Moderation on the '2013 Bord Gais U21Hurling Championship' thread

sasol

As advised by Moderator, Clareman, I am opening a thread here in relation to the moderation of the '2013 Bord Gais U21 Hurling Championship' thread.

User Thinkstoomuch was issued with a warning on page 23 of this thread, and that users account was subsequently closed. I do not know if the closure was voluntarily or involuntarily

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056946401&page=23


In my opinion the warning was totally unnecessary and unwarranted, and it was in my opinion an utterly bizzare decision by moderator Clareman.

The warning was issued by Clareman to Thinkstoomuch on the basis of "You've had a few jibes at Clare that I've noticed, they are borderline trolling, take this as your only warning."


The comment that lead user Thinkstoomuch to be warned was
"I hope antrim arent crucifed.Clare are now in five all irelands finals in four years in hurling.Just shows even with a small population ,with the work put in,what can be achieved.
You reap what you sow."

In my opinion, this is nothing other than complimentary to Clare hurling and is praising what can be achieved by the correct structures and underage coaching that Clare have put a lot of time and energy into over the past number of years. How this can be classified as a jibe to Clare is beyond me.


Another complimenatry Clare comment from the same thread by user Thinkstoomuch
"Clare are evolving all the time,and not resting on their laurels.With all their underage success,a few years ago,seanie mcmahon and Jamsie o connor,reviewed and revamped their development squads strategy.Just cause it worked,didnt mean,they didnt want to improve and stay ahead of the rest.

We in cork are still trying to get our deveolopment squad working.Clare are fine tuning theirs all the time.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for them."

And from user Thinkstoomuch in the "Clare v Cork All Ireland Senior Hurling Final" thread

"But this clare team are improving,all the time,and much younger than limerck.
Bar last year,clare have beaten limerick in most big games.
Theirs further improvement in ye,im nt sure limerick will.I feel,they will go backwards."

And
"Clare improved,since limerick beat them last year,and will go to another level."

I genuinely have not see any jibes towards Clare hurling from user Thinstoomuch. It is a real pity when unnecessary and unjustified moderation issue warnings without foundation for no reason. As I have stated above it was a bizarre decision and this opinion was echoed by a number of users (posts have since been deleted).

I want to make the point that I am a Clare man and a huge hurling supporter, so I would be the first to notice and have issue with any jibes at Clare hurling. I have no conection whatsoever to user Thinkstoomuch, but in the interest of fairness, I find it necessary to highlight this issue whilst abiding by the forum rules at the same time.

Dades

I'm inclined to agree with what you've said above. I think a mistake has been made here.

However, there were no actual cards or bans issued, and only a user can close their account. It's disappointing Thinkstoomuch didn't stick around and saw this as a reason to leave when it could have been cleared up and everyone could have moved on.

Beasty

It was an in-thread warning. That's all.

P. Breathnach

Beasty wrote: »

It was an in-thread warning. That's all.

Some people take in-thread warnings seriously - which they should, or in-thread warnings are worthless.

sasol

Beasty wrote: »

It was an in-thread warning. That's all.

Yes, but it was a warning without merit or justification.

When the issue was raised by other users, we were quite quickly told that any further discussion of it would result in bans.

If a mod made a genuine mistake and held their hand up, then I would say fair enough, but to issue a warning without any justifiable reason, which lead to a genuine hurling person closing their account is very disappointing.

There was no need for the warning in what was a very courteous hurling discussion.

Nody

sasol wrote: »

Yes, but it was a warning without merit or justification.

When the issue was raised by other users, we were quite quickly told that any further discussion of it would result in bans.

If a mod made a genuine mistake and held their hand up, then I would say fair enough, but to issue a warning without any justifiable reason, which lead to a genuine hurling person closing their account is very disappointing.

There was no need for the warning in what was a very courteous hurling discussion.

Two issues with that as far as I can see (and this is my oppinion based on boads mod policy); first is questioning of a mod decision which is generally a card offence (if done in the forum; at other locations such as PM, Feedback and Dispute Resolution etc. is obviously ok and intended) and second which leads from the first is the derailment of the thread in general by going off topic (i.e. discussion on for/against the decision rather then the topic at hand).

If you think a Mod makes a wrong call then send them a PM about it rather then derail an existing thread is usually the best call or if they don't see your way bump it to the CMod.

Anyway, those are my 2c.

Beasty

As noted the poster had the option to PM the mod. The mod clearly had other posts in mind when issuing the warning. A PM may well have cleared it up. Alas a number of posters took it upon themselves to comment on mod actions in thread (posts now deleted) thereby derailing thr thread.

The poster decided to close their account and I really do not see what purpose this thread can now serve. If the poster had PM'd the mod and not received a satisfactory response they could have PM'd a CMod or started a Help Desk thread

P. Breathnach

Beasty wrote: »

... The poster decided to close their account and I really do not see what purpose this thread can now serve....

This is Feedback, not Dispute Resolution.

LoLth

Beasty wrote: »

As noted the poster had the option to PM the mod. The mod clearly had other posts in mind when issuing the warning. A PM may well have cleared it up. Alas a number of posters took it upon themselves to comment on mod actions in thread (posts now deleted) thereby derailing thr thread.

The poster decided to close their account and I really do not see what purpose this thread can now serve. If the poster had PM'd the mod and not received a satisfactory response they could have PM'd a CMod or started a Help Desk thread

this.

Mods are human and sometimes confuse users. its happened me before when I was PMing a user to question their reasons for a post.

Thats one of the reasons why we have feedback / helpdesk / Cmods / Co-mods / the ability to PM a mod.

if you feel a mod has made a mistake then please use one of the channels listed to , politely, point it out and give the mod a chance to fix it. Discussing it on thread just drags the thread off topic and gives the muppets with a grudge an opening to further disrupt things (the thread you linked has a previously banned user take the opportunity to throw a quick insult at the mod that banned him for example).

As for the closed account , only a user can close their account. if we do it you'll see "banned" instead of "closed account". Its an option of last resort provided to comply with the data protection commission guidelines. Some people seem to prefer to jump straight to nuclear and bypass discussion altogether. Its a shame if this incident lead to the account closure as it really was not something that could not have been cleared up. Honestly though, I would suspect that there were other reasons for the closure and this was just a part of it.

mickmackey1

Have you seen the post along the lines of 'Clare hurlers are scum'? This poster was not banned or even warned!!

I would say this mod, Clareman, is either unstable or unfit for purpose; and his cohort Rebel Girl isn't much better.

LoLth

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Have you seen the post along the lines of 'Clare hurlers are scum'? This poster was not banned or even warned!!

I would say this mod, Clareman, is either unstable or unfit for purpose; and his cohort Rebel Girl isn't much better.

you made your opinion quite clear on the thread after you used your re-reg account to circumvent a ban. I would suggest you not draw further attention to yourself. imho, your opinion of the mods of that forum is biased and as a result is untrustworthy. If you wish to dispute your ban, then I suggest you use the channel provided (the DRP) to do so and not use feedback to take digs at the mods in an attempt to repay some perceived slight.

sasol

If there were other reasons for the warning, then those reasons should have been clearly stated.

The only reason provided by the moderator was a 'jibe' at Clare - a jibe that did not happen. The user (a Cork hurling fan) was actually praising Clare.

I did PM the mod this morning to notify him of my opening of this thread and to communicate that I thought the warning was baffling, for the reasons stated above.

To be perfectly honest, I was trying to do the right thing here, but from the reponses here which are more concerned with people side-tracking the thread and questioning mod decisions, it is very easy to see why people get cynical when it comes to question mod decisions.

LoLth

sasol wrote: »

If there were other reasons for the warning, then those reasons should have been clearly stated.

The only reason provided by the moderator was a 'jibe' at Clare - a jibe that did not happen. The user (a Cork hurling fan) was actually praising Clare.

I did PM the mod this morning to notify him of my opening of this thread and to communicate that I thought the warning was baffling, for the reasons stated above.

To be perfectly honest, I was trying to do the right thing here, but from the reponses here which are more concerned with people side-tracking the thread and questioning mod decisions, it is very easy to see why people get cynical when it comes to question mod decisions.

by all means question a mod decision, just do it in one of the many avenues provided and not "on thread".

As for the on thread warning, I'll clarify what happened with Clareman.

the account closure is regrettable but it can hardly be blamed completely on a single on thread warning that could, as you pointed out, have been in error.

Lovely Bloke

LoLth wrote: »

the account closure is regrettable but it can hardly be blamed completely on a single on thread warning that could, as you pointed out, have been in error.

When a person is closing an account there is a question along the lines of "Will you tell us the reason for closing the account".

I'm not for a minute asking you to disclose that here, but I wonder do you, as an Admin, have access to that.

It might clear up a few things.

******************

There is also a fairly unsettling undertone to your responses here that seem to be implying that in cases of closed accounts like this there is a bit of "it's not us, it's you".

sometimes it IS Boards and it's machinations that lead to someone making the decision to close an account.

No-one from HQ, Admins etc has ever addressed that.

hullaballoo

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

There is also a fairly unsettling undertone to your responses here that seem to be implying that in cases of closed accounts like this there is a bit of "it's not us, it's you".

sometimes it IS Boards and it's machinations that lead to someone making the decision to close an account.

No-one from HQ, Admins etc has ever addressed that.

What you've done there is conflate perceptive biases with reality. You're effectively saying that boards.ie wants users to close their accounts and works towards achieving that aim, when clearly that's ridiculous.

Occasionally, people get fed up with boards and move away from it but that isn't a problem with boards. It's simply down to people's own preferences. Boards is what it is so in reality, it's not us; it's you.

seamus

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

When a person is closing an account there is a question along the lines of "Will you tell us the reason for closing the account".

I'm not for a minute asking you to disclose that here, but I wonder do you, as an Admin, have access to that.

It might clear up a few things.

The admins don't have access to that information, it's available to the staff only as sensitive info, for obvious reasons.

There is also a fairly unsettling undertone to your responses here that seem to be implying that in cases of closed accounts like this there is a bit of "it's not us, it's you".

sometimes it IS Boards and it's machinations that lead to someone making the decision to close an account.

No-one from HQ, Admins etc has ever addressed that.

How do you address it though? The person has basically said, "I'm leaving, delete my information and never contact me again", so there's basically no scope for addressing whatever the specific problem was.

Now I'm sure every so often they print out fancy tables and graphs and sit in a room discussing it and whether action needs to be taken to deal with the number of accounts closing for reason X, but specific issues can't be addressed unless someone sticks around to talk about it.

sasol

LoLth wrote: »

by all means question a mod decision, just do it in one of the many avenues provided and not "on thread".

As for the on thread warning, I'll clarify what happened with Clareman.

the account closure is regrettable but it can hardly be blamed completely on a single on thread warning that could, as you pointed out, have been in error.

Thank you. Let me know how that goes.

Dades

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

sometimes it IS Boards and it's machinations that lead to someone making the decision to close an account.

No-one from HQ, Admins etc has ever addressed that.

Of course when people close their account it frequently relates to Boards and it's machinations.

But what is there to address? Issues people have with Boards can only be addressed while they are members - and there are several forums here specifically for people to work out their issues with Boards and it's team. If someone closes their account without engaging then we're helpless, and if someone engages but doesn't get a satisfactory response then all anyone can say is at least we tried.

The case in the OP is a pity, imo, as the OP has a good case that the in-thread warning was unwarranted.

mickmackey1

Dades wrote: »

there are several forums here specifically for people to work out their issues with Boards and it's team.

Yes but they are well away from public scrutiny; I have been openly accused of 'bias' and 'untrustworthiness' above, for all to see, by someone who doesn't even have the courtesy to check the facts but merely exposes his own prejudices by falsely maligning me.

I have never caused any intentional trouble in the GAA forum, my last post may have gone somewhat off topic in response to a previous post, and for which I apologised in the post itself, only to be hit with a savage and utterly disproportional 1 month ban.

This was bad enough only to then find out that a very well-informed and knowledgeable poster was then excluded for something he never said by a mod whose actions will be a source of embarrassment to the admins when they investigate them.

Yes, I made a re-reg, which I regret but was made in a spirit of bafflement, amazement and disgust at the irrational actions of Clareman and his lapdog Rebel girl.

I also notice that a veteran poster has had his unjustified ban rescinded; the original charge being further evidence of a mod seemingly losing the plot.

Please restore my posting rights in the GAA forum. Thank you.

Dades

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Yes but they are well away from public scrutiny; I have been openly accused of 'bias' and 'untrustworthiness' above, for all to see, by someone who doesn't even have the courtesy to check the facts but merely exposes his own prejudices by falsely maligning me.

Dispute Resolution, Helpdesk and Feedback are all open for anyone to read. And if you use someone else's thread to have an OTT cut at some mods you can't expect a soft response.

mickmackey1 wrote: »

I have never caused any intentional trouble in the GAA forum, my last post may have gone somewhat off topic in response to a previous post, and for which I apologised in the post itself, only to be hit with a savage and utterly disproportional 1 month ban.

...

Please restore my posting rights in the GAA forum. Thank you.

Again, the Dispute Resolution forum is the place to go if you wish to dispute a ban.

Beasty

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Have you seen the post along the lines of 'Clare hurlers are scum'? This poster was not banned or even warned!!

I just want to come back on this - did you report the post? I've gone through a host of reported posts from the GAA Forum searching for the term "scum" and can find no reference

Mods cannot read every post - if it's not reported and they don't read it themselves they have nothing to go on

mickmackey1

[QUOTE=Dades;86212219

Again, the Dispute Resolution forum is the place to go if you wish to dispute a ban.[/QUOTE]

OK, but I'm not sure of the procedure, will I end up dealing with Clareman again? If so, I'm toast

Beasty wrote: »

I just want to come back on this - did you report the post? I've gone through a host of reported posts from the GAA Forum searching for the term "scum" and can find no reference

Somebody else referred to it yesterday on the U-21 hurling thread before that debate was scrubbed on the orders of Rebel girl; the original post may also have been deleted - I'm not making it up.

Edit: Hang on, here it is:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86064407&postcount=376

Spear

mickmackey1 wrote: »

OK, but I'm not sure of the procedure, will I end up dealing with Clareman again? If so, I'm toast

There's a mandatory large flowchart in DRP explaining the process:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1397

You'll still need to discuss it with Clareman by PM first however. No-one, mods included, can interfere with a DRP unless explicitly invited to comment by the cmod involved, and I do and have enforced that rule, even against other mods.

Clareman

I suppose I better give my side of things.

Trolling is a blight on most internet forums and can grow quickly, I saw some posts as trolling and wanted to kick it out as early as possible, as we are in a very busy time of the season for the GAA we have a Zero Tolerance in place breaching of the forum charter, with that in mind I banned a user for what in my opinion was trolling

"Clare on the other hand have no real history to speak of so there's no comparison there either in terms of the weight of expectation."

That to me is blatant trolling looking for a rise from Clare posters, so in line with the Zero Tolerance I banned the user, I did make an error however, I mistakenly thought that an ban was to be the end of the season, that's not in place, with that in mind I will lift the ban after 1 week as I think that would be more in line.

I thought that Thinksomuch by agreeing with the above along with a few more jibes such as

clare took out limericks danger men

Clare have no success

he build that team from scratch

was low level trolling, I didn't think it was blatant or too harsh, hence the on thread warning rather than an action directly against the poster. Re-reading the users posts I can see that it's more than likely the users posting style rather than trolling.

mickmackey1

Clareman wrote: »

I will lift the ban after 1 week

OK, dispute resolved.

Hopefully thinkstoomuch will come back.

mickmackey1

Clareman wrote: »

I will lift the ban after 1 week

I'm waiting...

Clareman

mickmackey1 wrote: »

I'm waiting...

Ban lifted as agreed