Who would you term as 'Sleeping Giant' Clubs?

Zebra3

grenache wrote: »

A city of 300k isn't big enough for two professional clubs.

It obviously is.

dundalkfc10

jmayo wrote: »

I would definitely take Parma out of there since they only arrived in the 90s due to the money of Parmalat and once they hit the rocks the club went downhill and became a feeder club of the likes of Juve.

Similarly with Notts Forest who only won two FA cups in the all the years upto Cloughie taking over and spent most of their years in the old second division.

Blackburn Rovers have done a hell of a lot of sleeping in their history and are awaiting another Jack Walker to wake them up.

Former giants who have slipped to me are Liverpool, Ajax who dominated both their leagues and Europe for number of years.

Really?
When Blackburn were in the Premiership they were the smallest town to play in it for many years, and havnt got much of a catchment area considering Burnley, Preston, Bolton, Utd, Liverpool are all within an hour of the town.

Id say they punched above their weight because of Jack Walkers money and great management of the club up untill they sold to the Venkys

Galway Utd.

In such a deep sleep it has missed 2 seasons

grenache

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I'm not sure quite what that has to do with what I said.

You said the two were the same. I pointed out how we weren't.

grenache

Zebra3 wrote: »

It obviously is.

Not big enough for two successful clubs.

Seaneh

Athlone Town.


We drew with Milan!

I am pie

Zebra3 wrote: »

It obviously is.

Yes true, but it hardly qualifies one of the teams as sleeping giants when there are so many other teams in and around the catchment area. Forest have a great history and a good stadium but there is nothing to suggest that they are sleeping giants. I would say they are a natural bottom half of the prem, top half of the championship team and not much beyond that.

More like an underachieving quite tall person than a sleeping giant.

Pepe LeFrits

grenache wrote: »

You said the two were the same. I pointed out how we weren't.

No, I implied there were similarities. Two traditionally unfashionable teams that are perceived to be bigger than they are amongst fans of certain age groups due to a brief golden age during or just before those groups' childhoods. The specifics of how they came about their success are irrelevant.

grenache

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

No, I implied there were similarities. Two traditionally unfashionable teams that are perceived to be bigger than they are amongst fans of certain age groups due to a brief golden age during or just before those groups' childhoods. The specifics of how they came about their success are irrelevant.

Ok. I didn't see that implement in your first post.

Dont be at yourself

Deportivo. The Spanish Leeds.

carlop

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Deportivo. The Spanish Leeds.

To be fair though Depor weren't a particularly big club at all prior to the 1990s.

kksaints

Gothenburg from Sweden would be one. Grasshoppers are another team I remember from a few years ago.

I am pie

carlop wrote: »

To be fair though Depor weren't a particularly big club at all prior to the 1990s.

Galicia is a pretty big region, they have a large fanbase at least.

I am pie

kksaints wrote: »

Gothenburg from Sweden would be one. Grasshoppers are another team I remember from a few years ago.

Grasshoppers? Played champs league qualifiers this year and won the swiss cup too..hardly sleeping, hardly giants. Biggest club in Zurich I suppose. Giant?

messinkiapina

dd972 wrote: »

If Villa were taken over Man City style they'd definitely become a big player

If Dagenham and Redbridge were taken over City/Chelsea style they'd be a big player.

major bill

People debating Forest inclusion in this thread yet Malmo a club from a similar sized city that finished runners up in a european cup gets a mention.

Forest are sleeping giants, a club with huge potential that I would love to see back in the top division.

carlop

I am pie wrote: »

Galicia is a pretty big region, they have a large fanbase at least.

The population of Coruna is 250,000, Vigo is the biggest city in Galicia. They have a large fanbase now because a lot of people started supporting them when they began to challenge in the 1990s. Galicians are also far more likely to support one of their own teams rather than Barca or Madrid compared to somebody from Castilla or Andalucia.

I guess they could now be referred to as a sleeping giant, but a very young giant.

Alpha Dog 1

Celtic are the biggest sleeping giants.

Oat23

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Celtic are the biggest sleeping giants.

Being held back by playing in a sh*te league isn't the same thing as being a sleeping giant.

brianregan09

Arsenal are fast becoming one

tayto lover

Surprised nobody has mentioned Doncaster Rovers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doncaster_Rovers_F.C.

I am pie

major bill wrote: »

People debating Forest inclusion in this thread yet Malmo a club from a similar sized city that finished runners up in a european cup gets a mention.

Forest are sleeping giants, a club with huge potential that I would love to see back in the top division.

OK Bill, I'll bite.

I included Malmo, but you're right, they aren't really sleeping giants I guess. It is not correct however to say that Forest are sleeping giants, they just are not.

They don't have the catchment area, the stadium (30k, small in prem terms) or the history (they had a brief period of over achievement with Clough) to be considered sleeping giants. East midlands has lots of clubs in and around them. Are Coventry sleeping giants too? They have 300k+ population with a more modern stadium (which they cannot play in right now!) and are the only club in coventry. The won an FA cup once, the must be sleeping giants right?

What about Leicester...not too far away? Population of almost 500k..800k in the urban area, slightly bigger stadium (32k) and the only team in Leicester...are the sleeping giants too?

No, clearly not and neither are Forest just because they overachieved for a brief period in their history.

dan1895

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Rip van Winkle style

Yer man who plays for Norwich?

major bill

I am pie wrote: »

OK Bill, I'll bite.

I included Malmo, but you're right, they aren't really sleeping giants I guess. It is not correct however to say that Forest are sleeping giants, they just are not.

They don't have the catchment area, the stadium (30k, small in prem terms) or the history (they had a brief period of over achievement with Clough) to be considered sleeping giants. East midlands has lots of clubs in and around them. Are Coventry sleeping giants too? They have 300k+ population with a more modern stadium (which they cannot play in right now!) and are the only club in coventry. The won an FA cup once, the must be sleeping giants right?

What about Leicester...not too far away? Population of almost 500k..800k in the urban area, slightly bigger stadium (32k) and the only team in Leicester...are the sleeping giants too?

No, clearly not and neither are Forest just because they overachieved for a brief period in their history.

Leicester and Coventry never won two European cups though nor have most English clubs and to say it was an Over achievement is a bit unfair,

Looking into sizes of cities and catchment areas are pointless...Forest have been there and were once a major side in European football and to me this is what defines a footballing giant.

grohlisagod

Nantes. One of the most successful French clubs. Nothing of note from them for over a decade.

CastingCouch

Valencia.

tayto lover

Peter Crouch.

Oscorp

Napoli were up until very recently.

Great to see them make so much progress in the last half-decade or so

uch

Galway United

IvySlayer

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Deportivo. The Spanish Leeds.

I do remember them stuffing Utd home and away in the Champions League group stage then we returned the favour in the knock outs :pac:

764dak

IvySlayer wrote: »

I do remember them stuffing Utd home and away in the Champions League group stage then we returned the favour in the knock outs :pac:

The weird thing is those were the only two matches Deportivo won in that group.

The Backwards Man

Luton Town.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/219353-luton-town-the-most-exciting-club-to-support-in-england

grenache

I am pie wrote: »

OK Bill, I'll bite.

I included Malmo, but you're right, they aren't really sleeping giants I guess. It is not correct however to say that Forest are sleeping giants, they just are not.

They don't have the catchment area, the stadium (30k, small in prem terms) or the history (they had a brief period of over achievement with Clough) to be considered sleeping giants. East midlands has lots of clubs in and around them. Are Coventry sleeping giants too? They have 300k+ population with a more modern stadium (which they cannot play in right now!) and are the only club in coventry. The won an FA cup once, the must be sleeping giants right?

What about Leicester...not too far away? Population of almost 500k..800k in the urban area, slightly bigger stadium (32k) and the only team in Leicester...are the sleeping giants too?

No, clearly not and neither are Forest just because they overachieved for a brief period in their history.

I agree with you that Forest are not a "sleeping giant", like Aston Villa or Leeds per se, rather a relatively big club who have underachieved.

However you are clearly incorrect in what you say in the highlighted bit. The East Midlands is a very large area stretching from Derbyshire over to Lincolnshire and down to Northants, encompassing 4.5 million people. Leicester may be the largest city in the region, but it's urban area is only 508k and not 800k as you quoted. Nottingham Urban Area is actually the largest urban conurbation, with 730,000. I would think that is more than a big enough catchment area for Forest. On the contrary to what you said, I think it's a very wide base from which to draw fans, certainly far less congested and with less competition than say the North West or London regions. There are only 3 big clubs in the whole of the East Mids - Derby, Leicester and the afore-mentioned Forest (Coventry are technically West Mids). And all of them have many fans throughout the region and beyond.

It's disingenuous to say Forest had a "brief period" of success under Clough- we were a top 5 team for over 2 decades under him, and his successor Frank Clark. We also had a couple of high finishes under Johnny Carey in the 60s, being runners up to Man Utd in '67. The stadium capacity of 30k would also be about average for Premier League, being higher than that of 8 current Premier League stadia.

And you surely cannot compare Forest to Coventry? We have won 10 major trophies, they have amassed 1. Coventry have rarely troubled the top ten positions in the Premier League or old First Division. Leicester have won relatively little in comparison too, with only 4 trophies in 130 years. Therefore I don't think anybody could successfully assert that either club was a "sleeping giant" of any sort.

101001

No love for red star belgrade. They'll be back one day.

CantGetNoSleep

grohlisagod wrote: »

Nantes. One of the most successful French clubs. Nothing of note from them for over a decade.

Nantes are not doing too bad this year after a couple of seasons, thought I was their only fan in Ireland!

- bo -

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Nantes are not doing too bad this year after a couple of seasons, thought I was their only fan in Ireland!

Just saw this - you're not Went over to catch the Nantes-Monaco match a few weeks ago. Third time at the Beaujoire, I've family from an hour away and support them as my Dad did. Tune in to streams of the majority of games too - will be watching the Reims match later - good to see someone else with an interest!