Harassment by residents committee

Big Bag of Chips

Have you spoken to him at all?

Who agreed that everyone would pay this fee? Was everyone in the estate consulted and agreed to it, or was there a discussion where other options were put forward? Was it just decided on by a select few, and others not given an option? Do you go to the meetings?

Have you told him you are not going to pay, and the reason for not paying?

To be honest, it sounds like a very messy, unworkable agreement anyway, and I'd guess you're not the only one who hasn't paid. Are you the only one who has been named and shamed?

I think before you go to the guards or a solicitor your first port of call should be the either the residents association committee, or him directly. Try to sort it out first before being "that" couple!

It's always difficult in situations like this, and committees like this seem to always attract one power hungry, "sergeant major" type... I don't envy your position.

jd

littleme2013 wrote: »

the only company willing to take this job on would only do so on the basis that they would cut all front lawns (they did not want to keep track of who was to have their lawn cut and who was not to have it cut).

First time I've heard of a resident's committee organising the cutting of front lawns. Common areas yeah, but front lawns

anncoates

Are you confusing a residents committee with a management comosny , OP?

And are you talking about people's lawns only, or common green areas?

foggy_lad

jd wrote: »

First time I've heard of a resident's committee organising the cutting of front lawns. Common areas yeah, but front lawns

The residents association have been persuaded to choose the dearest company for grass cutting and they would only do the work if all residents front gardens were included (most likely to bump up the costs). I would go to a meeting and ask this person directly in front of all there what connection he has with the company that he chose to cut the grass.

Markcheese

padma wrote: »

They named and shamed you. Next meeting arrive on a horse. Walk in. Stand up. Tell them about the intimidation and harrassment. Warn them if it keeps up you'll be keeping the horse outside in your garden. Let them then worry about the costs of their houses plummeting.

Possible but a bit drastic .... And what are you going to do with the horse after it's eaten yr little bit of grass

jimmycrackcorm

kieran. wrote: »

€350 per year is mad money for a 60 house estate unless there is a formal/ornamental garden. Our Estate is 46 houses and cost approx 2500-3000 per year for grass cutting, maintaining the planted areas and painting fences etc...... Naming you for non payment at meetings, I cant see anything wrong there as he is just reporting the facts

He's not simply stating facts otherwise he could also state facts such as that the sky is blue and water is wet. What he is doing is harassing and attempting to bully the op into a scheme when the op has already indicated he will not take part.

I'd attend the meeting to make my point and also say that any following harassment such as the text will result in a visit to the solicitor.

Big Bag of Chips

Btw... Any rental property that I lived in we were responsible for maintaining the lawns.

I never heard of hiring a contractor in to cut every lawn in an estate..... What ever happened to the young entrepreneurs going around offering to cut the grass for a fiver?

Markcheese

foggy_lad wrote: »

The residents association have been persuaded to choose the dearest company for grass cutting and they would only do the work if all residents front gardens were included (most likely to bump up the costs). I would go to a meeting and ask this person directly in front of all there what connection he has with the company that he chose to cut the grass.

If a lot of the owners on the estate aren't full time residents then it would suit them to have a company to keep front lawns cut , but wouldn't mean that it suits you or other resident owners...

awec

This thing where the grass company refused to do the work unless all lawns were included is confusing me.

Is the grass cutting market so lucrative at the moment that a grass cutter will turn down business if it's not inclusive of every lawn in an estate?

I have a hard time believing that to be true. I also don't believe for a second that keeping a list of which houses are to be cut in the scheme and which aren't is difficult.

bonzer1again

If it's not a question of the amount and more an issue of the harrasment...why dont you pay some of the neighbours kids to cut your lawn....preferably a kid belonging to someone on the committee.

Slutmonkey57b

Op, this man cannot name and shame you for non payment because you are under no obligation to pay anything.

Like others have said, collect evidence, video him, attend the next meeting and state if the harassment does not stop you will go to the police. Solicitors are expensive, the police are free. This man is intimidating and harassing you. Don't put up with it and don't appease him.

the_syco

Goto the next meeting, and let it be known that should the harassment continue, you'll have no other option but to file harassment charges against the committee that he is representing. Divide and conquer.

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Sounds sketchy enough. You'd almost think he had a financial interest in the company and was trying to send a bit of business their way.

Check out the company in cro.ie and see if he's listed in the company. Sounds like a sure way to gain money. If he is listed, see if you can report his business. Would I be wrong calling this name & shaming to get people to pay this "voluntary" funding as extortion?

Del2005

kieran. wrote: »

€350 per year is mad money for a 60 house estate unless there is a formal/ornamental garden. Our Estate is 46 houses and cost approx 2500-3000 per year for grass cutting, maintaining the planted areas and painting fences etc...... Naming you for non payment at meetings, I cant see anything wrong there as he is just reporting the facts

If it was a management company or their management agent naming and shaming I'd have no issues, but the law would. This is a residents committee which has decided to do something which the OP doesn't want to do, as they are capable of doing it themselves. The residents committee has no power to take money off anyone never mind hassle then.

OP if he won't leave you alone attend the next meeting and as already said explain your reasons. Also ask to see the books of the residents committee and ask about the grass cutters insurance etc. make it as much a hassle for them as they are for you. If he still hassles you straight to the cop shop and report him, keep a record of contacts from now on.

D3PO

kieran. wrote: »

If this is a residents association/committee and not a legal formed management company the have no rights to force you to pay anything. The company cutting the grass has no right to enter your propertyand is basically trespassing when they do so.

However I'm guessing the estate still needs to be maintained and the residents association is only doing what they think is right for the estate. The best solution in my opinion is not to send legal letters but instead attend the next meeting and make the point that it is unacceptable for the committee to be forcing people to accept the current situation and that an alternative must be sought.

I have been a member of my own estates management company and now residents association, if your not there to raise and argue your case at the meetings then you cant give out about the decisions been made at them. After all it is YOUR resident assocation.

Why should the OP go to the meeting ? They don't have to have any interest in a residents association or care what the decisions they make are. They also do not have to pay a cent to them or any other organization on a power trip.

Nobody has the right to intimidate or try and force somebody to pay money they don't legally have to and they should not have to tell the association more than once they are not willing to pay.

OP go to the gardai lodge a complaint, drop a letter in the door of this idiots house and advise you have made a formal complaint to the gardai about harassment and that if he comes to your door regarding money again or mentions your name for non payment at any meeting that you will be getting a solicitor to take a case against him for slander / libel (depending on how your good name is tarnished)

don't let this little boll0x try and bully you.

Pawwed Rig

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I never heard of hiring a contractor in to cut every lawn in an estate..... What ever happened to the young entrepreneurs going around offering to cut the grass for a fiver?

The only time I heard of contractors being hired is for common areas. I have never heard of them going into individual houses.

You don't see people going house to house mowing lawns anymore do you? Or window cleaners. They used to be very common, you would think they would have made a return due to all the unemployment about

wexie

Just tell them you have no intention of paying the 350 to get someone to cut your grass for you, but that you're happy to cut 1/60th of the common green spaces.

Which will obviously be objected to as it would be too hard to administrate for the poor landscaper. In which case you say : fine I'll just cut my own then

Lantus

This doesn't make sense. Lawns by definition are typically 'private' property. I have a front lawn and no one can cut it and then extort me for money in much the same way you cannot just wash a car and then hold out your hand.

The OP has been specific that lawns are been cut. How???

Are there any large common areas being dealt with? Please clarify.

bazza1

Twice a year our residents group have an estate clean up. Everyone gets out and cuts grass in common areas, clears drains, tidies trees checks for graffiti etc. This costs nothing and grows community spirit. We have had community BBQs and street parties after the clean ups. We get the kids invoved also. Could you not suggest this at the next meeting?

ABajaninCork

bazza1 wrote: »

Twice a year our residents group have an estate clean up. Everyone gets out and cuts grass in common areas, clears drains, tidies trees checks for graffiti etc. This costs nothing and grows community spirit. We have had community BBQs and street parties after the clean ups. We get the kids invoved also. Could you not suggest this at the next meeting?

There's something similar on our estate, although we don't have street parties/BBQ's! The residents pay for the green to be cut, but clean-ups are taken care of by themselves.

I think it's a great idea, and well worth suggesting.

markpb

bazza1 wrote: »

Twice a year our residents group have an estate clean up. Everyone gets out and cuts grass in common areas

If the grass in your estate is only cut twice a year, you either have no grass or a little piece of rainforest where the grass used to be.

A2LUE42

As a committee member who is involved in getting quotes and collecting money for the grass cutting each year, it is a thankless and time consuming task, but something that needs to be done. I would encourage everyone to be as involved as possible with their residents association. The more people involved the easier it is for everyone.

This case sounds a bit fishy to be honest. My reading between the lines would be that those who are absent from the estate have decided that by combining the front lawn cutting with the communal areas, they are saving themselves quite a tidy sum every year.

There seems to be no justification for going for more expensive quotes, especially when those providing the quotes are dictating that they will only do more that is required for a much inflated price.

Our charges for the year work out at about €40 per house and that covers the grass cutting every two weeks and having the kerbs sprayed for weeds twice during the year also. This seems a much more reasonable amount to ask people to contribute.

If I was you I would ask to see the yearly accounts for the association and also attend the meetings. Put forward a proposal/motion that only the communal areas are cut and that individual households are responsible for their private lawns.

Having individual lawns cut is much more expensive and that is probably what is driving the costs up. A small garden (front and back) can cost €750 - €1000 a year to have cut by a contractor with public liability insurance.

seamus

As this man is a member/director of a residents association, that makes him a Data Controller for the purposes of the data protection act, which means he has obligations in terms of how he stores and uses information.

As far as I can see it, he's in breach on two counts.:

1. If you are not a member of the resident's association, then he is not permitted to hold any information about you (except "This house is not a member of the association") because he has not good or lawful reason for doing so.

2. As a data controller, releasing information about you in a public forum is illegal and a breach of the data protection act. It doesn't matter that he did it at a resident's association meeting, data protection requires that personal data is kept secure and only provided to those individuals who require access to it.

Even management companies have learned that you can't publish a "name & shame" list.

I would make a complaint to the data protection commissioner, along with sending a letter to the association telling them to go fnck themselves or face legal action.

jmayo

littleme2013 wrote: »

I agree there is a lot to be said for a tidy clean estate, but the charge is outragous and when tackled by other people at meetings who had got a lot cheaper quotes they said no that they wanted to stick with this guy who is the dearest out of the whole lot of them...

This smells fishy.
As others have suggested demand to know, on the record, if anyone on the residents committee are connected in any way with the contractor.

Del2005 wrote: »

...
OP if he won't leave you alone attend the next meeting and as already said explain your reasons. Also ask to see the books of the residents committee and ask about the grass cutters insurance etc. make it as much a hassle for them as they are for you. If he still hassles you straight to the cop shop and report him, keep a record of contacts from now on.

Great idea to demand to see the public liability insurance of the contractor, a statement that all the proposed employees that they want to enter your property have passed a safepass course and for the hell of it even demand to see a tax compliance certificate.

seamus wrote: »

As this man is a member/director of a residents association, that makes him a Data Controller for the purposes of the data protection act, which means he has obligations in terms of how he stores and uses information.

This is another great idea.
The thing to do is hit them with so much sh** that they will be left wondering what the hell they have got themselves into.

Of course also tell them they have no legal standing to demand money off you and that if they continue to slander your good name for non payment of said money, that you will take legal action both against the primary person involved and the committee they represent.

You need to attend a meeting and publicly put theses hots across their bows.
I can't see every one of the 65 owners being happy with a 350 annual charge for something they can do themselves.

It would help to find some other people who have been targetted and bring them along for support.

kirving

Seamus is correct. I ran a society in college and we were extremely limited in what we could do with members information, to the point where we couldn't tell members if anyone else in their class was in the society, etc.

He can't just name and shame those who don't fit into his little plan.

Greenmachine

Undercut the maintenance charge and do the whole estate yourself.
Call to everyone to collect except the guy who is harassing and then mention in the next meeting that you are waiting on payment from the harasser.

whippet

there is no point in making this out to be anything bigger than it is.

This band of residents / owners have decided to come together to solve a problem they see. Therefore they feel they have the moral highground as they are taking it upon themselves to be the saviours.

While taking control of things in the community etc is usually a good thing and should be commended sometimes the manner in which these good deeds are done isn't the most effective or best method.

Unless there is an official management company structure in place which you agreed to upon purchase of your property you have no responsibility to this grouping of residents/owners.

To draw a line in the sand I would advise you to send a registered letter to where ever you have been asked to make payment to, this letter should simply state that you are responsible for your own property and as such will not allow third parties to do any grass cutting, landscaping etc on your property.

You must state that you have not agreed to any costs for communal work to be done and as such will not be paying it.

Finally; a simple statement to the effect that if anyone approaches you under the auspicious of this grouping looking for money you will report this to the local garda station as harassment. Also, should you name be published, mentioned or publicly noted as a 'non-payer' you will be referring the matter to a solicitor.

This will keep them at bay as no do-gooder will want to dodge those mines.

If you don't have an address for the main guy appearing at the door, just have a copy of the letter beside the door, when he calls around say nothing and just hand him the envelope.

A2LUE42

When we were setting up our association, we spoke to others and tried to learn from what they had done. The subject of non payment was something that we asked a lot of questions about and the end result was.

Not to name and shame, it is opening you up to legal issues.
Not to try and do it in reverse by publishing a thank you with all those who had paid, as if you miss someone or it is incorrect you are facing same issues as naming those who hadn't paid.
Assume that some people will pay and some wont, no matter what you do. Some can't. Some wont. Who are you to decide which category anyone falls into.
If someone contributes or not, they are still your neighbours and you all have to live together.
Don't take it personally, all you can do is try your best. If someone else thinks they can organise it better, let them contribute and try. The more involvement in the residents association, the better. It is supposed to be an inclusive organisation for the betterment of the whole area and for everyone.
For the grass cutting and maintenance of the public areas, get a lot of quotes and go with the best deal. Make sure the company is correctly registered and has the required public liability insurance.
You are collecting and spending your own and other peoples money, so spend it carefully and wisely.
Document everything.
Be as transparent as possible.


The number of times people say to just cut a part of the public area themselves is surprising in this day and age. It would mean doing it on a regular basis and possibly being liable if someone injured themselves and somehow were able to blame it on the work done. It only takes one person to make a claim like this to cause you a lot of stress, time and money.

ted1

Where there are residents associations in place they are genreally estates managed by the council as otherwise a MC would be in place.

Do the council not cut the grass? In every estate I lived in they did.

Larbre34

ted1 wrote: »

Where there are residents associations in place they are genreally estates managed by the council as otherwise a MC would be in place.

Do the council not cut the grass? In every estate I lived in they did.

Not the front lawns of houses they don't. The OPs point is about press-ganging people into keeping their own curtilage tidy.

Larbre34

The protagonist in this is clearly a jumped up little Hitler, Citizens Advice Bureau will advise you formally on your rights under data protection etc. You dont need a solicitors letter to put the frighteners on this lad, a properly termed letter of your own will more than suffice.