Harvest Food Festival

ToxicPaddy

The money being spent on completely pointless works on the quays should be used to clean up other areas of the city and maybe even create an area designated for events like this instead of closing off streets.

While I can see the sense behind keeping it in one area of the city like the Mall which has a nice wide street and can take a decent footfall plus its proximity to the car park for the bands and beer tent, the layout of it all did strike me as a little odd.

I think if they had reversed the layout as in put all the stalls down in the carpark which means they were a little more spread out and could hold more stalls and possibly a play area for kids. Then put the stage in front of the Bishops Palace where more people could sit n stand on a big wide open street with maybe the beer tent down where the stalls were by the statue.. it would have made more sense I think.

I know they had to control access to the area later to charge that ridiculous €10 to go in and drink after 7.30pm I think it was(another reason I didn't go back in Sat night :rolleyes:), they still could have done that by erecting barriers around that area.

ToxicPaddy

Nypd wrote: »

Was talking to a local trader down there today, I was told that a stall on the mall was €600, doesn't sound too bad to me.
It was busy today and the bands on both the mall and the beer festival stages were very good and local.
Had a good day there with the kids.
It was a lot different from previous years the market would be great if it was pushed up around cathedral square also.
I'm sure lessons have been learned,
The contract to run this event was put out to tender so I don't see what all the giving out is about.

If the stalls were €600 then someone somewhere is telling lies as 3 x small business owners I spoke to were quoted substantially more than that for stalls the size of the ones on the Mall.

The contract may have been put out to tender, but a lot of conditions should have gone with it and one of them was to set the price for stalls so as not to price out small local businesses. Another should have been an minimum allocation of local businesses in each sector.

Stalls at the National Ploughing Championships the same size as the ones on the mall are going for €1k for the 3 days. The guaranteed footfall at that is over 150k people each year.

This festival should be charging no more than €300 for a standard stall and maybe a bit more for those requiring power and selling food in bigger stalls.

A lot of mistakes were made and I'm sure the feedback wont be good after the dust has settled. Lets hope those who were involved in it listen to the feedback and actually learn from it.

longshanks

The trouble now is that no one is going to stand up and admit they fucked it up.
Excuses will be plenty, but none of those who are to blame for the shambles it turned into will be able to give any decent reasons to explain their actions.
And that's pretty sad.

Max Powers

longshanks wrote: »

The trouble now is that no one is going to stand up and admit they fucked it up.
Excuses will be plenty, but none of those who are to blame for the shambles it turned into will be able to give any decent reasons to explain their actions.
And that's pretty sad.

i think using shambles is too strong. I was in there Fri, sat and Sun and i thought it was brilliant. Yes we all agree would prefer to see more local restaurants with stands and beer tent ran local too however I cant fault porterhouse, great set up on everything. I was able to buy Waterford coffee, ice cream and some mexican sauce from the enterprise tent in bolton st. I was drinking metalman on friday night. All well priced too. I made an effort to seek out local producers in general. i would say, we just had a world class food festival (certainly one of best in Ireland) on our doorstep and although there are things for improvement, all in all it was brill. Let the organisers know your concerns.

Deisekickboxing

Mall still shutdown , traffic mess Monday!

Nypd

longshanks wrote: »

The trouble now is that no one is going to stand up and admit they fucked it up.
Excuses will be plenty, but none of those who are to blame for the shambles it turned into will be able to give any decent reasons to explain their actions.
And that's pretty sad.

Shambles !!
Bit of a strong statement, did you go into the event ?

Max Powers

just looking at some of the older posts on previous pages eg. someone was complaining about lack of stuff for kids to do. Im pretty sure there were events on during the week and the park was jammed with kids events on Saturday when i was there, not just the animal farm.

mozattack

Hard to make money at €600 so I'd say it is true.

Festival was more of a market than a festival so a bit disappointing, so much so I didn't bother go in on Saturday and Sunday 'cos I heard there was nothing there that wasn't on Friday whereas in the past there was a difference each day, hence worth popping in.

Saying that I had some nice food but it wasn't great.

Re the locals, who cares, make it brilliant and big and everyone wins. If the outsiders believe the stall price is good value well then so should the locals but they all know that it is hard to make money out of these things... want to sell a lot of cupcakes to get back the costs of being there.

old gregg

I didn't get down for a single part of it due to SAW Fest preparations so can't really hold an opinion. I did meet quite a few folks who had pretty much boycotted it in protest at local producers being priced out of taking part.

Max Powers

old gregg wrote: »

I didn't get down for a single part of it due to SAW Fest preparations so can't really hold an opinion. I did meet quite a few folks who had pretty much boycotted it in protest at local producers being priced out of taking part.

OG, i hope you told them how short-sighted they are and to wise-up because yes some local producers werent there but there were plenty that were there and they need our support. Metalman, Biddy Gonzales, Ginos, Dungarvan brewing, Poniticelli coffee, Country style and many more.

kensutz

I was actually looking forward to heading in to it over the weekend but the whole thing was really poor. Literally walked along the mall looking to buy some stuff as a treat but we weren't enticed by anything. The whole setup was poor compared to last year and one day was enough for me.

ToxicPaddy

Max Powers wrote: »

OG, i hope you told them how short-sighted they are and to wise-up because yes some local producers werent there but there were plenty that were there and they need our support. Metalman, Biddy Gonzales, Ginos, Dungarvan brewing, Poniticelli coffee, Country style and many more.

Well as I posted earlier, a lot of bad feeling was going around because of the pricing structure and people did boycott it because of that. Most believed that even though there were a few local businesses they were effectively supporting non local businesses that would be taking the money out of the town and as a result refused to support it. Not an ideal scenario but an understandable one all the same.

Markcheese

Nypd wrote: »

Shambles !!
Bit of a strong statement, did you go into the event ?

Funnily enough shambles is an old word for a Market ....

What's the point of the festival if not to show case local producers and restaurants...if in running it you price all the local business's out of it and bring in national festival fast food joints then make it the national fast-food festival

iseegirls

Bought tickets for the Festival of Food that took place in the Large Room of the City Hall. We starved ourselves beforehand, thinking we were in for a huge treat. Regarding what the website calls it:

"Harvest Festival welcomes its first Theatre of Food event in 2013. A dedicated food area, Theatre of Food serves as a homage to all things gastromic, with a host of activities including food demos from some of Ireland’s leading chefs, wine tasting, food sampling, demos, cookery tips and more from a who’s who of Ireland’s chefs, food writers and bloggers."

Now from I expected from that was many areas with food and drink tasters. But instead, for 15euro each, we sat down and watched a chef cook, and then got tiny portions of what he cooked at the end. No wine tasting, one food sample, one demo, not much cookery tips.

That and they never even checked out tickets when we walked in, leading us to believe they just let people come in for free, to fill the place up.

Very disappointed after spending that amount of money. We went up to Harlequin for a delicious Focaccia for half the price later as we were starved.

old gregg

Max Powers wrote: »

OG, i hope you told them how short-sighted they are and to wise-up because yes some local producers werent there but there were plenty that were there and they need our support. Metalman, Biddy Gonzales, Ginos, Dungarvan brewing, Poniticelli coffee, Country style and many more.

I'd not have done that unless I'd been down myself first.

7upfree

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Criticism after an event I can accept. Criticism before it even starts however...

And they were proven right.

7upfree

decies wrote: »

Very good point about this pushing things into the Viking Triangle the councill seemed to be upsessed about that area of city and not doing enough , I walked up barronstrand street to Michael Street Friday morning ok weather not the best but I was shocked how empty the heart of the city was of people , I think it's about time they contacted Galway and Kilkenny to see what's the secret of getting life into the city centre ,at the moment it's a miserable failure down there .

It really is. Barronstrand Street is into Georges Street and O'Connell Street was tailor-made for that festival. And all pedestrianised. Without a closure of a major artery. We went down on Saturday night and Sunday afternoon. It was staggering to see the place gutted.

* Miller's Marsh Car park - section dug up.

* Entrance to Medieval Museum - dug up.

* Cathedral Square - dug up.

* Henrietta Street into Colbeck Street - dug up.

* Rear of Bishop's palace - cobble lock gutted and replaced in sections with concrete.

* And as for the Quay. Sigh.

Is ANYONE in charge in City Hall??

Dicky Pride

Quick question...have any of you people complained without a mask of anonymity? What good do you think bitching on boards is going to do? You need to contact people in city council and sign your name to it.

All these people that complained that they were being priced out of the harvest festival...none of them actually stepped forward and gave their names in complaint.

We're very good at complaining on Internet forums but how do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously when you use a username?

Just asking...

7upfree

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Quick question...have any of you people complained without a mask of anonymity? What good do you think bitching on boards is going to do? You need to contact people in city council and sign your name to it.

All these people that complained that they were being priced out of the harvest festival...none of them actually stepped forward and gave their names in complaint.

We're very good at complaining on Internet forums but how do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously when you use a username?

Just asking...

For the record - yes. On several occasions. As have some traders. We don't ALL hide behind usernames.

ToxicPaddy

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Quick question...have any of you people complained without a mask of anonymity? What good do you think bitching on boards is going to do? You need to contact people in city council and sign your name to it.

All these people that complained that they were being priced out of the harvest festival...none of them actually stepped forward and gave their names in complaint.

We're very good at complaining on Internet forums but how do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously when you use a username?

Just asking...

I asked did anyone know who was in charge or on the committee much earlier on and I never got a reply. (See Post 57)

There is a generic info@ address on the website but not a single name mentioned.

I'd gladly make a complaint if someone stood up and said they organised it, but as usual they are all hiding in their offices and hoping it will all go away. :rolleyes:

Sully

I was given some information from a council official in regards to the Harvest Food Festival. It might help to give a bit of the facts about pricing etc. Moaning about streets being dug up to improve the overall area is not relevant to the food festival.

Any of the stalls on the mall were €150 + vat per day for the 3 days. Housed in individual uniform tents. Saw them myself, thought they looked pretty good. The organiser of the festival pointed this out on WLR as one reason for the high cost.

The €500 per day for 3 days was only for restaurants looking to set up outside with seating & marquee facilities. I'd say restaurants have more of a budget for an outside stall and again the marquee & seating facilities costs money.

Some stall holders who were here for the Tall Ships have had bigger sales over the 3 days than at the Tall Ships - this proves that the Harvest Food Festival is a success!

Flash was offered a 50/50 split with the Porterhouse to run the bar - Porterhouse had a 50/50 split with council but he refused! This was already reported as mentioned in the thread.

The reason why the Metal Man & Dungarvan sold out was not because enough wasn't ordered but because the breweries had no more stock - they maximised their production & didn't have enough.

A lot of this is in the public domain but heavily exaggerated. The above costs exclude the advertising and printing directly related to the festival, and being in that business, its not that cheap. There is also the huge, and it really is pretty big, cost of insurance which requires an event management plan including security & safety plans. These are basic costs that increase as a festival gets bigger. Someone needs to cover the costs and that falls down to sponsors, those having stalls, and so on.

No doubt mistakes were made and a bit too ambitious in trying to maxamise the festival and increase its potential. People sent in a few texts to TodayFM this morning commenting on aspects of the festival in a positive way. There is a spin off from having a festival - the people who flock to the town from the city and the rest of the country will shop elsewhere and use local businesses and services. More people in the city means more money for the city and positive for our local economy.

Waterford people are sometimes quick to complain when we have no festivals but not quick enough to support it and will always find fault. Day Tripper being a prime example. We all know it wasn't everyone's cup of tea and mistakes were made on all parts but respect what they did all the same.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Moaning about streets being dug up to improve the overall area is not relevant to the food festival.

It is HIGHLY relevant when people could be badly injured. Or does this not matter? Do you think people stayed on the Mall for the duration?

And it took from the City on the weekend.

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

It is HIGHLY relevant when people could be badly injured. Or does this not matter? Do you think people stayed on the Mall for the duration?

And it took from the City on the weekend.

I assume if you found some sort of serious sight safety issue you reported it this morning to the council? These sites are strictly monitored and checked to ensure they are safe for both public and workers. The Health & Safety aspect of any construction is taken very very seriously.

Now you have repeatedly complained in the other thread about the Quays about the road works and how its such a bad time to do it, we get it. But lets keep this thread to the discussion about the Harvest Festival and not about a spin off unrelated topic about construction even if you can casually link the two. We don't need two threads bashing the road works.

ToxicPaddy

Sully wrote: »

I was given some information from a council official in regards to the Harvest Food Festival. It might help to give a bit of the facts about pricing etc. Moaning about streets being dug up to improve the overall area is not relevant to the food festival.

Any of the stalls on the mall were €150 + vat per day for the 3 days. Housed in individual uniform tents. Saw them myself, thought they looked pretty good. The organiser of the festival pointed this out on WLR as one reason for the high cost.

The €500 per day for 3 days was only for restaurants looking to set up outside with seating & marquee facilities. I'd say restaurants have more of a budget for an outside stall and again the marquee & seating facilities costs money.

Hi Sully,

Do you have a link to any official documentation about pricing??

Thanks.

pharmaton

7upfree wrote: »

It really is. Barronstrand Street is into Georges Street and O'Connell Street was tailor-made for that festival. And all pedestrianised. Without a closure of a major artery. We went down on Saturday night and Sunday afternoon. It was staggering to see the place gutted.

Is ANYONE in charge in City Hall??

This is exactly what I though, I had to head down O Connell street Saturday (grubbs) and from Red Sq onward it was desolate but I couldn't help but think this is where the market should be. (there were one or two stalls on Barrondstrand St but even a regular Saturday there would be more) Outside the grannary was scattered empty seating on a street that should have been filled with stalls. Georges street much the same, and every part of the area doubly suitable for a market and footfall which would have flowed into the central shopping district.
Location is very relevant to why this festival was such a mess, it really does come across as if someone in there has issues with the actual City Center.

I'm all for the development of Waterford in terms of its capacity to host such festivals, but I think winterville has that covered and maybe if the council focused their efforts on hosting one event rather than over saturating the market with every attempt, it would be better in the long run.

btw, I checked out the local authority website trying to find ANY information wrt the hosting of the event and the only link I managed to find is in the June minutes which refers to the granting of the license. I'd like to know who the development officer is in this case.

Dicky Pride

Dicky Pride wrote: »

This Year:
HOT FOOD €1,500.00 VAT - €345.00 TOTAL - €1,845.00
SNACK/ BEVERAGE €1050 €241 TOTAL - €1291
RETAIL UNIT €250.00 €57.50 €307.50

Last Year:
Retail Stall 3mx3m Euro 85
Additional space 15 Euro per metre
i.e 4mx3m Euro 100
Coffee and Snacks. Euro 140
This price includes 1 x 16 amp electrical connection and gas inspection
Hot Food Vendors. Euro 200

Last year was for just one day, this year it's for three full days.

There is a one day option for market traders for the Saturday in the park. Prices for that:
HOT FOOD €300.00 €69.00 €369.00
SNACK/ BEVERAGE €150.00 €34.50 €184.50
RETAIL €75.00 €17.25 €92.25

I'm pretty sure that the organisers would not want to turn anyone away and if a local came to them with a proposal im sure compromises could be made.

Those figures above came from the article I read in the paper by the way. Public knowledge

The above are prices that were taken from this year's rate card.

pharmaton

sooner this amalgamation happens the better.

jennygirl

Sully wrote: »

The €500 per day for 3 days was only for restaurants looking to set up outside with seating & marquee facilities. I'd say restaurants have more of a budget for an outside stall and again the marquee & seating facilities costs money.

Flash was offered a 50/50 split with the Porterhouse to run the bar - Porterhouse had a 50/50 split with council but he refused! This was already reported as mentioned in the thread.

The reason why the Metal Man & Dungarvan sold out was not because enough wasn't ordered but because the breweries had no more stock - they maximised their production & didn't have enough.


No doubt mistakes were made and a bit too ambitious in trying to maxamise the festival and increase its potential. .

Restaurant could not afford €1,500 + Vat +Water + Waste + Gas + Electricity

Flash was strung along by one person in City Council, then he dealt with Harrison Leisure, he ordered beer from microbreweries and order bar equipments from Commercial refrigeration - then was approached by Porterhouse who told him they had the bar - and could he provide staff and licence - no mention of 50/50 split

mistake was to employ Dublin event management company - who took all their Dublin Cronies, typical City Council.

the reason no one is Talking to the media is the will be "blacklisted" for other events. I run a food establishment in the city - i know from personal experience how it works -

as for Metal Man - they had a cold room full of beer for the festival - 15 kegs of Metalman ordered - 350 kegs of Porterhouse own brew! do the maths guys!

Sully

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

Hi Sully,

Do you have a link to any official documentation about pricing??

Thanks.

Nope. It came directly from the council, some of which was already mentioned on WLR and in local print media. I was just supplied the information and thought it was good to share.

jennygirl wrote: »

Restaurant could not afford €1,500 + Vat +Water + Waste + Gas + Electricity

Flash was strung along by one person in City Council, then he dealt with Harrison Leisure, he ordered beer from microbreweries and order bar equipments from Commercial refrigeration - then was approached by Porterhouse who told him they had the bar - and could he provide staff and licence - no mention of 50/50 split

mistake was to employ Dublin event management company - who took all their Dublin Cronies, typical City Council.

the reason no one is Talking to the media is the will be "blacklisted" for other events. I run a food establishment in the city - i know from personal experience how it works -

as for Metal Man - they had a cold room full of beer for the festival - 15 kegs of Metalman ordered - 350 kegs of Porterhouse own brew! do the maths guys!

Perhaps it might be best Flash represent himself and you can tell us at the same time which restaurant you run so we know your feelings as a local business person? We wouldn't want flash misrepresented through a third party either, so it might be best he came on himself (just a thought).

angelfalling

My business is listed below every post I make. I contacted the festival organizers to try to arrange better pricing for myself and other local traders and were turned down, then offered a really dumb compromise (which wasn't a compromise at all) and we turned that down and made it clear it was because we could not afford the price. Our local market posted exactly why we were not taking part, advertised for traders who were pushed out to join us and I forwarded that message on to every radios and newspaper and every Waterford related facebook page and councillors. So, yeah, I know I made it known we were very unhappy.

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Quick question...have any of you people complained without a mask of anonymity? What good do you think bitching on boards is going to do? You need to contact people in city council and sign your name to it.

All these people that complained that they were being priced out of the harvest festival...none of them actually stepped forward and gave their names in complaint.

We're very good at complaining on Internet forums but how do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously when you use a username?

Just asking...

I know some that participated that definitely did NOT make more than they made from tall ships. I know I definitely would not have made the same, it would have been impossible. There was simply no where near the footfall. Then again, Tall Ships was twice the price. Friday in town was meant to be dead, Sunday the weather was poor, so you are talking most people out on the Saturday anyways. That's the same price each day, for again, the same if not less foot fall than the one day of Harvest offered in previous years.
People who participate in these events have their own supplies. We have tents and tables that we have made big investments on and we can bring along ourselves. Offering marquees or winterval style huts are unnecessary and we don't need to be paying companies to provide them when we have already spent the money ourselves to have them for our businesses. More excuses. Waterford likes to make excuses. I don't understand all the support for what was generally considered a bad move on the part of the city. They may have had good intentions (or not), but it didn't work out. Some local businesses that could afford to take the chance took it, most did not, by evidence of the lack of small producers on the day. Obviously businesses like myself and others WANT these things to be successful, we wouldn't complain for no reason. There is such a thing as thinking too big.