Rezoning in Delgany LAP 2013 - 2019

Langerland

Muff Richardson wrote: »

gimme a bucket and a break. I take it you took this powerful passionate stance when all the developments around those quaint tranquil villages in the midlands were taking place over the last 15 years.

the population is growing, wake up. the mé féin attitude in this country is alive and kicking...

To be fair Muff, I think the ongoing Harbour issue is a little too raw. The Greystones / Delgany area has a severe eyesore as a legacy from the boom which, to be fair, most people I know were against and opposed.

I do take your point regarding development in the area to cater for growing populations, etc. However, I still don't see the point of rezoning lands when there are still vast areas of unused land between Charlesland and Edengate and also on the Blacklion side of the town. But as you say, it would be easier to rezone and bulldoze this area in Delgany rather than deal with the red tape associated with these lands. I hope this doesn't happen.

I'm sure Simon Harris TD will come on board

Maudi

Muff Richardson wrote: »

can exact plans be seen before opposing anything??? this is all here say and conjecture. urban sprawl and growing population is a reality and needs to be dealt with, a quaint village with good logistics, plenty of development opportunity and 30 minutes from the city centre is going to have to succumb to
some form of development at some stage.

it's all very well for those in houses out there that are worried about their view of luscious green pastures but what about the rest of us that need housing close enough to the city without having to move to Westmeath or the likes.

all that talk of "you'd think we'd have learned our lesson from the Celtic tiger era" is nonsense and irrelevant. we have learned our lesson and you can be damn sure that if something like this is being proposed and goes ahead its a bloody necessity for a host social and economic reasons, and I would be fairly confident it will be a project done with care and due diligence because of what's happened in the past.

as i say the growing population is a reality that needs to be dealt with, get over it and think of it as a necessity and accept that much. I for one, welcome this news and hope it gets the green light sooner rather than later.

Not really.do you consider the hugh harbour monolith "necessary" do you think the vast amount of empty housing estates "necessary"or all the half finished /abandoned houses/factorys "necessary"...the current council inc manager arent fit to over see a plan of this proportion..you want to see delgany left like bray or greystones harbour? Abandoned half finished and nobody in charge or responsible...i certainly DONT.

Muff Richardson

Maudi wrote: »

Not really.do you consider the hugh harbour monolith "necessary" do you think the vast amount of empty housing estates "necessary"or all the half finished /abandoned houses/factorys "necessary"...the current council inc manager arent fit to over see a plan of this proportion..you want to see delgany left like bray or greystones harbour? Abandoned half finished and nobody in charge or responsible...i certainly DONT.

can we please get off the Celtic tiger era collosul foul up that was all the mindless developments without an ounce of planning? are we never to develop again because of this time?

not once did I say any of those examples you give of half built this and that during the Celtic tiger were a necessity so I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

also, on the conspiracy theorist above that thinks any form of development has an evil underlying agenda only to line the pockets of those in charge, can we please give straight facts without just mindless they are out to get rich and do us and nature over stuff. you didn't give a single bit of factual information other than this. you also mention that there are plenty of other places available for rezoning in the area, just not in Delgany right, because this is where you don't want it so anywhere else.

again, the Celtic tiger time was madness and has very little place in this discussion other than to show how it shouldn't be done so can we give it up? its a weak argument against developing anywhere else ever again, and also said land is undoubtedly tied up in banks and legal battles, unfortunately they aren't sites available to be built on no questions asked instead of new developments that Delgany and the likes can offer.

can somebody please give a good reason why Delgany should not be developed outside of "its mine and I don't want anyone ruining it for me"??? because I haven't anything other than this and conspiracy theory claptrap with no facts regarding the project yet, convince me otherwise. even some bloody cavemans remains and the ancient ruins of his home buried around there would do as a good reason not to develop.

Maudi

Muff Richardson wrote: »

can we please get off the Celtic tiger era collosul foul up that was all the mindless developments without an ounce of planning? are we never to develop again because of this time?

not once did I say any of those examples you give of half built this and that during the Celtic tiger were a necessity so I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

also, on the conspiracy theorist above that thinks any form of development has an evil underlying agenda only to line the pockets of those in charge, can we please give straight facts without just mindless they are out to get rich and do us and nature over stuff. you didn't give a single bit of factual information other than this. you also mention that there are plenty of other places available for rezoning in the area, just not in Delgany right, because this is where you don't want it so anywhere else.

again, the Celtic tiger time was madness and has very little place in this discussion other than to show how it shouldn't be done so can we give it up? its a weak argument against developing anywhere else ever again, and also said land is undoubtedly tied up in banks and legal battles, unfortunately they aren't sites available to be built on no questions asked instead of new developments that Delgany and the likes can offer.

can somebody please give a good reason why Delgany should not be developed outside of "its mine and I don't want anyone ruining it for me"??? because I haven't anything other than this and conspiracy theory claptrap with no facts regarding the project yet, convince me otherwise. even some bloody cavemans remains and the ancient ruins of his home buried around there would do as a good reason not to develop.

Im dreadfully sorry but you seem to think the mistakes of the past "wont" happen again..because why?people are right to be frightened of this type of move and rightly so..we are the ones left in the "sh#$..when sisk or the like pull out..you say it wont ..shouldnt ..happen again..im saying it will..

Prof252

You're missing the point Muff.

Let me spell it out for you and all those who do not live in the exact vicinity or who fail to appreciate the preservation of this island's beauty.

1. It is an outstanding area of natural beauty and heritage. That means we leave it to remain so. We be very 'me fein' about that one.
2. Zoning for new housing and amenities are to be located and looked for more wisely and sensitively by the counsellors, planners etc. etc. That's their job. That's what they're paid for. Read that again: Wise. Sensitive. Respectable traits one would expect for a country that is borrowing billions to pay for itself.
3. What more 'facts' do you require?
Rezoning = development + pollution between the Glen of the Downs and Blackberry Lane. Be under no illusion.
4. I ask myself is there any rezoning planned to the front or rear of your 'grand house' in Greystones ? Just wondering ...................

Muff Richardson

Prof252 wrote: »

You're missing the point Muff.

Let me spell it out for you and all those who do not live in the exact vicinity or who fail to appreciate the preservation of this island's beauty.

1. It is an outstanding area of natural beauty and heritage. That means we leave it to remain so. We be very 'me fein' about that one.
2. Zoning for new housing and amenities are to be located and looked for more wisely and sensitively by the counsellors, planners etc. etc. That's their job. That's what they're paid for. Read that again: Wise. Sensitive. Respectable traits one would expect for a country that is borrowing billions to pay for itself.
3. What more 'facts' do you require?
Rezoning = development + pollution between the Glen of the Downs and Blackberry Lane. Be under no illusion.
4. I ask myself is there any rezoning planned to the front or rear of your 'grand house' in Greystones ? Just wondering ...................

I don't know what you've spelt out in the debate but 1-3 there just falls into what I said before about it just being a vested interest on the preservation of "your" village exactly as it is, again, let me spell this out, why should Delgany escape urban sprawl development when other villages with similar characteristics have not? I'm still waiting for a decent argument. As for the pollution, you have absolutely no idea that this will happen, your just making predictions here without any facts. Facts really help when putting an argument forth so can we stick to them? I have no idea that the area will not be polluted in some way as a result of development, which is why I am not saying it won't happen either but at least stick to what we know for sure. I totally agree with Maudi that there is cause for speculation or concern for some people because of what's happened in the past but let's wait and see what exactly is being developed before flat out rejecting the project.

as for 4, I live about 15 minutes walk from Delgany village, I would say that qualifies as being in the exact vicinty, from the plans the rezoning would take place in the rear of my house, I'd say I have as much reason to worry or right to say if this should go ahead as any of you. As I mentioned earlier this isn't the first time this has happened to me and my local area and I accepted it as a part of life with society changing and the surrounding landscape with it.

Cheeky Chops

The same crooks are in charge. That is why we do not trust this development.

Prof252

Wait and see what Muff? They haven't disclosed any more. That's the point.

No one is invited to the counsellors meeting on Monday, but when they rezone it Muff I hope you enjoy your walk/hike around there.

Maudi

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

The same crooks are in charge. That is why we do not trust this development.

Cheeky chops is right..the county manager ...jesus guys do some reseach on this guy and ye will see what we is on about.its all out there ...

Maudi

Muff Richardson wrote: »

I don't know what you've spelt out in the debate but 1-3 there just falls into what I said before about it just being a vested interest on the preservation of "your" village exactly as it is, again, let me spell this out, why should Delgany escape urban sprawl development when other villages with similar characteristics have not? I'm still waiting for a decent argument. As for the pollution, you have absolutely no idea that this will happen, your just making predictions here without any facts. Facts really help when putting an argument forth so can we stick to them? I have no idea that the area will not be polluted in some way as a result of development, which is why I am not saying it won't happen either but at least stick to what we know for sure. I totally agree with Maudi that there is cause for speculation or concern for some people because of what's happened in the past but let's wait and see what exactly is being developed before flat out rejecting the project.

as for 4, I live about 15 minutes walk from Delgany village, I would say that qualifies as being in the exact vicinty, from the plans the rezoning would take place in the rear of my house, I'd say I have as much reason to worry or right to say if this should go ahead as any of you. As I mentioned earlier this isn't the first time this has happened to me and my local area and I accepted it as a part of life with society changing and the surrounding landscape with it.

Why should delgany escape "urban sprawl"...your words muff.

Muff Richardson

Maudi wrote: »

Why should delgany escape "urban sprawl"...your words muff.

huh? yes they are my words. and?

Annasopra

Prof252 wrote: »

Wait and see what Muff? They haven't disclosed any more. That's the point.

No one is invited to the counsellors meeting on Monday, but when they rezone it Muff I hope you enjoy your walk/hike around there.

You can go and sit in on the council meeting by the way. It's public.

Wicklow Will

Hey Mango, that's good to know. Thanks for that. I tried to find out what time the meeting is at on Monday but didn't get a reply from the Council or the Councillors I contacted. You don't happen to know what time the meetings are held at do you? From Wicklow CoCo website they seem to vary.

Wicklow Will

Muff - you're a great man for asking for "facts" and trying to gloss over the disastrous monstrosities perpetrated on towns and villages during the "dark ages" (seeing as how you want us to get away from referring to the "celtic tiger" I'll refer to it as that from now on - is that any better?) And yes, you are right these developments happened all over Ireland not just in Greystones or Delgany - should I take it that the fact that it happened across the island thereby makes it 1) OK and 2) acceptable for developers to continue to perpetuate this folly again as though no lessons were to be learnt from the past? Surely this is what hindsight was given to us for - to LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES!? Who was it who said "a smart man makes a mistake, learns from it but a wise man finds a smart man and learns from him how to avoid the mistake altogether"?

On another point, it could appear that you have some axe to grind with dear old Delgany? Would I be right? For it would be a very callous and sadly vitriolic individual who would - cheerfully and without a second thought - willingly and willfully wish upon such a place and its people the kind of fate, you do, on Delgany and its residents! It seems to me you advance the proposition of "two wrongs making a right" as the criteria by which we should plan our towns and villages. Most enlightened.

To close, I am intrigued by an individual who is so dedicated to the factual and desirous of his foils that they deal only in facts, that you would first claim to live in a "grand" house in Greystones and yet further on state that this rezoned land is as good as your own back garden and to be only a 15 minute walk from it? To me - and I'm a relatively fast walker of average leg length, these two sets of what you advance as "facts" don't stack up!

Enough of this verbal sword play - I suspect you of trying to waste the time and energy of those of us intent on the serious business of trying to do something worthwhile and of trying to make us your play things to while away your idle hours. Be done with it sir, and go find other baubles to trifle with and amuse yourself. I would also urge others here to conserve their energy and refrain from giving fuel to your fire!

Maudi

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Muff - you're a great man for asking for "facts" and trying to gloss over the disastrous monstrosities perpetrated on towns and villages during the "dark ages" (seeing as how you want us to get away from referring to the "celtic tiger" I'll refer to it as that from now on - is that any better?) And yes, you are right these developments happened all over Ireland not just in Greystones or Delgany - should I take it that the fact that it happened across the island thereby makes it 1) OK and 2) acceptable for developers to continue to perpetuate this folly again as though no lessons were to be learnt from the past? Surely this is what hindsight was given to us for - to LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES!? Who was it who said "a smart man makes a mistake, learns from it but a wise man finds a smart man and learns from him how to avoid the mistake altogether"?

On another point, it could appear that you have some axe to grind with dear old Delgany? Would I be right? For it would be a very callous and sadly vitriolic individual who would - cheerfully and without a second thought - willingly and willfully wish upon such a place and its people the kind of fate, you do, on Delgany and its residents! It seems to me you advance the proposition of "two wrongs making a right" as the criteria by which we should plan our towns and villages. Most enlightened.

To close, I am intrigued by an individual who is so dedicated to the factual and desirous of his foils that they deal only in facts, that you would first claim to live in a "grand" house in Greystones and yet further on state that this rezoned land is as good as your own back garden and to be only a 15 minute walk from it? To me - and I'm a relatively fast walker of average leg length, these two sets of what you advance as "facts" don't stack up!

Enough of this verbal sword play - I suspect you of trying to waste the time and energy of those of us intent on the serious business of trying to do something worthwhile and of trying to make us your play things to while away your idle hours. Be done with it sir, and go find other baubles to trifle with and amuse yourself. I would also urge others here to conserve their energy and refrain from giving fuel to your fire!

Excellently put..so sort of like a boycott?

Wicklow Will

Maudi wrote: »

Excellently put..so sort of like a boycott?

Well I'm just saying not to get drawn into a circular argument that will exasperate one and has no prospect of a worthwhile conclusion.

Muff Richardson

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Muff - you're a great man for asking for "facts" and trying to gloss over the disastrous monstrosities perpetrated on towns and villages during the "dark ages" (seeing as how you want us to get away from referring to the "celtic tiger" I'll refer to it as that from now on - is that any better?) And yes, you are right these developments happened all over Ireland not just in Greystones or Delgany - should I take it that the fact that it happened across the island thereby makes it 1) OK and 2) acceptable for developers to continue to perpetuate this folly again as though no lessons were to be learnt from the past? Surely this is what hindsight was given to us for - to LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES!? Who was it who said "a smart man makes a mistake, learns from it but a wise man finds a smart man and learns from him how to avoid the mistake altogether"?

bravo...another pointless tirade of irrelevant waffle which does nothing to support your argument against any kind of development in Delgany.

i've glossed over nothing and said several times that those times were pure madness. as i said that was then and this is now, does this mean no more development should take place anywhere or anytime in Ireland? Or just not in your precious Delgany which is the impression I am getting over and over.

You do realise that the area of outstanding natural beauty you referred to would be even more outstandingly beautiful if the house you are in wasn't built there in the first place? Why would development then be ok to house its present residents but never again anywhere else in the area?

Wicklow Will wrote: »

On another point, it could appear that you have some axe to grind with dear old Delgany? Would I be right? For it would be a very callous and sadly vitriolic individual who would - cheerfully and without a second thought - willingly and willfully wish upon such a place and its people the kind of fate, you do, on Delgany and its residents! It seems to me you advance the proposition of "two wrongs making a right" as the criteria by which we should plan our towns and villages. Most enlightened.

This is just plain stupid talk, I already said I have a great fondness for the entire area and frequent it regularly both in terms of the landscape and the amenities it offers. I've grown particularly fond of Romany Stone, lovely staff, great coffee and the bakery has the best bread in either Greystones or Delgany. I am actually somewhat confused about how somebody could have some axe to grind with a small village, its as much mine as it is yours although I do not live specifically in it. Don't try and open a them and us can of worms because that's pretty narrow minded and once again, it is not your Delgany, it is ours.

Wicklow Will wrote: »

To close, I am intrigued by an individual who is so dedicated to the factual and desirous of his foils that they deal only in facts, that you would first claim to live in a "grand" house in Greystones and yet further on state that this rezoned land is as good as your own back garden and to be only a 15 minute walk from it? To me - and I'm a relatively fast walker of average leg length, these two sets of what you advance as "facts" don't stack up!

Is this seriously the best defence you can come up with Miss Marple? a pointless and irrelevant attack on my integrity doubting my claims on where I live? I walk the dogs to Delgany and beyond regularly, it takes me 15 minutes to reach Delgany village. PM me and we can organise a stroll some day if you like and I'll allow you to humour yourself with a stopwatch...do yourself a favour and read over what you've written before pressing submit, this was just pathetic.

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Enough of this verbal sword play - I suspect you of trying to waste the time and energy of those of us intent on the serious business of trying to do something worthwhile and of trying to make us your play things to while away your idle hours. Be done with it sir, and go find other baubles to trifle with and amuse yourself. I would also urge others here to conserve their energy and refrain from giving fuel to your fire!

this is a discussion forum where people are entitled to discuss and express opinion, I suggest you try and organise some kind of local meeting for people opposed to the plans (that haven't been disclosed) and then you can start the merry bandwagon of protesters with no idea what exactly you are protesting against and for what reasons.

Until then, I will post and contribute to whatever forum I see fit and you have absolutely no right to tell anyone not to do so just because they don't share your opinion. You strike me as somebody who is not used to being spoken back to or disagreed with...that's something you need to work on.

Maudi wrote: »

Excellently put..so sort of like a boycott?

this was hilarious...how was your first day back at school Maudi? Get much homework for the weekend?

If you pair are what the developers are up against in terms of a campaign against their plans I'd say to anyone don't waste time and apply for that mortgage sooner rather than later, they'll be available in Delgany in no time.

Annasopra

folks - keep it civil - no personalised remarks

Annasopra

Well done

http://www.irishtimes.com/delgany-rezoning-proposal-deleted-from-local-area-plan-1.1513975

Fiachra2

Great outcome. (and a good row as well!:)

Wicklow Will

Thank you to all who signed our petition. This is what being a community and the "community spirit" is about. We also want to extend our gratitude, on this occasion, to our elected representatives who saw sense and opposed the imposition of such plans upon Delgany and its residents.

I appreciate the congratulations from some of you on here too and just to say, I never wanted a good 'row' I didn't set out with that in mind and to be honest could have done without it. However, if people adopt and portray a deliberately intransigent position and superior tone then one will sometimes have to fight fire with fire. Notwithstanding this, I and those involved in the opposition campaign are delighted with the outcome and appreciate the support of all concerned and fora such as Boards.ie and Petitions online.

Annasopra

A row in the Council or on here?

Fiachra2

On here.

I doubt there was any row in the council. Issues like that are usually decided well in advance.