Irish Chess Union AGM 2013

Chess_Coach

We will see the minutes at the ICU web site soon . I was asking simple question on what I never got the answer .Was any money lodged at Personal account? No answer given still .

You did not mention as well concern from the LCU members . The Gentlemen asked how that ICU have only 819 members when LCU have 720 playing the leagues and no answer was given as well . So many questions so little answers .

Chess_Coach

https://www.facebook.com/groups/306657479415939/

Member of the Irish Chess Group - Facebook Exicu Pro

Vocal I have been but all in vain. I have had to defer to the real politic of the situation with regards the running of the Irish ch. This year has seen Rory come on to the ICU committee to be ICU tournament director, soon after a friend of his came on to the committee as the secretary. So then this same Secretary expressed an interest in running the Irish ch and in conjunction with Rory being arbiter they came up with a package for the Irish which included UL bringing in 4k to the project, but with 2k declared as having to be spent on security. So the event was given to Kevin and ULCC on the basis of this whole package and it was not the case that the ICU simply hand over the 5k plus 2k from Gary O Grady and then let Kevin and ULCC goahead and do as they wish.

Continues at the link above.

Mod edit - don't quote full articles please. An intro and a link is sufficient. cdeb.

cdeb

Chess_Coach wrote: »

I was asking simple question on what I never got the answer .Was any money lodged at Personal account? No answer given still .

Have you any reason to suspect that it was? Fairly serious accusation to be making without any proof, and typical of the attitude in certain elements of the ICU.

Chess_Coach wrote: »

The Gentlemen asked how that ICU have only 819 members when LCU have 720 playing the leagues and no answer was given as well . So many questions so little answers .

The ICU had 890 members, not 819.

The "gentleman", as you say, picked an average membership rate of E30 without any back-up whatsoever, and extrapolated from there. That's shaky from the start.

It's an issue the ICU acknowledged it should clarify - in terms of detailing membership bands - but to extrapolate serious issues from there is a couple of steps beyond what's reasonable, given the info to hand.

The ExICU-PRO facebook account is Colm Daly, again off ranting and causing trouble. I think we can safely ignore anything that comes from him. And once again, UL Chess Club is not answerable for its (UL Chess Club's) activities to the ICU at the ICU AGM.

Edit - I see on the facebook page that the issue seems to have been that the gentleman was double-counting players who played in more than one league. So the 720 figure was nonsense. My calculations given 609 unique players in the Leinster leagues (give or take a couple as I've deleted some instances of different players with the same name)

I trust the point will be rescinded now by those shouting about it?

phnompenhchess

To reiterate what I said elsewhere - The member from Leinster who asked this question regarding LCU players was WRONG. He is correct that there are 701 players in the top 5 leagues which are rated. What he did not take account of was the 184 players who play in more than one league (based on a duplicate name exercise I have just done so it is probably a few lower than this). That leaves approximately 517 unique players in the Leinster Leagues which tallies pretty well with an overall ICU membership figure of 819. The amount of misinformation and distortions of fact being fired at the ICU leadership team at present is very disheartening.

cdeb

For the record, because I'm sure someone will bring it up, the 517 above is just divisions 1 to 5; my 609 figure includes the Bodley.

phnompenhchess

cdeb wrote: »

For the record, because I'm sure someone will bring it up, the 517 above is just divisions 1 to 5; my 609 figure includes the Bodley.

I thought that wasn't rated so therefore didn't have the LCU compulsion to be an ICU member but I am not sure about it.

The chance of those shouting about this complete non-issue withdrawing their scurrilous accusations are virtually zero in my experience.

cdeb

Bodley was rated.

There was a thought that it wasn't going to be, but Mark Orr pulled a quickie and it was ok.

phnompenhchess

cdeb wrote: »

Bodley was rated.

There was a thought that it wasn't going to be, but Mark Orr pulled a quickie and it was ok.

Fair enough. That will add a few if they were compelled to be members but not such that the entire premise for the 700 figure is wrong.

cdeb

It brings the figure up to 609 (as per my post) - still way short of the 720.

Given the E30/head figure at the start was pulled from thin air as well, there's no substance to the concerns at all.

Chess_Coach - would you acknowledge that this concern is refuted and groundless?

Ciaran

cdeb wrote: »

It brings the figure up to 609 (as per my post) - still way short of the 720.

Given the E30/head figure at the start was pulled from thin air as well, there's no substance to the concerns at all.

Chess_Coach - would you acknowledge that this concern is refuted and groundless?

I'm not sure what the concern was exactly but 68% of ICU members playing in the Leinster leagues sounds like a lot. It's probably slightly inflated by people having to sign up after playing 1 or 2 games but still. Add in the Munster leagues and there must be very few players not involved in leagues.

cdeb

I think Gerry Graham gave the figures for those playing Munster leagues as about 120. So that'd be 730 of 890 playing in the Munster or Leinster leagues. Ulster would be minimal, and Connacht is small enough too.

It wouldn't surprise me if most players played with a league team. The only other option really is playing weekenders, and most of those you'd see at weekenders you'd recognise from a club.

Many of the bottom section in particular would probably never register with the ICU; they'd be new members (particularly juniors) who either don't know about ICU registration and ratings, or who don't take the game that seriously.

Ciaran

cdeb wrote: »

I think Gerry Graham gave the figures for those playing Munster leagues as about 120. So that'd be 730 of 890 playing in the Munster or Leinster leagues. Ulster would be minimal, and Connacht is small enough too.

It wouldn't surprise me if most players played with a league team. The only other option really is playing weekenders, and most of those you'd see at weekenders you'd recognise from a club.

Many of the bottom section in particular would probably never register with the ICU; they'd be new members (particularly juniors) who either don't know about ICU registration and ratings, or who don't take the game that seriously.

I was over-estimating the size of the Munster league it seems. Maybe a proper Connacht league would push up subscriptions there? It might relieve up of some of the more awkward recent additions to the Leinster league too!

Aren't players required to register to play in tournaments? Are the ICU missing out on decent money from people not registering?

cdeb

Ciaran wrote: »

Aren't players required to register to play in tournaments?

Nope. There was a suggestion a few years back that non-ICU members who entered tournaments should either be not allowed partake until they paid their fees, or have to pay their fees from any prize money won. The main sticking point was people paying through their clubs and having slow treasurers.

An obvious example there is John Alfred, who was explicitly barred from a vote at the AGM because he's not a member (though I don't know if anyone was actually checking to see if he voted in the end! None of the votes were close enough for it to matter though). You can see that he wasn't a member last year on the ICU site, but the ratings site shows that he played a few tournaments (including the Munster leagues actually)

He has actually paid up for this year already.

Yreval

A quick word on Ulster: since 2005, the UCU has not been affiliated to the ICU, meaning that there is no compulsion to join the ICU to play in UCU events.* Looking through the ICU's membership list, I count 11 Ulster players.

I don't think this is the exact number, but the UCU's rating list shows 124 currently active members. If I had more time right now I'd check how many players took part in last season's league. (e: it's 110)

* FWIW, when I was entering Bunratty this year I asked if I, as an Ulster player, needed to purchase an ICU membership to play - I was told that my UCU membership was sufficient.

Ballynafeigh Chess

Hi YrevaI,

The courtesy is repaid when ICU members wish to pIay in UCU tournaments, they can enter any without having to register as UCU members, just pay the entry fee.

However sometimes as a matter of generosity we encourage them to join the UCU because the membership is cheaper than the tournament entry and the UCU give your first tournament free with your membership.

Women and anyone under 18 who join as members £10 get free entry into every UCU run tournament for the whoIe year

Sparks

Ballynafeigh Chess wrote: »

However sometimes as a matter of generosity we encourage them to join the UCU because the membership is cheaper than the tournament entry and the UCU give your first tournament free with your membership.

Someone had their thinking caps on

Ciaran

cdeb wrote: »

Nope. There was a suggestion a few years back that non-ICU members who entered tournaments should either be not allowed partake until they paid their fees, or have to pay their fees from any prize money won. The main sticking point was people paying through their clubs and having slow treasurers.

The Galway and Kilkenny tournaments say that you do.

All entrants resident in Ireland have to be a member of the Irish Chess Union

All Irish entrants must be registered current members of the I.C.U.

http://www.galwaychess.com/galway-chess-congress-2013/
http://icu.ie/events/forms/568.pdf (PDF)

The ICU site also lists "the right to participate in ICU affiliated tournaments" as a benefit of joining which would indicate that not joining would bar you from playing in tournaments.

cdeb

Wasn't aware of that; thanks.

I think in practical terms, though, there's little they can do about it. Whereas in the leagues, you have the option of penalising the club.

Ciaran

cdeb wrote: »

I think in practical terms, though, there's little they can do about it. Whereas in the leagues, you have the option of penalising the club.

Agreed, it's obviously not being strictly enforced. I wonder how much money the ICU is missing out on from it though.

As an aside, I assume this is what the motion at the AGM about a reduced membership fee for someone to play one tournament was for.

cdeb

Yeah, probably. Though if the main fee is being ignored, you'd imagine the reduced fee would be ignored too.

I actually proposed a similar motion at the LCU AGM - play only one league game and you're exempt from having to pay your ICU fees. It was voted our because "it's a slippery slope". While I can see the benefit, I do agree overall that it's not the way to go, strangely.

Ciaran

I'd tend to agree. Maybe this is something that the membership officer should be looking at given that online renewals have removed a good bit of the workload.