Moderation or lack there of in The Ray D'Arcy Show Thread?

Deedsie

RopeDrink wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but is this about a problem 'thread' or a problem 'forum' now?

It's gone from being a topic about coming to a helpful conclusion on the Ray Darcy thread issue (Something I think was achieved, though whether it is maintained we have yet to see), to a quote of you wanting full Radio Modding to be done differently, this coming before some comparison between Radio and the Television Forum (It's generally not wise to compare two different forums), and coming after your method of posting PM's from a Moderator for the general public to read in a manner that could have done them damage.

I'm not surprised some are claiming your feedback is a bit sharp regardless of whether it was intended or not. We all want to improve the Forums we enjoy but being too pushy tends to turn people off in most cases.

Keep in mind I'm giving an opinion based on everything up to a point. I'm trying to steer clear of getting in the Mods hair over the issue and am at best a mediator - But from what I've seen they've rallied somewhat after the issue for a group chat (What they've decided on I've no idea, I posted some views and then let them get stuck in) and have acted almost immediately to most if not all recent reported posts lately and that's a good sign to me.

Deleting the thread would be the easy and quick option but that's not the most helpful in this case as it's regarding a thread that's been active for quite some time and would see a loss if it's just chucked in the bin and gives the impression it is now a forbidden topic, which would be pretty silly, even if it would obliterate a lot of bile in the process and 'deliver a message'. On top of that, just starting it anew doesn't exactly guarantee the problem won't persist, it just means it's stamped on a little harder when it appears and will probably effect similar threads in the future because babysitting one and letting the other roam free is just asking for trouble.

Ultimately it is down to the Moderators and won't be done instantly.

You could, of course, PM them and ask them to check this thread and ask if they would be willing to part with some of their thoughts here.

I mean, I could continue to argue over this but it really is not worth the effort. I will continue to use the report feature as it is. Thanks for reading.

apollo8

Calhoun wrote: »

Your original post was on 23rd you removed the private message on 25th or posted to say you had. I can't see when you edited it but it still wasn't right. Not to be condescending but the folks who deserve respect are the mods, the volunteer free time and deal with cramp behind the scene you probably will never see.

Following on from this your posts are very pointed , maybe you don't intend it but your tone when asking for feedback is demanding.

Site registration doesn't mean your above reproach, i and many responding have been posting longer and I don't know about them but I don't agree with your approach.

I also don't agree with your solution because of the cause and effect it would have for other threads.

Tired of reading the highlighted above on boards.mods are volunteers if they don't like the heat they should get out of the kitchen!.

Insect Overlord

apollo8 wrote: »

Tired of reading the highlighted above on boards.mods are volunteers if they don't like the heat they should get out of the kitchen!.

How many times have you read it since June?

Splinter

apollo8 wrote: »

Tired of reading the highlighted above on boards.mods are volunteers if they don't like the heat they should get out of the kitchen!.

Just to reply on this point, the mods in the radio forum aren't the ones saying they are having an issue here so this is nothing to do with the topic. Calhoun was simply stating an opinion

Annasopra

After reading this thread I went and read briefly through the Derek Mooney thread. The abuse there is unreal. In particular I find some of the tags on the Derek Mooney thread really offensive.

Ken.

How about a simple if you wouldn't say it to the persons face don't post it rule.

Annasopra

Thanks Ropedrink

Is there any chance the tags on the Derek Mooney show thread could be removed?

LoLth

ken wrote: »

How about a simple if you wouldn't say it to the persons face don't post it rule.

problem with that is what do you do when the poster says something vile and then asserts that he would , in fact, say it to their face and would love the opportunity to do so....

rules are problematic in that, too specific and some users will find a way around them and then use the charter as a pedantic club to beat the mods over the head with because they think they are somehow "winning the internetz"

too vague and you risk misinterpretation or worse, inconsistent modding.

padd b1975

Any chance of some input from the radio mods to this thread?

hullaballoo

padd b1975 wrote: »

Any chance of some input from the radio mods to this thread?

There has been input from the radio Mods, and there has been quite a lot of input from CMods and Admins.

Splinter

padd b1975 wrote: »

Any chance of some input from the radio mods to this thread?

I won't speak for the others, but this is my forth reply out of 52 posts


the tags have been removed, apologies, my theme wasn't showing them so I completely forgot about them!

Splinter

padd b1975

hullaballoo wrote: »

There has been input from the radio Mods, and there has been quite a lot of input from CMods and Admins.

Nothing really of substance from the actual Mods of the forum to be fair.
Admins have been really pro-active on this, credit where it's due.

All I see is a whinge from Itzy about not having the time to give the forum the necessary attention needed and a genuine apology from Splinter for not keeping an eye on things.

Mooney thread probably gets less than double figures of posts per day on average, D'Arcy thread slightly more I would guess.

Any mod that can't keep on top of that rate of posting really needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I am just being honest, nothing personal.

OldGoat

padd b1975 wrote: »

Nothing really of substance from the actual Mods of the forum to be fair.

I find that post to be very disingenuous.
There is a problem with some of the threads in the forum and it been raised. Mods have agreed there is an issue to be sorted.
Mods are doing the mod thing by engaging both in private and in public to sort it out.
By my quick reckoning there is roughly 25% input into this thread by just the Radio mods and cmods. That is not taking into account mods from other forums or from Admin.
The mods and cmods are actively engaged in this thread and to casually dismiss that engagement is poor form.

padd b1975

OldGoat wrote: »

I find that post to be very disingenuous.
There is a problem with some of the threads in the forum and it been raised. Mods have agreed there is an issue to be sorted.
Mods are doing the mod thing by engaging both in private and in public to sort it out.
By my quick reckoning there is roughly 25% input into this thread by just the Radio mods and cmods. That is not taking into account mods from other forums or from Admin.
The mods and cmods are actively engaged in this thread and to casually dismiss that engagement is poor form.

I stand over my post.

Quick question for you as a Cmod....

Generally speaking, how busy does a thread have to be before it's unreasonable to expect a mod to keep on top of every post, with or without the assistance of reported posts, which 1 radio mod seems to mysteriously have a problem with?

P. Breathnach

Some observations:

• The mods in the Radio forum have been dilatory in the recent past. I report posts in various forums, and in every other forum where I have made reports I have noticed visible mod response in a high percentage of them. That suggests to me that I generally "get it" about what constitutes unacceptable posts. The mod reaction rate to reports I have made in the Radio forum has been far lower. I formed the impression that reports were being ignored - not read, considered, and deemed not to merit action, but not even considered.
• We have a declaration of intent about the future moderation of the forum. I'm prepared to wait and see how that develops.
• I think it would be extraordinarily difficult to go back through long threads and clean them up. You can't simply delete posts, because then many responses suddenly fail to make sense, and much of the ugly stuff is contained in the same post as valid and relevant content. In my opinion, the best action might be to lock some current superthreads and create fresh ones with a strong mod advisory note in the opening post.
• There will always be a problem about having a clear line on what constitutes abuse. Some posters in the radio forum habitually take pot-shots at broadcasters where few of the posts cross the line, but the cumulative effect can amount to something like a campaign against a particular broadcaster That sort of thing could be a moderation nightmare.

OldGoat

padd b1975 wrote: »

I stand over my post.

Quick question for you as a Cmod....

Generally speaking, how busy does a thread have to be before it's unreasonable to expect a mod to keep on top of every post, with or without the assistance of reported posts, which 1 radio mod seems to mysteriously have a problem with?

I would stand down before I ever told a mod that he/she has to be online reading a particular thread at a particular time.

I do not expect mods to be omnipresent, sitting behind their desks ready and willing to moderate every post of every thread as it happens - which seems to me as to what you are asking for.

What are you hoping for? What do you see as a workable solution?

Deedsie

Is Boards.ie intended to facilitate people with a platform to bitch and moan and say some really harsh things against "celebrities"? I honestly think the ethos and general atmosphere of the site is better than that.

Soccer mods are on the ball (pun intended) and take no crap at all from posters. During a big game there could be hundreds of posts within 90 minutes.

The zero tolerance on illegal activities such as illegal downloading etc is to be totally congratulated. It's a great site in general, but the way the TV and Radio forum in particular are moderated in relation to nasty jibes on celebs personal lives leave a lot to be desired. If posters want to comment on celebs personal lives direct them to twitter or the celeb forum on boards.ie?

The homophobic tags on the Derek Mooney thread up to yesterday were a bloody disgrace. Well done on the mods for removing them, I'd never noticed them until a poster here mentioned them. I'm sure the mods didn't see it either so genuine good on whichever mod cleared that up.

Edit, it's not just the big threads the problem lies...

The Aoibhinn Ní Shuilleabháin thread openly bellitled her position posters claiming she only got the job due to her relationship with Ryan Tubridy? How is the relating to the content of the show? What evidence is there to support it?

The Off the ball thread, the absolute glee on some of the posts there when the old team left and it looked like a bad decision. It was horrible to read such pleasure in an uncomfortable position for those lads to be in. I don't like Colm Parkinson's contributions on the current off the ball show, but he takes too much abuse on that thread.

padd b1975

OldGoat wrote: »

I would stand down before I ever told a mod that he/she has to be online
reading a particular thread at a particular time.

I would not expect that either.

I do not expect mods to be omnipresent, sitting behind their desks ready and
willing to moderate every post of every thread as it happens - which seems to me
as to what you are asking for.

I do not expect that either, nor have I asked for it.
As I said earlier its not unreasonable to expect a mod to spend a few minutes running through a thread that would have generated a handful of posts in the previous day.

Its part and parcel of moderating a forum I would think.

What are you hoping for? What do you see as a workable solution?

I would hope for a marked improvement in action taken by mods against those who breach the charter.

Some of the crap that has been posted would not fly for one second on other forums, the radio forum should be no different.

I think for something workable, what was suggested earlier is best; draw a line under the offending threads and start over with the renewed energised attitude of the mods.

LoLth

apollo8 wrote: »

Tired of reading the highlighted above on boards.mods are volunteers if they don't like the heat they should get out of the kitchen!.

Might I suggest that you are nowhere near as sick of hearing that as mods/cmods/admins are sick of being expected to behave as if this is a 24/7 , 365 days-a-year , 5 minute SLA, highly paid tech support job where we are paid to leave all personal opinions at the door and to completely ignore our personal lives for the benefit of the paying customers and that you will hear it a lot less if people start remembering that mods ARE volunteers giving their time to help provide and build a community and a place for like and not-so-like minded individuals can have a discussion without pointless aggravation and interruption from the minority who get some kick out of breaking something just because it can be broken and for whom the anonymity* of the internet is a godsend because now they can do so across the world without having to damage their reputation.

I apologise to anyone who finds this post harsh but I am honestly tired of having to defend volunteers who act professionally. yes mods get the prestige of being mods, but thats it. they dont get any special treatment (ok, well, maybe an invite to a beer if there's one on...and so far thats been less than 1/year on average).

Rather than point fingers at the mods who havent cleaned up an insult, perhaps the finger would be better pointed at the user who cant resist the opportunity to spout crap from the safety of the keyboard just because they believe they have some right to be as insulting and vile as they can be and they insist on exercising that "right" at any given moment.

Criticise a mod's ability in a constructive fashion? absolutely
make suggestions about how X could be done better? definitely
Insult a mod personally or question their ethics because they dont meet some imagined standard not imposed by the organisation they volunteer for? no. not on at all.

I can almost guarantee, it would be easier to unleash the mods with a sackful of banhammers but that would just result in a lot of angry posters demanding second chances and claiming that they did not know.

The radio mods and Arts Cmods have participated in this thread far more than they are required to (the requirement being zero, any participation in a feedback thread is a courtesy imho) now please lets let them take the criticism on board, review it and then decide for themselves what action is best for the community under their care.


*that's just the first misconception

P. Breathnach

RopeDrink wrote: »

... The problem in Radio is the handling of posts that directly target presenters in an abusive manner....

Or participants.

Should this be considered acceptable? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86299270&postcount=2182

Splinter

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Or participants.

Should this be considered acceptable? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86299270&postcount=2182

I saw your report, and it wasn't something that was being ignored, what would you have preferred we do? If you feel your report wasn't being actioned, why not PM the mods?

It was something I was waiting for clarification from others on the post before it was actioned by myself

Splinter

bbability

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Or participants.

Should this be considered acceptable? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86299270&postcount=2182

Just because a post is not dealt with to YOUR satisfaction doesn't mean someone hasn't looked at it. Moderators deal with lots of issues unknown to many who use the forum. So back off and stop trying to moderate the moderators.:mad:

P. Breathnach

I reported two posts in that thread in the past day or two. The more recent one was deleted, so it did not seem unreasonable to me to infer that decisions had been made and no action was being taken on this one. In my opinion, there is no room to doubt that the post was in breach of the charter, as it served no purpose other than to abuse a participant in a radio programme.

Why did I not PM the mods? I have been down this road before, and it has been a more cumbersome process than I would have wished for. And since then, moderation in the forum has become a Feedback topic, so I judged that it was valid to use Feedback to deal with the matter.

I wrote earlier in this thread that I thought there was a need for some re-education of participants in the forum. One way of achieving that is visible moderator actions. In fast-moving threads the moderator action is not noticeable to other users if it is delayed until the post is several pages down. I recognise that sometimes that cannot be avoided, if no moderator is logged on until a day or two after the report is made, but where moderators are online, I think it best if they act without much delay.

A minor point: I thought that reporting posts was done on a confidential basis. I don't mind it being known that I reported that post, but I think it should not have been mentioned.

bbability

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I reported two posts in that thread in the past day or two. The more recent one was deleted, so it did not seem unreasonable to me to infer that decisions had been made and no action was being taken on this one. In my opinion, there is no room to doubt that the post was in breach of the charter, as it served no purpose other than to abuse a participant in a radio programme.

Why did I not PM the mods? I have been down this road before, and it has been a more cumbersome process than I would have wished for. And since then, moderation in the forum has become a Feedback topic, so I judged that it was valid to use Feedback to deal with the matter.

I wrote earlier in this thread that I thought there was a need for some re-education of participants in the forum. One way of achieving that is visible moderator actions. In fast-moving threads the moderator action is not noticeable to other users if it is delayed until the post is several pages down. I recognise that sometimes that cannot be avoided, if no moderator is logged on until a day or two after the report is made, but where moderators are online, I think it best if they act without much delay.

A minor point: I thought that reporting posts was done on a confidential basis. I don't mind it being known that I reported that post, but I think it should not have been mentioned.

Very interesting response. This is no issue with reporting posts. There is an issue when you come here to feedback because it wasn't dealt with to your satisfaction. All reported posts are looked at. Some warrant public warnings, others don't warrant anything only for the mods to keep an eye on the conversation. It's in capable hands once its reported.

Splinter

P. Breathnach wrote: »

A minor point: I thought that reporting posts was done on a confidential basis. I don't mind it being known that I reported that post, but I think it should not have been mentioned.

My apologies on this one, hands up that was an error on my behalf, it wasn't intentional

P. Breathnach

Splinter wrote: »

My apologies on this one, hands up that was an error on my behalf, it wasn't intentional

No offence taken. As I said, I don't mind it being known that I reported that post. I took what you wrote to be an error, and meant only to offer you a reminder.

K-9

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I reported two posts in that thread in the past day or two. The more recent one was deleted, so it did not seem unreasonable to me to infer that decisions had been made and no action was being taken on this one. In my opinion, there is no room to doubt that the post was in breach of the charter, as it served no purpose other than to abuse a participant in a radio programme.

On a general note, because a post wasn't deleted, warned, yellow/red carded or warranted a ban, does not mean no action wasn't taken. A post/poster could be noted, discussed, checked for shills/re-reg's, monitored, maybe even banned and it mightn't be that obvious. It would be rare enough there was no action whatsoever on a reported post.

P. Breathnach

K-9 wrote: »

On a general note, because a post wasn't deleted, warned, yellow/red carded or warranted a ban, does not mean no action wasn't taken. A post/poster could be noted, discussed, checked for shills/re-reg's, monitored, maybe even banned and it mightn't be that obvious. It would be rare enough there was no action whatsoever on a reported post.

This thread exists because of a perception of problems with the moderation of the Radio forum. RopeDrink, as a new Cmod, took a look at the situation and seemed to believe that there is indeed a problem. One of the three-member mod team implicitly acknowledged that there has been a problem and indicated an intention to improve things.

Let's get real here. While I recognise that not all mod actions are visible to non-mods, an abusive post such as the one I cited should be dealt with overtly. It seems that the mods eventually came to that view, as the post was subsequently carded.

Let's get real about something else. I report posts that I think break the rules. - only some of them, of course, as have no intention of acting like a vigilante, but I do want to be helpful to Boards and the moderators. The "Report a Post" button in the Radio forum sometimes feels like the access point to a dustbin: I make a report, and nothing seems to happen.

bbability's robust response seems to me to be unwarranted. In particular, the message "So back off and stop trying to moderate the moderators" reads to me like an effort to put me back in my box. My interpretation of the charter of Feedback is that my posts here are legitimate:

... It is an opportunity for the users to interact with the mods/cmods/admins on equal footing and receive answers to questions. Discussion of mod behaviour / issues will be allowed but must remain non-abusive....

I am participating in this discussion because I believe that there has been a problem in the Radio forum, and I hope to see improvements. It is regrettable that I now need to state a justification for posting here.

Calhoun

P. Breathnach wrote: »

This thread exists because of a perception of problems with the moderation of the Radio forum. RopeDrink, as a new Cmod, took a look at the situation and seemed to believe that there is indeed a problem. One of the three-member mod team implicitly acknowledged that there has been a problem and indicated an intention to improve things.

Let's get real here. While I recognise that not all mod actions are visible to non-mods, an abusive post such as the one I cited should be dealt with overtly. It seems that the mods eventually came to that view, as the post was subsequently carded.

Let's get real about something else. I report posts that I think break the rules. - only some of them, of course, as have no intention of acting like a vigilante, but I do want to be helpful to Boards and the moderators. The "Report a Post" button in the Radio forum sometimes feels like the access point to a dustbin: I make a report, and nothing seems to happen.

bbability's robust response seems to me to be unwarranted. In particular, the message "So back off and stop trying to moderate the moderators" reads to me like an effort to put me back in my box. My interpretation of the charter of Feedback is that my posts here are legitimate:

I am participating in this discussion because I believe that there has been a problem in the Radio forum, and I hope to see improvements. It is regrettable that I now need to state a justification for posting here.

To be fair though is it any wonder that this thread isn't going to plan? I mean it started off with a veiled criticism of the mod team. Then it moved on from there to a new cmod(well intentioned) intervening and possibly stepping on the toes of his mods.

It looks like right now we have a situation where posters are using this thread as a platform to publicly escalate issues about how the radio forum is being modded (escalate to cmod). This in turn then leads the posts from the radio mods to come from a position of justification but also showing they are in control and making firm points.

If there is to be constructive improvement into the radio forum i don't think its going to happen here as this post is not neutral. Maybe in this case a new thread is needed or perhaps one of the "how are we doing" threads within the radio forum and led by the radio mods is needed.

I could have read this one completely wrong but all i know is if i was doing a volunteer job this thread in its current forum would also have me on the defensive.

Deedsie

I started the thread, I an happy for someone to close it and begin a neutral thread on the radio forum and the concerns some posters have about some of the threads over there.

But to be fair the thread evolved and other issues were highlighted in this thread.