Tenant poor on payment.

DrPhilG

I've had a house rented out for about a year, and at least 5 times so far I've had to chase him for payment. He is supposed to pay into my account via the post office every Friday but there is always some excuse or something that crops up.

He is on benefits and rent allowance etc, as well as single parent benefits.

Is there any way that the rent can be paid directly from the welfare payment? Or do the post office offer any kind of direct payment like a standing order? Basically I want the payment to be automatic rather than him having to go and do it manually.

The rent does come, but sometimes nearly a week late and it's a pain.

He used to get his benefits paid into his bank account and had a standing order but since changing to collecting his benefits directly at the post office it's been nothing but hassle.

Moonbeam

Do rent allowance pay their portion directly to you and he pays the balance or does he pay you the full amount?
I always deal with rent monthly.
I think you just need to talk to him.

djimi

Next time it happens issue him with a 14 day written notice of arrears. It doesnt mean a whole lot in reality because if he pays up within the 14 days then you cant take it any further, but it might make him cop on a bit if he realises that there is a consequence to his late payment, especially if you tell him in no uncertain terms that if he ever exceeds the 14 days then he will be issued with a 28 day notice of termination and he will be evicted.

DrPhilG

It was originally monthly, but I agreed to weekly as it suited his benefits schedule.

I'll look into the 14 day notice. I've talked to him a few times but he just seems too laid back about it.

DrPhilG

Question...

If I issue the 14 day notice now, and the tenant pays up in time, is there nothing I can do?

I mean if rent is constantly late, can I not still evict him based on that?

Otherwise he essentially has a get out of jail free card to be 13 days late every time!

Ray Palmer

DrPhilG wrote: »

Question...

If I issue the 14 day notice now, and the tenant pays up in time, is there nothing I can do?

I mean if rent is constantly late, can I not still evict him based on that?

Otherwise he essentially has a get out of jail free card to be 13 days late every time!

Yes that is the system you can't do anything about it. The laws favour the tenant no matter what

DrPhilG

:eek:

What a pain in the arse! So my only chance of getting rid of the tenant is to hope that he misses the 14 day deadline?

That said, I would prefer to have him just pay the damn rent and stay. But if this continues it will be more hassle than it's worth. It's a set 2 year lease. Can I decide not to renew it or are my hands tied there too?

What happens if I ever decide to sell the house? Surely then I can evict them?

Ray Palmer

DrPhilG wrote: »

:eek:

What a pain in the arse! So my only chance of getting rid of the tenant is to hope that he misses the 14 day deadline?

That said, I would prefer to have him just pay the damn rent and stay. But if this continues it will be more hassle than it's worth. It's a set 2 year lease. Can I decide not to renew it or are my hands tied there too?

What happens if I ever decide to sell the house? Surely then I can evict them?

It is worse than that. When you try to evict him he may stop paying rent and it could take a year easily enough. You will be very unlikely you will get the rent for that year even if given a order by the PRTB.

On a two year lease you can't evict him by selling the property. You need to wait for the lease to expire or sell it with him as a sitting tenant.

You could ask him to leave but he has no obligation to move. Given it is difficult to find LL that accept RA I doubt he will want to move.

You are better off not issuing leases now as it is more restrictive and they have part 4 tenancy rights anyway.

DrPhilG

Also, (and I suspect that this is a bit optimistic...)

If I do issue a 14 day notice of arrears, is it specific to that particular payment or just a statement of arrears in general?

In other words, given that the rent is being collected weekly, lets say that the rent days for a particular month are the 1st/8th/15th/22nd/29th.

If he is late for the 1st and I issue a 14 day notice, then he needs to have that payment in for the 15th. But say he pays that amount on the 15th, but by that stage is also late on the payment for the 8th?

Would I then have grounds for eviction based on him still being "in arrears" on the 15th, or is he off the hook because he did pay the missed amount from the 1st?

If that scenario still plays out in his favour, then I may have to force him back onto monthly payments. The rental agreement states monthly, I've been allowing the weekly payments as a favour. It was never changed in the terms.

DrPhilG

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is worse than that. When you try to evict him he may stop paying rent and it could take a year easily enough. You will be very unlikely you will get the rent for that year even if given a order by the PRTB.

On a two year lease you can't evict him by selling the property. You need to wait for the lease to expire or sell it with him as a sitting tenant.

To clarify, I have no intention of selling for the forseeable future.

Regarding the end of the lease, would I then be able to evict without any hassle? Or does the end of the lease mean he has to go, unless I offer an extension? Even if I'm not selling.

By the sounds of things, I basically have to roll over and bend to this guy's unreliability. Because if I piss him off he can make my life hell!

ShaShaBear

DrPhilG wrote: »

To clarify, I have no intention of selling for the forseeable future.

Regarding the end of the lease, would I then be able to evict without any hassle? Or does the end of the lease mean he has to go, unless I offer an extension? Even if I'm not selling.

By the sounds of things, I basically have to roll over and bend to this guy's unreliability. Because if I piss him off he can make my life hell!

You could try ringing the local community welfare officer he deals with and telling them he is late on the rent regularly. Or, if you have to sign monthly forms for rent allowance like my old landlord did, just refuse to sign them if he has been late at any point in the previous month. He'll then get suspended.

djimi

DrPhilG wrote: »

Regarding the end of the lease, would I then be able to evict without any hassle? Or does the end of the lease mean he has to go, unless I offer an extension? Even if I'm not selling.

Assuming the lease is longer than 6 months, he will get part 4 tenancy rights once it expires. This means that he is entitled to stay for up to 4 years, and you can only terminate the tenancy for a specific number of reasons (need the property for yourself/a family member, need to sell, do extensive rennovations being the main ones). At the start of the next 4 year cycle you are then entitled to terminate the tenancy without needing a specific reason.

djimi

ShaShaBear wrote: »

You could try ringing the local community welfare officer he deals with and telling them he is late on the rent regularly. Or, if you have to sign monthly forms for rent allowance like my old landlord did, just refuse to sign them if he has been late at any point in the previous month. He'll then get suspended.

If the OP is having trouble getting rent paid as it is then having the tenants RA payment suspended is not going help matters!

ShaShaBear

djimi wrote: »

If the OP is having trouble getting rent paid as it is then having the tenants RA payment suspended is not going help matters!

It would, since the tenant would likely not be able to afford to pay the rent within the 14 days once the notice of arrears has been given, and the OP would then have reason to give notice for eviction.

I have absolutely no time for people who claim taxpayers hard earned money and are not even willing to put it to good use. I had to claim rent supplement before, and my rent was always the first priority, even over bills and food, no matter how broke I was that week.

Given that the tenant is in receipt of RA, he must only have to lodge about €35 a week for the OP out of his own pocket, and the rest is given to him. I wouldn't muck about OP, if you have to sign stuff for him, stop signing it, and if he manages to come up with the money, I imagine he will learn a solid lesson. If he doesn't, you will have reason to evict him.

djimi

ShaShaBear wrote: »

It would, since the tenant would likely not be able to afford to pay the rent within the 14 days once the notice of arrears has been given, and the OP would then have reason to give notice for eviction.

I have absolutely no time for people who claim taxpayers hard earned money and are not even willing to put it to good use. I had to claim rent supplement before, and my rent was always the first priority, even over bills and food, no matter how broke I was that week.

Given that the tenant is in receipt of RA, he must only have to lodge about €35 a week for the OP out of his own pocket, and the rest is given to him. I wouldn't muck about OP, if you have to sign stuff for him, stop signing it, and if he manages to come up with the money, I imagine he will learn a solid lesson. If he doesn't, you will have reason to evict him.

And if the OP tries to evict and the tenant digs their heals in the OP gets no rent for maybe a year or more while the case is being sorted out. The OP needs to play this carefully; its not in their interest to make it harder for the tenant to pay the rent as its nowhere near as straightforward as saying if they dont pay in the 14 days they are out on their ear.

Koptain Liverpool

DrPhilG wrote: »

By the sounds of things, I basically have to roll over and bend to this guy's unreliability. Because if I piss him off he can make my life hell!

By the sounds of things also you're operating as a landlord without a bloody clue as to the rights and obligations of tenants and landlords.

Go and read the relevant guides and legislation before coming on here and wasting people's time with questions for which the answers are readily available

Ray Palmer

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

By the sounds of things also you're operating as a landlord without a bloody clue as to the rights and obligations of tenants and landlords.

Go and read the relevant guides and legislation before coming on here and wasting people's time with questions for which the answers are readily available

As was pointed out to me what is wrong with asking for information?

It is hard for people to understand a system that is so obviously bias.

DrPhilG

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

By the sounds of things also you're operating as a landlord without a bloody clue as to the rights and obligations of tenants and landlords.

Go and read the relevant guides and legislation before coming on here and wasting people's time with questions for which the answers are readily available

Feel free to bugger off if you have nothing constructive to add. This forum and many others would be dead and buried if everyone just went and searched themselves for the relevant info.

The reason for coming here is to get people's real experience of similar situations and understand the realities and options. Thankfully most people are more helpful than you.

DrPhilG

Back in topic, I haven't signed anything for the tenant. He told me he was getting rent allowance but has never asked me to sign anything.

I'm starting to wonder how much of what I've been told is true and what is waffle...

A call to the local welfare office may be next on my to do list.

ShaShaBear

DrPhilG wrote: »

Back in topic, I haven't signed anything for the tenant. He told me he was getting rent allowance but has never asked me to sign anything.

I'm starting to wonder how much of what I've been told is true and what is waffle...

A call to the local welfare office may be next on my to do list.

He cant get rent allowance unless you sign a form originally. You might not have to sign them monthly, but you do have to sign one at the start, giving tax and PPS numbers. If you have not done this, then he is not getting rent supplement

DrPhilG

ShaShaBear wrote: »

He cant get rent allowance unless you sign a form originally. You might not have to sign them monthly, but you do have to sign one at the start, giving tax and PPS numbers. If you have not done this, then he is not getting rent supplement

Pretty sure that never happened, so definitely some porkies being told.

ShaShaBear

DrPhilG wrote: »

Pretty sure that never happened, so definitely some porkies being told.

Think its a SWA1 form - there is a section for the landlord. If you go in and ask to see one (not a social welfare office, a community welfare office) I'm sure you will recognise the back. I cant imagine why he would say he is getting it if he isnt - unless he is still claiming for a previous residence which got him more money and has moved to your cheaper residence and continued to collect the higher rate.

DrPhilG

ShaShaBear wrote: »

unless he is still claiming for a previous residence which got him more money and has moved to your cheaper residence and continued to collect the higher rate.

Lol, bingo.

His previous address was at a much higher rate, bigger house etc.

One of the reasons given for a late payment recently, was that his benefits had been frozen as the welfare department sent out a letter, but it went to the old address.

From what you've just told me, it sounds like he has moved to my place for cheaper rent, but has still been claiming the higher rate of allowance on the old place.

Ray Palmer

DrPhilG wrote: »

Lol, bingo.

His previous address was at a much higher rate, bigger house etc.

One of the reasons given for a late payment recently, was that his benefits had been frozen as the welfare department sent out a letter, but it went to the old address.

From what you've just told me, it sounds like he has moved to my place for cheaper rent, but has still been claiming the higher rate of allowance on the old place.

Big problem with this and in one local office when they just sent out letters to verify addresses they managed to cut 25% off the local live register.

DrPhilG

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Big problem with this and in one local office when they just sent out letters to verify addresses they managed to cut 25% off the local live register.

Should surely make life easier for me if I need to evict too.

Ray Palmer

DrPhilG wrote: »

Should surely make life easier for me if I need to evict too.

Sorry to inform you it may be worse. If they find out he owe them money and cut his RA he may just stop paying rent. Then you have to go through the full eviction process which can take over a year without any rent and no chance of payment.

neris

DrPhilG wrote: »

By the sounds of things, I basically have to roll over and bend to this guy's unreliability. Because if I piss him off he can make my life hell!

Basically yes. Dont forget your "the big bad money grabbing landlord" and hes only a poor innocent defenseless individual. Tennants have all the rights no matter much it affects you, your bank account or your mortgage. Tennants can really screw up your relationship with the bank if you rely on the rent to meet repayments but hey who cares cause your a landlord rolling in cash causing these poor unfortnatues to live in filth & squalor (might be a slight exageration but you get the point)

DrPhilG

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Sorry to inform you it may be worse. If they find out he owe them money and cut his RA he may just stop paying rent. Then you have to go through the full eviction process which can take over a year without any rent and no chance of payment.

Lol.

I give up.

Ray Palmer

DrPhilG wrote: »

Lol.

I give up.

The laws and the process is truly not fit for purpose. The government would be much happier with big business running all rental so they don't have to ever sort out the laws.

There are serial renters who do this intentionally and then insist on a payment to move out.

lomb

Never do a lease for more than a year. I would actually suggest 6 months now looking at it. Fixed term lease here http://www.topfloor.ie/freebies/lease

Yes , dont rock the boat, let the lease come to a natural end and then tell him a family member or you is moving in(just to ease his mind). I personally if I wanted to evict a tenant would issue a 14 day notice, then the 28 day notice then I would go down and remove his stuff from the house or move in myself with him saying youve no where else to go/start removing furniture/ cutting utilities physically if necessary etc . I wouldnt bother with going furthur through the PRTB which is a waste of time. Youve fullfilled every reasonable legal obligation at the 28 day point. (Dont rent to any intimidating people)

If they want to sue you let them, I doubt they would get far with the above.

nightster1

DrPhilG wrote: »

I've had a house rented out for about a year, and at least 5 times so far I've had to chase him for payment. He is supposed to pay into my account via the post office every Friday but there is always some excuse or something that crops up.

He is on benefits and rent allowance etc, as well as single parent benefits.

Is there any way that the rent can be paid directly from the welfare payment? Or do the post office offer any kind of direct payment like a standing order? Basically I want the payment to be automatic rather than him having to go and do it manually.

The rent does come, but sometimes nearly a week late and it's a pain.

He used to get his benefits paid into his bank account and had a standing order but since changing to collecting his benefits directly at the post office it's been nothing but hassle.

OP, Get tenant to write to welfare officer to request payment to your bank account.