudding

Banbh wrote: »

Those who go along with baptism while not believing in it are setting themselves and their children up for a lot of pressure - communion, confirmation, hospital stays and a lot more.

To the Catholic mind, those kids have 'property of the Catholic Church' stamped on them.

We stood by our beliefs - no baptism or other religious hokum.

I am lucky, I suppose, in that I currently live in the UK and have specifically avoided the catholic school option, which I am very, very lucky to have the option of doing. I have had a number of colleagues tell me I should send my kids to catholic schools as they have better results... Not convinced of that, and even if it were true I could not stomach it.

MrP

Bannasidhe

Nope.
This was back in the early 80s so not-baptising was unheard of but I basically said it would be pure hypocrisy for me to have my child signed up to a religion a) I don't believe, b)Dislike and c)Distrust.
The pressure wasn't too great as I was living in London so when they started I just hung up the phone.

I was warned when we came back to Ireland we would face huge problems getting him into a school - well, we kinda did. Couldn't get him into the nearest school with all his mates as it was full. It was a C.O.I school and it was full of Catholics :rolleyes:.
So he went to the 2nd nearest 'Catholic' school instead.

Grandkids are baptised but son didn't have much option there as being an unmarried father he was simply overruled but the fight is gearing up now over Hermione's communion.

She is adamant she doesn't want to do it as she does not believe there is a god and getting quite frustrated when she is told she is 'too young' to understand. Her perfectly logical counter argument is if she is too young to 'understand' then she is also too young to 'do this communion thing that says I believe in this god cos how can I be expected to understand that if I am too young. Why can't I decide myself when I am old enough to 'understand'. '

Son now has Guardianship in place so legally has an input into religion of his kids and is backing Hermoine all the way.

It's coming down to atheist/agnostic paternal side Vs claims to be athiest but goes along with it/Opus Dei maternal side.

Essentially, Hermoine's maternal grandfather is an Opus Dei fundamentalist Catholic who is demanding he has his way and using financial/emotional pressure to ensure he gets it.

It may sound petty to some, but if Hermoine is forced to do this, it will be very much against her will, and I will not be attending. She is being bullied and I will not condone it by being present.

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Essentially, Hermoine's maternal grandfather is an Opus Dei fundamentalist Catholic who is demanding he has his way and using financial/emotional pressure to ensure he gets it.

It may sound petty to some, but if Hermoine is forced to do this, it will be very much against her will, and I will not be attending. She is being bullied and I will not condone it by being present.

Oh wow, just saw this. She IS being bullied, poor kid (as is her mother, by the sounds of it - perhaps it's a family tradition?). Can't imagine what would have happened if my paternal grandda had any money/emotional hold to bribe either of my folks back into religion. Actually, I would imagine DIVORCE.

If she's forced into it, suggest not going to the church but whisk her off for a consolation ice-cream whilst telling her she's in good company with most of the country being counted as religious against their will. Y'know yerself. Eww, bollox. I'm feeling the pain of that. :mad:

I'm so lucky. Not baptised, etc. and neither are my kids. Phew, saved that trauma anyway.

Dades

Mine are baptised, but only because the missis is your average Irish 'catholic' and wanted it.

In other circumstances I wouldn't have had it done, but marriage is all about compromise, people.