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Rolf Harris charged with multiple nonce crimes..

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    #182
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    "Historical sexual offences", sounds like there should be a statue to commemorate them :pac:


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    #183
    Sir_Badshot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 166 ✭✭Sir_Badshot


    mike65 wrote: »
    Its Paul Gambaiccini!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24779908


    Lol, he does 'look' like one in the BBC pic.

    OK, who is next from my childhood- Shep from Blue Peter??


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    #184
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Just resding the bbc link there. A spokeswoman for a human rights group and an mp want anyone arrested or charged with sex crimes to be named. What about the rights of the accused?

    Presumably theyd be happy to have their names and faces all over the papers with headlines about how theyve been arrested for abusing kids of they knew theyd been falsely accused.

    Think it's somewhat complex tbh while I sympathise with the falsely accused. If names aren't released you run into the issue that many victims won't come forward who would have if the name was revealed.


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    #185
    tomglsn
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭tomglsn


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    I get the impression that noel edmonds would shun sexual relations with anyone that wasn't noel edmonds.

    And Mr Blobby!


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    #186
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    I have to admit that I loved Rolf's shows when I was younger. And animal hospital for that matter. I wouldn't trust my kids to anyone tbh. Lucky I'm not religious.


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    #187
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    dd972 wrote: »
    Quite funny that David Icke who bangs on about this stuff was considered nuts 20 years ago and people like Stewart Hall and Jimmy Saville were UK national treasures while nowadays they're pariahs and Icke who sells out theaters is regarded as more and more sane all the time :pac:
    Signal to noise ratio


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    #188
    DundalkDuffman
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭DundalkDuffman


    Lucky Chris Feather passed away years ago. He'd have come in for some ruddy publicity as well. He used to flirt with Lynn all the time


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    #189
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    I just hope that Dustin isn't going to be brought over the coals in 20 years time for being a nonce. Much as I hate the barsteward


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    #190
    Jonny Blaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 753 ✭✭✭Jonny Blaze


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    I get the impression that noel edmonds would shun sexual relations with anyone that wasn't noel edmonds.

    Or Mr. Blobby...


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    #191
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Sir_Badshot wrote: »
    Lol, he does 'look' like one in the BBC pic.

    OK, who is next from my childhood- Shep from Blue Peter??

    I'm not sure how one can tell from appearances.


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    #192
    ads20101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ads20101


    Jonny Blaze wrote: »
    Or Mr. Blobby...

    My mind is now scarred.

    That will never go away.

    Damn it.....


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    #193
    Frankie Lee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭Frankie Lee


    Eoin McLove too I've heard.


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    #194
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    WilyCoyote wrote: »
    I just hope that Dustin isn't going to be brought over the coals in 20 years time for being a nonce. Much as I hate the barsteward


    I often wondered why Bosco had such a squeaky voice


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    #195
    ALiasEX
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ALiasEX


    Sunglasses Ron wrote: »
    I guess his most ardent fans would refuse to believe he had done it. Like most Michael Jackson fans convince themselves that he was mad but not bad and all charges were a stitch up.

    In truth being convicted of sex crimes from the past seems to demand very little real evidence compared to other crimes. There is a load of circumstantial evidence placing Larry Murphy within the general area of at least three abductions but it is not enough for a trial., despite the fact it would be one very big coincidence if someone else had carried them out. There were numerous robberies that the likes of The Monk and The General were blatantly behind, but not enough actual proof to lay a charge. Yet merely being able to somewhat prove that Harris met an accuser 30 years ago is enough grounds for a prosecution.
    The difference is Michael Jackson was found not guilty.


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    #196
    Sir Bernard Woolley
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Sir Bernard Woolley


    They need to keep looking in Whitehall. The BBC has been shaken bare at this stage.


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    #197
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Sir Bernard Woolley wrote: »
    They need to keep looking in Whitehall. The BBC has been shaken bare at this stage.

    A minority of mostly high profile presenters. There are thousands, tens of thousands of decent people who have worked in the BBC over the decades.


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    #198
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    mod:

    Posts with speculation removed. Folks lets err on the side of caution with regard to throwing accusations around.


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    #199
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    MadYaker wrote: »
    I see your point, but I really don't think Noel Edmonds reads boards.ie. Even if he did I doubt he'd get all riled up and threaten to sue anyone. Not worth getting in a fuss over it tbh.

    It wouldn't be the first time.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/mar/28/dailymail.pressandpublishing


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    #200
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    I have no idea if Harris or Roache or the other DJ committed any criminal acts.

    What bothers me is how on earth justice can be done so many years later ? What actual 'evidence' can be produced to prove beyond a reasonable doubt ? On what basis can a jury deliver justice ? The 'word' of accusers ???

    I see all the signs of a money making, attention seeking piling in in the hopes of getting a 'compensation' bonanza built on an orgy of an easy target male celeb manhunt.


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    #201
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Piliger wrote: »
    I have no idea if Harris or Roache or the other DJ committed any criminal acts.

    What bothers me is how on earth justice can be done so many years later ? What actual 'evidence' can be produced to prove beyond a reasonable doubt ? On what basis can a jury deliver justice ? The 'word' of accusers ???

    I see all the signs of a money making, attention seeking piling in in the hopes of getting a 'compensation' bonanza built on an orgy of an easy target male celeb manhunt.

    Bit of a coincidence that so many claims would surface against a tiny handful of individuals though. And the police are no fools when it comes to this stuff. This is a public prosecution and not a civil case.. for it to get as far as this the CPS would have had to build quite a substantial case against the men, and have reasonable suspicion that the claims made against them were true.


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    #202
    Sunglasses Ron
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭Sunglasses Ron


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Bit of a coincidence that so many claims would surface against a tiny handful of individuals though. And the police are no fools when it comes to this stuff. This is a public prosecution and not a civil case.. for it to get as far as this the CPS would have had to build quite a substantial case against the men, and have reasonable suspicion that the claims made against them were true.

    Hardly. As the trial progressed it became clearer by the day that the charges against Kev from Corrie were nonsense, if I recall correctly it took the jury sod all time to acquit him with the evidence they were given.

    I have wondered, there is a figure of something like 500 people quoted as having been victims of Jimmy Savile. What is the confirmation criteria they have for it? Did he have some sort of identifying mole or scar on his nether regions that only those who had actually been abused would have seen? It is impossible that in a case like this, not one crank in the whole of the UK would have fabricated an allegation for a pay out or for attention, but I haven't seen any sort of statement in the way of "of 600 cases investigated, 70 were discounted due to a lack of evidence". Are they really just taking every accusers word for it? Because to me the figure of 500 victims just seems too high, for all those people to have kept shut about it for so long.


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    #203
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Sunglasses Ron wrote: »
    Hardly. As the trial progressed it became clearer by the day that the charges against Kev from Corrie were nonsense, if I recall correctly it took the jury sod all time to acquit him with the evidence they were given.

    Showing that the system works?

    And there was one complaint against him, Harris and Mike Baldwin or whatever his name is have numerous from different people and apparently there's evidence other than that of word of mouth and hearsay.

    Doesn't mean they're guilty, or that any of the claims are true. But why doubt it before even the jury is shown the evidence? If the evidence is weak then the court will view it accordingly, I'm sure.


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    #204
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #205
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No argument there. Tbh, details of cases such as this shouldn't be made public unless there's a guilty verdict. But you can't just ignore individual claims and assume them to be false from the get go. That would extremely detrimental for those with genuine complaints to make against people. Making false claims is equally detrimental and should treated as a very serious crime in itself.


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    #206
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    My name is URL wrote: »
    But why doubt it before even the jury is shown the evidence?

    Because you should always doubt it until you see some evidence! Otherwise any of us can make any sort of mad claim about anything and just say "Sure you'll get the evidence later, but for now you should believe it".

    Belief should never be the default position. At least when it comes to justice or science.


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    #207
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Bit of a coincidence that so many claims would surface against a tiny handful of individuals though. And the police are no fools when it comes to this stuff. This is a public prosecution and not a civil case.. for it to get as far as this the CPS would have had to build quite a substantial case against the men, and have reasonable suspicion that the claims made against them were true.
    I would suggest that that is a highly dubious assumption. We have seen MANY cases taken by the DPP that have been dismissed in short shrift by juries.

    However I am not saying that it is impossible ! They may have strong actual evidence ! But there is no sign of it in all the time since the announcement of the prosecution and usually some sniff of this kind of thing leaks out.

    And what I wonder and worry about is what kind of evidence COULD they have ? Video evidence ? Physical evidence ? Corroboration ? Corroboration by independent witnesses ?

    If so - If they have quality evidence then so be it. I have no truck with assault or rape of any kind.

    However it all has a bit of a stink of justice abused. And no matter what the outcome ... no matter how they are found innocent, if that is the outcome, these men will NEVER EVER get their lives back. They and their families will be stained forever.


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    #208
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    yet who are those who accused him ? They have been given anonymity despite being found to have lied, while he carries a stain on him for the rest of his life and career.

    This is not justice and in my view is part of the appalling prejudice of the justice system against men.


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    #209
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Piliger wrote: »
    However it all has a bit of a stink of justice abused. And no matter what the outcome ... no matter how they are found innocent, if that is the outcome, these men will NEVER EVER get their lives back. They and their families will be stained forever.

    Is that because of a problem with the law, though, or is it a problem with protocols that police and courts have no control over?

    How can the issue be addressed without having a negative effect on other people? You can't silence the media without people kicking up a storm over freedom of the press etc.

    Claims of assault need to be treated with gravity by police and prosecutors.. they can't just be hushed up because someone may be subjected to idiocy and harassment if found not guilty.

    Mud sticks because there are so many fools ready to throw it.. not because of how the courts, police or prosecutors do their jobs.

    Seriously, how do you go about tackling that problem?


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    #210
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    I never trusted that Keith Harris and Orville


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    #211
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Is that because of a problem with the law, though, or is it a problem with protocols that police and courts have no control over?

    How can the issue be addressed without having a negative effect on other people? You can't silence the media without people kicking up a storm over freedom of the press etc.
    Well for a start, rape accusers get complete anonymity. Why is one rule ok for some people and not others ? It's about time the accused were anonymous in these kinds of cases.
    Claims of assault need to be treated with gravity by police and prosecutors.. they can't just be hushed up because someone may be subjected to idiocy and harassment if found not guilty.
    Of course not. But EVERY other claim of a criminal act required some evidence to be offered right from the start. These cases in question appear to be being pursued with a much much lower bar to reach. And assuming - and of course I am assuming, which may be premature I admit - that there turns out to have been a paucity of actual evidence, then there is a huge risk that juries will find these people guilty just because they are barraged by multiple claims.
    Mud sticks because there are so many fools ready to throw it.. not because of how the courts, police or prosecutors do their jobs.
    This is not mud. This is the justice system validating this mud, if that is what it is.


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