Manchester United vs Chelsea match thread.K/o 20.00 26/8/2013 SS1.

Backstreet Moyes

GavRedKing wrote: »

Thats the main point, a loss for either side doesnt real do anything damaging in the long term IMO.

Its our 3rd game and Utds 2nd, its not the end of the world if either team lose tonight although I'm sure a few people will enjoy the melt down in the Utd or Chelsea thread that would follow after a defeat for either.



That would be a WWE style heel turning of epicness. :pac:

Think it's fair to say City's loss yesterday takes a bit of pressure off both teams. Can see both sides settling for a draw.

VW 1

GavRedKing wrote: »

Impossible to guess at this stage.

The back 5 is pretty much set in stone though I reckon and the rest is guess work really.

Cech
Ivan Cahill Jt Cole
Ramires Lamps
Mata De Bruyne Hazard
Torres

Azpilicueta out of favour with Mourinho or injured?

Think Lukaku deserves a shot up front based on what Torres offers.

prettyboy81

As a neutral my prediction Utd in a 3-2 thriller!

Corvo

If Torres starts I'll laugh my hole off. Ferdinand and Vidic will mop him up.

<GavRedKing bookmarks for later to laugh>

grumpymunster

VW 1 wrote: »

Azpilicueta out of favour with Mourinho or injured?

Think Lukaku deserves a shot up front based on what Torres offers.

Dave not really had a pre season and was in South America with the Spanish team recently during those daft preseason international friendlies. Would say more fitness than anything else.

I would start Lukaku we need to keep the ManU defenders honest, he is reasonably fresh from a hat trick against them and is not short of a bit of pace. Himself along with KdB and Haz should at least give the full backs something to think about other than attacking our reasonably weak defence.

grumpymunster

Corvo wrote: »

If Torres starts I'll laugh my hole off. Ferdinand and Vidic will mop him up.

<GavRedKing bookmarks for later to laugh>

If Torres does start the only noise that will drown out the ManU supporters laughing will be Chelsea supporters groaning

Irishcrx

Corvo wrote: »

If Torres starts I'll laugh my hole off. Ferdinand and Vidic will mop him up.

<GavRedKing bookmarks for later to laugh>

He's probably been practising his open goal sharpness since THAT miss. Now that was funny....I nearly wet myself replaying that one over and over...

GavRedKing

Nuts102 wrote: »

Think it's fair to say City's loss yesterday takes a bit of pressure off both teams. Can see both sides settling for a draw.

I still think its too early for anyone team to be considered out right favourites, even if Chelsea win we'll only be 6 points clear and a game more played, means nothing over 35/36 games, had there being 10 games or so left then it would be a huge game but right now its not all that important IMO.

VW 1 wrote: »

Azpilicueta out of favour with Mourinho or injured?

Think Lukaku deserves a shot up front based on what Torres offers.

Azp went over for the Spain Ecuador game and didnt get any game time so was rested for the Hull game, Ivan was used to counter Benteke, which he done, ok and managed to score the winner, he should start.

Lukaku has being brought on for 2 cameo appearences so far this season but I'd be surprised if hes started, I would have expecte dhim to start agaisnt Hull or Villa as they're far inferior to Utd at Old Trafford so Torres will probably get the nod, anyone but Demba Ba anyway.

GavRedKing

Corvo wrote: »

If Torres starts I'll laugh my hole off. Ferdinand and Vidic will mop him up.

<GavRedKing bookmarks for later to laugh>

Torres has enough in his game to trouble both but its his goals returns that will cost us.

Lukaku is more of a goal threat and proved ti last season but Torres is a better footballer and links with the supporting cast better.

Jose has a tough call but I'd expect Torres until 65mins and Lukaku to come and try and bully a tired Utd defence.

sReq | uTeK

Would be happy with the Draw here.

JP Liz V1

2-1 to MU

GLaDOS

Really looking forward to this game, impossible to call imo. Can see it being a tight one, RVP might very well be the difference.

Amirani

Some fighting talk from Moyes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23832347

Hulk Hands

Leroy42 wrote: »

No idea why anybody thinks Manu will win

Because they finished 14 points ahead of Chelsea last term. With the playing squads largely the same, a simplistic view would be 'can the change in management of United losing Fergie and Chelsea gaining Mourinho make up for a 14 point difference in the sides'. There's more to it than that obviously, but id still argue that United squad is stronger with Chelsea having the management advantage. With home advantage, a United victory is the most likely result but it could go any way. Chelsea can take heart from their record over United in the past

GavRedKing

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Because they finished 14 points ahead of Chelsea last term. With the playing squads largely the same, a simplistic view would be 'can the change in management of United losing Fergie and Chelsea gaining Mourinho make up for a 14 point difference in the sides'. There's more to it than that obviously, but id still argue that United squad is stronger with Chelsea having the management advantage. With home advantage, a United victory is the most likely result but it could go any way. Chelsea can take heart from their record over United in the past

Utds defence and Forward line are far superior to ours but our keeper and midfield is superior to Utds, same goes for the manager.

What Chelsea have to do to make up the points is to make sure to see games out, somethig we coudlnt do under our past 3 managers with some horrific results from winning positions were squandered. Will we make up the 14 points, probably not but I dont see Utd getting the same total under Moyes so even if we're off the pace come May we should be alot closer then 14 points.

dfx-

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Because they finished 14 points ahead of Chelsea last term. With the playing squads largely the same, a simplistic view would be 'can the change in management of United losing Fergie and Chelsea gaining Mourinho make up for a 14 point difference in the sides'. There's more to it than that obviously, but id still argue that United squad is stronger with Chelsea having the management advantage. With home advantage, a United victory is the most likely result but it could go any way. Chelsea can take heart from their record over United in the past

Chelsea should've won at Old Trafford in the cup and did win in the league. Was it last season Hernandez won it in London when offside? In a head-to-head there was nothing between them on the pitch..

Corvo

Be very interesting to see how Moyes approaches the game. Will he back off, be wary and try to snatch a goal? That could mean their superior midfield having more of the ball, eventually breaking us down?

Or will he go all guns blazing and try to end it quick? We could then be caught by the pace of Torres, Hazard and Ramieres.

Will Mourinho have got inside his head?

Might tell us a lot about how Moyes will approach other big games.

Pudsy33

GavRedKing wrote: »

Utds defence and Forward line are far superior to ours but our keeper and midfield is superior to Utds, same goes for the manager.

He's not really anymore tbh. Nothing in it.

Vertigo100

GavRedKing wrote: »

Utds defence and Forward line are far superior to ours but our keeper and midfield is superior to Utds, same goes for the manager.

What Chelsea have to do to make up the points is to make sure to see games out, somethig we coudlnt do under our past 3 managers with some horrific results from winning positions were squandered. Will we make up the 14 points, probably not but I dont see Utd getting the same total under Moyes so even if we're off the pace come May we should be alot closer then 14 points.

Can't agree that cech is a better keeper than Dave. After the improvement Dave showed last year I expect this to be the year where he starts to turn into the best in the world.

I have no doubts that Dave will be the best keeper in the world over the coming years. Just hope he stays at united while that happens.

deafroadrunner

Gonna take a guess 3-2 to utd. Rooney to get the winner.

Morzadec

I would predict a draw here.

I think at this early stage of the season both managers will be happy enough with the draw.

Moyes shouldn't of course, but I think the fallout from a home defeat on the 2nd game of the season will be something he may not want to risk.

He may not admit it but I think he'd be relieved enough just not to lose it.

I like under 2.5 too for the week that's in it.

I'll say 1-1

Smithwicks Man

I think Chelsea's starting XI is better all around than United's starting XI if Rooney isn't playing.

Expecting the draw

Rayne Wooney

I think Mourinho will be out to prove a point tonight, he made it clear that he would have taken the United job and Moyes was picked ahead of him. I just can't see him settling for a draw

Andersonisgod

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Can't agree that cech is a better keeper than Dave. After the improvement Dave showed last year I expect this to be the year where he starts to turn into the best in the world.

I have no doubts that Dave will be the best keeper in the world over the coming years. Just hope he stays at united while that happens.

Best in the world? Really? In goalkeeper years he's not far away from the same age as Neuer (a far better goalkeeper) and he's about the same age as Thibaut Courtois (a better goalkeeper). To say he is better now than Cech, just because he had one good season is laughable, bordering on delusion.

Kirby

GavRedKing wrote: »

Utds defence and Forward line are far superior to ours but our keeper and midfield is superior to Utds, same goes for the manager

Pudsy33 wrote: »

He's not really anymore tbh. Nothing in it.

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Can't agree that cech is a better keeper than Dave. After the improvement Dave showed last year I expect this to be the year where he starts to turn into the best in the world.

I have no doubts that Dave will be the best keeper in the world over the coming years. Just hope he stays at united while that happens.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Best in the world? Really? In goalkeeper years he's not far away from the same age as Neuer (a far better goalkeeper) and he's about the same age as Thibaut Courtois (a better goalkeeper). To say he is better now than Cech, just because he had one good season is laughable, bordering on delusion.

Cech is nowhere near the level he was before. De Gea is so much faster and more agile than him. He also has much better reflexes. He isn't the finished article, but on current ability I'd take De Gea over Cech.

To be honest Courtois is better than both of them. Loaning him out again was a mistake.

Andersonisgod

Kirby wrote: »

Cech is nowhere near the level he was before. De Gea is so much faster and more agile than him. He also has much better reflexes. He isn't the finished article, but on current ability I'd take De Gea over Cech.

To be honest Courtois is better than both of them. Loaning him out again was a mistake.

Cech has a far greater presence than De Gea, a far greater command of his box than De Gea, a top class shot stopper but also one of the finest 1 vs 1 keepers around, also a bit of a penalty expert and that's come in quite handy.

Vertigo100

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Best in the world? Really? In goalkeeper years he's not far away from the same age as Neuer (a far better goalkeeper) and he's about the same age as Thibaut Courtois (a better goalkeeper). To say he is better now than Cech, just because he had one good season is laughable, bordering on delusion.

Deluded? Don't think so. I think de gea will be one of the best. Cech isn't a patch on what he used to be. I'll give you neuer but I think de gea will surpass him. Courtois is a good shout but we will see how it goes.

IncognitoMan

I love the way anderson has reacted to an over the top statement. Oh the hypocrisy

Backstreet Moyes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Best in the world? Really? In goalkeeper years he's not far away from the same age as Neuer (a far better goalkeeper) and he's about the same age as Thibaut Courtois (a better goalkeeper). To say he is better now than Cech, just because he had one good season is laughable, bordering on delusion.

What's laughable is you commenting that he had one good season. De Gea was brilliant last season the best in the league. The season before that he was very good after a shaky start besides what the media will have you believe. He was also very good for Madrid also it's why United signed him.

Cech was fantastic before his injury but has never been the same since. Still a very good goalkeeper and their is nothing in it.

niallo27

De gea or Dave as he is being called now really is a bit overrated at this stage. Any slight criticism of the bloke is attacked straight away. If he has a weakness it's his soft wrists and his ability under a cross. I'm sure I'll be attacked for that anyway. I'd have Cech over him myself but I think he will improve.

Nuri Sahin

If Shinji starts, United 5-0 Chelsea.

If Shinji comes off the bench, he might be able to salvage a draw for United, if the damage done before that isn't too bad.

If he doesn't feature at all, United 0-5 Chelsea.

So to conclude this.. no Shinji, no hope.

#FreeShinji! #FreeShinji2K13!

Kirby

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Cech has a far greater presence than De Gea, a far greater command of his box than De Gea, a top class shot stopper but also one of the finest 1 vs 1 keepers around, also a bit of a penalty expert and that's come in quite handy.

He was never a top class shot stopper, even in his prime. A brilliant keeper yes, but agility was never his forte. It wasn't a weakness but there were dozens of keepers superior to him in this regard. He's only gotten weaker at this in recent times and his feet have noticeably slowed down.

I would agree he is quite strong in 1v1 situations and that, a couple of mistakes that everyone makes aside, he is very strong at collecting the ball through bodies. But as a shot stopper, he's lacking.

For example, that Ronaldo free kick that was scored a couple of weeks back was a shot De Gea would have saved. It was hit hard, but was nowhere near the corner. Cech was too slow to react and also went with his wrong hand. Now, it certainly wasn't a keeping howler or anything like that and most keepers would have conceded too......but if we are talking about "world class shot stopping" there are keepers out there who would have stopped it, De Gea being one. The much maligned Joe Hart would have also saved it I'd wager as he's a better long range stopper than Cech.

Cechs slow feet really get him into trouble. Remember that weird banana shot that Cisse scored? It looked great but Cech got himself in an awful mess for it.

Nuri Sahin

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

If Shinji starts, United 5-0 Chelsea.

If Shinji comes off the bench, he might be able to salvage a draw for United, if the damage done before that isn't too bad.

If he doesn't feature at all, United 0-5 Chelsea.

So to conclude this.. no Shinji, no hope.

#FreeShinji2K13!

He needs to get out asap if he doesn't feature this season

Backstreet Moyes

niallo27 wrote: »

De gea or Dave as he is being called now really is a bit overrated at this stage. Any slight criticism of the bloke is attacked straight away. If he has a weakness it's his soft wrists and his ability under a cross. I'm sure I'll be attacked for that anyway. I'd have Cech over him myself but I think he will improve.

I don't really think that he is being overrated. It's only United fans defend him because he gets media attention when he makes a mistake while others don't. The like of Joe Hart constantly called world class when he makes more mistakes than the other top keepers and doesn't get abuse.

Any United fan will tell you how good he is and he will only improve. Cech while fantastic in the past is not what he used to be but still a top keeper.

Andersonisgod

Sure De Gea improved but the extent to which he is overrated by some Man Utd fans on here and ones I know is crazy. Current day De Gea over Cech? Not a chance. Talk of him already being one of the best in the world is exaggeration too, I'd have Casillas, Courtous, Buffon, Valdes, Neuer, Cech, Handanovic, Begovic and probably others ahead of him.

niallo27

Nuts102 wrote: »

I don't really think that he is being overrated. It's only United fans defend him because he gets media attention when he makes a mistake while others don't. The like of Joe Hart constantly called world class when he makes more mistakes than the other top keepers and doesn't get abuse.

Any United fan will tell you how good he is and he will only improve. Cech while fantastic in the past is not what he used to be but still a top keeper.

People are starting to take note of Harts mistakes. He is not untouchable like before.

Kirby

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Sure De Gea improved but the extent to which he is overrated by some Man Utd fans on here and ones I know is crazy. Current day De Gea over Cech? Not a chance. Talk of him already being one of the best in the world is exaggeration too, I'd have Casillas, Courtous, Buffon, Valdes, Neuer, Cech, Handanovic, Begovic and probably others ahead of him.

Valdes? You only think that because you are a Barca fan. Objectively, he was made look good by Barca. He's a decent keeper but not at the level of others on your list.

CastingCouch

I'm going for a tight 4-4 draw.

shrewdness

2-1 to utd, rvp getting at least one of the goals. A big penalty shout will be denied.

There's my vague predictions for the night, I'm off out. Enjoy the clusterf*ck lads.

Blatter

Kirby wrote: »

Valdes? You only think that because you are a Barca fan. Objectively, he was made look good by Barca. He's a decent keeper but not at the level of others on your list.

Great distribution and one of the best at one on ones but other than that, he's as dodgy as fúck. Makes far too many basic errors and there are plenty of examples.

Smithwicks Man

David De Gea, Joe Hart and Victor Valdes are all over rated

Mars Bar

niallo27 wrote: »

De gea or Dave as he is being called now really is a bit overrated at this stage. Any slight criticism of the bloke is attacked straight away. If he has a weakness it's his soft wrists and his ability under a cross. I'm sure I'll be attacked for that anyway. I'd have Cech over him myself but I think he will improve.

Soft wrists? I think that's far from one of his weaknesses!

Red Crow

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

David De Gea, Joe Hart and Victor Valdes are all over rated

MagicIRL

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

David De Gea, Joe Hart and Victor Valdes are all over rated

I can see how Hart is, and Valdes is just muck, but DDG over-rated? the chap isn't rated to begin with. Constant abuse is all he gets. Quality keeper.

Smithwicks Man

MagicIRL wrote: »

I can see how Hart is, and Valdes is just muck, but DDG over-rated? the chap isn't rated to begin with. Constant abuse is all he gets. Quality keeper.

Hart is a running joke. Never rated Valdes. De Gea has the qualities to become world class but you hear too many people saying he is now which isn't true. Maybe not on boards, but in general he is held in a higher regard than he should be.

IvySlayer

Soft wrists...I know a good workout :P

Blatter

Would expect the teams to be close to these...

Cech, Cole, Cahill, Terry, Ivanovic, Lampard, Ramires, De Bruyne, Hazard, Oscar, Lukaku

de Gea, Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Jones, Carrick, Cleverley, Welbeck, Rooney, Valencia, van Persie


Anderson starting instead of Cleverley wouldn't surprise me.

zarquon

Gerry Armstrong just stated on SSN that he believes United are interested in Di Maria along with Arsenal

Rayne Wooney

Soft wrists and ability under crosses?

Somebody's reading tabloids from 2012. It happened in 4 or 5 matches the season before last and it was blown way out of proportion to the extent that you'd swear it was the lad's kryptonite. He's improved immensely since then and I seriously wonder if people are saying this based on watching him last season or from a few matches they saw back in 2012.

He's not world class yet but there's nothing stopping him from pushing on from his brilliant season last and getting to that level.

Andersonisgod

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Soft wrists and ability under crosses?

Somebody's reading tabloids from 2012. It happened in 4 or 5 matches the season before last and it was blown way out of proportion to the extent that you'd swear it was the lad's kryptonite. He's improved immensely since then and I seriously wonder if people are saying this based on watching him last season or from a few matches they saw back in 2012.

He's not world class yet but there's nothing stopping him from pushing on from his brilliant season last and getting to that level.

It's hardly just people reading tabloids and saying so is a bit condescending. I see more than enough of Man Utd to make a reasonable assessment of my own on De Gea and there's no doubt that he isn't great under a cross and that he doesn't have the commanding presence of other top goalkeepers.