Sean O'Rourke Today Show

Callan57

Peter Suderland ... another unelected guru pontificating from his "ivory tower". Am I mishearing him or is he overly focused on getting cheap labour into Europe.

I don't understand why we (as in the European taxpayer) is expected to carry these costs - why aren't the extremly wealthy muslim countries looking after their co-religionists?

touts

Some woman from one of the Refugee charities on saying we should throw our borders open to all the poor displaced migrants from warzones that are suffering in North Africa. Then she claims they are all highly skilled workers we need in our economy. Can't have it both ways.

Now Peter "50 Pensions" Sutherland is on telling us we need to throw open our borders to all comers. It's easy for a man who has enough money never to lower himself to availing of the public health system or the public education system to say the systems of Europe can cope with a few hundred thousand migrants.

touts

After a 20 minute PR slot by Peter Sutherland claiming that mass migration from Syria and Libya would be a good thing and there were no problems at all with countries like Britain and France that had seen high numbers of refugees in recent years we have breaking news......... some lad is driving around a factory in France cutting off heads and flying an ISIS flag. Great timing there.

Callan57

touts wrote: »

After a 20 minute PR slot by Peter Sutherland claiming that mass migration from Syria and Libya would be a good thing and there were no problems at all with countries like Britain and France that had seen high numbers of refugees in recent years we have breaking news......... some lad is driving around a factory in France cutting off heads and flying an ISIS flag. Great timing there.

Unfortunate timing for his agenda :rolleyes:

BarryD

Callan57 wrote: »

Peter Suderland ... another unelected guru pontificating from his "ivory tower". Am I mishearing him or is he overly focused on getting cheap labour into Europe.

I don't understand why we (as in the European taxpayer) is expected to carry these costs - why aren't the extremly wealthy muslim countries looking after their co-religionists?

I've heard Peter Sutherland on about the same issue several times recently and I just can't escape the 'fat cat' image - he's been in a series of well remunerated jobs over his careers - and one presumes, wouldn't have any financial concerns at all in the world.

So it just rings a bit hollow when he's exhorting the ordinary plain people of Ireland or Europe to gladly take in all these refugees, support them with social welfare payments and jobs. Jobs that may well be at the expense of our lower paid citizens - not the sort of high flying jobs that Sutherland is used to.

It's not that I wouldn't have some sympathy for his argument and what might be done, it's just that he's the wrong person to be lecturing us..

Callan57

Brian Hayes very interesting slant on the Greek situation.
At the end of the day every government's first priority should be national self interest & I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of Irish people, while sympathetic to Greece, would nontheless not be in favour of carrying a single EUR of additional tax burden to assist them. Not PC but that is the fact.

Lucinda is making a habit of being on both sides.

Brendan Bendar

BarryD wrote: »

I've heard Peter Sutherland on about the same issue several times recently and I just can't escape the 'fat cat' image - he's been in a series of well remunerated jobs over his careers - and one presumes, wouldn't have any financial concerns at all in the world.

So it just rings a bit hollow when he's exhorting the ordinary plain people of Ireland or Europe to gladly take in all these refugees, support them with social welfare payments and jobs. Jobs that may well be at the expense of our lower paid citizens - not the sort of high flying jobs that Sutherland is used to.

It's not that I wouldn't have some sympathy for his argument and what might be done, it's just that he's the wrong person to be lecturing us..

Excellent post there Barry, sums it up perfectly in my opinion.

I am probably wrong, but I personally can't get away from the fact that Suds is just pursuing a line for which he is getting well payed for, and really has no genuine interest in the issue.

Just that's the impression I get, like I say probably wrong, but Suds is not the boy to be plugging this, in my opinion.

alaimacerc

Callan57 wrote: »

At the end of the day every government's first priority should be national self interest & I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of Irish people, while sympathetic to Greece, would nontheless not be in favour of carrying a single EUR of additional tax burden to assist them. Not PC but that is the fact.

Remains to be seen if there's much of a majority of Irish people in favour of assisting other Irish people, come to that. Huge built-in electoral majority for two conservative parties that vaguely pretend to be different. "Left" parties that can't bring themselves to even describe themselves as such, much less to say they'd raise taxation by anything like the amount needed to match their "down with this sort of thing" rhetoric.

Lucinda is making a habit of being on both sides.

Isn't that the sort of thing you'd wanting to be doing in an election? Especially when you "lead" a party with no coherent ideology. Which is saying something, when it remains true compared to the notoriously ideology-free Big Two here.

All the better to outflank the government from the right and from the left.

Callan57

alaimacerc wrote: »

Remains to be seen if there's much of a majority of Irish people in favour of assisting other Irish people, come to that. Huge built-in electoral majority for two conservative parties that vaguely pretend to be different. "Left" parties that can't bring themselves to even describe themselves as such, much less to say they'd raise taxation by anything like the amount needed to match their "down with this sort of thing" rhetoric.


Isn't that the sort of thing you'd wanting to be doing in an election? Especially when you "lead" a party with no coherent ideology. Which is saying something, when it remains true compared to the notoriously ideology-free Big Two here.

All the better to outflank the government from the right and from the left.

Riding two horses is a risky strategy - unless, of course, you're in Fossetts circus.

Callan57

Good to hear Michael Lester sounding fit again

Callan57

Woolly headed economics from Paul Murphy again

Happyman42

Callan57 wrote: »

Woolly headed economics from Paul Murphy again

Nothing wooly about where the money went it seems.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/29/where-did-the-greek-bailout-money-go

Odyssey 2005

Callan57 wrote: »

Woolly headed economics from Paul Murphy again

He's coming across as an arrogant,ignorant know it all pr/ck:(

Call me Al

Best news I've heard so far today, Paul Murphy off to Athens shortly.

Callan57

Ah sweet God, you can "make money out of nothing" - Paul Murphy's Economics (now why doesn't that surprise me)

Odyssey 2005

Callan57 wrote: »

Ah sweet God, you can "make money out of nothing" - Paul Murphy's Economics (now why doesn't that surprise me)

He thinks the money tree outside the central bank is real..

Call me Al

I thought it was very interesting that he felt informed enough to tell the Greek gentleman, the chairman of the Athens Chamber of Commerce, how they could turn things around.

touts

Callan57 wrote: »

Woolly headed economics from Paul Murphy again

It would be "woolly" if it wasn't for the socialist rubbish he keeps spouting being so dangerous. Like all hardline socialist states in history his respect for "democracy" won't apply when he is 10 years in office and the polls are running against him.

Callan57

Call me Al wrote: »

I thought it was very interesting that he felt informed enough to tell the Greek gentleman, the chairman of the Athens Chamber of Commerce, how they could turn things around.

Isn't it ever thus ... those who have never created anything pontificating to those who are at least prepared to put a shoulder to the wheel.
Those who can do and those who can't waffle ... :rolleyes:

Uncle Ben

Callan57 wrote: »

Ah sweet God, you can "make money out of nothing" - Paul Murphy's Economics (now why doesn't that surprise me)

I think Murphy is as economically literate as those who believe 11,000,000 Greeks can repay 300 billion. The EEC has gone mad.

Brendan Bendar

Call me Al wrote: »

I thought it was very interesting that he felt informed enough to tell the Greek gentleman, the chairman of the Athens Chamber of Commerce, how they could turn things around.

I always love it when these people, Murphy et al plus the various punters attached to Shane Ross adopt the attitude of knowing the way to sort out all these problems.

They have all the 'solutions' but of course it's the implementing that is the difficult part ,like where does the money,resources,come from.

Who suffers as a result,does it disrupt the market,who operates the system,what are the criteria,where do you start.....all these 'little things'.

I take all those wafflers with a pinch of salt.

Odyssey 2005

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I always love it when these people, Murphy et al plus the various punters attached to Shane Ross adopt the attitude of knowing the way to sort out all these problems.

They have all the 'solutions' but of course it's the implementing that is the difficult part ,like where does the money,resources,come from.

Who suffers as a result,does it disrupt the market,who operates the system,what are the criteria,where do you start.....all these 'little things'.

I take all those wafflers with a pinch of salt.

The problem is that all the anti establishment voters don take them with a pinch of salt,and their number is growing due to the way the present and last government railroaded over us.

Brendan Bendar

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

The problem is that all the anti establishment voters don take them with a pinch of salt,and their number is growing due to the way the present and last government railroaded over us.

Railroaded

Odyssey 2005

Irish water
Not another Red Cent
The great Alan Shatter cover up
Etc etc.

Brendan Bendar

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Irish water
Not another Red Cent
The great Alan Shatter cover up
Etc etc.

Eh?

alaimacerc

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

The problem is that all the anti establishment voters don take them with a pinch of salt,and their number is growing due to the way the present and last government railroaded over us.

Precisely who are these "anti-establishment voters", and what is that they believe? And indeed, want?

I think it's clear that a lot of people voting -- or opinion-polling favourably -- for SF, independents, etc are indeed cheesed off at the present government, and the previous one. Though FG+FF have well over half the electorate in support of them -- and always have. In any other European democracy, that would be a "massive built-in majority for the conservative parties".

But what do these "anti" voters want? If they turn out for Renua, Ross quasi-indies, "gene pool" indies, and other right-populist and incoherent localist ones, then they're in effect voting for exactly the same thing as before... just trying to emplace a new bunch of conventional centre-right spoofers to sell it back to them.

Note in particular that very few of them are voting for the SP or SWP "groupings", so one surely should be very cautious indeed as diagnosing any of the above as a "far left" vote. Or even a coherent "left" vote at all.

Brendan Bendar

alaimacerc wrote: »

Precisely who are these "anti-establishment voters", and what is that they believe? And indeed, want?

I think it's clear that a lot of people voting -- or opinion-polling favourably -- for SF, independents, etc are indeed cheesed off at the present government, and the previous one. Though FG+FF have well over half the electorate in support of them -- and always have. In any other European democracy, that would be a "massive built-in majority for the conservative parties".

But what do these "anti" voters want? If they turn out for Renua, Ross quasi-indies, "gene pool" indies, and other right-populist and incoherent localist ones, then they're in effect voting for exactly the same thing as before... just trying to emplace a new bunch of conventional centre-right spoofers to sell it back to them.




By
Note in particular that very few of them are voting for the SP or SWP "groupings", so one surely should be very cautious indeed as diagnosing any of the above as a "far left" vote. Or even a coherent "left" vote at all.

At the end of the day it's what you ' have to lose' dictates your vote

Those who have savings,property,families, a future want those in power who will,in their view, support those values and not grind them into the ground with taxes to support non-triers.

It encourages them to to advance themselves and gain qualifications to improve their quality of life.
Those who never contributed owt to the national tax cake don't give a fiddlers who is in power , makes no difference to them, therefore they tend to gravitate towards the candidates who promise everything.

That's how it rolls.

touts

Joan Burton is getting her ass kicked by Sean. Destroyed her on Greece, Denis O'Brien and now on single mothers. She's fuming. Grab the popcorn and tune in.

HeidiHeidi

touts wrote: »

Joan Burton is getting her ass kicked by Sean. Destroyed her on Greece, Denis O'Brien and now on single mothers. She's fuming. Grab the popcorn and tune in.

Had to tune out.

Her voice has gone up about an octave since the start of the interview, I feared for my crystal :eek:

Callan57

touts wrote: »

Joan Burton is getting her ass kicked by Sean. Destroyed her on Greece, Denis O'Brien and now on single mothers. She's fuming. Grab the popcorn and tune in.

Why doesn't one of her well paid handlers tell her simply to remain silent until Sean finished? She keeps falling into the trap of trying to shout him down.

touts

She angrily demanded the details of one texter and then calmed down and said it was to "help her". You could imagine the handlers outside the window in the producers booth frantically waving. But there was a definite threatening tone in her voice. She is way way out of her depth.

Bits_n_Bobs

Actually I want a country where political parties follow through on the manifestos they espouse during elections.

Odyssey 2005

Horrible money voice on her. SOR ripping her a new one. Something else for her to talk through though.

Odyssey 2005

We have a long way to go ha ha
And a short time to get there

BarryD

Joan is handling him well enough - easy for media people like SOR with no political or economic responsibilities to ask difficult questions. But could they answer them themselves??

Bits_n_Bobs

Joan says "We'e a number of months to make it better again"

I hear "We're going to piss away money we don't have at the next budget in the vague hope of buying enough votes to scrape in again"

P. Breathnach

Callan57 wrote: »

Why doesn't one of her well paid handlers tell her simply to remain silent until Sean finished? She keeps falling into the trap of trying to shout him down.

It sounded to me that it was Sean doing the shouting down. I don't think that I have ever heard him conduct a more aggressive interview.

Roger_007

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

Actually I want a country where political parties follow through on the manifestos they espouse during elections.

......Provided a majority of the electorate vote for them.
Labour got less than 20% of the vote in the last election and yet they get lambasted for not delivering everything they promised. If most of the electorate wanted what Labour were promising, then most of the electorate would have voted for them..............but they didn't.

BarryD

Roger_007 wrote: »

Labour got less than 20% of the vote in the last election and yet they get lambasted for not delivering everything they promised.

Yep, they're a soft and easy target.

Why doesn't SOR get our Minister for Finance or Taoiseach in and try his luck?

Bits_n_Bobs

Roger_007 wrote: »

......Provided a majority of the electorate vote for them.
Labour got less than 20% of the vote in the last election and yet they get lambasted for not delivering everything they promised. If most of the electorate wanted what Labour were promising, then most of the electorate would have voted for them..............but they didn't.

Questioned about Frankfurts way or Labours way, of which Rabbites response was “Isn’t that what you tend to do during an election?”

And now we have a deafening silece from Labour as Enda gives the Greeks a solid kicking, presumably to please his bosses in Frankfurt.

Appalling.

touts

BarryD wrote: »

Yep, they're a soft and easy target.

Why doesn't SOR get our Minister for Finance or Taoiseach in and try his luck?

He has a fair few FG ministers heads sticking on spikes outside the gates of RTE. He doesn't care which party the incompetent minister comes from.

touts

touts wrote: »

Joan Burton is getting her ass kicked by Sean. Destroyed her on Greece, Denis O'Brien and now on single mothers. She's fuming. Grab the popcorn and tune in.

We must have been listening to different interviews. He was shouting her down and not letting her explain how single parents can help themselves out of a rut. When single parents were getting double payments to do CE schemes, they were well able to get their children minded. Now that double payment is dropped, they don't want to know!

touts

Deleted User wrote: »

We must have been listening to different interviews. He was shouting her down and not letting her explain how single parents can help themselves out of a rut. When single parents were getting double payments to do CE schemes, they were well able to get their children minded. Now that double payment is dropped, they don't want to know!

You must have been reading the talking points Labour HQ sent her in with because you definitely heard a very different interview. He had to interrupt her several times to get her to answer the question he asked not the one she wished he had asked. She was waffling on and on and on and not saying anything. She wasn't explaining anything and that had nothing to do with Sean interrupting. I thought it was a great performance by Sean not willing to take the usual bland rubbish she, and other ministers, trot out.

BarryD

touts wrote: »

He has a fair few FG ministers heads sticking on spikes outside the gates of RTE. He doesn't care which party the incompetent minister comes from.

Which FG ministers?

touts

BarryD wrote: »

Which FG ministers?

Michael Noonan completely lost his temper with him a few weeks ago and came away from it with a PR disaster.

Big Phil was filleted on Irish water and had to skulk off to Europe.

I recall Richard Bruton getting a hammering in the early days.

BarryD

touts wrote: »

Michael Noonan completely lost his temper with him a few weeks ago and came away from it with a PR disaster.

Big Phil was filleted on Irish water and had to skulk off to Europe.

I recall Richard Bruton getting a hammering in the early days.

Well I missed Noonan so.

But Phil Hogan and Irish Water was another very soft and easy target (maybe justifiably). Hard to miss that one!! That'd be a 'tabloid interview'.

touts

BarryD wrote: »

Well I missed Noonan so.

But Phil Hogan and Irish Water was another very soft and easy target (maybe justifiably). Hard to miss that one!! That'd be a 'tabloid interview'.

Ah Get off the stage! Get off the Stage!

http://www.thejournal.ie/noonan-rte-siteserv-2074754-Apr2015/

And Hogan's wasn't a "tabloid interview". As things have turned out and the deals he oversaw have become murkier and murkier as they get investigated further it turns out he got off lightly.

BarryD

touts wrote: »

And Hogan's wasn't a "tabloid interview". As things have turned out and the deals he oversaw have become murkier and murkier as they get investigated further it turns out he got off lightly.

Anything, anything to do with Irish Water has been 'tabloid interview' status with the media for quite a while. The logic of restructuring water services in the country is completely lost, they're just a convenient horse to flog.

HeidiHeidi

Feck's sake, I escaped to the relative calm of Pat Kenny, and now she's on there :mad:

Her voice is back down to a normal pitch though. For now.

Harry Angstrom

touts wrote: »

Joan Burton is getting her ass kicked by Sean. Destroyed her on Greece, Denis O'Brien and now on single mothers. She's fuming. Grab the popcorn and tune in.

She's on now with Pat Kenny. I doubt he'll mention Denis.