Sean O'Rourke Today Show

touts

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

It would have taken 10 minutes to clean that poor aul fella up and give him his dignity back

all staff to run off their feet to give him 10 minutes assistance Mr Doran????

bullsh1t

Indeed. The Health service is a disaster but the standard line of "Frontline staff are doing their best" is starting unraveling. Nurses and Doctors must have passed this poor man and left him lying in filth because they just couldn't be bothered. You can blame moral, you can blame having too many other things to do, but at a basic level of pure humanity this man should have been a priority.

touts

Shocking that people are forced to band together in groups to defend their farms from these gangs because the justice industry has failed. Unfortunately I'll bet if there is an altercation and one of the gang vermin gets shot then there won't be a shortage of guards or lawyers to prosecute the poor farmer.

serfboard

touts wrote: »

this man should have been a priority.

Patient A is unwell, but in need of a cleanup.

Patient B is seriously unwell.

Who do you prioritise?

touts

serfboard wrote: »

Patient A is unwell, but in need of a cleanup.

Patient B is seriously unwell.

Who do you prioritise?

The man was there for hours in that condition. Was there a bus crash or outbreak of Ebola that Beaumont were dealing with that day?

serfboard

touts wrote: »

The man was there for hours in that condition.

So length of stay trumps seriousness of condition?

I seriously hope you don't work in the medical profession ...

P. Breathnach

touts wrote: »

The man was there for hours in that condition. Was there a bus crash or outbreak of Ebola that Beaumont were dealing with that day?

I don't want to belittle the problems patients suffer, but it might as well have been.

It's a matter of staff/patient ratio. A major emergency event results in staff being swamped, and unable to deliver a full care package immediately that it is required. A significant shortage of staff has the same effect - and that is the point that Doran was making. He wasn't defending the failure in care: he was explaining it.

touts

serfboard wrote: »

So length of stay trumps seriousness of condition?

I seriously hope you don't work in the medical profession ...

No but I think it is pretty clear you do.

The man was there for hours, possibly days in that condition. Are you seriously claiming there wasn't a nurse in the whole hospital who wasn't dealing with a critically ill patient every minute of that time. Rubbish. The much vaulted frontline staff messed up in this case. It happens. What is most worrying it the way people like Doran and yourself are closing ranks and refusing to accept responsibility for utter humanitarian failing in the health service.

If we foster a culture where Nurses can't be blamed for anything then they will get away with everything.

touts

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I don't want to belittle the problems patients suffer, but it might as well have been.

It's a matter of staff/patient ratio. A major emergency event results in staff being swamped, and unable to deliver a full care package immediately that it is required. A significant shortage of staff has the same effect - and that is the point that Doran was making. He wasn't defending the failure in care: he was explaining it.

But there wasn't a major emergency event. Nurses were busy but they had a choice to make and it appears they choose to ignore this man. For hours. And hours. And Hours...

Brendan Bendar

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I don't want to belittle the problems patients suffer, but it might as well have been.

It's a matter of staff/patient ratio. A major emergency event results in staff being swamped, and unable to deliver a full care package immediately that it is required. A significant shortage of staff has the same effect - and that is the point that Doran was making. He wasn't defending the failure in care: he was explaining it.

I couldn't listen to the show but if Mr Doran was explaining the reasons, I'm sure he outlined the numbers of staff rostered,the actual numbers there and any discrepancy between the two and the reason for any discrepancy?

That,to me ,would be one of the more absolute basic pertinent figures in all this.

Can you fill us in P?

IvyTheTerrible

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I couldn't listen to the show but if Mr Doran was explaining the reasons, I'm sure he outlined the numbers of staff rostered,the actual numbers there and any discrepancy between the two and the reason for any discrepancy?

That,to me ,would be one of the more absolute basic pertinent figures in all this.

Can you fill us in P?

Haha, he did in his eye give those figures!

Brendan Bendar

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Haha, he did in his eye give those figures!

Heh heh well he better start giving those figures because everything else makes no sense unless we have those bad boys:cool:

P. Breathnach

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I couldn't listen to the show but if Mr Doran was explaining the reasons, I'm sure he outlined the numbers of staff rostered,the actual numbers there and any discrepancy between the two and the reason for any discrepancy?

That,to me ,would be one of the more absolute basic pertinent figures in all this.

Can you fill us in P?

He said that the unit was five staff down. I took it that he was referring to nursing staff.

Brendan Bendar

P. Breathnach wrote: »

He said that the unit was five staff down. I took it that he was referring to nursing staff.

Thanks P.

The real issue is ,of course, how many were on the planned roster,why were they 5 down.

What was the reason:

Was it just not enough staff and more recruitment needed.

Was it the number rostered available but were down due to illness etc.

Was it the rostered numbers were unrealistic for the expected workload.

Was it that the expected workload exceed the 'planned' workload-why?

All these issues impact the patient experience.

it would be nice to know the exact scenario,rather than tossing out vested interest figures.

Bits_n_Bobs

So John Crown thinks our revered high lord god almighties themselves Consultants should not be retired...I'm in favour with this as soon as we get transparency from an independent body as to their competence.

neris

so consultants should be allowed work till the day they die just so the hse doesnt have to pay a pension to a retired consultant, pay a salary to their replacement and pay the pension contributions of that replacement. im sure mr crown is very worried about the hse overpaying salaries etc

Bits_n_Bobs

Rumours of The Revered One monstrous losses of their savings due to property speculation during the boom have nothing to do with this proposal...

neris

why do these scum get the air time. happy about going to prison coz he,ll have tv electricity and 3 meals a day. isnt the justice system just great.

touts

While some people don't want to retire I suspect many many more look forward to it. If we abolish the retirement age then that allows the government and companies to raise the age at which they start paying pensions to 70, 75 or even 80. It's all well and good to say if you are fit for work you should work regardless of what age you are but I don't want to work until I'm no longer capable of enjoying life. That's what this is really about and that's why I (in my 30s) have planned for my pension on the basis that I won't get a state pension at all.

neris

maybe east european style prisons is what we need then

touts

neris wrote: »

maybe east european style prisons is what we need then

I'll bet you the Irish Penal Reform Trust and the Irish Council for Criminal Liberties aren't available to comment on this segment.

touts

I swear your honor I would have paid the fine if I got the letter. Yes your honour I know I hadn't paid my car tax either but you can trust me I would have paid the fine and taken the penalty points if only I got the letter.

Callan57

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

Rumours of The Revered One monstrous losses of their savings due to property speculation during the boom have nothing to do with this proposal...

:):)

Welsh Megaman

Mmm...nice.

http://i3.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article926331.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/john-thomson-fast-show-jazz-image-1-996834484.jpg.

PeterTheEighth

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

all staff to run off their feet to give him 10 minutes assistance Mr Doran????

Liam Doran gets far too easy a ride when he's interviewed on radio. He's allowed to whinge and moan about everything, and is never held accountable for anything. Nurses are universally held in very high esteem, and rightly so (as it's a very tough job), and I dont think anybody wants to be seem to be critical of them.

But Liam Doran is not a nurse*, he is a lobbyist for a large group of workers. It's not his remit to give an honest assessment of the pay and conditions of nurses, it's his job to present their situation as being as bad as possible (so that they will get improvements in the pay and conditions). When he comes on for radio interviews he should be treated as such.

* I think he was in the past.

Harry Angstrom

PeterTheEighth wrote: »

Liam Doran gets far too easy a ride when he's interviewed on radio. He's allowed to whinge and moan about everything, and is never held accountable for anything. Nurses are universally held in very high esteem, and rightly so (as it's a very tough job), and I dont think anybody wants to be seem to be critical of them.

But Liam Doran is not a nurse*, he is a lobbyist for a large group of workers. It's not his remit to give an honest assessment of the pay and conditions of nurses, it's his job to present their situation as being as bad as possible (so that they will get improvements in the pay and conditions). When he comes on for radio interviews he should be treated as such.

* I think he was in the past.

He wasn't all that willing to disclose his salary to Jonathan Healy today, apart from saying it was a lot less than yer man from the IFA was getting. If I was a member of the INMO, I'd want to know exactly how much Doran was being paid, considering it's the union subs that are paying for it.

neris

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

He wasn't all that willing to disclose his salary to Jonathan Healy today, apart from saying it was a lot less than yer man from the IFA was getting. If I was a member of the INMO, I'd want to know exactly how much Doran was being paid, considering it's the union subs that are paying for it.

yeah but whats a lot less? joe duffy would tell us he gets a lot less then the IFA guy (and expect us to hail him as a hero) but then Enda gets alot less then Joe and he,s running a country. Its all very well these union guys coming on telling hows badly their members are paid, treated etc but can you really take a union head earning a 6 figure salary if your years on the career ladder in any job or industry struggling to make nearly a half of his salary. Jack OConnor, Liam Doran, etc are the biggest bunch of hypocrites around

Nody

//MOD

Radio show discussion people; not salaries...

//MOD

BarryD

Bit confusing. Salaries were the subject in part of above radio discussions, they've cropped up on practically every current affairs programme on radio this last week or so?

Callan57

Hanafin again - would she ever .....

I'll have to listen to see how she deals with exorbitant salaries and PENSIONS - I expect much po-faced self-righteous indignation :eek:

touts

Good god. Sending this poor family a tax bill for the money they have raised to build a home for their disabled terminally sons. A house which they then plan to donate to the community after their children die so long term they won't even benefit from the house.

Some of the officials in the Revenue Commissioners are utterly heartless bastards.

BarryD

touts wrote: »

Good god. Sending this poor family a tax bill for the money they have raised to build a home for their disabled terminally sons. A house which they then plan to donate to the community after their children die so long term they won't even benefit from the house.

Some of the officials in the Revenue Commissioners are utterly heartless bastards.

The 'system' always has difficulties dealing with things outside the norm, which is what the above is about. There's rules and regulations that suit the generality and these are implemented, partly to protect the officials from accusations of bias & corruption and partly to protect the greater public good. That's my read on it - it's tough but discretion comes at a cost.

Callan57

touts wrote: »

Good god. Sending this poor family a tax bill for the money they have raised to build a home for their disabled terminally sons. A house which they then plan to donate to the community after their children die so long term they won't even benefit from the house.

Some of the officials in the Revenue Commissioners are utterly heartless bastards.

Seriously! do we really want a situation where the individual Revenue "official" uses their "discretion" on whether or not to implement the rules? Didn't we have plenty of that in the past!
I know the situation is very sad and all but did they not think of getting some advise before they started raising money?

touts

Callan57 wrote: »

Seriously! do we really want a situation where the individual Revenue "official" uses their "discretion" on whether or not to implement the rules? Didn't we have plenty of that in the past!
I know the situation is very sad and all but did they not think of getting some advise before they started raising money?

This is a very unusual situation and not one that would have been picked up on through the normal processes. Someone had to have used their "discretion" to pick up on the gift of land from the farmer, go and get it valued, and then slap a tax bill on the family. That's just heartless. It wouldn't surprise me if some little evil bollox sitting in revenue listening to the radio, heard one of the past interviews with the family outlining all the battles they have had with local & national bureaucracy, picked up on the "gift" of land and decided there was no way the HSE and planning people were having this all to themselves and decided to join in the fun giving them another good kicking. I'm all for checks and balances to make sure no one with influence is getting their tax bill "sorted" but surely there should be some degree of discretion in cases where there is clearly no real financial gain for the individuals involved.

P. Breathnach

touts wrote: »

This is a very unusual situation and not one that would have been picked up on through the normal processes. Someone had to have used their "discretion" to pick up on the gift of land from the farmer, go and get it valued, and then slap a tax bill on the family. That's just heartless. It wouldn't surprise me if some little evil bollox sitting in revenue listening to the radio, heard one of the past interviews with the family outlining all the battles they have had with local & national bureaucracy, picked up on the "gift" of land and decided there was no way the HSE and planning people were having this all to themselves and decided to join in the fun giving them another good kicking. I'm all for checks and balances to make sure no one with influence is getting their tax bill "sorted" but surely there should be some degree of discretion in cases where there is clearly no real financial gain for the individuals involved.

In my experience, Revenue is not staffed by little evil bolloxes (and, if there are any, they are controlled by senior officers who oversee their work).

The Revenue Commissioners are (rightly) allowed very little discretion. They are an executive and administrative body, not a policy-making one.

BarryD

Hope the kidnapped family and the security man yesterday are not listening to Paul Williams this morning.. there's always something a bit unsettling about the media when it feeds off the misfortunes of others.

PeterTheEighth

BarryD wrote: »

Hope the kidnapped family and the security man yesterday are not listening to Paul Williams this morning.. there's always something a bit unsettling about the media when it feeds off the misfortunes of others.

I was thinking that myself Barry. Ridiculous that Williams should casually suggest that the security driver may have contacted the police, without any consideration for the possible consequences for the guy's family.

PeterTheEighth

Jaysus, he gets an interview with Steven Gerrard and starts interrogating about Robbie Keane's prospect of making the Ireland squad for the Euros!!

neris

only caught the end of that gerrard interview. what a dull monotone voice.

as for paddy in the market with the mother bringing the kids to see daddy in wheatfield for xmas, suppose you might aswell show the kids where they,ll spend most of their adult lives

PeterTheEighth

You know I was just starting to feel sorry for that woman, telling us about how sad a time Christmas was for her because of lack of money. Then she tells us that she blew the taxpayers money on Rihanna tickets.

neris

PeterTheEighth wrote: »

You know I was just starting to feel sorry for that woman, telling us about how sad a time Christmas was for her because of lack of money. Then she tells us that she blew the taxpayers money on Rihanna tickets.

and an xbox dont forget. pisses me off listening to these and their "medical" issues and whining that they dont get enough money from social welfare

Odyssey 2005

Where did he dig up those Henry Girls. . Pure crap

PeterTheEighth

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Where did he dig up those Henry Girls. . Pure crap

Ah they're good enough. But that second song was something like you would expect on a children's program. Really didn't fit the show.

PeterTheEighth

I like Mariead McGuinness. I think she's a strong speaker.

Happyman42

Sean should shut up and chair the debate, he sounds like he has a horse in the race.

touts

Happyman42 wrote: »

Sean should shut up and chair the debate, he sounds like he has a horse in the race.

Well after Eamon Dunphy called the government the most corrupt in history and when challenged for examples or proof Peadar Tobin weighed in with Denis O'Brien I'd say Sean is getting an ear bashing from the legal department on his chairing technique about now.

Clive Bisquette

neris wrote: »

and an xbox dont forget. pisses me off listening to these and their "medical" issues and whining that they dont get enough money from social welfare

Sure they are grand..."bubbly personalities" and "free spirits" which is code for they like having a good time - preferably at somebody's expense - and don't give a flying f#%k about anyone or anything..except themselves.

Happyman42

touts wrote: »

Well after Eamon Dunphy called the government the most corrupt in history and when challenged for examples or proof Peadar Tobin weighed in with Denis O'Brien I'd say Sean is getting an ear bashing from the legal department on his chairing technique about now.

If he had just chaired the debate instead of poo pooing the idea (which was Mairead Mcguinness's job) we might have found out why Eamonn thinks that. Instead we got a mayhem of voices. Very unprofessional.

touts

neris wrote: »

and an xbox dont forget. pisses me off listening to these and their "medical" issues and whining that they dont get enough money from social welfare

If we told them we would cover all their key expenses for things like medical treatment, food, education etc BUT only with service/product specific vouchers that couldn't be blown on rubbish like Rihanna Tickets and X-Boxes then you'd hear some world class whining.

neris

touts wrote: »

If we told them we would cover all their key expenses for things like medical treatment, food, education etc BUT only with service/product specific vouchers that couldn't be blown on rubbish like Rihanna Tickets and X-Boxes then you'd hear some world class whining.

They should be getting some sort of vouchers for the Essentials and then let the govt give the cash to the shop/service. Too many people on social scamming it and making false claims.

Brendan Bendar

touts wrote: »

Well after Eamon Dunphy called the government the most corrupt in history and when challenged for examples or proof Peadar Tobin weighed in with Denis O'Brien I'd say Sean is getting an ear bashing from the legal department on his chairing technique about now.

Dunphy got his arse handed to him after that comment, by McGuiness and Sean.

the usual guff,all blowhard and no backup.