Sean O'Rourke Today Show

touts

robo wrote: »

Missed the interview with Sean & Enda, but if Enda has any gumption, he should let Matt Cooper interview him, now that would be a great interview!

You didn't miss anything. It was a very soft interview. Sean would throw out an easy clearly agreeded in advance question. Enda would pretty much read the answer. Sean would throw him another one. Very disappointing.

lochderg

Can't wait to see how these 'luminaries' start the chapter on the Irish crash in their memoirs -'....it was at time of great unfairness for the Irish people....'
'...we knew we were all in it together....'

alaimacerc

robo wrote: »

[...]but if Enda has any gumption [...]

Well, there, as they say, is the rub, no?

Callan57

Puke inducing listening to guys on multiples of the minimum wage discussing a 50c increase .... wonder how much these guys would do for 50c?

RayM

Groups like ISME (and the particularly loathsome 'Small Firms Association', who we'll no doubt here from before the end of the day) have an unhealthy obsession with the idea of paying people as little as they can possibly get away with. They should never be listened to.

P. Breathnach

The ISME thinking is that they should pay "the rate" for the job, and the ability of employees to live decently on their wages is not their concern: that's the job of the government.

So the taxpayer is to be put on the hook to compensate for wages that don't cover modest living costs. That translates into government-subsidised sweatshops.

Brendan Bendar

Callan57 wrote: »

Puke inducing listening to guys on multiples of the minimum wage discussing a 50c increase .... wonder how much these guys would do for 50c?

Normally agree with your view 57 but not on this occasion.

RayM wrote: »

Groups like ISME (and the particularly loathsome 'Small Firms Association', who we'll no doubt here from before the end of the day) have an unhealthy obsession with the idea of paying people as little as they can possibly get away with. They should never be listened to.

Well, there is a statement from someone who, based on that particularly bile fill post, seems not to understand how the economy works.

Bits_n_Bobs

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Well, there is a statement from someone who, based on that particularly bile fill post, seems not to understand how the economy works.

Exactly who understands how the economy works? Banks, governments, civil servants and a plethora of economists seem to have misunderstood 'how the economy works' a few short years ago. They don't appear to have reached much of a consensus in the interim.

RayM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Well, there is a statement from someone who, based on that particularly bile fill post, seems not to understand how the economy works.

Now there's a vacuous post, if ever I saw one. I understand exactly how the likes of ISME work. Pay people as little as you can possibly get away with, and then moan incessantly at the most modest of proposed improvements in workers' conditions.

Callan57

Mark Fielding's comment about "going in to an employer asking them to take one more worker on" is a load of disingenuous twaddle.
The only reason any employer, be they a small business owner or a multi-national company, take on an additional worker/s is if and when they can't get the job done without extra staff and it is bullsh1t to suggest any employer is taking people on for alturistic reasons.
I'd be fairly sure Mark's members spend a hell of a lot more time mulling over how they can get the job done with the least number of emplees possible rather that discussing job creation for the "good of the country".

Callan57

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Normally agree with your view 57 but not on this occasion.

I'm suitably flattered!
But, do you not think there is something reminiscent of the "Charlie Haughey belt tightening speech" about those on hefty salaries discussing a 50c increase for others?

HeidiHeidi

Trouble after the airshow. Now there's a surprise.

Can we not do anything - even have a nice summer's day FFS - in this country without it descending into a drunken brawl :mad:

(and yes I do know it's a tiny minority who cause this ****e)

Brendan Bendar

Callan57 wrote: »

I'm suitably flattered!
But, do you not think there is something reminiscent of the "Charlie Haughey belt tightening speech" about those on hefty salaries discussing a 50c increase for others?

Not on this occasion.You see,57, the real skill in management is to manage when times are 'good'.

Don't want to get away too much from topic, but that was the downfall of Bertie, Biffo et al. They just threw money at everything, let the PS run riot, let prices get out of control not seeming to realise that once the toothpaste is out of the tube,it's verrrrrry difficult to get it back in:p

This country is barely, I repeat, barely, in recovery and the domestic economy,particularly the small businesses are really struggling, and that struggle is very uneven as the lad said.
We have the 3rd highest min wage in Europe and to remain competitive we HAVE to keep check on costs.
Believe me 50c an hour would put a lot of these concerns in retrench mode, either cutting hours or letting people go.

Sorry for being a bit long winded but I would not equate genuine concern for the health and stability of the domestic economy across all locations and industries with the hypocritical " tighten your belts" from CJH.

Callan57

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Not on this occasion.You see,57, the real skill in management is to manage when times are 'good'.

Don't want to get away too much from topic, but that was the downfall of Bertie, Biffo et al. They just threw money at everything, let the PS run riot, let prices get out of control not seeming to realise that once the toothpaste is out of the tube,it's verrrrrry difficult to get it back in:p

This country is barely, I repeat, barely, in recovery and the domestic economy,particularly the small businesses are really struggling, and that struggle is very uneven as the lad said.
We have the 3rd highest min wage in Europe and to remain competitive we HAVE to keep check on costs.
Believe me 50c an hour would put a lot of these concerns in retrench mode, either cutting hours or letting people go.

Sorry for being a bit long winded but I would not equate genuine concern for the health and stability of the domestic economy across all locations and industries with the hypocritical " tighten your belts" from CJH.

I'm was not talking about the amount of increase, or even the justification or otherwise for any increase, I talking about the optics of people on big salaries discussing very minute increases for others. But aside for the optics even surely it would make a lot more sense to hold the line or indeed "tighten up" at the top first (perish the thought!). After all it wasn't workers on minimum wage who bankrupted the country now was it?

foxtrot101

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Not on this occasion.You see,57, the real skill in management is to manage when times are 'good'.

Don't want to get away too much from topic, but that was the downfall of Bertie, Biffo et al. They just threw money at everything, let the PS run riot, let prices get out of control not seeming to realise that once the toothpaste is out of the tube,it's verrrrrry difficult to get it back in:p

This country is barely, I repeat, barely, in recovery and the domestic economy,particularly the small businesses are really struggling, and that struggle is very uneven as the lad said.
We have the 3rd highest min wage in Europe and to remain competitive we HAVE to keep check on costs.
Believe me 50c an hour would put a lot of these concerns in retrench mode, either cutting hours or letting people go.

Sorry for being a bit long winded but I would not equate genuine concern for the health and stability of the domestic economy across all locations and industries with the hypocritical " tighten your belts" from CJH.

Only around 3% to 4% of all the jobs in the economy pay the minimum wage. The "health and stability of the domestic economy across all locations and industries" would not be threatened by a 50 cent increase in the rate. Any affect would be negligible.

Brendan Bendar

Callan57 wrote: »

I talking about the optics of people on big salaries discussing very minute increases for others. But aside for the optics even surely it would make a lot more sense to hold the line or indeed "tighten up" at the top first (perish the thought!). After all it wasn't workers on minimum wage who bankrupted the country now was it?

With all due respects who the Fcuk else would talk about national min. wage increases?

People on €12.00 per hour !

Remember the top first as you refer to them pay huge amounts of tax.

Remember that the top first are by and large universally qualified and internationLly mobile, so if they are being screwed here,they will move elsewhere,with the consequent huge loss of revenue.

People here need to wise up and realise that we need to be competitive, that means competitive rates of pay, productivity to match that, and prices that consumers are prepared to pay.

Fcuk all use paying a guy in a hamburger van €11.00 an hour if you have to charge €5.00 for a burger and nobody buys?

C'mon man, understand the situation in this country, forget the socialist idealism for a few hours eh ??

Callan57

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

With all due respects who the Fcuk else would talk about national min. wage increases?

People on €12.00 per hour !

Remember the top first as you refer to them pay huge amounts of tax.

Remember that the top first are by and large universally qualified and internationLly mobile, so if they are being screwed here,they will move elsewhere,with the consequent huge loss of revenue.

People here need to wise up and realise that we need to be competitive, that means competitive rates of pay, productivity to match that, and prices that consumers are prepared to pay.

Fcuk all use paying a guy in a hamburger van €11.00 an hour if you have to charge €5.00 for a burger and nobody buys?

C'mon man, understand the situation in this country, forget the socialist idealism for a few hours eh ??

What a pity these "high achievers" aren't articulate enough to have a discussion without resorting to vulgarity.

Brendan Bendar

Callan57 wrote: »

What a pity these "high achievers" aren't articulate enough to have a discussion without resorting to vulgarity.

What a pity some people saddle up the high horse when confronted with reality.

michael999999

Callan57 wrote: »

What a pity these "high achievers" aren't articulate enough to have a discussion without resorting to vulgarity.

That's middle Ireland for you!

honeybear

Just listening to podcast of today's show. Did anyone think Vincent McGee? Didn't sound very well when looking back on the sporting weekend-I think it was his breathing which sounded quite laboured?

Bits_n_Bobs

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

With all due respects who the Fcuk else would talk about national min. wage increases?

People on €12.00 per hour !

Remember the top first as you refer to them pay huge amounts of tax.

Remember that the top first are by and large universally qualified and internationLly mobile, so if they are being screwed here,they will move elsewhere,with the consequent huge loss of revenue.

People here need to wise up and realise that we need to be competitive, that means competitive rates of pay, productivity to match that, and prices that consumers are prepared to pay.

Fcuk all use paying a guy in a hamburger van €11.00 an hour if you have to charge €5.00 for a burger and nobody buys?

C'mon man, understand the situation in this country, forget the socialist idealism for a few hours eh ??

You are of course correct. If the dirty uneducated and likely smelly proletariat would only realise that we need to drop their wages to a level comparable to China in order to 'compete' the country would be 'booming and getting boomier' to paraphrase one of our great leaders...

padd b1975

Here's Sinead!

Stating the bloody obvious.....

Brendan Bendar

Callan57 wrote: »

I'm was not talking about the amount of increase, or even the justification or otherwise for any increase, I talking about the optics of people on big salaries discussing very minute increases for others. But aside for the optics even surely it would make a lot more sense to hold the line or indeed "tighten up" at the top first (perish the thought!). After all it wasn't workers on minimum wage who bankrupted the country now was it?

The 'optics' of discussing an increase in the NMW on national radio is, in my opinion, is a far reaching decision which would impact on many businesses in this country and would be a major policy decision for any Govt.

Therefore the 'optics' of people on big salaries debating it wouldn't surprise me at all.

alaimacerc

Relatedly... what are the "optics" of using the word "optics" to mean "appearances"? As opposed to using "optics" to mean "optics"?

Just wondering.

hullaballoo

Mod:

If you want to discuss the meanings and origins of words, please do so in either Linguistics & Etymology or the English language forum. Please don't derail this thread further. It does nothing to enhance the optics of this forum.

neris

another man blaming the drink for his anger issues. amazing the amount of people who go out at a weekend get ****faced and dont cause public order offences or get arrested. funny how paddy never seems to get an interview out of someone up on their 1st offence that involves booze

Callan57

The weather might be lousey but at least it's good to be listening to good economic news for a change - fairly obvious in Galway yesterday that we're over the "great unpleasantness". Onwards and Upwards!

Bits_n_Bobs

Ivana sent out to bat and defend the shambles of Irish Water..."Eurostat is rong rong rong" seems to be her line

Callan57

Michael O'Regan talks an awful lot of sense - there comes a time when you just have to cut your losses

Bits_n_Bobs

So Ivana thinks no-one should be made redundant no matter how overstaffed it is? And this is the reason why eurostat didn't give it a nod and a wink

neris

Wonder will ivanna be running in the next general election or has she taken the hint after not getting in so many times

BarryD

Callan57 wrote: »

Michael O'Regan talks an awful lot of sense - there comes a time when you just have to cut your losses

IMVHO, Michael O'Regan talks a lot of nonsense - the Anti Irish Water thing he fulminates about was as much a creature of the media as anything else. The hacks were searching for a story, any story, any angle that could show that the Irish public would revolt against austerity.

Those that wanted to stir the pot got lucky eventually and the thing took off. But do Michael O'Regan and other journos like him put their hands up now - no, they just wash their hands of their own involvement and continue to stick the boot in.

The weird thing is that Irish Water for all its faults is very necessary and people should be paying for the amount of water they use. This governments big mistake is in not sticking to their original plans of metered water, with meaningful sanctions against those who will not pay.

Callan57

BarryD wrote: »

IMVHO, Michael O'Regan talks a lot of nonsense - the Anti Irish Water thing he fulminates about was as much a creature of the media as anything else. The hacks were searching for a story, any story, any angle that could show that the Irish public would revolt against austerity.

Those that wanted to stir the pot got lucky eventually and the thing took off. But do Michael O'Regan and other journos like him put their hands up now - no, they just wash their hands of their own involvement and continue to stick the boot in.

The weird thing is that Irish Water for all its faults is very necessary and people should be paying for the amount of water they use. This governments big mistake is in not sticking to their original plans of metered water, with meaningful sanctions against those who will not pay.

I don't disagree with you & I am totally in favour of the user paying for water as anyother utility but if you leave an open goal you can hardly complain when someone comes along & kicks a ball into it.

Harry Angstrom

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

So Ivana thinks no-one should be made redundant no matter how overstaffed it is? And this is the reason why eurostat didn't give it a nod and a wink

The Seanad is also overstaffed with individuals who serve no meaningful purpose. Our senators are kindred spirits with the staff of Irish Water.

BarryD

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

The Seanad is also overstaffed with individuals who serve no meaningful purpose. Our senators are kindred spirits with the staff of Irish Water.

Well we had our chance to abolish the Seanad, an open goal and missed from point blank range.

Del.Monte

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

The Seanad is also overstaffed with individuals who serve no meaningful purpose. Our senators are kindred spirits with the staff of Irish Water.

Ditto the Dail and much of the apparatus of State.

First Up

BarryD wrote: »

IMVHO, Michael O'Regan talks a lot of nonsense - the Anti Irish Water thing he fulminates about was as much a creature of the media as anything else. The hacks were searching for a story, any story, any angle that could show that the Irish public would revolt against austerity.

Those that wanted to stir the pot got lucky eventually and the thing took off. But do Michael O'Regan and other journos like him put their hands up now - no, they just wash their hands of their own involvement and continue to stick the boot in.

The weird thing is that Irish Water for all its faults is very necessary and people should be paying for the amount of water they use. This governments big mistake is in not sticking to their original plans of metered water, with meaningful sanctions against those who will not pay.

Nothing weird about it. Payment on consumption was and still is the most sensible and equitable system but they bottled it (pun intended.)

A decent free allowance along with metered charges over and above would raise revenue from where it should be, influence behaviour and put it on the same basis as payment for all other utilities.

I have some sympathy for Irish Water trying to do an important job against the background of hysterical, opportunistic and nonsensical protests and a loss of political resolve and support that is very uncharacteristic of a government that has been exemplary in driving through necessary change in other areas.

Bits_n_Bobs

First Up wrote: »

a government that has been exemplary in driving through necessary change in other areas.

You mean in areas like health, justice, the legal profession, banking, childcare, planning or immigration? Or am I missing some other stellar area of reform?

Harry Angstrom

BarryD wrote: »

Well we had our chance to abolish the Seanad, an open goal and missed from point blank range.

An open goal until vested interests such as Democracy Matters, and assorted cranks and nutjobs duped the electorate into retaining it.

First Up

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

You mean in areas like health, justice, the legal profession, banking, childcare, planning or immigration? Or am I missing some other stellar area of reform?

Sorting the economy which was the absolute priority. Everything else follows.

Bits_n_Bobs

First Up wrote: »

Sorting the economy which was the absolute priority. Everything else follows.

Apologies, I assume other people believe society is the priority.

You are of course correct - they did an awesome job securing the prom-notes and then following the course plotted out by the troika and FF.

The economy is indeed rattling along on the basis of increasing GDP, of which we have the second highest in the EU (Eurostat). People who believe that the 'economy' as measured by GDP is a bit simplistic might argue that living standards are much more interesting. Which in Ireland is 10% below the EU average (Eurostat).

L1011

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

Apologies, I assume other people believe society is the priority.

Try funding a society with no cash.

Callan57

L1011 wrote: »

Try funding a society with no cash.

Exactly ... but some people do still belive in the magic money fairy :rolleyes:

Bits_n_Bobs

L1011 wrote: »

Try funding a society with no cash.

As I said - simplistic.

First Up

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

As I said - simplistic.

The obvious often is.

neris

Callan57 wrote: »

Exactly ... but some people do still belive in the magic money fairy :rolleyes:

but the magic money fairy sends some believers to meet their socialist magic money fairy believing brethren in Greece

michael999999

Callan57 wrote: »

Exactly ... but some people do still belive in the magic money fairy :rolleyes:

You mean like fianna fail who bankrupt the country while in Government, or fine Gael who wanted them to spend even MORE while on the opposition benches?

Magic money tree indeed!

Bits_n_Bobs

neris wrote: »

but the magic money fairy sends some believers to meet their socialist magic money fairy believing brethren in Greece

Of course it's the 6 months of economic misrule by the socialists that bankrupted the Greek economy, rather than the preceeding 25 years of 'economic growth' policies that did it.

I have zero interest in anything to do with 'socialism' but claims that shambles such as Irish Water are somehow mitigated by FG's revolutionary 'economic policies' (of which there are precisely zero) are just weird.

Callan57

michael999999 wrote: »

You mean like fianna fail who bankrupt the country while in Government, or fine Gael who wanted them to spend even MORE while on the opposition benches?

Magic money tree indeed!

The significant point being "while on the opposition benches"
It's a bit like if I spend the housekeeping on sweets for the kids and then complain when they are hungry "but ye wanted me to buy even more sweets".

First Up

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

Of course it's the 6 months of economic misrule by the socialists that bankrupted the Greek economy, rather than the preceeding 25 years of 'economic growth' policies that did it.

I have zero interest in anything to do with 'socialism' but claims that shambles such as Irish Water are somehow mitigated by FG's revolutionary 'economic policies' (of which there are precisely zero) are just weird.

Other way round. It is the "revolutionary" policies of Syriza that cut the hole in their safety net, whereas the slow, steady and - yes, painful - approach of their predecessors was starting to work.

In our case, the approach has been slow, steady and - yes, painful - and it has worked, while some have been courting popularity by promising "revolutionary" policies.

That is why the muddle they have made of water charges is so surprising and disappointing.